951 réponses à ce sujet

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Actually, it's having it's entirely intended effect: making this all irreversably silly.

At least when Saphra and Zulu troll they put a little bit of effort into it.

[Dean_the_Young]

yfullman wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Davie McG wrote...

2. Those experiments likely got them indoctrinated (hence them being bad guys in ME3).

Maybe, maybe not. They are still experiments htat need to be carried out.

Davie McG wrote...

4. Patriotism? He's trying to kill Humanities greatest Hero, if anything his actions are traitorous.

A little humility would be welcome.

Somebody opposing Shepard does not make them evil or unlikable or unsympathetic.

The Reapers didn't leave their toys like Object Rho behind because they were careless.  It was a part of their plan to bring more people under indoctrination before they even arrive.

No it wasn't: their plan was the Citadel before Rho was even discovered, and they would have arrived without notice had Kenson not discovered it. Their plan did not count on or depend on Rho being discovered and enabling the delay of the Arrival.

Using or studying any form of their tech is walking right into their hands.  Sovereign and Vigil made it clear that it is because our technology is based on theirs that they win every time.

No it isn't, and no they didn't. Every victory over the Reapers to date has resulted from the unintended application of Reaper-derived technologies: the Conduit, the Reaper IFF to reach the Collectors, Object Rho to delay the arrival, and all the mass-effect ships and guns we'll fight them with. 

Literally every single time someone has dabbled in Reaper technology you end up in a husks rail shooter.

Thanix/Edi/Collector particle beam/seeker swarms...

  The only way we can win against the Reapers is to find other ways that don't involve injecting Reaper nanobots into people.  Paul Grayson was just the latest example in a long line of Cerberus screw ups.

In so much that 'attacked by others' is a screw up.

[Dean_the_Young]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Actually, it's having it's entirely intended effect: making this all irreversably silly.

At least when Saphra and Zulu troll they put a little bit of effort into it.

Clearly they take themselves more seriously than me. And your voyeur exploits.

[Seboist]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

aiDvEoN wrote...

Teltin, Akuze,and who knows what else haven't destroyed lives?

This is a sentance fragment that makes no sense.

And Cerberus were introduced to us in the first game as a human supremacist group.

Not really. They were introduced to us in the first game as a rogue special ops group, and their targets were what they believed to be non-sentient alien creatures and humans.

Cerberus has never actually carried the mantal of a racist organization: there's only been on racist Cerberus character to date (Kai Leng), while the rest have been xenonationalists.

Wasn't Pel (from Ascension) one too?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Actually, it's having it's entirely intended effect: making this all irreversably silly.

At least when Saphra and Zulu troll they put a little bit of effort into it.

Clearly they take themselves more seriously than me. And your voyeur exploits.

You should probably move on to a new type of troll attack.
Because this one's getting a bit stale.

Mind you it was funny but now it's just like pro-Cerberus people annoying and repetitious.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Seboist wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

aiDvEoN wrote...

Teltin, Akuze,and who knows what else haven't destroyed lives?

This is a sentance fragment that makes no sense.

And Cerberus were introduced to us in the first game as a human supremacist group.

Not really. They were introduced to us in the first game as a rogue special ops group, and their targets were what they believed to be non-sentient alien creatures and humans.

Cerberus has never actually carried the mantal of a racist organization: there's only been on racist Cerberus character to date (Kai Leng), while the rest have been xenonationalists.

Wasn't Pel (from Ascension) one too?

I think he fit a more "Broadly uncomfortable with aliens" as opposed to Leng's "MAIM KILL BURN MAIM KILL BURN!!!  BLOOD FOR TIM!!!!!" type of hate.

[The Elder King]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh good grief.

Both the paragons and renegade choices are realistic.

Stop trying to tear the other down to make your choices look more valid. They're all equally valid. Even if some are dumber than others.

This is the most reasonable post I've seen in this thread. Sadly, it'll be ignored.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

hhh89 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh good grief.

Both the paragons and renegade choices are realistic.

Stop trying to tear the other down to make your choices look more valid. They're all equally valid. Even if some are dumber than others.

This is the most reasonable post I've seen in this thread. Sadly, it'll be ignored.

Such is life in the zone On BSN.

[Dean_the_Young]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Actually, it's having it's entirely intended effect: making this all irreversably silly.

At least when Saphra and Zulu troll they put a little bit of effort into it.

Clearly they take themselves more seriously than me. And your voyeur exploits.

You should probably move on to a new type of troll attack.
Because this one's getting a bit stale.

Mind you it was funny but now it's just like pro-Cerberus people annoying and repetitious.

I have a clever double gambit going on.

If you stay in this thread to spite me to prove I have no effect on you, I have an effect on you and I win.

If you leave, I also win simply because I say so.

Your move... voyeur.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Actually, it's having it's entirely intended effect: making this all irreversably silly.

At least when Saphra and Zulu troll they put a little bit of effort into it.

Clearly they take themselves more seriously than me. And your voyeur exploits.

You should probably move on to a new type of troll attack.
Because this one's getting a bit stale.

Mind you it was funny but now it's just like pro-Cerberus people annoying and repetitious.

I have a clever double gambit going on.

If you stay in this thread to spite me to prove I have no effect on you, I have an effect on you and I win.

If you leave, I also win simply because I say so.

Your move... voyeur.

Actually I'm rather enjoying myself.

Though you did sum up Trollish strategy quite nicely. So a tip-o-the hat to you for that.

[Dean_the_Young]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

aiDvEoN wrote...

Teltin, Akuze,and who knows what else haven't destroyed lives?

This is a sentance fragment that makes no sense.

And Cerberus were introduced to us in the first game as a human supremacist group.

Not really. They were introduced to us in the first game as a rogue special ops group, and their targets were what they believed to be non-sentient alien creatures and humans.

Cerberus has never actually carried the mantal of a racist organization: there's only been on racist Cerberus character to date (Kai Leng), while the rest have been xenonationalists.

Wasn't Pel (from Ascension) one too?

I think he fit a more "Broadly uncomfortable with aliens" as opposed to Leng's "MAIM KILL BURN MAIM KILL BURN!!!  BLOOD FOR TIM!!!!!" type of hate.

Since Kai Leng didn't have that either, and was a 'distinctly uncomfortable and prefers to avoid them' sort...

[Dean_the_Young]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Actually, it's having it's entirely intended effect: making this all irreversably silly.

At least when Saphra and Zulu troll they put a little bit of effort into it.

Clearly they take themselves more seriously than me. And your voyeur exploits.

You should probably move on to a new type of troll attack.
Because this one's getting a bit stale.

Mind you it was funny but now it's just like pro-Cerberus people annoying and repetitious.

I have a clever double gambit going on.

If you stay in this thread to spite me to prove I have no effect on you, I have an effect on you and I win.

If you leave, I also win simply because I say so.

Your move... voyeur.

Actually I'm rather enjoying myself.

Though you did sum up Trollish strategy quite nicely. So a tip-o-the hat to you for that.

See? My plan of changing the topic of the conversation to something silly and enjoyable is working.

Who needs a flame war when you can have inane banter to put out the flames?

[The Elder King]

Saphra Deden wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

This is the most reasonable post I've seen in this thread. Sadly, it'll be ignored.

How is that reasonable? Refusing to take a side doesn't make one reasonable. In fact he's being rather absolute, not moderate.

He said that every choices in ME-ME2 are reasonable, not that he doesn't prefer some choices. I prefer some choices that are present in ME and ME2, but I think that every choice has a logic, and I played most of them in different playtroughs.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Actually, it's having it's entirely intended effect: making this all irreversably silly.

At least when Saphra and Zulu troll they put a little bit of effort into it.

Clearly they take themselves more seriously than me. And your voyeur exploits.

You should probably move on to a new type of troll attack.
Because this one's getting a bit stale.

Mind you it was funny but now it's just like pro-Cerberus people annoying and repetitious.

I have a clever double gambit going on.

If you stay in this thread to spite me to prove I have no effect on you, I have an effect on you and I win.

If you leave, I also win simply because I say so.

Your move... voyeur.

Actually I'm rather enjoying myself.

Though you did sum up Trollish strategy quite nicely. So a tip-o-the hat to you for that.

See? My plan of changing the topic of the conversation to something silly and enjoyable is working.

Who needs a flame war when you can have inane banter to put out the flames?

A flame war would be more fun if someone like Zulu or the sadly departed King Zeel were here.
They threw around nice and heavy insults.

[Dean_the_Young]

It's incredibly nice. It's good for the Xen as well. Less pointless insults and anger.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh good grief.

Both the paragons and renegade choices are realistic.

Stop trying to tear the other down to make your choices look more valid. They're all equally valid. Even if some are dumber than others.

Problem is that words like dumb, valid, right are thrown around wihout any actual context.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

It would be nice to have a reasonable Paragon vs Renegade discussion,unfortunately that is only possible with people like SandTrout and marshalleck,once the fanatics come in, all decency and reason get thrown out the window,steamrolled,set on fire,rolled in shards of glass,thrown into a vat of acid,and then nuked...

[Davie McG]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh good grief.

Both the paragons and renegade choices are realistic.

Stop trying to tear the other down to make your choices look more valid. They're all equally valid. Even if some are dumber than others.

Problem is that words like dumb, valid, right are thrown around wihout any actual context.

True. There are reasons and motivations for both. In practice mines are mostly paragon, with some neutral and renegade when I think those are the reactions that make the most sense to my Shepard. 

Everyone has different opinions on which decisions make the most sense. The thing is, a decision that seems more appropriate to one person may not seem very sensible to someone else. Then the problem arises when people think that their opinion is superior to that of an others. This eventually turns debate into childish bickering because it becomes a contest of who is the most stubborn in their views. Which is why we can never have a reasonable debate about religion etc. without it all going to hell.

However I think the name of the topic gives some indication as to why this thread became a series of pointless arguments about whether paragon or renegade is superior.

Modifié par Davie McG, 24 août 2011 - 05:41 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Thing is peopel have different things in mind when they say "valid" and "right".
Valid or right - in what sense? Right as in the right choice based on the outcome? Right as in the smartest choice based on avialalbe data? Right as in morally right?


IMHO, the smartest choices in ME2 are those that increase your chances agaisnt the reapers. ANYTHING is justafiable at this point.
So, saving the Rachnii queen, getting the Geth on your side, getting the genophage cure, keeping the collector Base - everything is fair game, given that extinction is just around the corner.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I agree with everything you listed Lotion except for the Base. My reason isn't if the Base is too dangerous to use but rather who is using it. Cerberus has a long long history of there cells either going 'rogue', everyone dying, or worst their objectives getting out of control and threatening others. Most notably Overlord which almost destroyed the galaxy. I don't know about you but when an orginization almost destroys the galaxy I'm not about to then give them advanced/dangerous technology without having any kind of oversight into what they're doing with it.

It's better to get rid of it than give it to an orginization that excels at failure.

[Davie McG]

I destroyed the base (in my canon play through this is. I've got Shepards of all varieties) . I knew once my Shepard went back to the Alliance that Cerberus would try to use the technology against me.

But a Shepard who supports Cerberus may want to keep the base to make Cerberus stronger, which would make sense if they consider themselves a part of Cerberus.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

I agree with everything you listed Lotion except for the Base. My reason isn't if the Base is too dangerous to use but rather who is using it. Cerberus has a long long history of there cells either going 'rogue', everyone dying, or worst their objectives getting out of control and threatening others. Most notably Overlord which almost destroyed the galaxy. I don't know about you but when an orginization almost destroys the galaxy I'm not about to then give them advanced/dangerous technology without having any kind of oversight into what they're doing with it.

It's better to get rid of it than give it to an orginization that excels at failure.

Cerberus doesn't excell at faliure, we've been over that already.

And it's in Cerberus own interest to fight agaisnt the repaers and for humanity - something that Cerberus has been doing consistently. There's absolutely NO reason to think Cerberus would turn agasint humanity.
And Overlord didn't destroy the galaxy - all that "technologcla apocalypse" is overblown. Not to mention that repaers are gonan come and f**** you up anyway. ANY risk is worth taking.

I said this before, but it's worth repeating:
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodzillaThreshold

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 24 août 2011 - 06:29 .

[Ryzaki]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh good grief.

Both the paragons and renegade choices are realistic.

Stop trying to tear the other down to make your choices look more valid. They're all equally valid. Even if some are dumber than others.

Problem is that words like dumb, valid, right are thrown around wihout any actual context.

 

Then I retract th dumb. All the choices no matter how how paragon or renegade they're said to be are equally valid because they can all be picked. Only choices that aren't to me are those you cna't make. (Like for some mindboggling reason pretending to let Balak go then blowing him up the second he takes off.) <_<