951 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheZyzyva wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It is logical. Anything taht exists can be stolen or destroyed as long as it exists. The game never tells you what Shep plans to do in the future. That is for you to decide.

Blowing the base up later or taking it from Cerberus is a viable future options, speaking from a in-character point of view.

No, that's for Bioware to decide. Yes, it might be a possibility, but we don't know. I would just like that clarification to be made. I have no problems with your opinions being different from mine, my problem comes from you passing off those opinions as straight fact or as the only logic.

Again, you don't know that you WON'T have that possibility in ME3.
Even if you don't, it changes nothing from Sheppards perspective.

You're metagaming here, thinking "Bioware won't give us that options". Sheppard doesn't know who "Bioware" is. Sheppard doesn't know anything outside of the game itself.
If you are roleplaying Sheppard, then you do so from his perspective. And any and all actions that should logicly be possible remain valid.
Right up untill the decision to hand the base over, the option to capture the base and give it to the Alliance existed (at least in yours/sheps head). Of course, Bio sunk that possiblitiy, but it did logicly exist up untill that point.

Again, in universe, blowing up the base makes no sense whatsoever. If you metagame, then it does make sense.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Based on Cerberus needing Shepard needing to clean up their messes most of ME2,it may be illogical to you but that doesn't mean it is illogical, I know you like to think your logic is infallible,but to many people the risk of having to clean up after Cerberus AGAIN,makes it a no-brainer.

Cleaing after Cerberus is a insignificant risk and effort, compared to fighting off the reapers.

EXACTLY,so why even bother?

Isn't it obvious?
Because the payoff could be enormeous.

If you're willing to clean up after the geth and rachnii  if they turn against you (and you saved them), then you shold be willing to clean up after Cerberus if the base backfires.

[KotorEffect3]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheZyzyva wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It is logical. Anything taht exists can be stolen or destroyed as long as it exists. The game never tells you what Shep plans to do in the future. That is for you to decide.

Blowing the base up later or taking it from Cerberus is a viable future options, speaking from a in-character point of view.

No, that's for Bioware to decide. Yes, it might be a possibility, but we don't know. I would just like that clarification to be made. I have no problems with your opinions being different from mine, my problem comes from you passing off those opinions as straight fact or as the only logic.

Again, you don't know that you WON'T have that possibility in ME3.
Even if you don't, it changes nothing from Sheppards perspective.

You're metagaming here, thinking "Bioware won't give us that options". Sheppard doesn't know who "Bioware" is. Sheppard doesn't know anything outside of the game itself.
If you are roleplaying Sheppard, then you do so from his perspective. And any and all actions that should logicly be possible remain valid.
Right up untill the decision to hand the base over, the option to capture the base and give it to the Alliance existed (at least in yours/sheps head). Of course, Bio sunk that possiblitiy, but it did logicly exist up untill that point.

Again, in universe, blowing up the base makes no sense whatsoever. If you metagame, then it does make sense.

Yes blowing up the base did make sense in game.  Cerberus wanted the base and Shepard knows all about cerberus and their ruthless agenda.  Besides it set alarm bells off in my head when TIM said he would use the base against the reapers and beyond.  Gee I wonder what "beyond" could have meant.  Just because you don't want to see it doesn't mean there aren't reasons to blow the base to hell.

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 25 août 2011 - 07:01 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Not if gaining that intel or technology ends up weakening our other allies or turning them against us both of which are very real and very damning reasons not to give it to them.

Why would it weaken our allies or turn them against us?

What alternative is there anyway? If saving the base doesn't help you then not saving the base sure as hell won't help you either.

Either the base is necessary or it isin't, in which case keeping it doesn't change much.

If you keep the base you have the option of taking it from Cerberus if you are so inclined.

If studying the base it causes some sort of indoctrination effect on our allies that would weaken them, if it turns Cerberus indoctrinated (Which seems possible) than it will weaken our allies because they have to fight them now too.

The same holds true for the Geth and Racnii. Everything you do to increase the power of the galactic forces can backfire.
Yet if you don't so it, chances of victory are paracticly zero.


If studying hte base causes some sort of indoctrination - blow the base up!
It might weaken you, but you are already too weak to put up a credible resistance anyway.

Another fact we failed to talk about before is once the Reapers arrive how hard do you think it will be for them to take the base back? It would only be a matter of minutes before they got into the Relay and removed the Cerberus agents guarding it. There we have another negative for keeping the base, in keeping it the Reaper are garenteed to get it back and in getting it back they can use it. If we destroyed it than at the very least they don't have that resource to use against us and in that regard destroying it is garenteed to be at least slightly usefull because now the Reapers only have themselves.

Reaper getting the base back is insignificant.

First of all, they can't reach it in minutes. The base is at the galactic core and the reaper are arriving from the outer edge. It would take them days, weeks to get to it. More than enough time for you t oblow it up a dozen times.

Secondly, blowing the base is not a problem at any point. Ever heard of a remote detonator? Anyone at the base can easily make sure it doesn't fall into reaper hands.

Third, the base is inconsequential to the reaper war effort on the reaper side. It's way out of the way from the area of the civilized races, and it's a completely static resource. If the reapers capture it, then they now have a static resource they have to defend. Meaning they will have to leave a few reapers tehre. Meaning there's a few reapers less to directly attack you.

Finally where are you getting the idea that we can take the base back from Cerberus? Are we making things up?

What's stopping Sheppard from doing it? He has the IFF and the knowledge. He can easily come back with a whole alliance fleet. I'ts a vaible possiblitiy, evne if one that Bioware probably won't let you explore, but in-character it reamins a possiblity still.

[Lotion Soronarr]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Again, you don't know that you WON'T have that possibility in ME3.
Even if you don't, it changes nothing from Sheppards perspective.

You're metagaming here, thinking "Bioware won't give us that options". Sheppard doesn't know who "Bioware" is. Sheppard doesn't know anything outside of the game itself.
If you are roleplaying Sheppard, then you do so from his perspective. And any and all actions that should logicly be possible remain valid.
Right up untill the decision to hand the base over, the option to capture the base and give it to the Alliance existed (at least in yours/sheps head). Of course, Bio sunk that possiblitiy, but it did logicly exist up untill that point.

Again, in universe, blowing up the base makes no sense whatsoever. If you metagame, then it does make sense.

Yes blowing up the base did make sense in game.  Cerberus wanted the base and Shepard knows all about cerberus and their ruthless agenda.  Besides it set alarm bells off in my head when TIM said he would use the base against the reapers and beyond.  Gee I wonder what "beyond" could have meant.  Just because you don't want to see it doesn't mean there aren't reasons to blow the base to hell.

There are reasons, but they are all stupid reasons.

A reaper invasion is on the doorstep and you don't want to study their tech, find their weakneses. That decision is compltely anti-survival.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Thompson family wrote...

1.Lotion Soronnar’s challenge: “Point me at something Cerberus did that didn't end up helping humanity.”

Overlord didn’t help humanity. It was neutral and may, arguably, go on to benefit humanity someday — since Shep was able to stop it in time to prevent a computer infestation apocalypse.

So advancements in VI and computing technolgoy, better understanding of Geth and the possiblity to control them is NOT something that could benefit humanity greatly?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

You are saying Shep can go pay the council a visit whenever he likes to tell him he commited treason and gave the base to Cerberus....wasn't an option in the game.

No, but it is an option in-universe.

That's not meta-gaming.

Gah, I love your double-standards.

You love to throw around words like meta-gaming and you have just proven to not even know what it means.

No, you have no idea what it means H_T.
And you just prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I guess you do not even understand what "in character" means....

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheZyzyva wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

No, but it is an option in-universe.

That's not meta-gaming.

Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.

Read the bold. Sorry Saphra, it pains me to tell you this, but you are in fact wrong in this case. Making a hypothetical decision that is not presented in the game does indeed fall under the category of meta-gaming. 

Actually she's not. The "limits of the enviroment" does not refer to the UI.
Your'e hte one who doesn't understand the defeinition of meta-gaming.

Meta-gaming means using information that's not availalbe and SHOULDN'T be avilalbe to the character you're roleplying.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


What's stopping Sheppard from doing it? He has the IFF and the knowledge. He can easily come back with a whole alliance fleet.

Please refrain from meta-gaming.

I'll give you Shep saying he'll kick TIMs ass if he screws up,but saying he can just summon up an alliance fleet is not something you can say.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 25 août 2011 - 07:20 .

[SandTrout]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


What's stopping Sheppard from doing it? He has the IFF and the knowledge. He can easily come back with a whole alliance fleet.

Please refrain from meta-gaming.

That's not metagaming. He is not using out of character information. He is considering a posibility that could rationally be considered within context.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
A reaper invasion is on the doorstep and you don't want to study their tech, find their weakneses. That decision is compltely anti-survival.

The real kicker is the fact that Indoctrination is what the Reapers use... it's one of their primary weapons.  To avoid a confrontation with Indoctrination is virtually impossible.

[Lotion Soronarr]

J-Sheridan wrote...

Smart Shepard
TIM: Horizon is under attack, go check it out
Shepard: Notify the Alliance
TIM: Nah, I wont
Shepard: Joker, Send a transmission to the Alliance telling them about the attack on Horizon.
TIM:

Game Shepard
TIM: Horizon is under attack, check it out

Shepard: Notify the Alliance

TIM: Nah, I wont

Shepard: Curse you villian for not contacting the Alliance. I am totally forced to go along with this decision. Its not like we have our own communication system to notify themselves...

I don't think any alliance ship was close enough to respond in time.

Smart Shepard
Council: Your totally working for Cerberus and are evil...
Shepard: Nope, heres all the recordings of data, mission reports and video footage of my dealings
Apparantly, TIM was idiotic enough to leave tons of files on the ship so even a nutcase like Jack could rake through them.
Council: Working on the inside as a double agent. Well we can just drop these charges of Treason.
Shepard: Excellent, I can keep feeding you this data after every mission
Anderson: We have an investigation going on into Cerberus, thanks for all this info its gonna help a bunch. We will replace your crew with Alliance personnel immediately and put you back under military command to stop the Collectors.
TIM: Damnit

Game Shepard
Council: Your totally working for Ceberus and are evil
Shepard: Totally, I am a good guy seriously... its not how it looks... I deserve better than this even though I have provided no proof.
Council: Yeah, we dont believe you but we will make you a Spectre again. Just go play over there and dont talk to us again.
Anderson: Hey, we have an investigation into Ceberus... you cant trust them but go back to it.
Shepard: I should go and work with Ceberus...

Except the Council doesn't do anything to stop the collectors.
And except Shep doesn't really have any data you're speaking off.

Smart Shepard
TIM: The Collector ship has been found... it attacked a Turian patrol
Shepard: Sure, Joker contact the Alliance and Council.
Alliance / Council: Whats going on ?
Shepard: Got the folks responsible for attacking human colonies and they attacked a Turian patrol
Turian: We dont have patrols out there... it's a Trap !
Shepard: Thanks for the heads up... Hackett... got an observer I can borrow... like Ashley / Kaiden to confirm my story ?
TIM: Damn it Shepard stop doing this !

Game Shepard
Shepard: I totally believe you and will go head first to find the Collectors

There was a turian patrol there bub....

Smart Shepard
TIM: We found a dead Reaper. Its got an IFF you can use to go to the Reaper base. Here is the location, you c...
Shepard: Joker, Council and Alliance please
A / C - Jesus, what now Shepard...
Shepard - Found a Reaper and it allows access to a Collector base. Do you want me to say 'I told you so now or shall I save that for when I bring Amy Wong here with a film crew ?
A / C - Son of a  !!!
TIM:

Game Shepard
TIM: We found a dead Reaper. Its got an IFF you can use to go to the Reaper base. Here is the location, you c...
Shepard: Yes Sir, I totally hate your guts but am following your instructions without fail even when you have screwed me twice already.

I'll give you this one. Altough getting hte IFF is a priority, Shep can easily tell the Alliance about the reaper loaction later. It won't be going anywhere...at at least, it wasn't supposed to

Smart Shepard
TIM: Collector Base... keep it
Shepard: Ok...
TIM:
Shepard: Contact the Council and Alliance... we have a Collector base and the means to get to it along with proof the Reapers exist. Tell them Cerberus is trying to capture it for terrorist activities so probably best to keep it under military control and shoot any Cerb that comes through
TIM: FU Shepard !!!
Shepard: Hows it feel to be screwed back TIMmy and when we meet in person I have an inferno round with your name on it

Game Shepard
TIM: Collector Base... keep it
Shepard: Ok
TIM:
Shepard: I'm just gonna fly the Normandy into the sunset leaving behind a massive base that noone can reach except through one relay and only Cerberus knows how...

Smart Shepard gives the base to Cerberus...because they get results.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
A reaper invasion is on the doorstep and you don't want to study their tech, find their weakneses. That decision is compltely anti-survival.

The real kicker is the fact that Indoctrination is what the Reapers use... it's one of their primary weapons.  To avoid a confrontation with Indoctrination is virtually impossible.

Indeed. One the reapers come, thousands of indoctriantion devices will be workign at once. You're gonna be fighitng your own on every planet. You're gonna have reaper agents everywhere, messsing up your plans and sabotaging your efforts.
Researching indoctrination to find some way to counter it is probably THE mst important thing.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


What's stopping Sheppard from doing it? He has the IFF and the knowledge. He can easily come back with a whole alliance fleet.

Please refrain from meta-gaming.

I'll give you Shep saying he'll kick TIMs ass if he screws up,but saying he can just summon up an alliance fleet is not something you can say.

Don't use the words meta-game when you don't know what it means.

Hackett and Anderson believe Shep. He finally has evidence (base scans, EDI). He has the IFF. He has everything he needs to convince the SA to send a few ships with him to check out the base.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

I don't recall in-game where Hackett or Anderson say they will volunteer a fleet to go deal with Shepard's lapse of judgement.
So if you could please provide a link to where it was said.

The only thing Shepard can prove is that the collectors have a base,and they made a giant robot,both of which happen to be out in the Terminus systems

The council will know this,and probably use that as an explanation to where the geth got Sovereign, and even if it is an all human council,they wouldn't want to start a war.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 25 août 2011 - 07:51 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheZyzyva wrote...

As for your assertion that logic beats emotion, I don't even know where to begin. We are human. We possess the capabilties for both emotion and logic, neither is inherently better than the other. If you are operating on pure logic alone, you would be no better than a machine, something you have a problem with if I remember your opinions on the Geth right. And that's disregarding the fact that outside of mathematics, no logic is absolute. Different conclusions can be reached by different people based on the same information. That is perfectly acceptable as we are all different people with different ideas and minds. So no, you did not "win the argument" as I am yet to be dissuaded from my prior stance.

No. Important decisiosn that can affect the whoel galaxy should NOT be made o na whim, but on carefull consideration. Logic >>>>> Emotion, in this case.

[TheZyzyva]

Lotion, it's not like metagaming only has one definition. Re-read what I posted. Waiting... Ok, did you see the part that says "the game universe outside of the game itself"? Maybe you missed it before, but what that means is that considering options that aren't presented in the game, even if they're a possible choice in that universe, is metagaming. Frankly, I don't give a **** about whether or not we're metagaming, it doesn't matter. I just want people to get their facts straight so we can debate like reasonable human beings. I know that's asking a lot here on the internet, but come on, even Saphra was using a full, articulate argument.
That said, I'm outta this thread. If I want to argue with "nuh uhs" and "uh huhs" I'll go find some 8 years olds to do that with. Now I bid you adieu.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheZyzyva wrote...

Lotion, it's not like metagaming only has one definition. Re-read what I posted. Waiting... Ok, did you see the part that says "the game universe outside of the game itself"? Maybe you missed it before, but what that means is that considering options that aren't presented in the game, even if they're a possible choice in that universe, is metagaming. Frankly, I don't give a **** about whether or not we're metagaming, it doesn't matter. I just want people to get their facts straight so we can debate like reasonable human beings. I know that's asking a lot here on the internet, but come on, even Saphra was using a full, articulate argument.
That said, I'm outta this thread. If I want to argue with "nuh uhs" and "uh huhs" I'll go find some 8 years olds to do that with. Now I bid you adieu.

No man, that's not what it means.
Meta-gaming is pretty well understood as a term, altough whoever wrote that defintion should have clarified that part better ( I wonder where you got that definition from anyway?)

The game universe outside the game itself refers to aditional facts about the universe that you don't get from the game. For example, the Ancession novel. That's universe knowledge outside the game tiself.

Of course, people are free to re-interpret or mis-interpret everything. Lord knows they do it constantly.

You know what roleplaying is and being in-character? That means thinking like the characters. Meta-gaming is opposite of that. Possible choices a character can reasonably make ARE roleplaying. So how can roleplaying be meta-gaming at the same time?

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 25 août 2011 - 10:25 .

[J-Sheridan]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

J-Sheridan wrote...

Smart Shepard
TIM: Horizon is under attack, go check it out
Shepard: Notify the Alliance
TIM: Nah, I wont
Shepard: Joker, Send a transmission to the Alliance telling them about the attack on Horizon.
TIM:

Game Shepard
TIM: Horizon is under attack, check it out

Shepard: Notify the Alliance

TIM: Nah, I wont

Shepard: Curse you villian for not contacting the Alliance. I am totally forced to go along with this decision. Its not like we have our own communication system to notify themselves...

I don't think any alliance ship was close enough to respond in time.

Irrelevant, Overlord DLC Shepard tells Joker to contact a goddamn Academy and we have had communications being sent across the galaxy.
A ship may not be in the area but simply the act of sending a message informing the Alliance whats going on makes it appear you at least made the effort to inform them and arent playing for an enemy team.

Incidentally, with a Ashley or Kaiden there it seems a bit bizzare they wouldnt have a ship in the area to send backup if they were expecting an attack from Cerberus.
What... a single Alliance soldier was meant to hold of an attack by Cerberus using super guns that didnt work ?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Smart Shepard
Council: Your totally working for Cerberus and are evil...
Shepard: Nope, heres all the recordings of data, mission reports and video footage of my dealings
Apparantly, TIM was idiotic enough to leave tons of files on the ship so even a nutcase like Jack could rake through them.
Council: Working on the inside as a double agent. Well we can just drop these charges of Treason.
Shepard: Excellent, I can keep feeding you this data after every mission
Anderson: We have an investigation going on into Cerberus, thanks for all this info its gonna help a bunch. We will replace your crew with Alliance personnel immediately and put you back under military command to stop the Collectors.
TIM: Damnit

Game Shepard
Council: Your totally working for Ceberus and are evil
Shepard: Totally, I am a good guy seriously... its not how it looks... I deserve better than this even though I have provided no proof.
Council: Yeah, we dont believe you but we will make you a Spectre again. Just go play over there and dont talk to us again.
Anderson: Hey, we have an investigation into Ceberus... you cant trust them but go back to it.
Shepard: I should go and work with Ceberus...

Except the Council doesn't do anything to stop the collectors.
And except Shep doesn't really have any data you're speaking off.

Lies... What do you think Jack was going through ?
What did Shepard collect from the captured and tortured Cerberus operative ?
EDI obviously has access to this information when her blocks are broken so the information is there and she even told him it was.
Zaeed has access to the cams in the ship, Omni Tools can be used to record data... feeding the Alliance or Council information about what your doing to prove playing nice AND provide proof of what your doing is massively logical.

The Council was unable to commit forces to stopping the Collectors cause politics prevents it. That dosent change the fact they do not trust you and think your going crazy. Providing tangible evidence the Collectors are real, you are fighting them and whats going on might get them back on your side.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Smart Shepard
TIM: The Collector ship has been found... it attacked a Turian patrol
Shepard: Sure, Joker contact the Alliance and Council.
Alliance / Council: Whats going on ?
Shepard: Got the folks responsible for attacking human colonies and they attacked a Turian patrol
Turian: We dont have patrols out there... it's a Trap !
Shepard: Thanks for the heads up... Hackett... got an observer I can borrow... like Ashley / Kaiden to confirm my story ?
TIM: Damn it Shepard stop doing this !

Game Shepard
Shepard: I totally believe you and will go head first to find the Collectors

There was a turian patrol there bub....

Congratulations, you just won the prize for being an idiot for demonstrating you dont even know the story.

The signal was a trap that was an obvious fake. EDI tells you this and TIM admits it.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Smart Shepard
TIM: We found a dead Reaper. Its got an IFF you can use to go to the Reaper base. Here is the location, you c...
Shepard: Joker, Council and Alliance please
A / C - Jesus, what now Shepard...
Shepard - Found a Reaper and it allows access to a Collector base. Do you want me to say 'I told you so now or shall I save that for when I bring Amy Wong here with a film crew ?
A / C - Son of a  !!!
TIM:

Game Shepard
TIM: We found a dead Reaper. Its got an IFF you can use to go to the Reaper base. Here is the location, you c...
Shepard: Yes Sir, I totally hate your guts but am following your instructions without fail even when you have screwed me twice already.

I'll give you this one. Altough getting hte IFF is a priority, Shep can easily tell the Alliance about the reaper loaction later. It won't be going anywhere...at at least, it wasn't supposed to

And again.... the Reaper was contrived to be written out of the story which changes nothing.
There was no mandated time limit to get to the Reaper and given past experience with their technology it is extremely dumb to fly to one without informing someone RELIABLE.
TIM has already lied to you before and demonstrated an extremely poor behaviour to trust him.

Yeah, I'll place my call with the Alliance and call up Amy Wong.
Have her film the goddamn ship and watch the Council 'Dismiss' it.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Smart Shepard
TIM: Collector Base... keep it
Shepard: Ok...
TIM:
Shepard: Contact the Council and Alliance... we have a Collector base and the means to get to it along with proof the Reapers exist. Tell them Cerberus is trying to capture it for terrorist activities so probably best to keep it under military control and shoot any Cerb that comes through
TIM: FU Shepard !!!
Shepard: Hows it feel to be screwed back TIMmy and when we meet in person I have an inferno round with your name on it

Game Shepard
TIM: Collector Base... keep it
Shepard: Ok
TIM:
Shepard: I'm just gonna fly the Normandy into the sunset leaving behind a massive base that noone can reach except through one relay and only Cerberus knows how...

Smart Shepard gives the base to Cerberus...because they get results.

Pretty obvious your a Cerberus fanboy apologist. Yeah... working with a terrorist organisation that repeatedly tried to kill you and the leader constantly keeps screwing you for his own ends.

Totally worth working for them... that wont bite you in the ass when TIM sees you as 'Expendable'

[JGDD]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

I don't recall in-game where Hackett or Anderson say they will volunteer a fleet to go deal with Shepard's lapse of judgement.
So if you could please provide a link to where it was said.

The only thing Shepard can prove is that the collectors have a base,and they made a giant robot,both of which happen to be out in the Terminus systems

The council will know this,and probably use that as an explanation to where the geth got Sovereign, and even if it is an all human council,they wouldn't want to start a war.

Collector base is at the galactic core.

[Lotion Soronarr]

J-Sheridan wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I don't think any alliance ship was close enough to respond in time.

Irrelevant, Overlord DLC Shepard tells Joker to contact a goddamn Academy and we have had communications being sent across the galaxy.
A ship may not be in the area but simply the act of sending a message informing the Alliance whats going on makes it appear you at least made the effort to inform them and arent playing for an enemy team.

Incidentally, with a Ashley or Kaiden there it seems a bit bizzare they wouldnt have a ship in the area to send backup if they were expecting an attack from Cerberus.
What... a single Alliance soldier was meant to hold of an attack by Cerberus using super guns that didnt work ?

Well, sending a message or not, if there's no ship in the vicinity, there is no ship in the vicinity. You'd still have ot go to Horizon either way. And IIRC, Ashley was there to oversee hte construction of those guns.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Except the Council doesn't do anything to stop the collectors.
And except Shep doesn't really have any data you're speaking off.

Lies... What do you think Jack was going through ?
What did Shepard collect from the captured and tortured Cerberus operative ?
EDI obviously has access to this information when her blocks are broken so the information is there and she even told him it was.
Zaeed has access to the cams in the ship, Omni Tools can be used to record data... feeding the Alliance or Council information about what your doing to prove playing nice AND provide proof of what your doing is massively logical.

The Council was unable to commit forces to stopping the Collectors cause politics prevents it. That dosent change the fact they do not trust you and think your going crazy. Providing tangible evidence the Collectors are real, you are fighting them and whats going on might get them back on your side.

ERm..you visit the citadel rather early. And I somehow doubt the council would want to watch a 24/7 big brother on the life on Normandy. They wouldn't want to bother, and it could very be staged to boot. Remember, these are the same moron who found nothing to suggest sovereign wasn't a Geth ship.
I really don't know what such camera recodrings would provide given that they are already willing to give you back Specter status.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
There was a turian patrol there bub....

Congratulations, you just won the prize for being an idiot for demonstrating you dont even know the story.

The signal was a trap that was an obvious fake. EDI tells you this and TIM admits it.

Calling someoen an idiot, all the while displaying an endless fountain of stupidity....brilliant.
Bub, there were turians frigates there. You SAW them.
The collectors WERE setting u pa trap, but they did attack a real patrol to lure you in. TIM messed with the signal, but the ships where there. You might want to check that part of hte game again.

I'll give you this one. Altough getting hte IFF is a priority, Shep can easily tell the Alliance about the reaper loaction later. It won't be going anywhere...at at least, it wasn't supposed to

And again.... the Reaper was contrived to be written out of the story which changes nothing.
There was no mandated time limit to get to the Reaper and given past experience with their technology it is extremely dumb to fly to one without informing someone RELIABLE.
TIM has already lied to you before and demonstrated an extremely poor behaviour to trust him.

Yeah, I'll place my call with the Alliance and call up Amy Wong.
Have her film the goddamn ship and watch the Council 'Dismiss' it.

And who would exactly be reliable?
Let's not forget, that the Colloectors are out there, doing their s****. You don't really have the luxury of time.

Also, TIM demonstrated nothing of the sort.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Smart Shepard gives the base to Cerberus...because they get results.

Pretty obvious your a Cerberus fanboy apologist. Yeah... working with a terrorist organisation that repeatedly tried to kill you and the leader constantly keeps screwing you for his own ends.

Alas, facts are with me on this one bub. Weather you like to admit it or not, Cerberus gets results.

And tried to kill me? When?

[LadyJaneGrey]

J-Sheridan wrote...

Game Shepard
Council: Your totally working for Ceberus and are evil
Shepard: Totally, I am a good guy seriously... its not how it looks... I deserve better than this even though I have provided no proof.
Council: Yeah, we dont believe you but we will make you a Spectre again. Just go play over there and dont talk to us again.
Anderson: Hey, we have an investigation into Ceberus... you cant trust them but go back to it.
Shepard: I should go and work with Ceberus...

  Yup.  I always felt like Anderson is kinda goofy - starting with the med bay scene in ME1.

More to the OP: people make opposite decisions with the same basic information all the time, so in that way all the choices are realistic.  Example: a morbidly obese, uncontrolled diabetic who point-blank refuses to begin excercising, eating more healthfully, monitoring his/her blood sugar, or starting medication - even after repeated warnings from doctors, pleas from family members, and even hospitilizations.  It's a stupid - but all too realistic and believable - decision. 

[J-Sheridan]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Well, sending a message or not, if there's no ship in the vicinity, there is no ship in the vicinity. You'd still have ot go to Horizon either way. And IIRC, Ashley was there to oversee hte construction of those guns.

TIM refuses to send a message cause he dosent want the Alliance getting in the way... if no ships were around to interfere... why not notify the Alliance ?
You have no evidence to support your claim and simply sending the message requires little effort to find out.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Erm..you visit the citadel rather early. And I somehow doubt the council would want to watch a 24/7 big brother on the life on Normandy. They wouldn't want to bother, and it could very be staged to boot. Remember, these are the same moron who found nothing to suggest sovereign wasn't a Geth ship.
I really don't know what such camera recodrings would provide given that they are already willing to give you back Specter status.

You can visit the Citadel repeatedly and uploading data about Cerberus to the Alliance or Council provides tangible proof your not working for Cerberus.
Wether they look at it or not, the proof is there and claiming Sovy was a Geth construction was a political convienience boosted by the fact you dont have proof.

Provide that proof and they have to accept it and deal with it one way or another. They gave you Spectre Status to shut you up and get you to go away with a politcal inconvienience.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Calling someoen an idiot, all the while displaying an endless fountain of stupidity....brilliant.
Bub, there were turians frigates there. You SAW them.
The collectors WERE setting u pa trap, but they did attack a real patrol to lure you in. TIM messed with the signal, but the ships where there. You might want to check that part of hte game again.

Show me where the Turians attack the Collector vessel ?
I must have missed that cinematic scene.
Prove the Turians attacked the Collector Vessel
TIM messed with the Signal - uhh no EDI specifically says the secondary encryption Turians use in their signals is corrupted
Collectors sent a Turian message that had corrupted encryption... - The Collectors sent a fake Turian message
Cerberus Detection Methods written by TIM can detect a fake signal...

If the Collector Vessel had engaged a real Turian patrol the signal they sent would logically be genuine and have the secondary encryption.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And who would exactly be reliable?
Let's not forget, that the Colloectors are out there, doing their s****. You don't really have the luxury of time.

Also, TIM demonstrated nothing of the sort.

Kaiden / Ashley ?
Anderson ?
Hackett ?
Your Mother (Spacer Background) ?

TIM lied to you repeatedly, sent you into a Collector trap, has spyware attached throughout your ship and has been involved in shady dealings.
Yeah... TIM has demonstrated he is untrustworthy, unreliable and a dangerous individual to deal with

The only situation where time becomes an issue is with the installation of the IFF and Arrival. Everything in between could take as long as you want and with all the side missions time is hardly pressing to prevent making calls let alone getting more support on the field for what is obviously going to be a dangerous mission.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Alas, facts are with me on this one bub. Weather you like to admit it or not, Cerberus gets results.

And tried to kill me? When?

Indeed, Cerberus gets results like Project Overlord.
Yay ! Terrorists get results... I totally trust them and want to be part of their organisation working for a guy that lies to me, sends me into traps without warning and has repeatedly manipulated you to serve his own ends.

The facts are with me and with Cerb coming after you in ME 3... yeah hows that Cerb trust working for you bub.

[Thompson family]

My vote for the galaxy's worst Renegade choice: Turning down reinstatement as a Spectre.

A glactic bad*** turns down a license to kill -- from anybody.

Now that is proof of just how fragile Shep's mental state is.

[LilyasAvalon]

Whether or not something is realistic depends on yours/Shepards view of morality/logic. That's the point of the game. Neither paragon nor renegade were made to be stable enough to work the entire game.

The BDtS choice was a poor one to go with, but I'll bite. Renegades argue that letting someone who knows how to smash asteroids into planets or whatever isn't logical, however, it seems common knowledge by a few people in the ME universe how to turn asteroids into either projectiles or rockets, etc.

He's already done it anyway, regardless, what he did will get out, some other insane idiot will hear, the knowledge is already out. I shoot Balak purely on the decision of, if I can be bothered fighting him, or the drones.