951 réponses à ce sujet

[shiftylookingspacecow]

Cerberus working for the Reapers actually didn't suprise me all that much.

Humor me on this

Weither or not you keep the base, the Illusive Man knows that the reapers were trying to make a human reaper. This intrigues him. Further study of the base, or not having the base leads him to the conclusion that the reapers cannot be stoped. His goal is, as it always has been, the preservation of hummanity, and if that means ascendance into godhood via the reapers, then that is just what is going to have to happen.

[Thompson family]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

...  Paragon Shepard's ability to Charm hardened criminals into becoming social workers (to use one example) borders on magic.

The one I never believed is that a crime lord would confess to hiring a hit man just to get a cheaper rate on bribing a police officer -- thereby confessing to bribing a police officer in the process.

I just adopt neither R or P option on that one and keep going to "I'm a Spectre. I'll shoot you if I want."

[khordlambert]

Seboist wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Seboist wrote...


Yeah, the news about Cerberus really killed a lot of my enthusiasm for this game as well.  Oh well, I have no doubt it'll become one of my all time favorites like the first two and I can just write it off as non-canon if they butcher Cerberus and TIM.

lol non-canon if you don't like it,ha.

That's what a lot of Star Wars fans do with the prequel trilogy. :happy:

Still doesn't change the fact that those movies are still cannon despite the fanboy whining and self delusion. Kinda like you in assuming that TIM and Shepard want in each other's pants.

[jamesp81]

I think there's sound reason to choose the renegade option for the collector base. Studying the enemy's tech is never a bad thing.

[Seboist]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Most of them, actually. Personal opinion, of course, but I find the majority of Paragon choices to be unbearably naive and unrealistic in their effects. Renegade/Intimidate suffers from this at times as well, but Paragon Shepard's ability to Charm hardened criminals into becoming social workers (to use one example) borders on magic.

Yeah, the Helena Blake example is a theater of the absurd. The same with the charm option in Zaeed's loyalty mission where a ruthless merc who's known nothing but violence for most of his life and who lost his one chance at revenge after twenty years gets convinced in less than a minute that Shepard is a "paragon" of virtue and is "right".

I still can't get over how they made a mockery of my favorite squadmate like that....

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Seboist wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Most of them, actually. Personal opinion, of course, but I find the majority of Paragon choices to be unbearably naive and unrealistic in their effects. Renegade/Intimidate suffers from this at times as well, but Paragon Shepard's ability to Charm hardened criminals into becoming social workers (to use one example) borders on magic.

Yeah, the Helena Blake example is a theater of the absurd. The same with the charm option in Zaeed's loyalty mission where a ruthless merc who's known nothing but violence for most of his life and who lost his one chance at revenge after twenty years gets convinced in less than a minute that Shepard is a "paragon" of virtue and is "right".

I still can't get over how they made a mockery of my favorite squadmate like that....

I hated that part, Zaeeds VO right there sounded so forced,the whole mission was rather poorly executed.


And worse still, it made Zaeed look like a ****.
I always go renegade that mission...mainly for the AR damage,but the ending is much better.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 26 août 2011 - 09:06 .

[KotorEffect3]

Seboist wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Most of them, actually. Personal opinion, of course, but I find the majority of Paragon choices to be unbearably naive and unrealistic in their effects. Renegade/Intimidate suffers from this at times as well, but Paragon Shepard's ability to Charm hardened criminals into becoming social workers (to use one example) borders on magic.

Yeah, the Helena Blake example is a theater of the absurd. The same with the charm option in Zaeed's loyalty mission where a ruthless merc who's known nothing but violence for most of his life and who lost his one chance at revenge after twenty years gets convinced in less than a minute that Shepard is a "paragon" of virtue and is "right".

I still can't get over how they made a mockery of my favorite squadmate like that....

Your just pissed that Paragon Shepard is more of a badass in the Zaeed loyalty mission than renegade shepard.   renegade shepard is like "oh yes mr zaeed sir whatever makes you happy" meanwhile Paragon Shepard sticks a gun in Zaeed's face and let's Zaeed know who is in charge and if he is going to be on Shepard's team is going to have to follow orders just like everybody else.

[Seboist]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Seboist wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Most of them, actually. Personal opinion, of course, but I find the majority of Paragon choices to be unbearably naive and unrealistic in their effects. Renegade/Intimidate suffers from this at times as well, but Paragon Shepard's ability to Charm hardened criminals into becoming social workers (to use one example) borders on magic.

Yeah, the Helena Blake example is a theater of the absurd. The same with the charm option in Zaeed's loyalty mission where a ruthless merc who's known nothing but violence for most of his life and who lost his one chance at revenge after twenty years gets convinced in less than a minute that Shepard is a "paragon" of virtue and is "right".

I still can't get over how they made a mockery of my favorite squadmate like that....

I hated that part, Zaeeds VO right there sounded so forced,the whole mission was rather poorly executed.

The Paragon path in Zaeed's LM is as absurd as Garrus'. The latter has Paragon Shepard outright accepting Garrus' request to KILL Sidonis followed by a massacre of a whole warehouse full of mercs, a merciless beating of Harkin and then when Garrus has him in his sight Shepard starts to preach "Thou shall not kill" out of nowhere.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Seboist wrote...


The Paragon path in Zaeed's LM is as absurd as Garrus'. The latter has Paragon Shepard outright accepting Garrus' request to KILL Sidonis followed by a massacre of a whole warehouse full of mercs, a merciless beating of Harkin and then when Garrus has him in his sight Shepard starts to preach "Thou shall not kill" out of nowhere.

In all fairness, Shepard does get out of the way and lets Garrus get Sidonis in his sights,ultimately Garrus is the one who doesn't take the shot.

[shiftylookingspacecow]

a bit off topic, i think charm and intimidate are stupid labels. Take LotSB for example. Tela Vasir takes a hostage, charm option: "i did a whole bunch of bad stuff that would make people die, you think im scared to shoot an innocent?"........what? how is that in the least bit charming? those sorts of things should totally net renegade points

[shiftylookingspacecow]

Seboist wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Seboist wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Most of them, actually. Personal opinion, of course, but I find the majority of Paragon choices to be unbearably naive and unrealistic in their effects. Renegade/Intimidate suffers from this at times as well, but Paragon Shepard's ability to Charm hardened criminals into becoming social workers (to use one example) borders on magic.

Yeah, the Helena Blake example is a theater of the absurd. The same with the charm option in Zaeed's loyalty mission where a ruthless merc who's known nothing but violence for most of his life and who lost his one chance at revenge after twenty years gets convinced in less than a minute that Shepard is a "paragon" of virtue and is "right".

I still can't get over how they made a mockery of my favorite squadmate like that....

I hated that part, Zaeeds VO right there sounded so forced,the whole mission was rather poorly executed.

The Paragon path in Zaeed's LM is as absurd as Garrus'. The latter has Paragon Shepard outright accepting Garrus' request to KILL Sidonis followed by a massacre of a whole warehouse full of mercs, a merciless beating of Harkin and then when Garrus has him in his sight Shepard starts to preach "Thou shall not kill" out of nowhere.

Well......er.....they shot first......

[Thompson family]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Your just pissed that Paragon Shepard is more of a badass in the Zaeed loyalty mission than renegade shepard.   renegade shepard is like "oh yes mr zaeed sir whatever makes you happy" meanwhile Paragon Shepard sticks a gun in Zaeed's face and let's Zaeed know who is in charge and if he is going to be on Shepard's team is going to have to follow orders just like everybody else.

Absolutely agree with this one. Shepard can either be in charge or let some guy hired by somebody else bring him to the mission under false pretenses then bully him.

[Phaedon]

Renegade? Logical?

Well, not illogical either. There are some 0.o moments for both moralities, but I wouldn't argue that either of them is more realistic.

Arguing that a morality can be more realistic, makes no sense really. Other than some unorthodox exceptions in choices here and there, paragons and renegades are essentially different sides of the same coin.

Other than the 100% versions of the morality "creeds", there aren't many logical flaws in most of the choices, regardless of morality.

[Thompson family]

An interesting perspective, Phaedon, but I'd argue that "even if you're going to hang a man, it costs nothing to be polite."

[shiftylookingspacecow]

Thompson family wrote...

An interesting perspective, Phaedon, but I'd argue that "even if you're going to hang a man, it costs nothing to be polite."

Outcome is the exact same either way

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 26 août 2011 - 09:33 .

[Zarathiel]

Thompson family wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

...  Paragon Shepard's ability to Charm hardened criminals into becoming social workers (to use one example) borders on magic.

The one I never believed is that a crime lord would confess to hiring a hit man just to get a cheaper rate on bribing a police officer -- thereby confessing to bribing a police officer in the process.

I just adopt neither R or P option on that one and keep going to "I'm a Spectre. I'll shoot you if I want."

Except that is a renegade option. You get both renegade and paragon points for doing it, but you need a very high renegade score to even attempt it. (Almost as high as resisting Morinth.)

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

The CB doesn't prove the
existence of the reapers though...shown to the council they would just
think that is how the geth got Sovereign, the advanced tech? Everyone
already knows the collectors have more advanced tech.

First off, it's clear that some information in the CB is about the Reapers. Or did you never notice that datapad that Joker gives to Shepard at the end of the game? The one that very explicitly has information about at least one Reaper on it?

Secondly, Hackett and Anderson would believe you. Together, they could potentially convince the rest of Alliance High Command into doing something. Mordin could possibly help convince the STG to to get in on the fun as well. We know STG believes in the Reapers.

And thirdly, hey, even if they don't believe in the Reapers, just saying "Hey, I have access to the base of operations of the f***ing COLLECTORS, and btw, I have evidence they used to be PROTHEANS, you want to go study some super advanced technology?" should be enough to get any government organization drooling, even one as blind and stupid as the Council. (either one, as they are both composed entirely of utter morons, unless you make Anderson a councilor.)

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Most
of them, actually. Personal opinion, of course, but I find the majority
of Paragon choices to be unbearably naive and unrealistic in their
effects. Renegade/Intimidate suffers from this at times as well, but Paragon Shepard's ability to Charm hardened criminals into becoming social workers (to use one example) borders on magic.

Yeah,
the Helena Blake example is a theater of the absurd. The same with the
charm option in Zaeed's loyalty mission where a ruthless merc who's
known nothing but violence for most of his life and who lost his one
chance at revenge after twenty years gets convinced in less than a
minute that Shepard is a "paragon" of virtue and is "right".

I still can't get over how they made a mockery of my favorite squadmate like that....

Your just pissed that Paragon Shepard is more of a badass in the Zaeed loyalty mission than renegade shepard.   renegade shepard is like "oh yes mr zaeed sir whatever makes you happy" meanwhile
Paragon Shepard sticks a gun in Zaeed's face and let's Zaeed know who
is in charge and if he is going to be on Shepard's team is going to have
to follow orders just like everybody else.

Or maybe he's pissed (and rightfully so) at the bad writng that led to his Renegade Shepard acting completely out of character in this scenario. Seriously, Renegade Shepard lays down the law with Jack, Grunt, Miranda, Jacob, and many times even TIM, but with Zaeed he's like "Sure, I'll let you dictate the terms of this mission and bring my authority into question! No problem!" That is not Renegade Shepard. That is not ANY Shepard.

Modifié par Zarathiel, 26 août 2011 - 09:42 .

[shiftylookingspacecow]

if you go with roleplay rather than caring which side you lean to, it helps a lot. think that Shepard would "lay down the law" with Zaeed? here's an idea: do it! stop being scared of getting blue or red points and just roleplay

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

When was the RENEGADE choice ever the realistic one?

From the top of my head: Bring Down the Sky, the Rachni Queen, Dr. Saleon, the Council, the Genophage, the refinery on Zorya, Keiji's graybox, Joram Talid, Sidonis, Ronald Taylor, the Patriarch, Aresh, Oriana and publically unveiling Rael'Zorah's crime.

And possibly the pro-Cerberus choices as well, depending on your perspective.

* BDTS -- yes, I've done the renegade repeatedly on this. 90% of the time I turned him over to the SA for them to extract intel.
* Rachni Queen -- no. let her live.
* Dr. Saleon -- the scientist was insane and a murderer. He also was slippery and got away. Go for it Garrus.
* The Council -- no. save them.
* The Genophage -- no. Let Maelon set up a clinic and do some good work. Keep the research.
* The refinery -- how else were you going to get that AR upgrade? And if you're playing on INSANE you're stupid not to let the refinery burn because you don't get enough upgrades before Horizon. Otherwise save the refinery workers. Zaeed goes along with Shepard because the other choice is to burn.
* Keiji's Greybox -- destroy it. Could implicate the SA in a bad way to the council and reflect bad on humanity.
* Joram Talid -- used the SPECTRE status with Kelham's atty. Stopped assassination. Perhaps Talid will have second thoughts about being anti-human since he owes humans his life.
* Sidonis -- Go for it Garrus. He caused the deaths of your squad. Debt repaid.
* Ronald Taylor -- let the islanders handle it. Don't let Jacob shoot him. Don't shoot him yourself. He'll get what's coming to him.
* Patriarch -- paragon makes more sense and could give you a little leverage with Aria in the future.
* Aresh -- Let Jack feel mercy for something for a change. He's not going to restart the facility because you're going to blow it up.
* Publically revealing Rael's crime? -- It would destroy Tali's name and for what? Besides you have the research data, and Xen gets the data anyway.
* Oriana -- Niket got what was coming to him. Loyalty is the only thing that comes before family.

Shepard will get what's coming to her. We all get what's coming to us.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 26 août 2011 - 09:49 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

The Reapers crushed Earth. My assumption — and it's only that — is that TIM wants the other major species home worlds at least as damaged as humanity's before turning on them.

For instance, does TIM want a galaxy dominated by Quarians or Geth? Hardly.

If that is the case why can't my Shepard take his side? My Shepard had no trouble sacrificing the Council or blowing up the Heretics. 

You don't fit into TIM's plans, your services are no longer required.

[Thompson family]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

The Reapers crushed Earth. My assumption — and it's only that — is that TIM wants the other major species home worlds at least as damaged as humanity's before turning on them.

For instance, does TIM want a galaxy dominated by Quarians or Geth? Hardly.

If that is the case why can't my Shepard take his side? My Shepard had no trouble sacrificing the Council or blowing up the Heretics. 

You don't fit into TIM's plans, your services are no longer required.

H_T's right. In addition, this plan is very risky and will cost billions of human lives on Earth, even if it succeeds. Remember that Anderson's still  on Earth leading resistance.

Still, you do make the point that some people could still adopt Cerberus' goal, so there is probably more to it than that even if I'm going in the right direction here.

[Zarathiel]

shiftylookingspacecow wrote...

if you go with roleplay rather than caring which side you lean to, it helps a lot. think that Shepard would "lay down the law" with Zaeed? here's an idea: do it! stop being scared of getting blue or red points and just roleplay

It would be easier to do this if the Intimidate/Charm options weren't tied to how many Paragon/Renegade points you have. Especially since you have to have A LOT of points to Intimidate Kelham with your Spectre status, choose Morinth over Samara, or tell Vasir off without shooting her hostage.

I've noticed it's especially hard for Renegades to max out their bars all the way (even after completing the Suicice Mission, taking a "+100% Paragon/Renegade" class specialization and importing a fully Renegade character from ME1) without taking every available "complete d**k" choice in conversations. Or just using Gibbed's Save Editor and changing your values to whatever you want in the beginning of the game.

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


* Ronald Taylor -- let the islanders handle it. Don't let Jacob shoot him. Don't shoot him yourself. He'll get what's coming to him.

There is no option for you or Jacob to shoot him. You Leave Behind a Pistol instead.

Modifié par Zarathiel, 26 août 2011 - 10:07 .

[Zarathiel]

Edit: I HATE how close together the "Quote" and "Edit" links are.

Modifié par Zarathiel, 26 août 2011 - 10:07 .