951 réponses à ce sujet

[Zu Long]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

The renegade option for the end of ME is "Let the council Die" -- there is no rational logic behind choosing that specific option, when the neutrai option of "Concentrate on Sovereign" is already present.

That's another choice I don't agree with and is it not one I ever make (well, mainly because ME2 doesn't acknowledge the difference when you explain your actions to Al'Jilani)

And I don't think Humanity has proven anything.  Shepard and his/her team of aliens have been the only ones in the galaxy to ever get anything done.

Those aliens are helpless without Shepard and the only reason they can go anywhere and do anything is because of the human ship they are serving on. A unique human ship made possible with a unique human innovation.

Wasn't the unique human ship created as a joint project with Turians?

Edit: Typhoon ninja'd me and therefore gets a cookie.

Modifié par Zu Long, 24 août 2011 - 05:17 .

[Thompson family]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

It actually doesn't really matter what the "chioice" or action is... if you go blue, you know you're going to get a nice sparkly ending and the most content... the best possible (assuming the trend continues). Sure does take the guesswork out of things doesn't it?

and

Alock1a wrote...

The Mass Effect games have always very rarely rewarded those who make renegade decisions.

But does it punish logical decisions?

I've never suffered any particular pangs of guilt for having my Shep shove a power tool into the back of the gunship mechanic. Yet at the end of these logical decisions even before finding out what their consequences are, I find my Shep's a bloody paragon saint.

[Thompson family]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Paragades are Paragons until you tick them off.  They have a dark side.

Renegons are Renegades until you touch their heart.  They have a soft side.

That's a good observation, Mr. Gogeta34

[Thompson family]

Zu Long wrote...

To answer the topic creator, I can think of 8 realistic renegade options/interrupts.

1. Blow away Kenson in Arrival.
2. Kill the Gunship repairman.
3. Blow away the mercs in Miranda's mission.
4. Headbutt the Krogan.
5. Blow up Weyrloc Speaker.
6. Headshot the Mech.
7. Call out the Eclipse Sister.
8. Intimidating the criminal with your Spectre status.

The rest are based on carelessness, cruelty, and paranoia.

1. Agree with that.
2. Agree with that.
3. Agree with that.
4. Ditto. I'm sensing a pattern here.
5. Yep.
6. Yep. Garrus recruit mission.
7. Yep. Beginning to wish I'd killed Rana Theopsis in ME1, too.
8. True, but not as beneficial since you can do that without going renegade.

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

The renegade option for the end of ME is "Let the council Die" -- there is no rational logic behind choosing that specific option, when the neutrai option of "Concentrate on Sovereign" is already present.

That's another choice I don't agree with and is it not one I ever make (well, mainly because ME2 doesn't acknowledge the difference when you explain your actions to Al'Jilani)

And I don't think Humanity has proven anything.  Shepard and his/her team of aliens have been the only ones in the galaxy to ever get anything done.

Those aliens are helpless without Shepard and the only reason they can go anywhere and do anything is because of the human ship they are serving on. A unique human ship made possible with a unique human innovation.

And Shepard can't get anything done without them.  The idea behind the games has been to create and work with a team to achieve the ultimate goal.  Humanity will not win by itself - our success against the Reapers will depend upon building a strong, united Galactic Force to go against them, otherwise we will be as helpless as the Protheans were, having been divided when the Reapers took control of the Relays.

The Normandy would not be as effective as it was if (during the course of ME2), we had not outfitted it with Asari Armor, Turian Guns, and Quarian Shields.  The SR-2 is a bad-a** COLLABORATION, an amalgum of top-end technologies from all races.  The collectors pretty much proved this point by destroying the first one.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

And Shepard can't get anything done without them.

Yes he can. Remember Arrival? Or any goddamn mission where your goddamn idiot squadmates ran from cover and got shot dead? Useless pieces of ****. I keep them around for their personalities, not much else.

The upgrades are nice, but Cerberus could have probably saved time, effort, and money by just giving the SR2 a contingent of Cerberus commandoes.

Yeah cause Ceberus commandos can keep debris from breaching your hull.
Strap one of those bad boys to a disruptor torpedo and it will rip through a collector ship like butter.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 24 août 2011 - 05:26 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Ferris95 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Paragades are just wannabe Renegades who don't have the stomach to get the job done. 

Paragades are Paragons until you tick them off.  They have a dark side.

Renegons are Renegades until you touch their heart.  They have a soft side.

Actually my Renegon had no soft side. He was a proffesional to the bone, charming, polite. Prepared to kill you in a minute.

That method of diplomacy would be his soft side.  Part of being "professional" is having a soft side, to be respectful and courteous to clientele. 

[Mr. Gogeta34]

The Council and Collector Base were rational Renegade decisions... but the first was a choice made partially out of spite. The difference between "no thank you" and "HECK NO!"

The second one was made out of needing as much help as you can get (also considering the basic completion of a successful 'suicide' mission against the Collectors).

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Sisterofshane wrote...

The Normandy would not be as effective as it was if (during the course of ME2), we had not outfitted it with Asari Armor, Turian Guns, and Quarian Shields.  The SR-2 is a bad-a** COLLABORATION, an amalgum of top-end technologies from all races.  The collectors pretty much proved this point by destroying the first one.

You responded to this with " Cerberus commandos would have made up the difference."

I'm following the conversation fine,I wouldn't comment if I wasn't.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 24 août 2011 - 05:32 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Ferris95 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Ferris95 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Paragades are just wannabe Renegades who don't have the stomach to get the job done. 

Paragades are Paragons until you tick them off.  They have a dark side.

Renegons are Renegades until you touch their heart.  They have a soft side.

Actually my Renegon had no soft side. He was a proffesional to the bone, charming, polite. Prepared to kill you in a minute.

That method of diplomacy would be his soft side.  Part of being "professional" is having a soft side, to be respectful and courteous to clientele. 

I never saw that as soft, just offering respect where it's due. Doesn't matter much though, was still a fun role play.

Yeah, guess it depends on how you define "soft."  I liken it to being willing to bend in order to accomidate another... pliable/soft.

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

And Shepard can't get anything done without them.

Yes he can. Remember Arrival? Or any goddamn mission where your goddamn idiot squadmates ran from cover and got shot dead? Useless pieces of ****. I keep them around for their personalities, not much else.

The upgrades are nice, but Cerberus could have probably saved time, effort, and money by just giving the SR2 a contingent of Cerberus commandoes.

Actually, no.  Try not recruitng Liara in ME1, or Garrus in ME2.
The game just stops.

Or in ME2, try completing the game with recruiting the smallest team possible. (I mean STOP once you are no longer forced to recruit in order to advance the story line).  Then treat them like they are unimportant and don't complete their loyalty missions before you go to the CB.  Shepard dies.  End of story.

And as long as I'm metagaming, Arrival was designed to be played solo.  That's why you can do it with only Shepard.

And all meta-gaming aside, no man is designed to be an island -- Shepard is no exception.  WIthout any alien interference (by the Protheans to begin with), I doubt humanity would be in the position that it is today.

[TheOptimist]

Dave of Canada wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

See: Depot Sigma 23,

Failure with minor success.
Cerberus learns, which they'd have no way of knowing otherwise, that the Rachni are not mindless animals.

And that failure could have led to unfettered insane Rachni invading half that sector of the Galaxy had Shepard not stumbled across it.  Way to go, Cerberus.

Overlord

Successful with minor failure. [Renegade]
Failure. [Paragon]
Cerberus is capable of hacking and holding control of the Geth, something nobody else in the Galaxy has proven capable of doing, at the cost of a handful of scientists.

And nearly ushering in the cybernetic apocolypse but for, again, the timely interference of Shepard, who for some reason didn't trust Dr. Archer not to **** up again. I wonder why. But sure, for the small price of the entire research team save one guy and half the facilities and equipment, they gained the ability to drive an autistic boy insane.  That qualifies as success, right?

Subject Zero

Very successful with minor failure.
Project Subject Zero was successful in two(three) things:
It provided the strongest human biotic in the galaxy, which was it's original goal.
Subject Zero was used for the success of another Cerberus project, stopping human kidnappings throughout the galaxy. Minor failure occurs if the Collectors kill her / the squad, though main objective is accomplished.
The research of what worked on Biotics and what killed  them allowed for the Alliance Ascension project to treat human biotics, allowing them to harness their abilities and to make them stronger.

Oh please.  Subject Zero project killed every scientist who worked on it as well as almost all the test subjects with the exception of two.  Subject Zero then goes on to spread chaos and mayhem throughout the galaxy before being cryogenically frozen on a prison ship.  Some time later, Shepard shows up and frees Subject Zero, who has no loyalty and quite a bit of animosity towards Cerberus, and only through great effort is convinced to help stop the Collectors in exchange for freedom. So sure, if your definition of success is getting everyone killed and hoping Shepard can put things back together, it was kind of a success.

Oh and you can just as easily credit the Ascenscion projects success to the lessons learned in Biotic Acclimation and Temperance training.  Not to mention that Cerberus subsequently managed completely **** up THAT project too.  Then there's Akuze, Chasca, Idenna, Firewalker...if it weren't for the Lazarus project succeeding Cerberus would be one unbroken string of abject failure.

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

The renegade option for the end of ME is "Let the council Die" -- there is no rational logic behind choosing that specific option, when the neutrai option of "Concentrate on Sovereign" is already present.

That's another choice I don't agree with and is it not one I ever make (well, mainly because ME2 doesn't acknowledge the difference when you explain your actions to Al'Jilani)

And I don't think Humanity has proven anything.  Shepard and his/her team of aliens have been the only ones in the galaxy to ever get anything done.

Those aliens are helpless without Shepard and the only reason they can go anywhere and do anything is because of the human ship they are serving on. A unique human ship made possible with a unique human innovation.

Convenient that you leave out the fact that it was codeveloped by the Turians.  And Shepard never would have even found Ilos without the help of three Asari, Liara to interpret Shepard's visions, Shiala to give him the Cipher, and Benezia who momentarily broke free of introduction to give Shepard the coordinates of the Mu Relay.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

TheOptimist, When you're the janitor, all you're going to see is the trash.

To say Cerberus is nothing but failure is not realistic to the universe they're in. Cerberus has many things and have done many things... things that had to have come from successes.

The Alliance similarly things go wrong (mainly moon projects and of course Arrival)

Plus, I still feel that the nature of some Cerberus operations make it unfair to blame Cerberus themselves for the failure.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 24 août 2011 - 05:44 .

[Davie McG]

I know, I don't think anyone even seen my post on the last page with all this bickering. So much for civilised debate.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Davie McG wrote...

I know, I don't think anyone even seen my post on the last page with all this bickering. So much for civilised debate.

Some people are all too quick to arms when defending their decisions or alignment,some people will never accept the possibility they could be wrong,or that someone else could be right.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 24 août 2011 - 05:45 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

And all meta-gaming aside, no man is designed to be an island -- Shepard is no exception.  WIthout any alien interference (by the Protheans to begin with), I doubt humanity would be in the position that it is today.

No, if you want to meta-game then lets meta-game. I have to recruit squadmates to advance the plot. However I never actually need them in combat and as long as I have enough of them I don't even need to assign them to the right roles or get them loyal. Squadmates can help, but Shep is worth more than all of them put together.

Aliens do something useful here and there, but anything they do humans do better. We're smarter and braver.

But not more biotically capable... and certainly not as large in size (and not as technologically advanced either until discovering the relays).  If it was us against the rest of the Mass Effect galaxy, we'd lose.  Allies are a good thing and completely necessary...

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 24 août 2011 - 05:47 .