395 réponses à ce sujet

[KotorEffect3]

It is more important to stop them than to understand them. I want to figure out how to destroy Harbinger not find out if he has a sensitive side

[GunMoth]

Just a heads up - I don't actually believe that the reaper's are trying to harvest for galactic prosperity. The question of the thread is: Are the reapers evil? And I'm pretty much playing off of the only instance in which I think that they would not be considered evil.

I'm a devil's advocate grasping at straws.

Modifié par GunMoth, 25 août 2011 - 09:07 .

[stysiaq]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
How is that trolling?

Because no one could seriously claim the moral high ground for a horde of giant parastic monster-ships bent on endless galactic genocide.

I never claimed moral highground for anyone. I said it's irrelevent, just as I believe concepts of "good" and "evil" are generally unsuitable for anything but provoking an irrational like/dislike reaction towards the subject to which they are applied. 

If you want to look at the Reapers objectively, as I assume you do since you're crying about "moral relativism" then all you can do is assess how efficiently their methods satisfy their goal. And since they've developed technology far in excess of anything understandable by the contemporary races, and by virtue of the fact that they've existed for millions and millions of years, the only objective conclusion you can reach is that their methods are highly efficient at satisfying whatever their motivations are. 

There's your objectivity for you. Deal with it.

That's not objectivity, that's just base utilitarianism. 

The problem here is, that we don't know the Reapers motives. I think, that it is vital to render their actions good or evil (in our terms). If, for example, the 'reaping' prevents the galaxy from getting to the point of killing itself once and for all (like killing off 90% of population and moving it backwards to bronze age to prevent nuclear war), which is one of ideas I can think of and consider possible, then it is 'salvation through destructuion'.
If it is just for the reproduction, then the Reapers are not different from today's humanity, killing billions of livestock to have a meatloaf for dinner. Humanity's evil, Reapers' evil, were just another link in the food chain.
And like I said, I consider the Reapers and the Cycle part of ME universe, or 'nature'. cold hearted and cruel as it is, but tha's how it works, and it worked pretty well so far.

[GunMoth]

@stysiaq

We just had this conversation. Check out page 12.

edit: 
Nuclear war is bad - but the advancement of technology is inevitable even if you revert back to the bronze age. If you know anything about prehistory and the way things happened after the holocene, you'd know that agriculture is really the culprit. I digress. 

Modifié par GunMoth, 25 août 2011 - 09:51 .

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Arcian wrote...

No, the Reapers are not evil. They are not driven by cruelty or spite. Their motivations are much more benevolent, at least from their perspective.

We are to them what animals are to us. Some animals become our trusted companions; others are killed or ignored because they lack the qualities we want or because they pose a threat to us. Others are hunted for their resources.

Some animals choose to bend beneath the will of a master. Others fight for their freedom, til death if needed.

Sound familiar?

The image and what you associated with that is complete bull****, we have broken down matter to such small "particles/energy packets/fields" that it is definitely not a universe or anything outwardly retarded like that...

But the concept of insignificance of one form of life to another is spot on, even in a very real sense, humanity as we know it only occupies one planet, has limited capacity for viewing the universe and limited influence/effect. Theory regarding other planets which contain life is highly probable by math, who is to say that their is life out there which is greatly superior to us and indifferent to our entire existance as we would be to a small insect or bacteria or whatever. Also the definition of life, is very limited based on what we have experienced, there may be life out there beyond our comprehension....oh **** reapers inbound to earth!

[Killjoy Cutter]

stysiaq wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
How is that trolling?

Because no one could seriously claim the moral high ground for a horde of giant parastic monster-ships bent on endless galactic genocide.

I never claimed moral highground for anyone. I said it's irrelevent, just as I believe concepts of "good" and "evil" are generally unsuitable for anything but provoking an irrational like/dislike reaction towards the subject to which they are applied. 

If you want to look at the Reapers objectively, as I assume you do since you're crying about "moral relativism" then all you can do is assess how efficiently their methods satisfy their goal. And since they've developed technology far in excess of anything understandable by the contemporary races, and by virtue of the fact that they've existed for millions and millions of years, the only objective conclusion you can reach is that their methods are highly efficient at satisfying whatever their motivations are. 

There's your objectivity for you. Deal with it.

That's not objectivity, that's just base utilitarianism. 

The problem here is, that we don't know the Reapers motives. I think, that it is vital to render their actions good or evil (in our terms). If, for example, the 'reaping' prevents the galaxy from getting to the point of killing itself once and for all (like killing off 90% of population and moving it backwards to bronze age to prevent nuclear war), which is one of ideas I can think of and consider possible, then it is 'salvation through destructuion'.
If it is just for the reproduction, then the Reapers are not different from today's humanity, killing billions of livestock to have a meatloaf for dinner. Humanity's evil, Reapers' evil, were just another link in the food chain.
And like I said, I consider the Reapers and the Cycle part of ME universe, or 'nature'. cold hearted and cruel as it is, but tha's how it works, and it worked pretty well so far.

Most people dying before the age of 40 of diseases and accidents and violence and starvation is natural, too, but anyone who said that we shouldn't fight against those things would rightly be considered a lunatic or an idiot. 

[Bluko]

Hmm...

I think a lot of the opinions here are ultimately going to come down to what one considers "evil". If a Volcano erupts and kills an entire population and in effect commits genocide is that evil? No. The Volcano is a natural event, a bad one obviously to those that it killed. However people of the past would have attributed such natural events to the works of an evil being. The curse of being sapient is that we see the world for all the good and for all the bad. And when bad things happen we attempt to reconcile with ourselves that such things have evil intent behind them and that is why they happen. Going with that line of thinking of what "evil" is we believe it is possible to stop such things. However the reality is unless Humans master all aspects of the Universe, bad/evil things will happen even if every single person is of a good nature.

There's also the larger issue that as long as Humans consider themselves as individuals, forming their own judgements and making their own decisions, "true" peace can never be obtained. Even the best intentions can cause harm. Give one thirsty man a glass of water and you ultimately deny another. Resources are limited and as best we may try to share it's doubtful resources can or ever will be distributed fairly. As long as individuals are self-serving there will always be some sort of conflict. Mayhaps one day we can stop killing each other via things like war and the greatest conflict we'll have will be Pepperoni vs. Sausage for pizza toppings.

Anyways, personally I see evil as...

The intent of a sapient being to cause harm to other sentient creatures purely for entertainment/satisfaction with no other underlying reasons (such as survival).


I do not think the Reapers kill us simply because it's fun or for the LOLs as some might put it. The Reapers obviously have some sort of reason for doing what they do. And from what little we know from Sovereign and Harbinger the Reapers obviously believe they are doing the right thing for us.

Although I think most of us would agree the manner in which the Reapers are going about what they do is wrong, because they are making decisions for us when ultimately if it is truly the best option the Reapers should allow us to come to the same conclusion ourselves. But they aren't. They are using force to impose what they believe and if we believe differently we are certainly entitled to fight them. The war with the Reapers is really just another fight for survival, both for them and us.

Modifié par Bluko, 26 août 2011 - 12:28 .

[VaultingFrog]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

VaultingFrog wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

VaultingFrog wrote...

GunMoth wrote...
I'm going to assume by "Salvation" he means we will become a part of something much greater. The idea of a reaper is pretty similar to some religious concepts. Beyond life we are one in the same  - or rather, that we are all a part of one thing. 

However, it depends on what their goal is. If it is simply reproduction for no reason - it is a paracitic existence. If there is an ultimate goal - then perhaps its worth death. Maybe there is an even larger threat. Maybe the reapers are the only things keeping the universe stable for some magical reason. We simply do not know. Any ethical debate on whether the reapers are good or bad ultimately comes down to their intentions. 

Assumptions are dangerous. But you are right, it comes down to their intentions and we know almost nothing beond what Harbinger said.

And I don't care what their intentions are, their actions have been, are, and will be evil.

Sigh... they are evil from your perspective yes. We have been over this for several pages now i think....

No, they're just evil. 

All this dancing around wondering about motivations and intentions and perspectives is ignoring the real issue:  the Reapers act to destroy or assimilate all non-Reaper thinking beings, and will do absolutely anything to achieve that end.  This makes them evil.  End of story.  There is no justification for their ends or their means. 

We wouldn't be having this discussion at all if we were talking about real people doing the kinds of things the Reapers do, in real life, to other real people.  The only question would be "what are we doing to stop them:?

I have not danced around any issue, you have just flat out dismissed even the possibility of perspectives different from your own. How am I supposed to converse with somebody who utterly denighs this fact? Honestly, I really do not know how.

I am not trying to convince anybody that the Reapers are benevolent or anything. I absolutely believe that what they are doing is wrong, however that still does not mean they do not believe that they are in the right. I give them that, even if I dont agree with their actions.

I am not sure how I could be any clearer than this...

Good and evil are titles given to voice certain perspectives. That is it. Who's perspective it is, and why is what this whole thing is about. The universe is not black and white no matter how much you wish it to be and you will never be right when it comes to perspectives from other people. Your own perspective is correct for only one person, and that is you. I do not understand how you can think that bludgening people with "WRONG THEY ARE EVIL END OF STORY" is acceptable. You are voicing only one perspective out of millions, perhaps billions. Not all will agree with you and even the ones who do might not come to that conclusion in the manor you have.

I honestly feel sorry for you for having such a seemingly narrow view upon everything. I really hope that the cruel reality of different perspectives comes back to kick your arse into the stoneage. I really dont want that but flat out refusing to admit that there are different perspectives in every matter is a sure fire way for it to happen.

Also to arrogently assume you  know their motovations when you know next to nothing about them is obsurde at the very least. You really have no idea why they are doing what they have been doing for millions of years. I would be shocked to find that if it ment the survival of you and your whole race against an alien force that you would hesitate to use a bioweapon. It is a horrid weapon but through your own moralities and perceptions of events it is completely justified. Its not a great choice but it is a choice none the less. 

I really hope that you take these things to heart and open up a bit. Otherwise I feel like you will live in conflict with the whole world your entire life for no other reason than because you have to be right any everybody else is wrong.

Oh and I have every right to be offended at being grouped in with those people as you were refering to people who were conversing with you as making excuses along the lines of trying to excuse Hitler and his thugs. That is very offensive to me. And honestly even if you go back and edit your post nothing will have changed, the damage was done. I would hope you would never do something like that again.

Modifié par VaultingFrog, 26 août 2011 - 01:08 .

[Dark_Caduceus]

No more evil than the Biology student that kills mice for dissection, at least from their perspective.

[Killjoy Cutter]

VaultingFrog wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

VaultingFrog wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

VaultingFrog wrote...

GunMoth wrote...
I'm going to assume by "Salvation" he means we will become a part of something much greater. The idea of a reaper is pretty similar to some religious concepts. Beyond life we are one in the same  - or rather, that we are all a part of one thing. 

However, it depends on what their goal is. If it is simply reproduction for no reason - it is a paracitic existence. If there is an ultimate goal - then perhaps its worth death. Maybe there is an even larger threat. Maybe the reapers are the only things keeping the universe stable for some magical reason. We simply do not know. Any ethical debate on whether the reapers are good or bad ultimately comes down to their intentions. 

Assumptions are dangerous. But you are right, it comes down to their intentions and we know almost nothing beond what Harbinger said.

And I don't care what their intentions are, their actions have been, are, and will be evil.

Sigh... they are evil from your perspective yes. We have been over this for several pages now i think....

No, they're just evil. 

All this dancing around wondering about motivations and intentions and perspectives is ignoring the real issue:  the Reapers act to destroy or assimilate all non-Reaper thinking beings, and will do absolutely anything to achieve that end.  This makes them evil.  End of story.  There is no justification for their ends or their means. 

We wouldn't be having this discussion at all if we were talking about real people doing the kinds of things the Reapers do, in real life, to other real people.  The only question would be "what are we doing to stop them:?

I have not danced around any issue, you have just flat out dismissed even the possibility of perspectives different from your own. How am I supposed to converse with somebody who utterly denighs this fact? Honestly, I really do not know how.

I am not trying to convince anybody that the Reapers are benevolent or anything. I absolutely believe that what they are doing is wrong, however that still does not mean they do not believe that they are in the right. I give them that, even if I dont agree with their actions.

I am not sure how I could be any clearer than this...

Good and evil are titles given to voice certain perspectives. That is it. Who's perspective it is, and why is what this whole thing is about. The universe is not black and white no matter how much you wish it to be and you will never be right when it comes to perspectives from other people. Your own perspective is correct for only one person, and that is you. I do not understand how you can think that bludgening people with "WRONG THEY ARE EVIL END OF STORY" is acceptable. You are voicing only one perspective out of millions, perhaps billions. Not all will agree with you and even the ones who do might not come to that conclusion in the manor you have.

I honestly feel sorry for you for having such a seemingly narrow view upon everything. I really hope that the cruel reality of different perspectives comes back to kick your arse into the stoneage. I really dont want that but flat out refusing to admit that there are different perspectives in every matter is a sure fire way for it to happen.

Also to arrogently assume you  know their motovations when you know next to nothing about them is obsurde at the very least. You really have no idea why they are doing what they have been doing for millions of years. I would be shocked to find that if it ment the survival of you and your whole race against an alien force that you would hesitate to use a bioweapon. It is a horrid weapon but through your own moralities and perceptions of events it is completely justified. Its not a great choice but it is a choice none the less. 

I really hope that you take these things to heart and open up a bit. Otherwise I feel like you will live in conflict with the whole world your entire life for no other reason than because you have to be right any everybody else is wrong.

Oh and I have every right to be offended at being grouped in with those people as you were refering to people who were conversing with you as making excuses along the lines of trying to excuse Hitler and his thugs. That is very offensive to me. And honestly even if you go back and edit your post nothing will have changed, the damage was done. I would hope you would never do something like that again.

I never said that different perspectives don't exist, I said that there's no perspective relevent in discussion of what is truly evil. 

As for the comparison, don't make excuses for beings doing things that are comparable to what Those Guys did, and you won't be compared to people making excuses for Those Guys.  EDIT:  The only difference being that what Those Guys did was terribly real...

To borrow an internet cliche, genocidal Reapers are genocidal. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 26 août 2011 - 03:33 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

No more evil than the Biology student that kills mice for dissection, at least from their perspective.

The mice aren't thinking. fully aware beings. 

The people that the Reapers do their experiments on, turn into husks, kill, etc, ARE.

[VaultingFrog]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
I never said that different perspectives don't exist, I said that there's no perspective relevent in discussion of what is truly evil. 

As for the comparison, don't make excuses for beings doing things that are comparable to what Those Guys did, and you won't be compared to people making excuses for Those Guys.

To borrow an internet cliche, genocidal Reapers are genocidal. 

Ok let me make this as simple as possible so I can stop dealing with idiocy....

1: Every perspective is valid as it is unique to the individual. Yours is no mor valid than mine and in this case no more valid that the Reapers perspective in this fictional universe. That is the bottom line, no if's and's or but's about it. If you do not understand this concept then that is your own damn fault but please stop trying to prove that only your perspective matters because it simply is not the case.

2: I never have, nor never will make excuses for such acts. I am simply outlining multiple perspectives which you seem to ignore because they disagree with your fragil sense of worth in the world. TO FREEKING BAD.

I never have nor ever will support actions such as what Hitler did, nor in the case of Mass Effect, the actions of the Reapers. I find them to be wrong, but only according to my personal perspective. That does not invalidate their own perspectives, whatever they may or may not be.

Is this clear enough for you? I can resort to caveman grunts if required in order to get this through to you because it is completely obsene that you denigh any other viewpoint other than your own.

I am tired of dealing with this idiocy. I did what I could to make it stop with reasoned arguments which were clearly discarded. There is no fault on my part when reality hits you in the face with a hammer because you find out that your view point is not the center of the universe and everything is not ment to do its bidding.

[Destroy Raiden_]

They want to kill us even if they want to dress it up under the guise of ascension they're still killing our humanity and transforming us into husk machines so it's still not us maintaining an independent organic life. So yeah on that alone they're evil, should be destroyed, and if a new foe rises up to take their place similar to how the Ori did the Goulds then we'll kick their assets too. I see no reason to let me snuff out my species for a the backwards honor they perceive as ascension.

[Saaziel]

Bluko wrote...

[i]The intent of a sapient being to cause harm to other sentient creatures purely for entertainment/satisfaction with no other underlying reasons (such as survival).

Well said. Not only in what was written but also in tone.

Posts like these are well worth going through all the rest of it.

Keep it up.

[RidgeRunner5]

 I can honestly see things from the perspective of the Reapers. There is usually only one or two dominant species on a planet, and seemingly in an entire system.

The Reapers go and wipe out all advanced life, and seem to spare any lesser species as long as they don't happen to be in the same area as the advanced ones. This allows a new species to rise up to a high level of intelligence, a species that would likely be squashed by the already advanced one if they were discovered (see Geth, Planet of the Apes, etc).

The Reaper's purpose in life is to foster the development of new species in the galaxy.

[Killjoy Cutter]

VaultingFrog wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
I never said that different perspectives don't exist, I said that there's no perspective relevent in discussion of what is truly evil. 

As for the comparison, don't make excuses for beings doing things that are comparable to what Those Guys did, and you won't be compared to people making excuses for Those Guys.

To borrow an internet cliche, genocidal Reapers are genocidal. 

Ok let me make this as simple as possible so I can stop dealing with idiocy....

1: Every perspective is valid as it is unique to the individual. Yours is no mor valid than mine and in this case no more valid that the Reapers perspective in this fictional universe. That is the bottom line, no if's and's or but's about it. If you do not understand this concept then that is your own damn fault but please stop trying to prove that only your perspective matters because it simply is not the case.

2: I never have, nor never will make excuses for such acts. I am simply outlining multiple perspectives which you seem to ignore because they disagree with your fragil sense of worth in the world. TO FREEKING BAD.

I never have nor ever will support actions such as what Hitler did, nor in the case of Mass Effect, the actions of the Reapers. I find them to be wrong, but only according to my personal perspective. That does not invalidate their own perspectives, whatever they may or may not be.

Is this clear enough for you? I can resort to caveman grunts if required in order to get this through to you because it is completely obsene that you denigh any other viewpoint other than your own.

I am tired of dealing with this idiocy. I did what I could to make it stop with reasoned arguments which were clearly discarded. There is no fault on my part when reality hits you in the face with a hammer because you find out that your view point is not the center of the universe and everything is not ment to do its bidding.

Wow, way to resort to personal attacks there, chief.  Really makes your argument look solid... or not. 

And you're making a lot of silly assumptions about my thought process based only on my disagreement with your one premise that all perspectives are equal and that they are relevent in discussing the truly evil. 

[MGIII]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

No more evil than the Biology student that kills mice for dissection, at least from their perspective.

The mice aren't thinking. fully aware beings. 

The people that the Reapers do their experiments on, turn into husks, kill, etc, ARE.

So, bascally, because it isn't human, it's okay. Gotcha. You just justified the Reapers' crusade.

[Killjoy Cutter]

MGIII wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

No more evil than the Biology student that kills mice for dissection, at least from their perspective.

The mice aren't thinking. fully aware beings. 

The people that the Reapers do their experiments on, turn into husks, kill, etc, ARE.

So, bascally, because it isn't human, it's okay. Gotcha. You just justified the Reapers' crusade.

No, I didn't.  You, however, made a completely unsupported assumption about what I was saying. 

First, to be right, you'd need to point to where I said "human" in my post. 

Second, in the dual contexts of the Mass Effect setting and "thinking beings", Asari, Turians, Krogan, Quarians, Hanar, Drell, Elcor, Volus, etc, are all people. 

[Balek-Vriege]

MGIII wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

No more evil than the Biology student that kills mice for dissection, at least from their perspective.

The mice aren't thinking. fully aware beings. 

The people that the Reapers do their experiments on, turn into husks, kill, etc, ARE.

So, bascally, because it isn't human, it's okay. Gotcha. You just justified the Reapers' crusade.

To the Reapers our thought processes are like those of mice and to them we are not fully "aware."  If you could ask a mouse, I bet they would rather survive than die.  We don't really care though, since mice aren't seen as important in our world view or comparable to our intellectual prowess and importance.  If we needed mice to reproduce ourselves and needed their genetic code to achieve perfection (whatever that is), it wouldn't take long for us to make "mice farms" where we breed the smartest most adaptable mice, then infuse ourselves with them.  That's sort of what the Reapers are doing to the galaxy.

From our point of view that doesn't change the fact that their actions unnaturally and suddenly deny any galactic species the right to exist and develop naturally.  There's no:
 
"Oh look you developed a long lines we consider perfection and managed to survive evolution.  Aww look at you you're perfect!  Welcome to the ascended club!"


It's more:

"Well you got this far, but your evolutionary road ends here as you know it.  We're taking control and we're going to kill you and your dog, then melt down the survivors into perfection soup for ascension."


They're evil.

[ubermensch007]

"Are the Reapers Really evil?"

Hmm... You know I had a good convo with Lumikki a couple of weeks ago about this very topic.

The way I see it is like this: The word "evil" itself has inherrent  spirtual or religous conotations to it.To me whether the Reapers could be called "Evil" is irrelevent - for all that matters is this:

- They seek to enslave us

- Kill us

- And as Jack put it,"Turn us into some - F*CKED UP - Bug Things!

The Reapers are a threat to our way of life.(And that is not something that I will tolerate.) And that's all that really matters...

[Icinix]

Are the Reapers Evil?

Yes.

Really Evil?

Yes.

Really, really Evil?

Yes. Thank you. Next person please.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

MGIII wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

No more evil than the Biology student that kills mice for dissection, at least from their perspective.

The mice aren't thinking. fully aware beings. 

The people that the Reapers do their experiments on, turn into husks, kill, etc, ARE.

So, bascally, because it isn't human, it's okay. Gotcha. You just justified the Reapers' crusade.

To the Reapers our thought processes are like those of mice and to them we are not fully "aware."  If you could ask a mouse, I bet they would rather survive than die.  We don't really care though, since mice aren't seen as important in our world view or comparable to our intellectual prowess and importance.  If we needed mice to reproduce ourselves and needed their genetic code to achieve perfection (whatever that is), it wouldn't take long for us to make "mice farms" where we breed the smartest most adaptable mice, then infuse ourselves with them.  That's sort of what the Reapers are doing to the galaxy.

From our point of view that doesn't change the fact that their actions unnaturally and suddenly deny any galactic species the right to exist and develop naturally.  There's no:
 
"Oh look you developed a long lines we consider perfection and managed to survive evolution.  Aww look at you you're perfect!  Welcome to the ascended club!"


It's more:

"Well you got this far, but your evolutionary road ends here as you know it.  We're taking control and we're going to kill you and your dog, then melt down the survivors into perfection soup for ascension."


They're evil.

I really don't buy the whole "To them, we're ants" line of thinking that often comes up in these discussions. 

[Balek-Vriege]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

MGIII wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

No more evil than the Biology student that kills mice for dissection, at least from their perspective.

The mice aren't thinking. fully aware beings. 

The people that the Reapers do their experiments on, turn into husks, kill, etc, ARE.

So, bascally, because it isn't human, it's okay. Gotcha. You just justified the Reapers' crusade.

To the Reapers our thought processes are like those of mice and to them we are not fully "aware."  If you could ask a mouse, I bet they would rather survive than die.  We don't really care though, since mice aren't seen as important in our world view or comparable to our intellectual prowess and importance.  If we needed mice to reproduce ourselves and needed their genetic code to achieve perfection (whatever that is), it wouldn't take long for us to make "mice farms" where we breed the smartest most adaptable mice, then infuse ourselves with them.  That's sort of what the Reapers are doing to the galaxy.

From our point of view that doesn't change the fact that their actions unnaturally and suddenly deny any galactic species the right to exist and develop naturally.  There's no:
 
"Oh look you developed a long lines we consider perfection and managed to survive evolution.  Aww look at you you're perfect!  Welcome to the ascended club!"


It's more:

"Well you got this far, but your evolutionary road ends here as you know it.  We're taking control and we're going to kill you and your dog, then melt down the survivors into perfection soup for ascension."


They're evil.

I really don't buy the whole "To them, we're ants" line of thinking that often comes up in these discussions. 

In terms of importance we're like ants compared to them, because they consider themselves perfection/gods and we're just unevolved organic intelligences who have ascended to their higher state of being.  However, we might be important to their "master plan" and they may even see us like children needing to be saved from themselves, for the good of the galaxy.  "Salvation through Destruction" mantra Harbinger hints at this.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

MGIII wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

No more evil than the Biology student that kills mice for dissection, at least from their perspective.

The mice aren't thinking. fully aware beings. 

The people that the Reapers do their experiments on, turn into husks, kill, etc, ARE.

So, bascally, because it isn't human, it's okay. Gotcha. You just justified the Reapers' crusade.

To the Reapers our thought processes are like those of mice and to them we are not fully "aware."  If you could ask a mouse, I bet they would rather survive than die.  We don't really care though, since mice aren't seen as important in our world view or comparable to our intellectual prowess and importance.  If we needed mice to reproduce ourselves and needed their genetic code to achieve perfection (whatever that is), it wouldn't take long for us to make "mice farms" where we breed the smartest most adaptable mice, then infuse ourselves with them.  That's sort of what the Reapers are doing to the galaxy.

From our point of view that doesn't change the fact that their actions unnaturally and suddenly deny any galactic species the right to exist and develop naturally.  There's no:
 
"Oh look you developed a long lines we consider perfection and managed to survive evolution.  Aww look at you you're perfect!  Welcome to the ascended club!"


It's more:

"Well you got this far, but your evolutionary road ends here as you know it.  We're taking control and we're going to kill you and your dog, then melt down the survivors into perfection soup for ascension."


They're evil.

I really don't buy the whole "To them, we're ants" line of thinking that often comes up in these discussions. 

In terms of importance we're like ants compared to them, because they consider themselves perfection/gods and we're just unevolved organic intelligences who have ascended to their higher state of being.  However, we might be important to their "master plan" and they may even see us like children needing to be saved from themselves, for the good of the galaxy.  "Salvation through Destruction" mantra Harbinger hints at this.

They might consider humans and other as "ants", what wouldn't make it true.