951 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

Mad180 wrote...

I agree with your friend in part. I don't think all Reaper tech indoctrinates but I do believe it won't do any good. The Reapers have been havesting sentient species for millions of years. I'm sure other species studied the Reapers also
but in the end they were defeated. Knowledge is power and the Reapers know more about their tech than we do. By using it we develop along their path. We need to make our on path. That is the only way the defeat the Reapers.

The fallacy with your thinking here of course is that we're not keeping the base to make Reapers; we're keeping it to learn more about what they are, how they work, any weaknesses that may be exploited. Also, there were probably plenty of species that didn't bother to try to learn their enemy and they were also wiped out, so this reasoning really doesn't strengthen your case.

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 août 2011 - 08:19 .

[Homebound]

when that krogan weyrloc dude was talkin too much and when that batarian was workin too hard.

[Mad180]

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

I agree with your friend in part. I don't think all Reaper tech indoctrinates but I do believe it won't do any good. The Reapers have been havesting sentient species for millions of years. I'm sure other species studied the Reapers also
but in the end they were defeated. Knowledge is power and the Reapers know more about their tech than we do. By using it we develop along their path. We need to make our on path. That is the only way the defeat the Reapers.

The fallacy with your thinking here of course is that we're not keeping the base to make Reapers; we're keeping it to learn more about what they are, how they work, any weaknesses that may be exploited. Also, there were probably plenty of species that didn't bother to try to learn their enemy and they were also wiped out, so this reasoning really doesn't strengthen your case.

No the fallacy with your thinking is that you don't know what TIM plans to do with the base. TIM has the base not you. I will say that you're right we do need to know their weakness but who's to say that studying them is the only way. There are other species still alive that the Reapers didn't kill maybe they have information we can use. Or maybe the Protheans left more things for us to find.

[marshalleck]

Mad180 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

I agree with your friend in part. I don't think all Reaper tech indoctrinates but I do believe it won't do any good. The Reapers have been havesting sentient species for millions of years. I'm sure other species studied the Reapers also
but in the end they were defeated. Knowledge is power and the Reapers know more about their tech than we do. By using it we develop along their path. We need to make our on path. That is the only way the defeat the Reapers.

The fallacy with your thinking here of course is that we're not keeping the base to make Reapers; we're keeping it to learn more about what they are, how they work, any weaknesses that may be exploited. Also, there were probably plenty of species that didn't bother to try to learn their enemy and they were also wiped out, so this reasoning really doesn't strengthen your case.

No the fallacy with your thinking is that you don't know what TIM plans to do with the base. TIM has the base not you. I will say that you're right we do need to know their weakness but who's to say that studying them is the only way. There are other species still alive that the Reapers didn't kill maybe they have information we can use. Or maybe the Protheans left more things for us to find.

All throughout ME2 TIM gives no reason to believe he doesn't want the base for the intel it holds. The man is all about knowing his enemies' secrets. It's hardly a leap of faith to assume that given access to the Collector base, TIM will choose to study it.

[Mad180]

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

I agree with your friend in part. I don't think all Reaper tech indoctrinates but I do believe it won't do any good. The Reapers have been havesting sentient species for millions of years. I'm sure other species studied the Reapers also
but in the end they were defeated. Knowledge is power and the Reapers know more about their tech than we do. By using it we develop along their path. We need to make our on path. That is the only way the defeat the Reapers.

The fallacy with your thinking here of course is that we're not keeping the base to make Reapers; we're keeping it to learn more about what they are, how they work, any weaknesses that may be exploited. Also, there were probably plenty of species that didn't bother to try to learn their enemy and they were also wiped out, so this reasoning really doesn't strengthen your case.

No the fallacy with your thinking is that you don't know what TIM plans to do with the base. TIM has the base not you. I will say that you're right we do need to know their weakness but who's to say that studying them is the only way. There are other species still alive that the Reapers didn't kill maybe they have information we can use. Or maybe the Protheans left more things for us to find.

All throughout ME2 TIM gives no reason to believe he doesn't want the base for the intel it holds. The man is all about knowing his enemies' secrets. It's hardly a leap of faith to assume that given access to the Collector base, TIM will choose to study it.

Yeah all throughtout ME2 TIM gives no reason for a lot of things. I have no doubt he wants to study it and study it he will. What he does with what he finds is the question.

[sorentoft]

wiggles89 wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

By destroying technology given to them by the Old Machines humanity is breaking the cycle.

What cycle, the cycle of galactic genocide? Because that's the only cycle I'm interested in breaking and I don't see how I break it without studying stuff like the Collector Base.

Nazara stated that by using the technology of the Mass Relays you develop along the paths they desire. Their consensus is that they brought order to the chaos of organic evolution, one truth blinds you to alternatives. By creating your own technology you essentially break free from their plans.

[sorentoft]

Saphra Deden wrote...

There is no reasoning with Legion fanatics.

Our analysis of organic humour suggests an 87.3% chance that you expect us to respond with, "My head is a flashlight, your argument is invalid."

[marshalleck]

Mad180 wrote...

Yeah all throughtout ME2 TIM gives no reason for a lot of things. I have no doubt he wants to study it and study it he will. What he does with what he finds is the question.

That's actually not the question at all. In ME2 he did everything he could to ensure Shepard's success against the Collectors and Reapers. It's reasonable to expect whatever useful intel could be gleaned from the base would be passed on to Shepard and TIM's connections in the Systems Alliance. This is of course not taking into account imposisble foreknowledge of ME3.

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 août 2011 - 09:04 .

[Mad180]

Saphra Deden wrote...

There is no reasoning with Legion fanatics.

TIM fanatics are more reasonable? 

Modifié par Mad180, 28 août 2011 - 09:05 .

[marshalleck]

Mad180 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

There is no reasoning with Legion fanatics.

TIM fanatics more reasonable? 

Sure. You just have to present a reasonable case, which few seem to be capable of. The usual arguments typically degenerate to neo-Luddism, paranoia, and accusations of N.azi sympathies within a few sentences.

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 août 2011 - 09:06 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Honestly I think saving the base is the bigger leap of faith.

Then you're insane. I am basing my gamble on a physical object that can be analyzed by people who have proven capable of doing exactly that in the past.

Your are basing your gamble on... what exactly? You've got nothing.

Saphra being an ass?

Good to know everything is normal here in our lovely wretched hive.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

There is no reasoning with Legion fanatics.

TIM fanatics more reasonable? 

Sure. You just have to present a reasonable case, which few seem to be capable of. The usual arguments typically degenerate to paranoia and accusations of N.azi sympathies within a few sentences.

Paragon: You're as xenophobic douche!
Renagade: You're an ovely idealistic fool!

Paragade:....Uh guys...

Paragon: You maloderous troll!!!
Renadage: You sanctimonious prig!!!!

Renagon:...I don't think they're going to listen.
Paragon:...Killing blue suns mercs?
Renagon: Killing blue suns mercs. *they walk out*

Renagade: YOUR LOGIC IS FAULTY AND STUPID!!!!
Paragon: YOUR LACK OF EMPATHY LEADS ME TO BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE MAJOR TRUST ISSUES!!!!!

*Moral of the story* Don't ever stick with one style dogmatically when Paragade and Renagon are so much fun.

[Mad180]

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Yeah all throughtout ME2 TIM gives no reason for a lot of things. I have no doubt he wants to study it and study it he will. What he does with what he finds is the question.

That's actually not the question at all. In ME2 he did everything he could to ensure Shepard's success against the Collectors and Reapers. It's reasonable to expect whatever useful intel could be gleaned from the base would be passed on to Shepard and TIM's connections in the Systems Alliance. This is of course not taking into account imposisble foreknowledge of ME3.

Oh really! Then can I borrow your copy of ME2 because in my copy all he did was lie to me so he could get his hands on that Collectors base.

[marshalleck]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

There is no reasoning with Legion fanatics.

TIM fanatics more reasonable? 

Sure. You just have to present a reasonable case, which few seem to be capable of. The usual arguments typically degenerate to paranoia and accusations of N.azi sympathies within a few sentences.

Paragon: You're as xenophobic douche!
Renagade: You're an ovely idealistic fool!

Paragade:....Uh guys...

Paragon: You maloderous troll!!!
Renadage: You sanctimonious prig!!!!

Renagon:...I don't think they're going to listen.
Paragon:...Killing blue suns mercs?
Renagon: Killing blue suns mercs. *they walk out*

Renagade: YOUR LOGIC IS FAULTY AND STUPID!!!!
Paragon: YOUR LACK OF EMPATHY LEADS ME TO BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE MAJOR TRUST ISSUES!!!!!

*Moral of the story* Don't ever stick with one style dogmatically when Paragade and Renagon are so much fun.

Paragade and renegon are weak-willed noncommittal fools. Pick a side, this is war.

Edit: respect for using "maloderous" (sic) and "sanctimonious" in the same post. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 août 2011 - 09:14 .

[marshalleck]

Mad180 wrote...

Oh really! Then can I borrow your copy of ME2 because in my copy all he did was lie to me so he could get his hands on that Collectors base.

Sorry, playing my copy of the game won't resolve the problem you have of ignoring what's actually said in the game in favor of your paranoid imagination.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

marshalleck wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

There is no reasoning with Legion fanatics.

TIM fanatics more reasonable? 

Sure. You just have to present a reasonable case, which few seem to be capable of. The usual arguments typically degenerate to paranoia and accusations of N.azi sympathies within a few sentences.

Paragon: You're as xenophobic douche!
Renagade: You're an ovely idealistic fool!

Paragade:....Uh guys...

Paragon: You maloderous troll!!!
Renadage: You sanctimonious prig!!!!

Renagon:...I don't think they're going to listen.
Paragon:...Killing blue suns mercs?
Renagon: Killing blue suns mercs. *they walk out*

Renagade: YOUR LOGIC IS FAULTY AND STUPID!!!!
Paragon: YOUR LACK OF EMPATHY LEADS ME TO BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE MAJOR TRUST ISSUES!!!!!

*Moral of the story* Don't ever stick with one style dogmatically when Paragade and Renagon are so much fun.

Paragade and renegon are weak-willed noncommittal fools. Pick a side, this is war.

Edit: respect for using "maloderous" (sic) and "sanctimonious" in the same post. 

Why pick a side when you can comfortably watch the dogmatic fools kill each other?

Edit: Thank you.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 28 août 2011 - 09:18 .

[Mad180]

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Oh really! Then can I borrow your copy of ME2 because in my copy all he did was lie to me so he could get his hands on that Collectors base.

Sorry, playing my copy of the game won't resolve the problem you have of ignoring what's actually said in the game in favor of your paranoid imagination.

Ok so ignoring Cerberus past is better. I will use my imagination to believe that because he gave me a ship and crew he's the good guy. Please, I sorry but this game is about Shepard and how he/she will save the galaxy not TIM. Yes we stopped the Collectors but the Reapers... I think not. I don't even think we slowed them down.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Mad180 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Oh really! Then can I borrow your copy of ME2 because in my copy all he did was lie to me so he could get his hands on that Collectors base.

Sorry, playing my copy of the game won't resolve the problem you have of ignoring what's actually said in the game in favor of your paranoid imagination.

Ok so ignoring Cerberus past is better. I will use my imagination to believe that because he gave me a ship and crew he's the good guy. Please, I sorry but this game is about Shepard and how he/she will save the galaxy not TIM. Yes we stopped the Collectors but the Reapers... I think not. I don't even think we slowed them down.

*towards the end of the suicide mission*
Harbinger:...YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!
Shepard: U mad bro?
Harbinger:......A LITTLE.
Shepard: TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!! *rides off in the Normandy*
Harbinger:...*sniffles* EVERY DAMN TIME WE HAVE A GOOD PLAN THAT DAMN SHEPARD HAS TO GO AND RUIN IT!!!!!
Ravager: YOU HAVE FAILED...MY TURN!

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 28 août 2011 - 09:29 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Well this is fun.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Well this is fun.

It most certainly is.

[marshalleck]

Mad180 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Oh really! Then can I borrow your copy of ME2 because in my copy all he did was lie to me so he could get his hands on that Collectors base.

Sorry, playing my copy of the game won't resolve the problem you have of ignoring what's actually said in the game in favor of your paranoid imagination.

Ok so ignoring Cerberus past is better. I will use my imagination to believe that because he gave me a ship and crew he's the good guy. Please, I sorry but this game is about Shepard and how he/she will save the galaxy not TIM. Yes we stopped the Collectors but the Reapers... I think not. I don't even think we slowed them down.

I'm ignoring nothing. I'm fully aware of Cerberus' history. I'm also fully aware of the FACT that without their support, the Collectors would likely not have been stopped in ME2, and whatever scheme the Reapers were cooking up would likely have seen completion. 

Does it bother you so much that I'm willing to give TIM credit when and where it's due?

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 août 2011 - 09:34 .