951 réponses à ce sujet

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Where the missle launched was Shepard's decision (who at the time worked with Cerberus).  As part of that decision, Shepard could've wiped out an entire population (innocent people).  So who's to blame, Shepard or Cerberus?

Wtf are you talking about, t-h-e m-i-s-s-i-l-e-s w-e-r-e a-l-r-e-a-d-y l-a-u-n-c-h-e-d
b-a-t-a-r-i-a-n-s l-a-u-n-c-h-e-d t-h-e m-i-s-s-i-l-e-s.

Then what's the red arrow pointing to?

Ugh...dude,are you trolling,no one can be this clueless.

So that's not the missle...  A snowcone maker?

You would've saved time by just answering the question.

It is clearly a missile that has not been launched
WHY IN  THE BLUE HELL WOULD SHEPARD INTENTIONALLY KILL HUMAN COLONISTS.

“Scans detect an Alliance colony defended by a Javelin Mk. II missile
base. A distress signal indicates that the base is compromised by
batarians who have launched two missiles at the Alliance colony. Total
destruction of the colony is imminent. Zero probability of survivors if
missiles strike.

Find the control panel in the Javelin Mk. II missile base. Time of
impact calculated: landing party will have 5 minutes to deactivate the
missiles after shuttle touchdown.”


EDIT:Forgot about arrival.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 24 août 2011 - 07:42 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

TheOptimist wrote...
Uh, 'NOT' in my Shepard's case.

Your Shepard didn't pick a target?

TheOptimist wrote...

It's a missile base, one assumes it has more that two missiles.  And it's not Intel, that was the content of the distress signal, and there are still batarian bodies all over the base.  You can try to twist this as much as you want, Shepard doesn't get blamed for only being able to stop one missile out of two in 5 minutes.

So the batarian at the start of the mission was just playing tetris?

[SandTrout]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

So that's not the missle...  A snowcone maker?

You would've saved time by just answering the question.

More would be saved by not acting like an idiot and asking blatently pointless questions.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

[quote] Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
You would've saved time by just answering the question.[/quote] It is clearly a missile that has not been launched
WHY IN  THE BLUE HELL WOULD SHEPARD INTENTIONALLY KILL HUMAN COLONISTS.

“Scans detect an Alliance colony defended by a Javelin Mk. II missile
base. A distress signal indicates that the base is compromised by
batarians who have launched two missiles at the Alliance colony. Total
destruction of the colony is imminent. Zero probability of survivors if
missiles strike.

Find the control panel in the Javelin Mk. II missile base. Time of
impact calculated: landing party will have 5 minutes to deactivate the
missiles after shuttle touchdown.”


EDIT:Forgot about arrival.

[/quote]

Shepard CAN intentionally do that... why would be up to you.  And given that the Batarian at the start of this mission likely wasn't playing Tetris, he was likely using the other missles (which shepard stopped the launch of).  He didn't stop them all and had to choose where one of them ended up launching to.  That's what happened.

Shepard chose whether he killed innocent civilians or not.  He could have... so I hope you're not arguing against it.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 24 août 2011 - 07:47 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Ok,this is pointless,yes gogeta,the moon is made of cheese and the ocean is angels tears.

[Rahmiel]

No Gogeta, 2 missiles were launched and Shepard had to race to the control terminal to input the killswitch commands to destroy the 2 missiles that were already launched.

At the end of the mission, you find that you only have one self destruct command, so it's your decision which of the 2 missiles already in flight to destroy. Save the residential area, or save the industrial sector.

Truthfully, I think this one is a no brainer. You lose the residential area, and the colony is lost, the industrial area will have no workers and the equipment is pretty much as good as dead. Save the colonists, and you'll have to relocate them elsewhere.

All in all, that's probably the best outcome, renegade or paragon.

[TheOptimist]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Your Shepard didn't pick a target?

No, the targets were picked long before I got there.

So the batarian at the start of the mission was just playing tetris?

Good point, Shep must have stopped way more than one missile, since that guys getting ready to launch more. 

Modifié par TheOptimist, 24 août 2011 - 07:58 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Ok,this is pointless,yes gogeta,the moon is made of cheese and the ocean is angels tears.

Lol alright I'll be serious... but that tangent was only in response to your random comment about the missles already launching (which is irrelevant to my point or Shepard's choice of where the missles launched).  Now we both know it's annoying, so lets both of us stop doing that and keep our debate on topic.

[SandTrout]

On topic, the most obviously realistic Renegade choices that pop into my head are:

Kill Fist.
Kill the Rachni Queen.
Kill Balak.
Killing Shiala (Feros asari)
Let the Destiny Ascension be destroyed.
Allow Cerberus to debrief Veetor.
Allow Garrus to kill Sidonus.
Destroy the Genophage Cure.
The interrogation of Elias Kellum.
Killing the Eclipse merc during Samara's recruitment mission.
Destroying the Heretic Geth.
Keeping the Collector Base.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

TheOptimist wrote...
No, the targets were picked long before I got there.

You can disable one, effectively making it so that you pick the target from the two options available.  You either kill a whole bunch of innocent people or you don't.

Good point, Shep must have stopped way more than one missile, since that guys getting ready to launch more. 

Seemed that way to me.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Memmahkth wrote...

No Gogeta, 2 missiles were launched and Shepard had to race to the control terminal to input the killswitch commands to destroy the 2 missiles that were already launched.

At the end of the mission, you find that you only have one self destruct command, so it's your decision which of the 2 missiles already in flight to destroy. Save the residential area, or save the industrial sector.

I'm aware of that.  That tangent came on only after he countered the notion of Shepard choosing whether a populated area was destroyed or not with "the missles had already launched."  It was irrelevant, was having some fun, I clarified it here:

Mr.Gogeta 34 wrote...

Lol alright I'll be serious... but that tangent was only in response to your random comment about the missles already launching (which is irrelevant to my point or Shepard's choice of where the missles launched).  Now we both know it's annoying, so lets both of us stop doing that and keep our debate on topic.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 24 août 2011 - 08:13 .

[TheOptimist]

TheOptimist wrote...
No, the targets were picked long before I got there.

You can disable one, effectively making it so that you pick the target from the two options available.  You either kill a whole bunch of innocent people or you don't.

Again, I'll go with 'don't'.

Modifié par TheOptimist, 24 août 2011 - 08:07 .

[SandTrout]

jreezy wrote...

Gonna have to disagree with you about Veetor but other than that your spot on.

There was no guarantee that the Migrant Fleet would forward any debriefings back to Cerberus, and ample evidence that they would not, based on past history of the Fleet being invaded by Cerberus commandos.

The fact that the Migrant fleet did forward the information back to TIM actually kind of annoyed be as being out of character, though I supposed that Tali probably had something to do with that.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

TheOptimist wrote...
Again, I'll go with 'don't'.

I agree with you... but say you went with "do"... who would be at fault for those innocent people being killed?  Shepard or Cerberus?

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 24 août 2011 - 08:12 .

[TheOptimist]

SandTrout wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Gonna have to disagree with you about Veetor but other than that your spot on.

There was no guarantee that the Migrant Fleet would forward any debriefings back to Cerberus, and ample evidence that they would not, based on past history of the Fleet being invaded by Cerberus commandos.

The fact that the Migrant fleet did forward the information back to TIM actually kind of annoyed be as being out of character, though I supposed that Tali probably had something to do with that.

If we're using what we know about the Migrant Fleet's history with Cerberus, why would we believe TIM when he says Veetor won't be harmed?

[TheOptimist]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...
Again, I'll go with 'don't'.

I agree with you... but say you went with "do"... who would be at fault for those innocent people being killed?  Shepard or Cerberus?

Shepard, to some extent, but I'd still have to go with the batarians.

[GSSAGE7]

I tend to play Paragon, with some Renegade decisions if it is in character for the Shepard.
The actions I usually pick are really just messing up Kelham, and killing Fist.

If the Eclipse Merc interrupt lasted until when she pulled the gun out, I would pull kill her instantly. Sadly, the icon goes away before she pulls it out.
I frankly don't see the point of killing Talid, when the Paragon interrupt is shooting the lamp to distract Kolyat, where you can just punch him and let Talid get away.

[Darkelefantos1]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...
Again, I'll go with 'don't'.

I agree with you... but say you went with "do"... who would be at fault for those innocent people being killed?  Shepard or Cerberus?

Obviously the batarian terrorists because Shepard just couldn't save everybody?
That mission also didn't have a Renegade or Paragon option. You don't get any points. You kill the colonists or you effectively end the colonisation effort. Great choices.

[SandTrout]

TheOptimist wrote...

If we're using what we know about the Migrant Fleet's history with Cerberus, why would we believe TIM when he says Veetor won't be harmed?

You don't, nor do you need to. However, the information he has will likely prove vital to the mission at hand, and you can trust TIM to get the information, one way or another, and forward it to you. This overriding emphasis on the practicalities of the mission is the signature of 'realistic' Renegade decisions. Shepard needs that information, regardless of how it is aquired.

That said, my personal cannon let the Quarians retrieve Veetor because my Shepard figured that Tali, at least, would send the relevant information directly to him, even if the Migrant Fleet didn't want to deal with TIM.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

TheOptimist wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...
Again, I'll go with 'don't'.

I agree with you... but say you went with "do"... who would be at fault for those innocent people being killed?  Shepard or Cerberus?

Shepard, to some extent, but I'd still have to go with the batarians.

Then couldn't we say for example that... with Grayson, the blame was less TIM/Cerberus than it was Anderson and the Turians?  They're technically the ones who facilitated the launch of the Grayson missle.  (not being literal).  TIM had things under control before then.

Couldn't we also blame Overlord on Archer's dumb idea instead of TIM/Cerberus who was about to shut the project down?

Couldn't we also blame Teltin's activities on the scientists hiding information and methods from TIM/Cerberus (in fear of what TIM would do if he found out)?

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 24 août 2011 - 08:30 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Darkelefantos1 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...
Again, I'll go with 'don't'.

I agree with you... but say you went with "do"... who would be at fault for those innocent people being killed?  Shepard or Cerberus?

Obviously the batarian terrorists because Shepard just couldn't save everybody?
That mission also didn't have a Renegade or Paragon option. You don't get any points. You kill the colonists or you effectively end the colonisation effort. Great choices.

Shepard could've saved everyone and bombed the unpopulated area instead.  Ending colonization in a region does not necessarily cost lives... just location.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

The difference is the missile crisis had nothing at all to do with Cerberus...

And the examples you gave are typical of Cerberus,letting things slip through the net or letting things get out of hand.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 24 août 2011 - 08:31 .

[SandTrout]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Then couldn't we say for example that... with Grayson, the blame was less TIM/Cerberus than it was Anderson and the Turians?  They're technically the ones who facilitated the launch of the Grayson missle.  (not being literal).  TIM had things under control before then.

This would actually be an accurate description of fault, though it is inadvertent. TIM had every intention of killing Grayson before he became to powerful to hold, which was also related to dosing him with red sand in order to nudge along the indoctination process.

Couldn't we also blame Overlord on Archer's dumb idea instead of TIM/Cerberus who was about to shut the project down?

Yes, though TIM is still responsible for not exercising appropriate oversight on the project.

Couldn't we also blame Teltin's activities on the scientists hiding information and methods from TIM/Cerberus (in fear of what TIM would do when he found out)?

Same as the Overlord situation.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

The difference is the missile crisis had nothing at all to do with Cerberus...

While true, the missles were dangerous (but in a controlled environment) before the Batarians got there.  Similarly, Grayson was dangerous but in a controlled environment and constantly (and carefully) monitored.  The real crisis happened when the weapons were turned toward the outside galaxy.  The perpetuators of that change weren't the base workers and it wasn't TIM/Cerberus.