951 réponses à ce sujet

[Saaziel]

Thompson family wrote...

Saaziel wrote...

Paragon's got more eye rolling moments (At least that i can remember); Like the Telon incident in the Dantius tower:

Telon: Don't come any closer , or i'll shoot ! Stay back i don't want to hurt you!
Shep: Hi , my name's commander Sheppard. What's you're name?

Excuse me? I'm a bleeding momma's boy Paragon saint, and I've never heard that line.


IIRC, my Shep says something like: I'm not going to hurt you. I'm here to help.

Its something along these lines ; Its been a while since i played to be honest.

Modifié par Saaziel, 03 octobre 2011 - 10:24 .

[Thompson family]

Saaziel wrote...

Its something along these lines ; Its been a while since i played to be honest.

OK. No problem.

[AlexXIV]

Saaziel wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Saaziel wrote...

Paragon's got more eye rolling moments (At least that i can remember); Like the Telon incident in the Dantius tower:

Telon: Don't come any closer , or i'll shoot ! Stay back i don't want to hurt you!
Shep: Hi , my name's commander Sheppard. What's you're name?

Excuse me? I'm a bleeding momma's boy Paragon saint, and I've never heard that line.


IIRC, my Shep says something like: I'm not going to hurt you. I'm here to help.

Its something along these lines ; Its been a while since i played to be honest.

You must have dreamed that, I am also mostly Paragon and never was there anything half as stupid as you claim. If you have something to say against Paragons at least don't make it up.

[Thompson family]

Hey, poster admitted to a possible mistake. That's more than some do.

Modifié par Thompson family, 03 octobre 2011 - 10:33 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Yezdigerd wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Incomparable situation, a hivemind species cannot be judged on the same terms as a normal one.

Your comprehension of fictional alien species are truly impressive.

I know, but it's nice to hear from others as well.

[Saaziel]

AlexXIV wrote...


You must have dreamed that, I am also mostly Paragon and never was there anything half as stupid as you claim.

here , at 2:10 .

Got the scene in reverse somewhat, still unbearable in my opinion.

AlexXIV wrote...

If you have something to say against Paragons at least don't make it up.

God damn , now I'm looking at the inside of my skull again. (makes you wonder how i can type si wekll)

Modifié par Saaziel, 03 octobre 2011 - 10:40 .

[Seboist]

Kaiser does have a good comprehension of the Rachni. He knows that they're one of the few alien species that are really alien and that they're completely incompatible with galactic civilization.

[ddv.rsa]

Saaziel wrote...

I'm sure they could build other facilities but the fact that they took the time and effort to build it near a super massive black hole makes me wonder if they'd be willing to settle anywhere else.

It was built there to hide it from the galaxy. Once they invade the Reapers will no longer be concerned with discretion.

Sounds rather contradicting here.

If stopping the attacks was the goal , and if an other human Reaper were to be rebuild . Then it follows that the attacks on human colonies would resume and the mission would have been , in actuality , a total failure.

The Collectors were shut down and the immediate threat was defeated. That's all you can hope for. Whether or not the base is kept the Reapers will still invade, attack human colonies, and harvest humans. What is your point? By your reasoning ME2 is a failure no matter what.

As far as I'm concerned, the events of ME1 showed that a Reaper can be defeated by an ill equipped , unprepared military force. Nothing leads me to believe that this could not be repeated on a much broader scale with a better equipped and ready force.

ME1 does not show this. The ONLY reason Sovereign was defeated is that Shepard killed Saren while he was Sovereign's avatar. This temporarily stunned Sovereign and caused it's shields to drop. Up to that point the Citadel fleet had not even depleted Sovereign's shields, let alone inflict damage. Had Saren not been destroyed then Sovereign, one Reaper, would have annihilated the combined Citadel and Alliance fleets. Unless the thousands of invading Reapers are all controlling avatars, what happened in ME1 will not be a viable strategy again.

Just what tech do you think will be found on the base that will be of any significance in the war? So far you've stated that the Reaper was destroyed; Who knows what remains of that. And Collector tech; Which is on par, or even sub par , to the Normandy at that point.

The human Reaper was destroyed by small arms fire. There'll be far more than left than of Sovereign, which was blown to pieces by the concentrated firepower of two fleets. Even so there was enough left to create the Thanix cannon and EDI. As for what I hope to find, do I really need to spell it out? They were building a Reaper. It's wreckage could offer insight into weaknesses, defenses, weapons, etc. I also think it likely that there are blueprints on site.

Playing the , "minimising the risk" card here seems deceptive* at best. There is no way to justify the strength of a Benefit to Risk ratio here; Its pure chance, You're taking a risk that you hope will pay off in the end ... and there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm actually baffled by those how insist on this paradigm of "minimizing risks" (And that it belongs to either one of the colour coded bars) . To me it borders insanity ... the bad kind of insanity at that.

Don't presume to know why other people play renegade. It's not about minimising risk. Not to me. It's about advancing the human cause at any cost. It's about loyalty to humanity over the galaxy. Rethink the major renegade choices from that perspective and the motivations might make more sense.

The Rachni and a cured Krogan are threats to humanity, and only incidentally to the rest of the galaxy. How to do you figure a coup de'tat against the Council is about minimising risks? It's a bold move to advance humanity. I had no problem giving the Collector base to Cerberus, because up to the point they joined the Reapers, I was largley on the same page.

[Yezdigerd]

Seboist wrote...

Kaiser does have a good comprehension of the Rachni. He knows that they're one of the few alien species that are really alien and that they're completely incompatible with galactic civilization.

Does he write renegade fanfiction too?

[AlexXIV]

Saaziel wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...


You must have dreamed that, I am also mostly Paragon and never was there anything half as stupid as you claim.

here , at 2:10 .

Got the scene in reverse somewhat, still unbearable in my opinion.

AlexXIV wrote...

If you have something to say against Paragons at least don't make it up.

God damn , now I'm looking at the inside of my skull again. (makes you wonder how i can type si wekll)

Ok she says 'I'm not the bad guy here, what's your name?'

How is it stupid to try to calm him down as a paragon action?

You said her answer was 'Hi, I am commander Shepard, what is your name?'

Which would be really weird.

Bottomline, what I said before. It's perfectly fine in the game and what you said was made up.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 03 octobre 2011 - 10:57 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Yezdigerd wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Kaiser does have a good comprehension of the Rachni. He knows that they're one of the few alien species that are really alien and that they're completely incompatible with galactic civilization.

Does he write renegade fanfiction too?

Is that your idea of a witty comeback? If so, try to come up with something better, dear.

[GodWood]

Xilizhra wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Many Paragon choices have a perfectly reasonable pragmatic justification to them.

You explain (in-universe, without whining about developer bias) why they tend to work out, then.

I cannot, it is developer bias.

Thompson family wrote...
One of these days, I might be able to get through a renegade playthrough before going blind from rolling my eyes.

For example: ME1, before Shep's even a Spectre; You bring Tali to Udina's office. Udina starts chewing you out for "shootouts in the wards, an all-out assualt on Chora's Den," then he sees Tali. Udina asks what she's doing here. Shep replies he/she was "about to explain that to you before you jumped down my throat."

And what does Udina do -- Udina, a man who insults and berates bonafide war hero Capt. Anderson just for the fun of it, all the time? A man who tries to browbeat the Council, for cryin' out loud.

Why, of course he meekly apologizes.

Think that's "realistic" or "pragmatic."

That's neither a paragon or a renegade choice; it's a dialogue option.

Much in the same way trying to sleep with every member of the Normandy is not paragon (despite most "lolletshavesex" options being the upper right choice)

OK. If Shep were alive, walked up to you and talked to you like that, what would your reaction be?

If I was offended (which in that case I would not be) I'd probably not have the guts to fight back at a short tempered elite soldier armed with 4 guns.

[Yezdigerd]

Saaziel wrote...

here , at 2:10 .

Got the scene in reverse somewhat, still unbearable in my opinion.

What is unbearable about it? That Shepard assure the terrified Salarian that he means him no harm?

The renegade interrupt is common example of the unneccesary excessive use of force coupled with mocking the traumatized victim that wins the galaxy's hearts and minds. true pragmatism at work!

[Saaziel]

ddv.rsa wrote...

The Collectors were shut down and the immediate threat was defeated. That's all you can hope for. {Snip} What is your point?

My point was that destroying the base eliminates and by extension, Minimize the Risk of the base being retaken minutes after Sheppard leaves the area.

Joker: Commander , we've cleared the Radioactive blast wave!
Sheppard: Excellent, the base is now are belongs to Cerberus. We've won!
Joker: Commander, 2 silhouettes... no wait 3! Collector vessels! What do we do?!
Sheppard: Fvck, i always thought there was just one.
Joker: Doesn't make sense ; logistically it would take for ever to gather the millions upon millions of humans to build a Reaper one trip at the time. Plus who knows what other aliens / organization are in league with the reapers. They've been around far too long to leave it up to just one ship.
Sheppard: ...
Joker: Yeah.

ddv.rsa wrote...
By your reasoning ME2 is a failure no matter what.

I have no idea how you got to that conclusion. I can only say that its not my position at all.

ddv.rsa wrote...
ME1 does not show this. The ONLY reason Sovereign was defeated is that Shepard killed Saren while he was Sovereign's avatar.

Meta-gaming.

Moreover it is acceptable to view cinematic ,or cinematic heavy scenes , as being proposefully frame to ease the flow of the narrative as opposed to being emblematic .

ddv.rsa wrote...
It's wreckage could offer insight into weaknesses, defenses, weapons, etc. I also think it likely that there are blueprints on site.

Since the larva are based on the specie that it was created from , its very doubtful that they would share any common blueprints or arsenal. Moreover we'll be fighting them in "Space ship form" not Mano-a-larva. Sovereign and the Derelict (Especially this one) were the best option to study for weakness or weapons.

That is to say , weakness or weapons that would have an impact on the Reaper fleet.

ddv.rsa wrote...
Don't presume to know why other people play renegade. It's not about minimising risk. Not to me. It's about advancing the human cause at any cost.

I don't think you even bother reading what i wrote.

I have no issue with your position, its by far more honest than using the "minimizing the risk" card to justify choices.

The topic , at that time was Renegade as the "minimizing the risks" decision , and i used that argument in favour of a paragon decision. Thereby putting into question that statement's legitimacy.

That is it. Nothing more nothing less.

Modifié par Saaziel, 03 octobre 2011 - 11:58 .

[Xilizhra]

I cannot, it is developer bias.

It happens in the universe. Hence, there's an in-universe explanation. The odds of Shepard being that lucky seem remarkably small, so the the two remaining explanations seem to be that the decisions are rational on their own merits, or Shepard is some type of reality warper and it would be irrational to not exploit that power to its fullest.

[Saaziel]

Yezdigerd wrote...

Saaziel wrote...

here , at 2:10 .

Got the scene in reverse somewhat, still unbearable in my opinion.

What is unbearable about it? That Shepard assure the terrified Salarian that he means him no harm?

The renegade interrupt is common example of the unneccesary excessive use of force coupled with mocking the traumatized victim that wins the galaxy's hearts and minds. true pragmatism at work!

First off i don't see How Sheppard can go into a room without guns ready given the situation. Second, a terrified person (Or salarian in this case) is still likely to pull the trigger accidentally.

The insult is grattuitous however. But to me what Sheppard says is less important than what he/she does.

I blow up the base not because its the best for the soul of humanity (Or whatever it is that he/she says. I know some are mental about ze details) i blow it up because its an unnecessary risk. I spare the queen not out of {Paragon text here} , But because its not part of my mission's objectives. If the council feel its too much of a threat , I'm sure they can muster enough ships to hunt it down.

Anyways , I'm rambling here.

Modifié par Saaziel, 04 octobre 2011 - 12:00 .

[AlexXIV]

Saaziel wrote...

Yezdigerd wrote...

Saaziel wrote...

here , at 2:10 .

Got the scene in reverse somewhat, still unbearable in my opinion.

What is unbearable about it? That Shepard assure the terrified Salarian that he means him no harm?

The renegade interrupt is common example of the unneccesary excessive use of force coupled with mocking the traumatized victim that wins the galaxy's hearts and minds. true pragmatism at work!

First off i don't see How Sheppard can go into a room without guns ready given the situation. Second, a terrified person (Or salarian in this case) is still likely to pull the trigger accidentally.

It's good judgement. As far as I am concerned Shep knows that the Salarian is not a killer just a scared innocent. Pointing a gun at him makes it even more likely for him to pull the trigger. You can argue that he could accidently pull the trigger, I could argue same could happen if you try to disarm him. It's not a question of right and wrong, it is a question of the method you use. Also, Shepard got a combat suit and probably some sort of shield up. It's not like Shep drops dead from one shot.

I agree with the Collector base though. I don't see blowing up the base as a paragon option and keeping it a renegade. Renegades kill the Rachni Queen and blow up the Geth, so why not blow up the Collector Base as well? And Paragons? Well they would probably also blow up the Base because of the atrocities that happened to the colonists. So giving the base to Cerberus is more about trusting Cerberus than anything else.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 03 octobre 2011 - 11:48 .

[ZealotNick]

Renegades are good because they would incenerate the zerg from orbit, paragons are dumb and sacrifice people to save an inferior race.

[ddv.rsa]

Saaziel wrote...

My point was that destroying the base eliminates and by extension, Minimize the Risk of the base being retaken minutes after Sheppard leaves the area.

Joker: Commander , we've cleared the Radioactive blast wave!
Sheppard: Excellent, the base is now are belongs to Cerberus. We've won!
Joker: Commander, 2 silhouettes... no wait 3! Collector vessels! What do we do?!
Sheppard: Fvck, i always thought there was just one.
Joker: Doesn't make sense ; logistically it take for ever to gather the millions upon millions of humans to build a Reaper one trip at the time. Plus who knows what other aliens / organization are in league with the reapers. They've been around far too long to leave it up to just one ship.
Sheppard: ...
Joker: Yeah.
.

Makes sense to me- that ship had millions of pods. There's also never been any indication that the Collectors have a fleet or any other forces. There certainly didn't appear to be any other immediate threat. In any case, it was a split second decision. There wasn't time to consider 1000 factors.

TIM made his case and sold me on the idea. Here is how the choice is presented: save the base and use the tech, or destroy it because it is evil. That is how Shep justifies the decision. Personally I did not, and still do not, think much past that.

[GodWood]

Xilizhra wrote...
It happens in the universe. Hence, there's an in-universe explanation. The odds of Shepard being that lucky seem remarkably small, so the the two remaining explanations seem to be that the decisions are rational on their own merits, or Shepard is some type of reality warper and it would be irrational to not exploit that power to its fullest.

Obviously it's the latter.
Unfortunately my Shepard sticks to the renegade options thus has not discovered this flaw in the universe.

[Yezdigerd]

Saaziel wrote...

First off i don't see How Sheppard can go into a room without guns ready given the situation. Second, a terrified person (Or salarian in this case) is still likely to pull the trigger accidentally.

The salarian has quite a defensive posture, "don't come any closer or I shoot", "I don't want to hurt you but I will"
It's rather clear from the situation that he is scared and acting in self-defence.
Presenting yourself as a friend is the obvious thing to do and cost nothing, if Delon doesn't stand down the intimidate option would still be available. and I would say threating to leave him in a "pool of blood" has much greater change to backfire, then asking for his name.

[Xilizhra]

GodWood wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
It happens in the universe. Hence, there's an in-universe explanation. The odds of Shepard being that lucky seem remarkably small, so the the two remaining explanations seem to be that the decisions are rational on their own merits, or Shepard is some type of reality warper and it would be irrational to not exploit that power to its fullest.

Obviously it's the latter.
Unfortunately my Shepard sticks to the renegade options thus has not discovered this flaw in the universe.

Personally, it seems more likely to me that you're simply unable to see any merit in Paragon decisions despite its existence. But, 'tis no skin off my universe.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

I cannot, it is developer bias.

It happens in the universe. Hence, there's an in-universe explanation. The odds of Shepard being that lucky seem remarkably small, so the the two remaining explanations seem to be that the decisions are rational on their own merits, or Shepard is some type of reality warper and it would be irrational to not exploit that power to its fullest.

The retroactive justification fallacy again, Xilzhra?

[Kileyan]

Yezdigerd wrote...

Saaziel wrote...

here , at 2:10 .

Got the scene in reverse somewhat, still unbearable in my opinion.

What is unbearable about it? That Shepard assure the terrified Salarian that he means him no harm?

The renegade interrupt is common example of the unneccesary excessive use of force coupled with mocking the traumatized victim that wins the galaxy's hearts and minds. true pragmatism at work!

Agreed.

Many of the main story renegade options are very ok to me, I even choose them often in my "do what I think I would do in real life" plays.

Most of the random non-story important renegade options that are mostly there just to level up your renegade points are very silly, overly obnoxious and serve no purpse, that even a truly evil person would choose, let alone a simply pragmatic person.

[.jpg.exe]

lolspawn wrote...

everyone has there own opinion.

and i kill the terrorist every time    because hes just going to do it again. 

I play paragon and yup i do this as well. Everytime