951 réponses à ce sujet

[KotorEffect3]

I did Virmire today, it was fun

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Oh really! Then can I borrow your copy of ME2 because in my copy all he did was lie to me so he could get his hands on that Collectors base.

Sorry, playing my copy of the game won't resolve the problem you have of ignoring what's actually said in the game in favor of your paranoid imagination.

Ok so ignoring Cerberus past is better. I will use my imagination to believe that because he gave me a ship and crew he's the good guy. Please, I sorry but this game is about Shepard and how he/she will save the galaxy not TIM. Yes we stopped the Collectors but the Reapers... I think not. I don't even think we slowed them down.

I'm ignoring nothing. I'm fully aware of Cerberus' history. I'm also fully aware of the FACT that without their support, the Collectors would likely not have been stopped in ME2, and whatever scheme the Reapers were cooking up would likely have seen completion. 

Does it bother you so much that I'm willing to give TIM credit when and where it's due?

I actually think the main problem is that people either hate TIM no matter what he does over anything the "TIM ate sugar, therefore sugar is evuuuul!!!!" factor.
And many others overlook all the bad he has done and praise him to the skies.

And then there's people like me who appreciate the help he has given and condemn the messed up sh*t that he's done.

[sorentoft]

Saphra Deden wrote...

No, I just want you to follow your own advice. I want you to play ME2 and not take any upgrades because they involve taking technology from other races instead of inventing it yourself.

I want you to stop using mass relays because you did not build them.

I want you to stop using element zero cores to fuel your mass effect drives because you did not invent the technology, instead stealing it from the Protheans.

I want you to refuse using EDI on the Collector ship and Collector base (making the game impossible to complete!) because she is based on Reaper tech.


Legion is a moron. His philosophy is bunk. If you followed it you'd totally fail to stop the Collectors much less the Reapers.

To date our victories over the Reapers have been the result of studying their technology, not discarding it .

Not following the game mechanics of a game seems illogical.

The consensus given when destroying the Collector facility was that humanity and the rest of organic life was better off making their own future, differing from the path put down by the Old Machines. Given the data available this was deemed the preferable option. In addition the success rate of Cerberus seems to not be favourable.

Renegade make a gamble with Cerberus, but remains on the path desired by the Old Machines.
Paragon has chosen their own path, but without chance of aid from salvaged Collector technology.

Both are viable options.

Modifié par sorentoft, 28 août 2011 - 09:41 .

[KevShep]

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Yeah all throughtout ME2 TIM gives no reason for a lot of things. I have no doubt he wants to study it and study it he will. What he does with what he finds is the question.

That's actually not the question at all. In ME2 he did everything he could to ensure Shepard's success against the Collectors and Reapers. It's reasonable to expect whatever useful intel could be gleaned from the base would be passed on to Shepard and TIM's connections in the Systems Alliance. This is of course not taking into account imposisble foreknowledge of ME3.

You have to take into account that Cerberus is still an unknown to the player. Nothing is known as a fact about cerberus at this point! This means that there is a major ME3 spoiler revolving around the shadows of cerberus. Those that support Cerberus might get the short end of the stick, meaning...... that if they were not hidden in shadow then the player would have a definite reason to not support them. However they are in the shadows making the player make a hard decision if to trust TIM or not. 

Who says that cerberus is not tricking Shepard into working for the reapers without having to damage him through indoctrination. Think about this.......In ME2 it appears to be that shepard is trying to stop the reapers. We know that in ME3 cerberus is working for the reapers. If this is the case then shepard might be unknowingly working for the reapers.

I believe that the collector base was not originaly reaper design. The collectors are the protheans repurposed. I think that the collectors are actually prothean survivors who after the reaper invasion developed a relay(Omega 4) and built a station away from the eyes of the reapers. However this plan backfires and the protheans get found out and indoctrinated.

The reapers use them instead of killing them in order to make a human reaper. Something does not go right and the reapers need a non indoctrinated race to do it, because the collectors are basically husks and are incapable. This is were cerberus comes in! Cerberus is allied with the reapers and the reapers need them to build one so they trick Shepard into believing that the collectors are the enemy and by stopping them he then stops the reapers. This is not the case however.

Cerberus gets rid of the collectors so Cerberus can take over the operation that the collectors could not do. Cerberus is now going to make a human reaper for the reapers. Cerberus is working for the reapers in ME3!

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Edit: I don't know how this fits,but I think it fits in here somewhere.






bowchickawowow.


Also,you can't use the whole ME3 TIM is a bigger douche argument,her royal highness will attack your meta-gaming.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 28 août 2011 - 09:42 .

[Mad180]

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Oh really! Then can I borrow your copy of ME2 because in my copy all he did was lie to me so he could get his hands on that Collectors base.

Sorry, playing my copy of the game won't resolve the problem you have of ignoring what's actually said in the game in favor of your paranoid imagination.

Ok so ignoring Cerberus past is better. I will use my imagination to believe that because he gave me a ship and crew he's the good guy. Please, I sorry but this game is about Shepard and how he/she will save the galaxy not TIM. Yes we stopped the Collectors but the Reapers... I think not. I don't even think we slowed them down.

I'm ignoring nothing. I'm fully aware of Cerberus' history. I'm also fully aware of the FACT that without their support, the Collectors would likely not have been stopped in ME2, and whatever scheme the Reapers were cooking up would likely have seen completion. 

Does it bother you so much that I'm willing to give TIM credit when and where it's due?

No it doesn't bother me at all and I agree and will give credit to TIM for his help in stopping the Collectors. But in the end I still don't trust him and I'm still not giving him the Collector's base.

[sorentoft]

KevShep wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Yeah all throughtout ME2 TIM gives no reason for a lot of things. I have no doubt he wants to study it and study it he will. What he does with what he finds is the question.

That's actually not the question at all. In ME2 he did everything he could to ensure Shepard's success against the Collectors and Reapers. It's reasonable to expect whatever useful intel could be gleaned from the base would be passed on to Shepard and TIM's connections in the Systems Alliance. This is of course not taking into account imposisble foreknowledge of ME3.

You have to take into account that Cerberus is still an unknown to the player. Nothing is known as a fact about cerberus at this point! This means that there is a major ME3 spoiler revolving around the shadows of cerberus. Those that support Cerberus might get the short end of the stick, meaning...... that if they were not hidden in shadow then the player would have a definite reason to not support them. However they are in the shadows making the player make a hard decision if to trust TIM or not. 

Who says that cerberus is not tricking Shepard into working for the reapers without having to damage him through indoctrination. Think about this.......In ME2 it appears to be that shepard is trying to stop the reapers. We know that in ME3 cerberus is working for the reapers. If this is the case then shepard might be unknowingly working for the reapers.

I believe that the collector base was not originaly reaper design. The collectors are the protheans repurposed. I think that the collectors are actually prothean survivors who after the reaper invasion developed a relay(Omega 4) and built a station away from the eyes of the reapers. However this plan backfires and the protheans get found out and indoctrinated.

The reapers use them instead of killing them in order to make a human reaper. Something does not go right and the reapers need a non indoctrinated race to do it, because the collectors are basically husks and are incapable. This is were cerberus comes in! Cerberus is allied with the reapers and the reapers need them to build one so they trick Shepard into believing that the collectors are the enemy and by stopping them he then stops the reapers. This is not the case however.

Cerberus gets rid of the collectors so Cerberus can take over the operation that the collectors could not do. Cerberus is now going to make a human reaper for the reapers. Cerberus is working for the reapers in ME3!

Seems improbable.

[marshalleck]

KevShep wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Yeah all throughtout ME2 TIM gives no reason for a lot of things. I have no doubt he wants to study it and study it he will. What he does with what he finds is the question.

That's actually not the question at all. In ME2 he did everything he could to ensure Shepard's success against the Collectors and Reapers. It's reasonable to expect whatever useful intel could be gleaned from the base would be passed on to Shepard and TIM's connections in the Systems Alliance. This is of course not taking into account imposisble foreknowledge of ME3.

You have to take into account that Cerberus is still an unknown to the player. Nothing is known as a fact about cerberus at this point! This means that there is a major ME3 spoiler revolving around the shadows of cerberus. Those that support Cerberus might get the short end of the stick, meaning...... that if they were not hidden in shadow then the player would have a definite reason to not support them. However they are in the shadows making the player make a hard decision if to trust TIM or not. 

Who says that cerberus is not tricking Shepard into working for the reapers without having to damage him through indoctrination. Think about this.......In ME2 it appears to be that shepard is trying to stop the reapers. We know that in ME3 cerberus is working for the reapers. If this is the case then shepard might be unknowingly working for the reapers.

I believe that the collector base was not originaly reaper design. The collectors are the protheans repurposed. I think that the collectors are actually prothean survivors who after the reaper invasion developed a relay(Omega 4) and built a station away from the eyes of the reapers. However this plan backfires and the protheans get found out and indoctrinated.

The reapers use them instead of killing them in order to make a human reaper. Something does not go right and the reapers need a non indoctrinated race to do it, because the collectors are basically husks and are incapable. This is were cerberus comes in! Cerberus is allied with the reapers and the reapers need them to build one so they trick Shepard into believing that the collectors are the enemy and by stopping them he then stops the reapers. This is not the case however.

Cerberus gets rid of the collectors so Cerberus can take over the operation that the collectors could not do. Cerberus is now going to make a human reaper for the reapers. Cerberus is working for the reapers in ME3!

LIke I said earlier. Paranoia. This sort of elaborate "so-and-so is out to get me" thing doesn't really convinve me, in light of all the ways TIM has shown that his actions are consistent with his beliefs. And again. I am aware that Cerberus are apparently an enemy in ME3, but I'm not considering it because my Shepard is not precognitive.

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 août 2011 - 09:45 .

[sorentoft]

Saphra Deden wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

Not following the game mechanics of a game seems illogical.

Oh no no. Stick to your guns, kid.

There is nothining stopping you from ignoring the upgrades. Use them or don't. However if you use them, accept the fact that you are defying Legion's philosophy. You have to ignore his philosophy if you want to succeed in the best way (or at all).

You see there is an important fact that Legion is missing and it is this: when you master another technology, whether you invented it or not, it becomes your own.

Mastering it means understanding it. That means you can better appraise it, improve upon it, or determine if you need something better.

This is what we've done with Reaper tech so far. It's what the Protheans did too. They didn't just use mass relays, they studied them and then began replicating the technology on their own. This paid off in a big way.

It was the same with Cerberus and EDI and to a lesser extent the IFF.


Your argument has no weight what-so-ever. Legion's way of thinking is proven to be very very wrong by the rest of the plot.

Your statement is illogical. Geth stated that they found it preferable to achieve your future on your own terms. Geth are patient, speed does not factor into it.

We suggest you study:





Maybe future exchanges will be more profitable.

Modifié par sorentoft, 28 août 2011 - 10:01 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Mad180 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

I agree with your friend in part. I don't think all Reaper tech indoctrinates but I do believe it won't do any good. The Reapers have been havesting sentient species for millions of years. I'm sure other species studied the Reapers also
but in the end they were defeated. Knowledge is power and the Reapers know more about their tech than we do. By using it we develop along their path. We need to make our on path. That is the only way the defeat the Reapers.

The fallacy with your thinking here of course is that we're not keeping the base to make Reapers; we're keeping it to learn more about what they are, how they work, any weaknesses that may be exploited. Also, there were probably plenty of species that didn't bother to try to learn their enemy and they were also wiped out, so this reasoning really doesn't strengthen your case.

No the fallacy with your thinking is that you don't know what TIM plans to do with the base. TIM has the base not you. I will say that you're right we do need to know their weakness but who's to say that studying them is the only way. There are other species still alive that the Reapers didn't kill maybe they have information we can use. Or maybe the Protheans left more things for us to find.

That's a very big maybe that hinges on absolutely nothing but blind faith.

do you know of any race that the reapers didn't kill? Do you know of any Prothean artifiacts that are proomising?

You would throw away an EXISTING solution, and insted relay on hope that another solution will magicly present itself. So:
- you hope that there IS anything else out there to find  (and dont' evne have a hint that there might be or where to look)
- you're aslo hope that you will find it before the reapers come.
- you're also hoping that it comes close to the CB in terms of usefulness.
- you're also hoping that with LESS time to study it (since you would find it after the CB) you'd get just as much or anything at all.

Excuse me while I laugh at your f**** up priprities and silly logic.

[Mad180]

Saphra Deden wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

Not following the game mechanics of a game seems illogical.

Oh no no. Stick to your guns, kid.

There is nothining stopping you from ignoring the upgrades. Use them or don't. However if you use them, accept the fact that you are defying Legion's philosophy. You have to ignore his philosophy if you want to succeed in the best way (or at all).

You see there is an important fact that Legion is missing and it is this: when you master another technology, whether you invented it or not, it becomes your own.

Mastering it means understanding it. That means you can better appraise it, improve upon it, or determine if you need something better.

This is what we've done with Reaper tech so far. It's what the Protheans did too. They didn't just use mass relays, they studied them and then began replicating the technology on their own. This paid off in a big way.

It was the same with Cerberus and EDI and to a lesser extent the IFF.


Your argument has no weight what-so-ever. Legion's way of thinking is proven to be very very wrong by the rest of the plot.

Cerberus uses Reaper tech even before understanding it. I've never heard TIM say he wants to study the tech so he can make his own. He wants to use it, the IFF is a great example.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Honestly I think saving the base is the bigger leap of faith.

Then you're insane. I am basing my gamble on a physical object that can be analyzed by people who have proven capable of doing exactly that in the past.

Your are basing your gamble on... what exactly? You've got nothing.

Saphra being an ass?

Good to know everything is normal here in our lovely wretched hive.

I noticed you didn't actually adress the issue/question....

[marshalleck]

Mad180 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

Not following the game mechanics of a game seems illogical.

Oh no no. Stick to your guns, kid.

There is nothining stopping you from ignoring the upgrades. Use them or don't. However if you use them, accept the fact that you are defying Legion's philosophy. You have to ignore his philosophy if you want to succeed in the best way (or at all).

You see there is an important fact that Legion is missing and it is this: when you master another technology, whether you invented it or not, it becomes your own.

Mastering it means understanding it. That means you can better appraise it, improve upon it, or determine if you need something better.

This is what we've done with Reaper tech so far. It's what the Protheans did too. They didn't just use mass relays, they studied them and then began replicating the technology on their own. This paid off in a big way.

It was the same with Cerberus and EDI and to a lesser extent the IFF.


Your argument has no weight what-so-ever. Legion's way of thinking is proven to be very very wrong by the rest of the plot.

Cerberus uses Reaper tech even before understanding it. I've never heard TIM say he wants to study the tech so he can make his own. He wants to use it, the IFF is a great example.

How exactly do you think TIM is going to go and make his own Reapers? The fact that he won't be able to immediately start crankign out Reapers without studying the base first aside, the process requires organics. Lots of organics. Hundreds of thousands, if not a million. That presents a logistical challenge that Cerberus alone is not capable of meeting. I think your fear is unfounded--even if we assume TIM wants to, it's very likely well beyond his ability. 

Studying the base is still viable for his organization, however. 

[Mad180]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

I agree with your friend in part. I don't think all Reaper tech indoctrinates but I do believe it won't do any good. The Reapers have been havesting sentient species for millions of years. I'm sure other species studied the Reapers also
but in the end they were defeated. Knowledge is power and the Reapers know more about their tech than we do. By using it we develop along their path. We need to make our on path. That is the only way the defeat the Reapers.

The fallacy with your thinking here of course is that we're not keeping the base to make Reapers; we're keeping it to learn more about what they are, how they work, any weaknesses that may be exploited. Also, there were probably plenty of species that didn't bother to try to learn their enemy and they were also wiped out, so this reasoning really doesn't strengthen your case.

No the fallacy with your thinking is that you don't know what TIM plans to do with the base. TIM has the base not you. I will say that you're right we do need to know their weakness but who's to say that studying them is the only way. There are other species still alive that the Reapers didn't kill maybe they have information we can use. Or maybe the Protheans left more things for us to find.

That's a very big maybe that hinges on absolutely nothing but blind faith.

do you know of any race that the reapers didn't kill? Do you know of any Prothean artifiacts that are proomising?

You would throw away an EXISTING solution, and insted relay on hope that another solution will magicly present itself. So:
- you hope that there IS anything else out there to find  (and dont' evne have a hint that there might be or where to look)
- you're aslo hope that you will find it before the reapers come.
- you're also hoping that it comes close to the CB in terms of usefulness.
- you're also hoping that with LESS time to study it (since you would find it after the CB) you'd get just as much or anything at all.

Excuse me while I laugh at your f**** up priprities and silly logic.

The Collector base IS NOT an existing solution and also a MAYBE. Your trust in TIM is also blind faith. The Thorian (dead now) was not killed by the Reapers. There's a good chance the Protheans left more behind. You hope TIM will find something useful before the Reapers come. The Collector base could be useless. Don't know what I will find if anything at all. I do know TIM doesn't have a Collector base to use against me or the galaxy.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Honestly I think saving the base is the bigger leap of faith.

Then you're insane. I am basing my gamble on a physical object that can be analyzed by people who have proven capable of doing exactly that in the past.

Your are basing your gamble on... what exactly? You've got nothing.

Saphra being an ass?

Good to know everything is normal here in our lovely wretched hive.

I noticed you didn't actually adress the issue/question....

Absolutely no point in doing so.
Saphra is set in his ways.
I'm set in mine.
We'd never actually convince each other of anything.


If there were a hypothetical scenario in which there could actually be a reasonable debate about these topics I'd gladly join in. Because I've always loved testing my wits against others.

But that's not what happens here.

[Mad180]

marshalleck wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

Not following the game mechanics of a game seems illogical.

Oh no no. Stick to your guns, kid.

There is nothining stopping you from ignoring the upgrades. Use them or don't. However if you use them, accept the fact that you are defying Legion's philosophy. You have to ignore his philosophy if you want to succeed in the best way (or at all).

You see there is an important fact that Legion is missing and it is this: when you master another technology, whether you invented it or not, it becomes your own.

Mastering it means understanding it. That means you can better appraise it, improve upon it, or determine if you need something better.

This is what we've done with Reaper tech so far. It's what the Protheans did too. They didn't just use mass relays, they studied them and then began replicating the technology on their own. This paid off in a big way.

It was the same with Cerberus and EDI and to a lesser extent the IFF.


Your argument has no weight what-so-ever. Legion's way of thinking is proven to be very very wrong by the rest of the plot.

Cerberus uses Reaper tech even before understanding it. I've never heard TIM say he wants to study the tech so he can make his own. He wants to use it, the IFF is a great example.

How exactly do you think TIM is going to go and make his own Reapers? The fact that he won't be able to immediately start crankign out Reapers without studying the base first aside, the process requires organics. Lots of organics. Hundreds of thousands, if not a million. That presents a logistical challenge that Cerberus alone is not capable of meeting. I think your fear is unfounded--even if we assume TIM wants to, it's very likely well beyond his ability. 

Studying the base is still viable for his organization, however. 

So I'm suppose to believe TIM is above putting people in the base to see how it work.  Haha please... don't make me laugh.

[KevShep]

marshalleck wrote...

LIke I said earlier. Paranoia. This sort of elaborate "so-and-so is out to get me" thing doesn't really convinve me, in light of all the ways TIM has shown that his actions are consistent with his beliefs. And again. I am aware that Cerberus are apparently an enemy in ME3, but I'm not considering it because my Shepard is not precognitive.

The just of what I meant was that cerberus and TIM are an unknown. Dont put all of your trust in a man that for all we know might be the bad guy. Untill you know for a fact dont leap before you look.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Mad180 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
That's a very big maybe that hinges on absolutely nothing but blind faith.

do you know of any race that the reapers didn't kill? Do you know of any Prothean artifiacts that are proomising?

You would throw away an EXISTING solution, and insted relay on hope that another solution will magicly present itself. So:
- you hope that there IS anything else out there to find  (and dont' evne have a hint that there might be or where to look)
- you're aslo hope that you will find it before the reapers come.
- you're also hoping that it comes close to the CB in terms of usefulness.
- you're also hoping that with LESS time to study it (since you would find it after the CB) you'd get just as much or anything at all.

Excuse me while I laugh at your f**** up priprities and silly logic.

The Collector base IS NOT an existing solution and also a MAYBE. Your trust in TIM is also blind faith. The Thorian (dead now) was not killed by the Reapers. There's a good chance the Protheans left more behind. You hope TIM will find something useful before the Reapers come. The Collector base could be useless. Don't know what I will find if anything at all. I do know TIM doesn't have a Collector base to use against me or the galaxy.

Yes it is. ti's there. It exists. It's a physical object proven to exist. It's existance is a FACT. The existance of reaper tech in it is a FACT.
Existance of any other source of anti-reaper tech is NOT.

No, I trust TIM because of his past record. EVERYTHING Cererus did follows a pattern (strengthen humanity). Everything TIM did in ME2 was agasint the Repaers & Collectors. It makes perfect sense for him to use the base agaisnt the reapers - reapers will destroy humantiy AND him. That's not blind faith. That's faith based on past fact and reasonable assumption.

On the other hand, what reason you have to mis-trust him? Because he's Cerberus? Glowy eyes? Your trust in his evilness is blind faith, as you really got nothing solid to base it on.

So yeah..your logic is rubbish

[Lotion Soronarr]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
Then you're insane. I am basing my gamble on a physical object that can be analyzed by people who have proven capable of doing exactly that in the past.

Your are basing your gamble on... what exactly? You've got nothing.

Saphra being an ass?

Good to know everything is normal here in our lovely wretched hive.

I noticed you didn't actually adress the issue/question....

Absolutely no point in doing so.
Saphra is set in his ways.
I'm set in mine.
We'd never actually convince each other of anything.


If there were a hypothetical scenario in which there could actually be a reasonable debate about these topics I'd gladly join in. Because I've always loved testing my wits against others.

But that's not what happens here.

Ehh..so you're avoiding answering the question wiht the old "this is not a reasonable debate, it's a waste of time to answer it". Dude, in the time it took you to type the above, you could have just answered it.

But we all know you're tying to avoid answering it, cause you don't have a good answer, right?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Mad180 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
How exactly do you think TIM is going to go and make his own Reapers? The fact that he won't be able to immediately start crankign out Reapers without studying the base first aside, the process requires organics. Lots of organics. Hundreds of thousands, if not a million. That presents a logistical challenge that Cerberus alone is not capable of meeting. I think your fear is unfounded--even if we assume TIM wants to, it's very likely well beyond his ability. 

Studying the base is still viable for his organization, however. 

So I'm suppose to believe TIM is above putting people in the base to see how it work.  Haha please... don't make me laugh.

You do realise that you're not adressing his point with this?

It makes no sense AT ALL for TIM to be making his own reaper. None.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
Then you're insane. I am basing my gamble on a physical object that can be analyzed by people who have proven capable of doing exactly that in the past.

Your are basing your gamble on... what exactly? You've got nothing.

Saphra being an ass?

Good to know everything is normal here in our lovely wretched hive.

I noticed you didn't actually adress the issue/question....

Absolutely no point in doing so.
Saphra is set in his ways.
I'm set in mine.
We'd never actually convince each other of anything.


If there were a hypothetical scenario in which there could actually be a reasonable debate about these topics I'd gladly join in. Because I've always loved testing my wits against others.

But that's not what happens here.

Ehh..so you're avoiding answering the question wiht the old "this is not a reasonable debate, it's a waste of time to answer it". Dude, in the time it took you to type the above, you could have just answered it.

But we all know you're tying to avoid answering it, cause you don't have a good answer, right?

Actually I can safely destroy the Collector Base with the almighty power of meta-gaming.
It's not serious business so I don't really fret over it.

[Mad180]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
That's a very big maybe that hinges on absolutely nothing but blind faith.

do you know of any race that the reapers didn't kill? Do you know of any Prothean artifiacts that are proomising?

You would throw away an EXISTING solution, and insted relay on hope that another solution will magicly present itself. So:
- you hope that there IS anything else out there to find  (and dont' evne have a hint that there might be or where to look)
- you're aslo hope that you will find it before the reapers come.
- you're also hoping that it comes close to the CB in terms of usefulness.
- you're also hoping that with LESS time to study it (since you would find it after the CB) you'd get just as much or anything at all.

Excuse me while I laugh at your f**** up priprities and silly logic.

The Collector base IS NOT an existing solution and also a MAYBE. Your trust in TIM is also blind faith. The Thorian (dead now) was not killed by the Reapers. There's a good chance the Protheans left more behind. You hope TIM will find something useful before the Reapers come. The Collector base could be useless. Don't know what I will find if anything at all. I do know TIM doesn't have a Collector base to use against me or the galaxy.

Yes it is. ti's there. It exists. It's a physical object proven to exist. It's existance is a FACT. The existance of reaper tech in it is a FACT.
Existance of any other source of anti-reaper tech is NOT.

No, I trust TIM because of his past record. EVERYTHING Cererus did follows a pattern (strengthen humanity). Everything TIM did in ME2 was agasint the Repaers & Collectors. It makes perfect sense for him to use the base agaisnt the reapers - reapers will destroy humantiy AND him. That's not blind faith. That's faith based on past fact and reasonable assumption.

On the other hand, what reason you have to mis-trust him? Because he's Cerberus? Glowy eyes? Your trust in his evilness is blind faith, as you really got nothing solid to base it on.

So yeah..your logic is rubbish

The FACT that it exists DOES NOT make it a solution. There's no way to know if anything you find will help you against the Reapers. What about the mass accelerator weapon used to take out the Derelict Reaper. Sounds like anti-reaper tech to me. You know little to nothing about TIM's motives... for all you know he is working for the Reapers. Oh wait! HE IS!!!!

[Mad180]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Mad180 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
How exactly do you think TIM is going to go and make his own Reapers? The fact that he won't be able to immediately start crankign out Reapers without studying the base first aside, the process requires organics. Lots of organics. Hundreds of thousands, if not a million. That presents a logistical challenge that Cerberus alone is not capable of meeting. I think your fear is unfounded--even if we assume TIM wants to, it's very likely well beyond his ability. 

Studying the base is still viable for his organization, however. 

So I'm suppose to believe TIM is above putting people in the base to see how it work.  Haha please... don't make me laugh.

You do realise that you're not adressing his point with this?

It makes no sense AT ALL for TIM to be making his own reaper. None.

Never said he wanted to make a Reaper but he does want to know how it works. The fastest way to do that would be to throw so people in there. TIM's a end justifies the means kind of guy.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Mad180 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Yes it is. ti's there. It exists. It's a physical object proven to exist. It's existance is a FACT. The existance of reaper tech in it is a FACT.
Existance of any other source of anti-reaper tech is NOT.

No, I trust TIM because of his past record. EVERYTHING Cererus did follows a pattern (strengthen humanity). Everything TIM did in ME2 was agasint the Repaers & Collectors. It makes perfect sense for him to use the base agaisnt the reapers - reapers will destroy humantiy AND him. That's not blind faith. That's faith based on past fact and reasonable assumption.

On the other hand, what reason you have to mis-trust him? Because he's Cerberus? Glowy eyes? Your trust in his evilness is blind faith, as you really got nothing solid to base it on.

So yeah..your logic is rubbish

The FACT that it exists DOES NOT make it a solution. There's no way to know if anything you find will help you against the Reapers. What about the mass accelerator weapon used to take out the Derelict Reaper. Sounds like anti-reaper tech to me. You know little to nothing about TIM's motives... for all you know he is working for the Reapers. Oh wait! HE IS!!!!

The fact that it does exist makes it a CREDIBLE solution. Non-existing hypothetical storages of anti-reper information are not.
Really, do you expect that studying advanced tech will result in NOTHING? When's the last time that happened? SOMETHING will come out of it, ther'es no if's about it. The only question is how much worth it will be and how long will it take.

Also, who found that (defunct) super mass-driver? Cerberus again. Seems to me they are the only ones actually looking for solutions.

As for TIM's motives. That is where you're wrong. You assume that's he'll turn against you based on nothing.
I assume he won't based on EVERYTHING HE HAS DONE FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS.
For 20 years he and Cerberus have been working agasint the reapers. What sane person would go an assume that him turning agasint humanity is a likely and credible outcome?

Saying TIM will turn on you is no more credible than saying anyone else from your crew would.