951 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

The game isn't out yet, how would you know if it is a continuity break? As much as you and a few others would like to think, there isn't an " Omg TIM good luck, love ya." ending,you end on shaky terms at best, so saying it is a continuity break based on the few bits of info there is, is just pessimism because of Cerberus fanaticism.

ME 3 isn't out yet.  The first two games are.  And you've got it wrong.  I'd love to fight Cerberus... but that change should've been demonstrated in-game.... that's why it's a continuity break compared to those who destroyed the base.

Both TIM and Shepard knew that the Collector Base alone wouldn't win a war against the Reapers... and TIM himself even went as far as to say they needed eachother.

How do you transition from that.... to Cerberus wanting Shepard dead?  It doesn't make sense... which means there's content missing to explain it.

The Paragon version on the other hand... (besides the whole quitting/Miranda defecting/angry TIM/blown base thing) Jacob tells Shepard flat out that Cerberus will want him dead now... so it makes perfect sense why Cerberus is against him in ME3.

Think about it.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 26 août 2011 - 05:42 .

[Seboist]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Cerberus against Shepard in ME3 is a continuity break for base keepers... no question about it... and is only a continuity break for Base keepers.

I also do admit that story-wise... there's not been a single positive thing that's happened because of the non Paragon or Renegade choice compared to the Paragon alternative.

One of the things that pissed me off about the news about Cerberus being an enemy for 40% of the game was that it took me completely off guard since the big implication of Arrival was that the Batarians would be the major non-Reaper enemy in ME3.

Cerberus going after even a pure paragon Shepard doesn't make any sense either. TIM implied he still wanted to work with a base destroyer Shepard " don't turn your back on me Shepard!!!" and him going out of his way to fight her in the middle of a Reaper war is freaking absurd.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

The CB decision is the last decision plot-wise you make, how could it be a continuity break if they haven't even told you why,maybe the beginning of ME3 Cerberus is friendly to you,then sometime while doing missions TIM has his change of heart about you and you have to find out why

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Seboist wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Cerberus against Shepard in ME3 is a continuity break for base keepers... no question about it... and is only a continuity break for Base keepers.

I also do admit that story-wise... there's not been a single positive thing that's happened because of the non Paragon or Renegade choice compared to the Paragon alternative.

One of the things that pissed me off about the news about Cerberus being an enemy for 40% of the game was that it took me completely off guard since the big implication of Arrival was that the Batarians would be the major non-Reaper enemy in ME3.

Cerberus going after even a pure paragon Shepard doesn't make any sense either. TIM implied he still wanted to work with a base destroyer Shepard " don't turn your back on me Shepard!!!" and him going out of his way to fight her in the middle of a Reaper war is freaking absurd.

Good point about the Batarians... but Shepard did turn his back on TIM... and destroying one of their percieved only hopes at defeating the Reapers would easily be grounds for retaliation.  Especailly considering that Shepard stole EDI, the Normandy, and her crew too (returning to the Alliance/Council/enemies of Cerberus, etc.)

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 26 août 2011 - 05:44 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

The CB decision is the last decision plot-wise you make, how could it be a continuity break if they haven't even told you why,maybe the beginning of ME3 Cerberus is friendly to you,then sometime while doing missions TIM has his change of heart about you and you have to find out why

The word I used there was "continuity."  It makes sense why TIM would be after a base destroyer Shepard.  It doesn't make sense why TIM is after a base keeper Shepard.

Bioware has also been declaring Cerberus to be enemies and working with the Reapers as part of the premise of the story.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

I'm hoping it isn't as simple as indoctrination,that is even cheaper of a plot tool than killing Shep to get Shep to work for Cerberus.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 26 août 2011 - 05:47 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

The CB decision is the last decision plot-wise you make, how could it be a continuity break if they haven't even told you why,maybe the beginning of ME3 Cerberus is friendly to you,then sometime while doing missions TIM has his change of heart about you and you have to find out why

The word I used there was "continuity."  It makes sense why TIM would be after a base destroyer Shepard.  It doesn't make sense why TIM is after a base keeper Shepard.

Bioware has also been declaring Cerberus to be enemies and working with the Reapers as part of the premise of the story.

Like Seboist said, going after Shepard in the middle of a reaper war isn't exactly a good idea, that's kind of like trying to courtmartial the MC cause he team killed some marines in the Warthog in the middle of the war.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

I'm hoping it isn't as simple as indoctrination,that is even cheaper of a plot tool than killing Shep to get Shep to work for Cerberus.

It definitely sounds like there's more to it than that... so my fingers are crossed with you on that one.  But when an enemy brings you back to life to stop a legitimate threat to all of humanity... that's a pretty compelling reason to join forces... I must admit.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Like Seboist said, going after Shepard in the middle of a reaper war isn't exactly a good idea, that's kind of like trying to courtmartial the MC cause he team killed some marines in the Warthog in the middle of the war.

Kinda, in this case, if Shepard goes around blowing up every potential resource or information to use against the Reapers because of how dastardly the previous owners had been using it... a case could be made that Shepard would do more harm than good.

[Thompson family]

Seboist wrote...

One of the things that pissed me off about the news about Cerberus being an enemy for 40% of the game ...

To clarify, I think that quote was that Cerberus forces would make up about 40 percent of the enemies Shep will fight, and be enemies whenever present in the game. The only reason I'm quibbling, Seboist, is because somebody will see that and say "Cerberus is only an enemy 40 percent of the time." I know what you mean, but if anything can be misinterpreted, it will.

==========

...

was that it took me completely off guard since the big implication of Arrival was that the Batarians would be the major non-Reaper enemy in ME3.

THAT is a d*** good point.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...


Good point about the Batarians... but Shepard did turn his back on TIM... and destroying one of their percieved only hopes at defeating the Reapers would easily be grounds for retaliation.  Especailly considering that Shepard stole EDI, the Normandy, and her crew too (returning to the Alliance/Council/enemies of Cerberus, etc.)

TIM's never put revenge or personal disputes before buisness, though. It's a trait during ME2 (Zaeed, Jack, even Shepard), and it's carried over in the other books. Even in Retribution, the bona fide TIM revenge story, he goes after someone he doesn't have future use for (other than as an experiment)... and after Anderson turns Grayson loose and delivers a major blow to Cerberus, TIM's thoughts are towards future cooperation with Anderson against the Reapers.

TIM siding with the Reapers to get back at Shepard defies two of TIM's longest traits: future pragmaticism over personal revenge, and prioritizing the Reapers.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

On the flip side, given the Reaper husks we've seen so far... it looks as though it's possible for the Batarians to have been among the first attacked and repurposed by the Reapers.

[Thompson family]

Dean_the_Young wrote...


TIM siding with the Reapers to get back at Shepard defies two of TIM's longest traits: future pragmaticism over personal revenge, and prioritizing the Reapers.

Reinforced by the last paragraph in Revelation, which talks about the Reapers coming. It is foremost in TIM's thoughts.

He has a plan. My guess is that he needs the Reapers to disperse to hunt down "remnants" of various organic species, and they won't do that as long as there's a credible threat of a counterstrike out there from the coalition Shep's trying to put together.

[Seboist]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...


Good point about the Batarians... but Shepard did turn his back on TIM... and destroying one of their percieved only hopes at defeating the Reapers would easily be grounds for retaliation.  Especailly considering that Shepard stole EDI, the Normandy, and her crew too (returning to the Alliance/Council/enemies of Cerberus, etc.)

TIM's never put revenge or personal disputes before buisness, though. It's a trait during ME2 (Zaeed, Jack, even Shepard), and it's carried over in the other books. Even in Retribution, the bona fide TIM revenge story, he goes after someone he doesn't have future use for (other than as an experiment)... and after Anderson turns Grayson loose and delivers a major blow to Cerberus, TIM's thoughts are towards future cooperation with Anderson against the Reapers.

TIM siding with the Reapers to get back at Shepard defies two of TIM's longest traits: future pragmaticism over personal revenge, and prioritizing the Reapers.

You forgot Kasumi. :happy:

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
TIM's never put revenge or personal disputes before buisness, though. It's a trait during ME2 (Zaeed, Jack, even Shepard), and it's carried over in the other books. Even in Retribution, the bona fide TIM revenge story, he goes after someone he doesn't have future use for (other than as an experiment)... and after Anderson turns Grayson loose and delivers a major blow to Cerberus, TIM's thoughts are towards future cooperation with Anderson against the Reapers.

TIM siding with the Reapers to get back at Shepard defies two of TIM's longest traits: future pragmaticism over personal revenge, and prioritizing the Reapers.

He'd take advantage if the stars aligned.  If he feels Shepard is not right enough in the head to win the war (because he'd destroy any nasty Reaper technology he sees before trying to study or counter it)... then killing Shepard (in TIM's eyes) could be one of the most beneficial things he could do in the war effort.

On the flip side, his relationship with the Reapers could be in order to have a stay of execution (in an atempt to save the Earth from being completely destroyed... and to buy humanity some time).

[J-Sheridan]

'I wanna join Cerberus but ME3 is gonna make them come after me even though I helped them'

Hey... I didnt want to work for Cerberus in ME2 and wanted to go back to the Alliance / Council. Was that option allowed - Uhh no, you got railroaded into working with Cerberus until the end.

If players cant get the option to tell TIM to get lost until the end and go down the route of being a willing traitor to the Alliance / Council in ME2. It is beyond unreasonable and in the realms of stupid for BW to employ that dynamic in ME3.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I didn't base my decision to destroy the base on the fact of Cerberus' apparent 'indoctrination' in ME3 or that a lot of people had died there. I didn't let them keep it because it was JUST Cerberus who'd get to look at that base.

If they were going to share it with the Council or Alliance or whatever, sure, I would've kept the base, but they weren't and Cerberus is the only party (Aside from the Broker) who even KNOWS about the base. I sure as hell don't trust them with that kind of power alone.

Shepard knows about the base.  Shepard can tell people.

Shepard also knows about the Reapers. Shepard tried telling people.

...Look how well that turned out.

A little different since you have the IFF and can take them to a physical location... heck you could even call it a Geth super weapon... whatever the Council wants to call it to get them over there to check it out.

Shepard:  "There's gonna be a massive Reape...er... Geth invasion" (there)

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 26 août 2011 - 06:16 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

The CB doesn't prove the existence of the reapers though...shown to the council they would just think that is how the geth got Sovereign, the advanced tech? Everyone already knows the collectors have more advanced tech.

[sorentoft]

Zu Long wrote...

To answer the topic creator, I can think of 8 realistic renegade options/interrupts.

1. Blow away Kenson in Arrival.
2. Kill the Gunship repairman.
3. Blow away the mercs in Miranda's mission.
4. Headbutt the Krogan.
5. Blow up Weyrloc Speaker.
6. Headshot the Mech.
7. Call out the Eclipse Sister.
8. Intimidating the criminal with your Spectre status.

The rest are based on carelessness, cruelty, and paranoia.

These are basically the only renegade options I take. The rest of the options (especially conversation) is just silly to pick. Seriously.

Modifié par sorentoft, 26 août 2011 - 06:46 .

[Seboist]

laecraft wrote...

When the nuke with the news about Cerberus was dropped so casually, I went through all stages of grief. Including the additional stage which happens only where fiction is concerned - disengaging. Now, I simply don't care anymore - about Cerberus, about the Reapers, and about what happens to the Earth and the galaxy.

But it's still sort of fun. Just not as gripping as it was before.

And I'm still looking forward to seeing TIM (if he shows up at all), Mordin (if he can find time in his busy schedule to give me a proper greeting), and Grunt (not much hope for it.) And perhaps I'll be allowed to shoot VS (even less likely than Cerberus being an ally.) The writing is good, and the animation is an eye-candy. And at least I'll be in the proper mood for shooting things.

I wish I learned it during the actual game, though. What a spoiler.

Yeah, the news about Cerberus really killed a lot of my enthusiasm for this game as well.  Oh well, I have no doubt it'll become one of my all time favorites like the first two and I can just write it off as non-canon if they butcher Cerberus and TIM.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Seboist wrote...


Yeah, the news about Cerberus really killed a lot of my enthusiasm for this game as well.  Oh well, I have no doubt it'll become one of my all time favorites like the first two and I can just write it off as non-canon if they butcher Cerberus and TIM.

Non-canon if you don't like it,ha.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 26 août 2011 - 06:59 .

[Seboist]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Seboist wrote...


Yeah, the news about Cerberus really killed a lot of my enthusiasm for this game as well.  Oh well, I have no doubt it'll become one of my all time favorites like the first two and I can just write it off as non-canon if they butcher Cerberus and TIM.

lol non-canon if you don't like it,ha.

That's what a lot of Star Wars fans do with the prequel trilogy. :happy:

[Thompson family]

laecraft wrote...

I wish I learned it during the actual game, though. What a spoiler.

To each his own, but I shudder to think of the reaction this would have received it BW waited until the game release to spring this one.

[TheBlackBaron]

Most of them, actually. Personal opinion, of course, but I find the majority of Paragon choices to be unbearably naive and unrealistic in their effects. Renegade/Intimidate suffers from this at times as well, but Paragon Shepard's ability to Charm hardened criminals into becoming social workers (to use one example) borders on magic.