951 réponses à ce sujet

[IronSabbath88]

Man, I don't understand how people think keeping the Collector Base is going to be the best decision. We've CLEARLY seen Cerberus gets indoctrinated in ME3. Or something along those lines. Whose to say that the people in that base aren't under Reaper control now and therefore under Reaper control once again, and so the reapers have that base AGAIN.

It's best to just space the thing. No good can come out of keeping it. Maybe I'll be proved wrong, but we'll see.

[LilyasAvalon]

I didn't base my decision to destroy the base on the fact of Cerberus' apparent 'indoctrination' in ME3 or that a lot of people had died there. I didn't let them keep it because it was JUST Cerberus who'd get to look at that base.

If they were going to share it with the Council or Alliance or whatever, sure, I would've kept the base, but they weren't and Cerberus is the only party (Aside from the Broker) who even KNOWS about the base. I sure as hell don't trust them with that kind of power alone.

[Sylvius the Mad]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Man, I don't understand how people think keeping the Collector Base is going to be the best decision. We've CLEARLY seen Cerberus gets indoctrinated in ME3.

But Shepard doesn't know that at the time the decision about the Collector Base is made.  As such, that knowledge cannot be used to evaluate the decision.

[Sylvius the Mad]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I didn't base my decision to destroy the base on the fact of Cerberus' apparent 'indoctrination' in ME3 or that a lot of people had died there. I didn't let them keep it because it was JUST Cerberus who'd get to look at that base.

If they were going to share it with the Council or Alliance or whatever, sure, I would've kept the base, but they weren't and Cerberus is the only party (Aside from the Broker) who even KNOWS about the base. I sure as hell don't trust them with that kind of power alone.

Shepard knows about the base.  Shepard can tell people.

[mulder1199]

not to beat a dead horse, there are many choices we don't know about and how they'll play out....maybe the rachnii queen IS evil so renegade would make more sense....

maybe wrex wants to dominate the galaxy....

we don't know yet....

[LilyasAvalon]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I didn't base my decision to destroy the base on the fact of Cerberus' apparent 'indoctrination' in ME3 or that a lot of people had died there. I didn't let them keep it because it was JUST Cerberus who'd get to look at that base.

If they were going to share it with the Council or Alliance or whatever, sure, I would've kept the base, but they weren't and Cerberus is the only party (Aside from the Broker) who even KNOWS about the base. I sure as hell don't trust them with that kind of power alone.

Shepard knows about the base.  Shepard can tell people.

Shepard also knows about the Reapers. Shepard tried telling people.

...Look how well that turned out.

[Xewaka]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...
Man, I don't understand how people think keeping the Collector Base is going to be the best decision. We've CLEARLY seen Cerberus gets indoctrinated in ME3.

But Shepard doesn't know that at the time the decision about the Collector Base is made.  As such, that knowledge cannot be used to evaluate the decision.

We do know however that the IFF researchers aboard the derelict reaper were indoctrinated. It is not a far-fetching guess to assume the collector base has a similar power, specially considering the collectors cannot act without direct reaper guidance (as stated by Mordin).

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


The same holds true for the Geth and Racnii. Everything you do to increase the power of the galactic forces can backfire.
Yet if you don't so it, chances of victory are paracticly zero.


If studying hte base causes some sort of indoctrination - blow the base up!
It might weaken you, but you are already too weak to put up a credible resistance anyway.

----------

Reaper getting the base back is insignificant.

First of all, they can't reach it in minutes. The base is at the galactic core and the reaper are arriving from the outer edge. It would take them days, weeks to get to it. More than enough time for you t oblow it up a dozen times.

Secondly, blowing the base is not a problem at any point. Ever heard of a remote detonator? Anyone at the base can easily make sure it doesn't fall into reaper hands.

Third, the base is inconsequential to the reaper war effort on the reaper side. It's way out of the way from the area of the civilized races, and it's a completely static resource. If the reapers capture it, then they now have a static resource they have to defend. Meaning they will have to leave a few reapers tehre. Meaning there's a few reapers less to directly attack you.

---------
What's stopping Sheppard from doing it? He has the IFF and the knowledge. He can easily come back with a whole alliance fleet. I'ts a vaible possiblitiy, evne if one that Bioware probably won't let you explore, but in-character it reamins a possiblity still.

Indoctrination isn't obvious when its working on you. By time you figure out things could be wrong its too late you're already gone. It happened to the Cerberus crew on the dead Reaper by time they figured out something was wrong it was too late. If the base started doing the same thing the same thing would happen they'd be indoctrinated

The Ture Geth are the smallest risk out of everyone. They are the only ones that can't be indoctrinated and we know that making a virus capable of controling them takes a long time and might not be capable of being produced (Remember Sovvy couldn't even finish the virus the Heritics had to finish it for him and that's because they had knowledge of how their programing works the Reapers don't) The Rachni aren't to blame they were indoctrinated, and if you're going to use that as a defense of them being a risk than you'd have to kill everyone in the galaxy because every other sentient being can be indoctrinated.

Hello.... They're called Mass Relays. Once the Reapers are in a Relay system it would take them a matter of minutes to reach the Collector Base. The Reapers made the Omega Relay so they already have the IFF code once they showed up in the system they could get through the Omega Relay in a second. If you believe that Shepard would have a chance at taking back the base than the Reapers who are far stronger and have more knowledge of the base than him would be able to do it instantly so your argument made no sense at all.

We know that the Collector Base produces more advanced husks that the normal Reaper doesn't carry as is mentioned by Shepard. It also has advanced weapons that they would be able to give their indoctrinated pawns making them far more of a threat than if they didn't have it. As I mentioned before they can use the Relays to transport those resources quickly from system to system (There are hundreds of Reapers attacking the Earth if two or three left for a moment that wouldn't effect the invasion at all and they'd bring back deadly resources)

There is a long list of things the Reapers could get from taking back the base another one being a plentiful supply of Cerberus agents that can now be used against the galaxy.

Modifié par ISpeakTheTruth, 25 août 2011 - 05:53 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

I don't recall in-game where Hackett or Anderson say they will volunteer a fleet to go deal with Shepard's lapse of judgement.
So if you could please provide a link to where it was said.

The only thing Shepard can prove is that the collectors have a base,and they made a giant robot,both of which happen to be out in the Terminus systems

The council will know this,and probably use that as an explanation to where the geth got Sovereign, and even if it is an all human council,they wouldn't want to start a war.

Collector base is at the galactic core.

And that changes..what exactly?

Everyone knows the collectors have more sophisticated tech,they use the O4 relay all the time,one without knowledge of the reapers wouldn't say " Oh,this collector base must prove the existance of the reapers!"

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 25 août 2011 - 06:18 .

[khordlambert]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Since when did Renegade = Want to go down on TIM and obey his every word?

I know this one was a few pages back, but I really wanted to agree with it. I killed the Rachni queen and all that good stuff, but not ONCE did I ever put my faith in with an organization who's most sucessful* in game experiement was "Inject a guy with acid from a big worm and see what happens". Let ALONE all the other screw ups I was witnessed to. Add in all the backstabbings, clean up work, and TIM's info whitholding, and I was actually missing the Council! At least they told you everything they knew when they sent you off into certain death!

*Sucessful, in this case meaning "was not DIRECTLY responsible for killing themselves". I.E. Experiment went nuts. In this case, the failure was due to acts of Shepard.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


The same holds true for the Geth and Racnii. Everything you do to increase the power of the galactic forces can backfire.
Yet if you don't so it, chances of victory are paracticly zero.


If studying hte base causes some sort of indoctrination - blow the base up!
It might weaken you, but you are already too weak to put up a credible resistance anyway.

----------

Reaper getting the base back is insignificant.

First of all, they can't reach it in minutes. The base is at the galactic core and the reaper are arriving from the outer edge. It would take them days, weeks to get to it. More than enough time for you t oblow it up a dozen times.

Secondly, blowing the base is not a problem at any point. Ever heard of a remote detonator? Anyone at the base can easily make sure it doesn't fall into reaper hands.

Third, the base is inconsequential to the reaper war effort on the reaper side. It's way out of the way from the area of the civilized races, and it's a completely static resource. If the reapers capture it, then they now have a static resource they have to defend. Meaning they will have to leave a few reapers tehre. Meaning there's a few reapers less to directly attack you.

---------
What's stopping Sheppard from doing it? He has the IFF and the knowledge. He can easily come back with a whole alliance fleet. I'ts a vaible possiblitiy, evne if one that Bioware probably won't let you explore, but in-character it reamins a possiblity still.

Indoctrination isn't obvious when its working on you. By time you figure out things could be wrong its too late you're already gone. It happened to the Cerberus crew on the dead Reaper by time they figured out something was wrong it was too late. If the base started doing the same thing the same thing would happen they'd be indoctrinated

As I said before - you'll be facing indoctrination either way. It MUST be studied, regardless of the risk. You might loose poeopel, sure - but war is hell.
If you don't find a way to coutner it, you'll soon find yourself constantly fighting agasint your own. Your ships sabotaged, your plans and positions leaked to the enemy. It's a nightmare.

The Ture Geth are the smallest risk out of everyone. They are the only ones that can't be indoctrinated and we know that making a virus capable of controling them takes a long time and might not be capable of being produced (Remember Sovvy couldn't even finish the virus the Heritics had to finish it for him and that's because they had knowledge of how their programing works the Reapers don't) The Rachni aren't to blame they were indoctrinated, and if you're going to use that as a defense of them being a risk than you'd have to kill everyone in the galaxy because every other sentient being can be indoctrinated.

dude..you realise that only source of that..are the Geth and Rachnii themselves. Hardly an unbiased and objective source of information. Both have plenty of reasons to lie to you.
You don't NKOW that the rachnii were indoctrinated. The queen tells you so.
You don't NKOW the "True Geth" are harmless. Legion tells you so. Heck, Legion needs you to infliltrate a geth base and upload a virus. What exactly will that virus do? You only have his word on the effect. For all you know, Legion could be a double-agent.

Hello.... They're called Mass Relays. Once the Reapers are in a Relay system it would take them a matter of minutes to reach the Collector Base. The Reapers made the Omega Relay so they already have the IFF code once they showed up in the system they could get through the Omega Relay in a second. If you believe that Shepard would have a chance at taking back the base than the Reapers who are far stronger and have more knowledge of the base than him would be able to do it instantly so your argument made no sense at all.

Even with mass relays, the trip is measured in hours and days. Not minutes. And the council races are closer to the base then they are.
Yeah, you can blow up the base a dozen time before they reach it.

We know that the Collector Base produces more advanced husks that the normal Reaper doesn't carry as is mentioned by Shepard.

WUT?

It also has advanced weapons that they would be able to give their indoctrinated pawns making them far more of a threat than if they didn't have it. As I mentioned before they can use the Relays to transport those resources quickly from system to system

A few hunderd ground troops are insignificant in a galaxy war. Especially pathetic ones like the collectors.
Especially in a battle that is fought in SPACE with SPACESHIPS.

There is a long list of things the Reapers could get from taking back the base another one being a plentiful supply of Cerberus agents that can now be used against the galaxy.

I'm quaking in my boots. Reapers are gonan have a few more indoctrinated pawns. That's really gonna be a major concern on my mind with thousands of repaers indoctrinating and reaping around.:happy:

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Once again if it was anyone other than Cerberus looking at the base I'd give it to them, I believe that they are far more likely to mess things up than they are to find anything useful.

Alot of what we believe is true is based on what people tell us and isn't shown to us because taking the time to show us that everything we're told is true would take too much time. We know Legion is telling the truth because every time he talks about the Geth the Codex is updated. The Codex is the bible of ME if what he says is in the Codex than its true.

Dude, ME3 starts witht eh Reapers blitzing everyone. Everyone is caught with their pants down that would be including Cerberus. It might take more time for them to reach the Base but they're the only ones heading for it. If they can suprise the Earth that is the center of a council race than they can certainly suprise Cerberus.

On Horizon Shepard looks at a husk and says that its more advanced than the ones he fought in ME1. That tells me clearly that the tech the Collector Base uses to make husks and other soilders is more advanced than what the average Reaper brings with them. You're also not taking into account mass production. Sure you may only start out with a few hundred more advanced troops but the Reapers have superior technology they can build an army using that base in no time.

We know for a fact that this war is going to be waged on two fronts from space but alos on the planet surface. If they have more advanced troops with better weapons than their ground offensive will be more deadly to our allies. Just because Shepard can beat enemies easily doesn't mean that they are easy to be outside of gameplay, in lore they could be alot stronger.

Cerberus has conections with some of the richest humans in the galaxy if they indoctrinate them than they can find the people with the most resources and turn them too.

[TheDangerZone91]

okay okay, as for the Balek thing

if you ask me

theres just going to be some side mission or some sub-mission about this where he's probably building up a force and you'll need to mop up and take him down

bing bang boom, gone ;D


as for the base, i thought about it. but i did not trust Cerberus with the base. After seeing the ME3 footage, I'm glad i didnt have to to a replay.

Modifié par TheDangerZone91, 26 août 2011 - 01:56 .

[Wereparrot]

I'll never understand why the game considers it renegade to lay down the law to crewmates who need the riot act read to them; namely Jack and Grunt. Paragon Shepard seems to prefer anarchy as a form of government.

[Seboist]

Wereparrot wrote...

I'll never understand why the game considers it renegade to lay down the law to crewmates who need the riot act read to them; namely Jack and Grunt. Paragon Shepard seems to prefer anarchy as a form of government.

Paragon Shepard is too much of a chump and a boyscout. Neutral/Renegade actually acts like a CO.

I enjoy having my Shepard put her foot down and put Grunt,Jack,Joker,Gabby and Ken in their place.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Man, I don't understand how people think keeping the Collector Base is going to be the best decision. We've CLEARLY seen Cerberus gets indoctrinated in ME3. Or something along those lines. Whose to say that the people in that base aren't under Reaper control now and therefore under Reaper control once again, and so the reapers have that base AGAIN.

It's best to just space the thing. No good can come out of keeping it. Maybe I'll be proved wrong, but we'll see.

We already know that the game wraps around Paragon choices for the most positive outcomes.  We're debating it as an actual choice.  It doesn't make much sense for Shepard to be willing to work with psychopaths, loyalists, savages, and Cerberus itself to stop the Collectors from abducting humans... yet when it comes time to stop galaxy-wide extermination... that's where Shepard draws the line.

TIM and Cerberus can and have been put in check before.  The Base itself is a resource that's independent of Cerberus (even if they'll definitely be studying it).  Fact is though, that we have no working alternative to stopping the Reapers... and we need all the help we can get.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Plus, time has passed since the base decision was made... what exactly was Shepard doing? So far the storyline only makes sense if you did a Paragon playthrough (with Cerberus after Shepard, etc.).

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Plus, time has passed since the base decision was made... what exactly was Shepard doing? So far the storyline only makes sense if you did a Paragon playthrough (with Cerberus after Shepard, etc.).

It makes sense for renegades if harby tried to convince TIM to pull a saphra.

[spurkis]

Seboist wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

I'll never understand why the game considers it renegade to lay down the law to crewmates who need the riot act read to them; namely Jack and Grunt. Paragon Shepard seems to prefer anarchy as a form of government.

Paragon Shepard is too much of a chump and a boyscout. Neutral/Renegade actually acts like a CO.

I enjoy having my Shepard put her foot down and put Grunt,Jack,Joker,Gabby and Ken in their place.

With Garrus in ME1 it was the opposite, remember? Renegade, and you'd encourage him to be a scumbag as long as the job gets done. Paragon, and you'd order him to be more formal and respectful for regulations.  

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Plus, time has passed since the base decision was made... what exactly was Shepard doing? So far the storyline only makes sense if you did a Paragon playthrough (with Cerberus after Shepard, etc.).

It makes sense for renegades if harby tried to convince TIM to pull a saphra.

But that hasn't happened (in any of the games), the only playthrough where we know Cerberus is after Shepard when ME2 ends is the Paragon one.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 26 août 2011 - 04:57 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Plus, time has passed since the base decision was made... what exactly was Shepard doing? So far the storyline only makes sense if you did a Paragon playthrough (with Cerberus after Shepard, etc.).

It makes sense for renegades if harby tried to convince TIM to pull a saphra.

But that hasn't happened (in any of the games), the only playthrough where we know Cerberus is after Shepard when ME2 ends is the Paragon one.

We know Cerberus is after Shepard regardless... The quote was "hell bent" on killing "Shepard" not paragon Shepard.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 26 août 2011 - 04:59 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Plus, time has passed since the base decision was made... what exactly was Shepard doing? So far the storyline only makes sense if you did a Paragon playthrough (with Cerberus after Shepard, etc.).

It makes sense for renegades if harby tried to convince TIM to pull a saphra.

But that hasn't happened (in any of the games), the only playthrough where we know Cerberus is after Shepard when ME2 ends is the Paragon one.

We know Cerberus is after Shepard regardless...

Only the Paragon run has Shepard no longer working with Cerberus.  No one tells Shepard that Cerberus is coming after them in the Renegade ending.

[Thompson family]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Plus, time has passed since the base decision was made... what exactly was Shepard doing?

Well, I can't speak for your Shep, but Cmdr. Frank Shepard completed field repairs to the Normandy, then took her into dock near Earth for a final refit and sent the bill to TIM. He told the crew to take some well-earned leave and recuperation time while he took a shuttle to the Shadow Broker base for some "personal time" with Liara — while also examining those Reaper and Cerberus files while Liara listens through the Shadow Broker network for any news or alarms. The crew was told to rest and recover for two weeks but to be back at Earth or nearby, no farther than a three-hour trip from the Normandy, during a third week of leave. They were to be prepared to move within one hour after getting to the Normandy..

So after a total of three weeks leave — perhaps more, depending on the SR2's repair and refit time — the crew was to bring the SR2 to the Shadow broker base and to be on notice to respond anywhere. EDI was integrated into the Shadow Broker base datafiles to assist and to have the information handy after the Normandy departs.

[Thompson family]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Only the Paragon run has Shepard no longer working with Cerberus.  No one tells Shepard that Cerberus is coming after them in the Renegade ending.

But they do come after Shep irregardlss, Mr. Gogeta34.