1310 réponses à ce sujet

[sherban1988]

~sigh~
It's ironic that the very measures these big companies use to combat piracy (amongs other stuff) actually encourages it.

If the choice is between buying the game then downloading a crack to play, or buying the game then allowing EA's greedy little fingers to rummage around my computer... it's a no brainer.

For the love of God EA... the tighter you squeeze your fist, the more escape through your fingers. FIGURE IT OUT!

Modifié par sherban1988, 25 août 2011 - 05:35 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

EULAs aren't worth the toilet paper they're printed on.

It's what software like Origin is actually programmed to do and capable of doing that matters.

[SalsaDMA]

commando52 wrote...

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

Bank Account
Movement Profile
Access to VERY personal files
My doctor work paper's
Watch me having fun through webcam
**** IT UP
And so forth

You really think EA are going to steal money from your bank account or spent their time viewing personal stuff in which they don't have interest? Are you serious? 

Are you really willing to trust strangers with confidental information?

Strangers that are under obligation to earn money in any way they can?

Strangers that store said data in a nice juicy target spot for millions of hackers to try and gain access to so THEY can start having fun with your data?



The question is more: are YOU serious?
Cause you might as well walk down a dark alley in the worst part of town while waving an open wallet filled with money bills claiming that nothing untoward could possibly happen by doing so.

[davidshooter]

The agreement as currently written is most likely not even legal in Canada.

In Canada customers have to "consent" to what Ea is trying to do with Origin's data "collection" and it is not legal to refuse to supply or activate a product or service if a customer refuses to consent to the "collection". The law here is pretty clear on this point - consumers have the right to refuse this kind of data collection without having to pass on the product or service all together.

Modifié par davidshooter, 25 août 2011 - 05:44 .

[sherban1988]

commando52 wrote...

EA can't steal your money. If they do such a thing once, they ,,would get sued out of existance". And why should your really personal stuff interest them? The only meaningful post was about hacking EA. But I don't really believe in this.

Edit: I don't get the point. What else could EA do with this information?

It's not about what they COULD do. I don't actualy think EA would try to hurt me or steal from me.

It's more about my info on their servers, and their servers being hacked.

That, and it's a matter of principle. I work, I earn money. I want to buy a game with that money to play and relax. Why is ANITHING i have on my pc ANY of their business? They're basically saying "You can use this if we can see everything in your system". I don't have anything to hide, but it's still not cool.

It's like I'm going to the grocery store to buy some popcorn and they say "You can buy this bag and take it home. BUT, you can only eat it if we get to come into your home and see everything you have in your fridge and cupboards." Now I don't hide crack in my fridge. All i've got there is milk, ham, bread, etc. Still doesn't mean I'm cool with letting strangers just waltz in and checking. What would I say to that? Eff you and your popcorn!

Modifié par sherban1988, 25 août 2011 - 05:52 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

davidshooter wrote...

The agreement as currently written is most likely not even legal in Canada.

In Canada customers have to "consent" to what Ea is trying to do with Origin's data "collection" and it is not legal to refuse to supply or activate a product or service if a customer refuses to consent to the "collection". The law here is pretty clear on this point - consumers have the right to refuse this kind of data collection without having to pass on the product or service all together.

This may also be true of some US states as well. 

[Jaron Oberyn]

I'm assuming you guys have read this? Don't feel like reading 8 pages.

http://www.gameinfor...rd-parties.aspx


-Polite

[Deathwurm]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

The agreement as currently written is most likely not even legal in Canada.

In Canada customers have to "consent" to what Ea is trying to do with Origin's data "collection" and it is not legal to refuse to supply or activate a product or service if a customer refuses to consent to the "collection". The law here is pretty clear on this point - consumers have the right to refuse this kind of data collection without having to pass on the product or service all together.

This may also be true of some US states as well. 

I did try to contact the Attorney General of Pennsylvania's office (they are responsable for consumer affairs issues in Pa. not sure if other States' A.G.'s also have that responsibility or if it's different Agencies in different states) after a conversation with someone that included such classic comments as "Did you say Skyware, sir?" and "I'm not familiar with the term Spyware, sir...what is it?" I was put through to someone's voice mail.

I gave up as we are anxiously awaiting a call that could literally come at any time from my brother in Seattle to hear he's been called to the Hospital because they've finally gotten a Donor Liver for his Transplant. As much as I'd like to pursue it further I simply can't tie up the phone doing so.

I have to say that I'm a little confused by folks who don't seem to think this is any big deal. After what Sony went through earlier this Year with thousands and thousands of PSN users' personal info stolen (including Credit Card numbers and other identifiying info) I would think that this would be a bigger concern to folks. I don't believe EA itself is going to go around trying to access our Bank Accounts or using our Credit Card numbers to pay for the Office "Pizza Day", but it will end up stored on a server somewhere, ripe for the picking.

My other issue is: What are we getting in return for this? So far, it seems to be only the right to use a Product we have lawfully purchased. If they intend to collect this much information I want something of equal value in return...cheaper prices, an assurance that they have upgraded their Servers to guarantee no down-time, something. But there is nothing we gain by allowing this.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Deathwurm wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

The agreement as currently written is most likely not even legal in Canada.

In Canada customers have to "consent" to what Ea is trying to do with Origin's data "collection" and it is not legal to refuse to supply or activate a product or service if a customer refuses to consent to the "collection". The law here is pretty clear on this point - consumers have the right to refuse this kind of data collection without having to pass on the product or service all together.

This may also be true of some US states as well. 

I did try to contact the Attorney General of Pennsylvania's office (they are responsable for consumer affairs issues in Pa. not sure if other States' A.G.'s also have that responsibility or if it's different Agencies in different states) after a conversation with someone that included such classic comments as "Did you say Skyware, sir?" and "I'm not familiar with the term Spyware, sir...what is it?" I was put through to someone's voice mail.

I gave up as we are anxiously awaiting a call that could literally come at any time from my brother in Seattle to hear he's been called to the Hospital because they've finally gotten a Donor Liver for his Transplant. As much as I'd like to pursue it further I simply can't tie up the phone doing so.

I have to say that I'm a little confused by folks who don't seem to think this is any big deal. After what Sony went through earlier this Year with thousands and thousands of PSN users' personal info stolen (including Credit Card numbers and other identifiying info) I would think that this would be a bigger concern to folks. I don't believe EA itself is going to go around trying to access our Bank Accounts or using our Credit Card numbers to pay for the Office "Pizza Day", but it will end up stored on a server somewhere, ripe for the picking.

My other issue is: What are we getting in return for this? So far, it seems to be only the right to use a Product we have lawfully purchased. If they intend to collect this much information I want something of equal value in return...cheaper prices, an assurance that they have upgraded their Servers to guarantee no down-time, something. But there is nothing we gain by allowing this.

Too many people don't seem to understand the fundamental importance of personal privacy.  They stupidly don't care if strangers know lots of personal things about them.  Thus, Facebook's success. 

[cocla]

Its because of stunts like this that I hate EA. After the huge DRM fiasco a few years ago I have boycotted their games... until Bioware became part of EA, and even then I only buy Bioware games. But if they keep this in Origin then I wont be buying ANY EA games.

The EULA for Origin also appears to be in violation of Canadian privacy laws, as the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA) requires companies to "supply you with a product or a service even if you refuse consent for the collection, use or disclosure of your personal information unless that information is essential to the transaction".

The fact that you cant play the games without accepting the horrible policy violates this clause. Any Canadians on the forum with an Origin account should lodge a complaint against EA Origin with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner. Those in other countries should see if this violates any privacy laws there, and if so also lodge a complaint.

If enough complaints are lodged, along with the terrible publicity spreading through the web, the pressure might get EA to turn the game management system into just that, and not a piece of horribly invasive spyware.

Modifié par cocla, 25 août 2011 - 07:08 .

[jojon2se]

Deathwurm wrote...
--- snip ---
My other issue is: What are we getting in return for this? So far, it seems to be only the right to use a Product we have lawfully purchased. If they intend to collect this much information I want something of equal value in return...cheaper prices, an assurance that they have upgraded their Servers to guarantee no down-time, something. But there is nothing we gain by allowing this.

Supposedly it gives them an idea of the general interests of their customers and allows them to tailor future products to suit you -- not unlike the way Google splats sponsored links in your face, depending on your search profile. Whether this is to your advantage is debatable.

So, e.g: if you've got tons of sports news bookmarks, they'd target you with EA Sports ads and offers; and if 50% of users have Blender and GIMP installed, maybe they'd consider improving moddability of titles. I can't off-hand see any way in which the info may be that useful, though - to you OR them.

Hardware and OS/middleware survey is a little bit more obvious: find out just how low a common denominator you can go with, to strike a balance between computing demands and size of audience reached.

[normipaiva]

Anyone with common sense understands this is classical "crossing the line" what comes collecting peoples personal data. By accepting and installing that Spyware-Origin they can pretty much have open access on your computer and what is even worse, you give them permit to share collected data to third party service providers! Just think about all that datamining, and how much more personal data it will contain and remember what happened to Sony.

[Dionkey]

EA tried this fiasco back with 2142 and it failed. If this can get exposed enough, this will surely fail too.

[Reptillius]

Feanor_II wrote...


Look I don't care that they "only" gather information about the games I play, it's my computer and they shouldn't have the right (hell, I would say that they DON'T have the right in many countires) to check what they are playing or whatever.

Look if I buy a DVD Warner or Fox or Paramount.... can't get into my house whenever they want to look what other films I have. And don't came to me with "Hey man, it's only to check your DVD colection and your TV, we are not going to look into your rooms nor your wardrobes" because it's not right.

I think we should be more aware and critical with this intrusive practices

Ok. I'm on page 4 and I've seen this so many times already I just have to speak.

If you feel like this?

I'll tell you exactly what you need to do.

Stop everything your doing. Take your hands off the keyboard. Take a deep breath and just Stop for a moment.

Stopped?  Ok.

Now on to step 2.  Delete every game on your computer that is from say at least 2005.  They are all doing this to you. In all those EULA's you ignored up until this point there are words like this.  Every time you signed up to websites or whatever else that's giving you all those advertisement emails for updates and new products from those companies...

yeah... You should probably delete any program that goes with any of them on your computer too...

Steam?  Sorry boys and girls.  It's gone.  And for all your complaining about origion.  Steam is actually the more vile about it.  It hides these facts rather than puts them out for you to read by Passing the buck to the companies of the games that you play. they all do this whether you like it or not.

~~~~

In Short. We're not seeing anything new. You want to rail against origion because it's a change and we all hate change whether we say it or not. The only thing that is changing is the name on your downloader program if you use their downloaders.

All your accounts for these forums. You already have These accounts. Verifying hard copies of non-online games... That's probably going to be exactly like DAII and others that require you log in with your bioware/EA/Origion accounts from the game before you can access all of your content.

If you don't like doing that now then there really is no help for you I'm afraid because Steam isn't helping you either.  it's still keeping track of you. the Third parties for their games are still keeping track of you.  And they are using all that information.

And all of them actually want to know how much you play/replay/ play+delete their games. And many of them keep track of that too anymore.  Ea is doing you a favor about being upfront about it.  Which is more than what some of your favorite companies are doing.

[Killjoy Cutter]

I don't have Steam and I won't have Steam.

I use firewall software to limit the access that all software running on my computer has to the internet.

[Reptillius]

Something I thought about after posting.

If any of you use Facebook? You should probably be over there screaming rather than over here. Their system is actually far more abusive... Where these systems your screaming about here have been around for a while and tend to have simular disclaimers that have been summarily ignored.

Facebook is actually collecting all the information they can about how you use face book to actually HIDE information from you. Anything and anybody you don't like repeatedly is going to disappear... Games you didn't know that were on there and hadn't played. they are all going to vanish... Information from your friends on your wall that you don't follow regularly? Those are all going to vanish too...

That is a far more viscious system than what is going on here. you really want something like this to shout about and your a facebook user. Facebook probably needs to hear about it.

[Dionkey]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I don't have Steam and I won't have Steam.

I use firewall software to limit the access that all software running on my computer has to the internet.

Steam doesn't install spyware, thankfully. The most they do is take your purchase data for marketing, but they don't scan your computer.

[VaultingFrog]

I use two computers. One is my internet computer with as little personal information as possible on it. My other computer has all my personal data as well as games and that will never be hooked up to the net.

Even so I wouldnt let this kind of thing anywhere near my computer.

[Dionkey]

Reptillius wrote...

Something I thought about after posting.

If any of you use Facebook? You should probably be over there screaming rather than over here. Their system is actually far more abusive... Where these systems your screaming about here have been around for a while and tend to have simular disclaimers that have been summarily ignored.

Facebook is actually collecting all the information they can about how you use face book to actually HIDE information from you. Anything and anybody you don't like repeatedly is going to disappear... Games you didn't know that were on there and hadn't played. they are all going to vanish... Information from your friends on your wall that you don't follow regularly? Those are all going to vanish too...

That is a far more viscious system than what is going on here. you really want something like this to shout about and your a facebook user. Facebook probably needs to hear about it.

What? I have no idea what you're talking about. I know Facebook is in affiliation with the CIA and they use the patriot act to justify this, but what's this about games disappearing? I don't understand what you're talking about in the least.

[Reptillius]

Dionkey wrote...

Reptillius wrote...

Something I thought about after posting.

If any of you use Facebook? You should probably be over there screaming rather than over here. Their system is actually far more abusive... Where these systems your screaming about here have been around for a while and tend to have simular disclaimers that have been summarily ignored.

Facebook is actually collecting all the information they can about how you use face book to actually HIDE information from you. Anything and anybody you don't like repeatedly is going to disappear... Games you didn't know that were on there and hadn't played. they are all going to vanish... Information from your friends on your wall that you don't follow regularly? Those are all going to vanish too...

That is a far more viscious system than what is going on here. you really want something like this to shout about and your a facebook user. Facebook probably needs to hear about it.

What? I have no idea what you're talking about. I know Facebook is in affiliation with the CIA and they use the patriot act to justify this, but what's this about games disappearing? I don't understand what you're talking about in the least.

Their excuse is that facebook is keeping track of you so that what they offer you specifically is only what your interested in.  So if you play farmville and say DA Legends or whatever but you ignore things like cityville or some other game makers facebook game. As you don't click on those and other things on your face book page and stuff. You'll actually see notices from your friends that play those games and those games in your games list and such disappear.  If you don't keep up with certain things on your wall. they may disappear as well.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Reptillius wrote...

Something I thought about after posting.

If any of you use Facebook? You should probably be over there screaming rather than over here. Their system is actually far more abusive... Where these systems your screaming about here have been around for a while and tend to have simular disclaimers that have been summarily ignored.

Facebook is actually collecting all the information they can about how you use face book to actually HIDE information from you. Anything and anybody you don't like repeatedly is going to disappear... Games you didn't know that were on there and hadn't played. they are all going to vanish... Information from your friends on your wall that you don't follow regularly? Those are all going to vanish too...

That is a far more viscious system than what is going on here. you really want something like this to shout about and your a facebook user. Facebook probably needs to hear about it.

The founder of Facebook has said that anyone who values privacy is an out-of-touch idiot. 

I will NEVER have a Facebook acount for any reason, ever. 

[jojon2se]

Dionkey wrote...
Steam doesn't install spyware, thankfully. The most they do is take your purchase data for marketing, but they don't scan your computer.

Well, there is the periodic survey, but they do ask permission, both before commencing combing your system and after showing what data has been collected, but prior to submitting it and there are no consequences to not opting in.

They also have your credit card number, if you are as lazy as I and have opted to have them store it, so that any sneaky hacker can retreive it, should he breach their security.

[Deathwurm]

Reptillius wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...


Look I don't care that they "only" gather information about the games I play, it's my computer and they shouldn't have the right (hell, I would say that they DON'T have the right in many countires) to check what they are playing or whatever.

Look if I buy a DVD Warner or Fox or Paramount.... can't get into my house whenever they want to look what other films I have. And don't came to me with "Hey man, it's only to check your DVD colection and your TV, we are not going to look into your rooms nor your wardrobes" because it's not right.

I think we should be more aware and critical with this intrusive practices

Ok. I'm on page 4 and I've seen this so many times already I just have to speak.

If you feel like this?

I'll tell you exactly what you need to do.

Stop everything your doing. Take your hands off the keyboard. Take a deep breath and just Stop for a moment.

Stopped?  Ok.

Now on to step 2.  Delete every game on your computer that is from say at least 2005.  They are all doing this to you. In all those EULA's you ignored up until this point there are words like this.  Every time you signed up to websites or whatever else that's giving you all those advertisement emails for updates and new products from those companies...

yeah... You should probably delete any program that goes with any of them on your computer too...

Steam?  Sorry boys and girls.  It's gone.  And for all your complaining about origion.  Steam is actually the more vile about it.  It hides these facts rather than puts them out for you to read by Passing the buck to the companies of the games that you play. they all do this whether you like it or not.

~~~~

In Short. We're not seeing anything new. You want to rail against origion because it's a change and we all hate change whether we say it or not. The only thing that is changing is the name on your downloader program if you use their downloaders.

All your accounts for these forums. You already have These accounts. Verifying hard copies of non-online games... That's probably going to be exactly like DAII and others that require you log in with your bioware/EA/Origion accounts from the game before you can access all of your content.

If you don't like doing that now then there really is no help for you I'm afraid because Steam isn't helping you either.  it's still keeping track of you. the Third parties for their games are still keeping track of you.  And they are using all that information.

And all of them actually want to know how much you play/replay/ play+delete their games. And many of them keep track of that too anymore.  Ea is doing you a favor about being upfront about it.  Which is more than what some of your favorite companies are doing.

Ok...now please do something for me...read the few articles that have been published on gaming news sites already and come back...

Done? Cool. Did you notice how they talk about the EULA reserving the right to access ALL the info on your Hard-Drive...that's new. I don't have a problem with them accessing info on Hardware configurations or how I'm playing their Game or what DLC's or Mods I have, but what is the reason for reserving the right to scan your entire Hard-Drive for anything that might be there? How does info that has nothing to do with Games help them to produce better Games?

And again, did you notice their idea of the "opt out?" the part where it say if you do not agree with the Terms do not download the Origin service? I hav eno intention of buying on-line...I indended to purchase the hard-copy from a Store. So if they are going to use this as a form of DRM, there is no opt out.

Modifié par Deathwurm, 25 août 2011 - 07:52 .

[Dionkey]

Reptillius wrote...
Their excuse is that facebook is keeping track of you so that what they offer you specifically is only what your interested in.  So if you play farmville and say DA Legends or whatever but you ignore things like cityville or some other game makers facebook game. As you don't click on those and other things on your face book page and stuff. You'll actually see notices from your friends that play those games and those games in your games list and such disappear.  If you don't keep up with certain things on your wall. they may disappear as well.

Ah, selective marketing, I understand now. Thanks for explaining, I was just a little confused.

[charmingcharlie]

It seems EA might be listening because the EULA has now been changed to :-

EA EULA states ........ 2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly. Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it ever use spyware or install spyware on users’ machines. We and agents acting on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to enforce EA’s legal rights.

In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects nonpersonally identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as communicating with you. The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.

As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise enhancing your user experience. This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance with EA’s Privacy Policy located at www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts or is inconsistent with the terms of EA’s Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall control.

http://eacom.s3.amaz...gin_8.24.11.pdf

I bolded the part they appear to have changed, still not good enough in my books.  I do not buy games so I can "improve" EA's services, there should be an opt option without losing the ability to play EA games.

Modifié par charmingcharlie, 25 août 2011 - 07:55 .