951 réponses à ce sujet

[TheOptimist]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

TheOptimist, When you're the janitor, all you're going to see is the trash.

To say Cerberus is nothing but failure is not realistic to the universe they're in. Cerberus has many things and have done many things... things that had to have come from successes.

Plus, I still feel that the nature of some Cerberus operations make it unfair to blame Cerberus themselves for the failure.

I should probably qualify my last comment, Cerberus' research and development operation has been one long string of failure with the exception of Lazarus.  Their intelligence network is clearly unbelievably good and they obviously have a staggering amount of resources.  Their recruitment operation is top notch, as they clearly get some very effective people to work for them.  They also, to be fair, developed EDI, who is one of only two sane AI Shepard has met. 

However, giving them the Collector base after everything Shepard has run into cannot possibly be qualified as the 'logical' or rational decision, given what Shepard has seen of their research people.  With their history, my Shepard would set long odds that anyone Cerberus assigns to that Station comes to a bad end for little gain.

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

And all meta-gaming aside, no man is designed to be an island -- Shepard is no exception.  WIthout any alien interference (by the Protheans to begin with), I doubt humanity would be in the position that it is today.

No, if you want to meta-game then lets meta-game. I have to recruit squadmates to advance the plot. However I never actually need them in combat and as long as I have enough of them I don't even need to assign them to the right roles or get them loyal. Squadmates can help, but Shep is worth more than all of them put together.

Aliens do something useful here and there, but anything they do humans do better. We're smarter and braver.

To say we are "smarter and braver" is to make a subjective judgement.  "Better" is a term used by someone trying to trump up their argument without presenting any cold, hard facts.  The whole point of this is to prove that, to win the war, you are going to need allies (whether you meta-game or not).  And a paragon Shep is in a better positiion to gain useful, effective allies.

I have a good feeling it will play out very similar in ME3 -- only instead of recruiting individuals you are basically conscripting other species to fight the Reapers.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

TheOptimist wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

TheOptimist, When you're the janitor, all you're going to see is the trash.

To say Cerberus is nothing but failure is not realistic to the universe they're in. Cerberus has many things and have done many things... things that had to have come from successes.

Plus, I still feel that the nature of some Cerberus operations make it unfair to blame Cerberus themselves for the failure.

I should probably qualify my last comment, Cerberus' research and development operation has been one long string of failure with the exception of Lazarus.  Their intelligence network is clearly unbelievably good and they obviously have a staggering amount of resources.  Their recruitment operation is top notch, as they clearly get some very effective people to work for them.  They also, to be fair, developed EDI, who is one of only two sane AI Shepard has met. 

However, giving them the Collector base after everything Shepard has run into cannot possibly be qualified as the 'logical' or rational decision, given what Shepard has seen of their research people.  With their history, my Shepard would set long odds that anyone Cerberus assigns to that Station comes to a bad end for little gain.

I take it for granted that you never did that Cerberus side mission to stop a missle launch?

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 24 août 2011 - 05:54 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

If it was us against the rest of the Mass Effect galaxy, we'd lose.  Allies are a good thing and completely necessary..

We already took over the galaxy and nobody tried to stop us. The aliens are gutless and fearful. They won't do anything but grumble.

In any case, I never said allies weren't desirable. Thanks for putting words in my mouth, fool. That's an irritating habit people have on this forum.

Allies are necessary when applied on a national level. Shepard's personal allies are just individual people. They are all replaceable.

Actually they've been kissing up to the alien races at this point so that's slowed down any negative response.  At this point, humanity's not really leading anything... they're just doing all the leg work in the galaxy while the other races sit back and watch.  The Turians certainly aren't helping them.  The Alliance is stretched thin and the Aliens wanted to do something about that in the Alliance's vulnerable state... they could.  Heck, the Batarians alone could cause a whole heap of trouble...

Now...

First of all, just because I make a comment about Allies, does not mean I'm putting words in your mouth.  I said it... never said you said it, lol.  So lets tone down that hypocrisy of yours to a more respectful level.

Secondly, replaceable or not, allies are necessary... Shepard has never demonstrated the ability to do even half of the things that he's done all by himself.  Things like piloting and maintaining the Normandy or deploying biotic fields while fighting off Collectors require more than just one man.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 24 août 2011 - 06:19 .

[Golden Owl]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Not going into big detail about it but here's my "canon" Shep's reasoning:

Feros: I didn't know what'd happen after the Thorian is dead, maybe they'd regrow or long term side-effects could damage the people around them. They were shot dead.

Rachni Queen: I'm going to trust somebody who's word is at gunpoint who threatened to destroy the entire universe many years ago? Yeah, no.

[Not really Renegade but...] Virmire: Ashley, while my LI, died because Kaidan was higher on the chain of command and was defending the bomb. That bomb was necessary, Ashley was not.

Council: Save the forces that are going to actually be capable of fighting Sovereign and possibly destroy him before he summons all the Reapers or risk losing valuable men to protect a half-destroyed ship containing VIP Politicans? Galaxy > Council.

Genophage cure: Destroyed it, the Krogan are working under Wrex's banner because he's capable of controlling the women. They'd kill him should he lose that vital control, therefore it's best to not introduce the genophage cure and remove Wrex's only defense from being ripped apart.

Collector Base: Kept it, it's technology could very well save the damn universe. If it provides nothing, blow it up. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

The damned shame of the two bolded decisions is not matter whether you play paragon or renegade, it's looking like our desicions may mean squat in ME3.

From what I have heard....

Genophage Cure: Regardless of whether you destroy or keep the Genophage cure data, Mordin comes up with a cure in ME3 anyway.

Collector Base: Regardless of whether you hand the Base to Cerberus or not, TiM gets the data.

Kinda makes both those decisions a moot point....<_<

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

To say we are "smarter and braver" is to make a subjective judgement.  "Better" is a term used by someone trying to trump up their argument without presenting any cold, hard facts.

I've given facts. Here and elsewhere many times.

Humans created carriers. Humans created medigel. Humans created the tantalus drive core. Humans created stealth in space. Humans created EDI. Humans brought a man back from death. Humans defeated the Collectors. Humans defeated the Shadow Broker. Humans conquered the Citadel Council (something even the rachni and krogan failed to do). Humans found a way to control geth.

There are probably others that I'm forgetting.

I'm not saying the other races aren't capable of doing anything, but humans always come out on top.

I agree with you that Humans have been set up to be just as capable as the other races.  And, for personal record, I do believe that humans have way more ingenuity then the other races in space, which have seem to stagnated (as evidenced by the Council in ME1 and their failed policies and procedures, and their blatant refusal to accept Shepard's word at face value, even though they blindly trusted Saren).  I can't just discount the fact, however, that many of these innovations have come from the support of other races. individually or as a collective.

[TheOptimist]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
I take it for granted that you never did that Cerberus side mission to stop a missle launch?

Uh, you mean this mission:
http://masseffect.wi...ssiles_Launched ?

That's not a Cerberus Mission.  That's something Commander Shepard decided to stop and do since he/she was in the neighborhood.

[Davie McG]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Davie McG wrote...

I know, I don't think anyone even seen my post on the last page with all this bickering. So much for civilised debate.

Some people are all too quick to arms when defending their decisions or alignment,some people will never accept the possibility they could be wrong,or that someone else could be right.

Well pride is a demon some can't shake from their back.

My view on the topic is that some renegade decisions make sense, at least from a role playing perspective.

My canon Shepard is mainly Paragon with a large dash of neural and a sliver of renegade. One such renegade decision is making kasumi delete the data on the gray box. My Shepard is mainly paragon but he's also an Alliance man. If he were to let kasumi keep that info that was incriminating the Alliance then that would be entirely contrary to his character. It would be more realistic of him to convince her to destroy it.

Anyway that's my two bob.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

TheOptimist wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
I take it for granted that you never did that Cerberus side mission to stop a missle launch?

Uh, you mean this mission:
http://masseffect.wi...ssiles_Launched ?

That's not a Cerberus Mission.  That's something Commander Shepard decided to stop and do since he/she was in the neighborhood.

That's not what someone would say considering the choice of where the missle launched rests with someone who's working (even temporarily) as part of Cerberus.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
I take it for granted that you never did that Cerberus side mission to stop a missle launch?

Uh, you mean this mission:
http://masseffect.wi...ssiles_Launched ?

That's not a Cerberus Mission.  That's something Commander Shepard decided to stop and do since he/she was in the neighborhood.

That's not what someone would say considering the choice of where the missle launched rests with someone who's working (even temporarily) as part of Cerberus.

No one even knows you did it though...and it was an anomaly you randomly picked up,and it was an Alliance colony.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 24 août 2011 - 06:21 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
I take it for granted that you never did that Cerberus side mission to stop a missle launch?

Uh, you mean this mission:
http://masseffect.wi...ssiles_Launched ?

That's not a Cerberus Mission.  That's something Commander Shepard decided to stop and do since he/she was in the neighborhood.

That's not what someone would say considering the choice of where the missle launched rests with someone who's working (even temporarily) as part of Cerberus.

No one even knows you did it though...

No one knew about Akuze or Telsa either until someone did.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
I take it for granted that you never did that Cerberus side mission to stop a missle launch?

Uh, you mean this mission:
http://masseffect.wi...ssiles_Launched ?

That's not a Cerberus Mission.  That's something Commander Shepard decided to stop and do since he/she was in the neighborhood.

That's not what someone would say considering the choice of where the missle launched rests with someone who's working (even temporarily) as part of Cerberus.

No one even knows you did it though...

No one knew about Akuze or Telsa either until someone did.

I was responding to the "that's what someone would say" there wouldn't be anyone to say anything,it isn't a Cerberus mission,it's Shepard in typical fashion,right place...well you get the picture.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

There is a fine line in working with and working for...

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
I take it for granted that you never did that Cerberus side mission to stop a missle launch?

Uh, you mean this mission:
http://masseffect.wi...ssiles_Launched ?

That's not a Cerberus Mission.  That's something Commander Shepard decided to stop and do since he/she was in the neighborhood.

That's not what someone would say considering the choice of where the missle launched rests with someone who's working (even temporarily) as part of Cerberus.

No one even knows you did it though...

No one knew about Akuze or Telsa either until someone did.

I was responding to the "that's what someone would say" there wouldn't be anyone to say anything,it isn't a Cerberus mission,it's Shepard in typical fashion,right place...well you get the picture.

lol yeah, but what's also there is a Cerberus ship with Cerberus operatives entering a missle silo and launching a missle (potentially into a populated area).  Does that missle silo have cameras to see the ship coming in?  Could that be blamed on Cerberus? (Could be... Yep)

Between that, the Teltin rogue group, Overlord, and Shepard's ability to destroy the base, it's clear that responsibility rests more with a specific operator than it does with TIM... or Cerberus

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 24 août 2011 - 06:34 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

The missiles were launched prior to you getting there,hence the distress signal and countdown timer...

Also wtf is telsa,do you mean teltin?

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 24 août 2011 - 06:32 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

The missiles were launched prior to you getting there,hence the distress signal and countdown timer...

Also wtf is telsa,do you mean teltin?

Teltin, yeah (fixed).  Also they did prevent one missle from launching, but they couldn't stop the other and had to pick where it would land.

The outside world wouln't be aware of those circumstances.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 24 août 2011 - 06:36 .

[TheOptimist]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
I take it for granted that you never did that Cerberus side mission to stop a missle launch?

Uh, you mean this mission:
http://masseffect.wi...ssiles_Launched ?

That's not a Cerberus Mission.  That's something Commander Shepard decided to stop and do since he/she was in the neighborhood.

That's not what someone would say considering the choice of where the missle launched rests with someone who's working (even temporarily) as part of Cerberus.

Not entirely sure what you're getting at.  Shepard's a ridiculous badass and gets credit for managing to stop even one of the missiles.  The missiles would have taken out both targets had you not stopped them.  I suppose Shepard could be seen as single handedly making up for Cerberus' well earned terrible reputation, but since my armor and those of my companions did not bear Cerberus logos (Garrus and Mordin or Samara, typically), I'm not sure how much credence people will give to the fact that I was working with Cerberus at the time.