395 réponses à ce sujet

[VaultingFrog]

Dionkey wrote...

VaultingFrog wrote...
If evolution is not worth it then why make the effort to become a Reaper? It is a form of evolution, though one that has no future.

You have to take into consideration that in years hence the people of the galaxy (as I do believe there are other beings out there besides us) will find new and challenging obsticals to overcome. Intergalactic travel could be one of them. I hope you realize how large the universe is and continues to grow into. That space is full of possibilities and far to vast to concieve of all of them. By the time we explore our own galaxy Billions of other galaxies will have been made and destroyed. Would that not intrest beings into pushing our limits to see what has never been seen before? To find new friends, or dangerious enemies beond what has ever been found?

The possibilities are stagering and we are just at the forefront of being able to start such an undertaking.

Perhaps, but I think once you've seen the entire galaxy and the many species it has to offer, it becomes redundant to enter another one. Different planets, different stars, different species, but they are simply different variations of what we already know. By this time, they have unlocked the keys to the universe. The only question left is; Who created it all? But that's a question that cannot and will not be answered.

Thats just it though, you will never see all that has been created because new life and new events are being created all the time. It is an ever shifting universe out there. From what we have seen here on Earth we know almost nothing beond our own atmosphere as we can only see the far distant past. For all we know new events the likes of which have never been seen or will be seen again have happend.

If they are different then how do we already know them? Each species, each planet, each star brings something different to the universe, and in a blink of an eye it is all gone again, replaced by something new. We are but dust drifting on the wind, inconsiquential in the larger picture but beautiful all the same. A spark of light where a civilization millions of lightyears away will view one day and marvel at who we were and what we could do.

Dont limit yourself to just the here and now. The future is unknown and that is exciting.

[Dionkey]

Goneaviking wrote...

Dionkey wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...
Culture and stories have always travelled widely for thousands of years and they've been tremendously influential wherever they've wandered.

It's not for nothing that the Iliad and the legend of Gilgamesh were spread around as formal histories once writing developed far enough, but even before that they had travelled widely and were being repeated ad nauseam by professional storytellers, by parents, priests and historians. Nor is it coincidental that the Song of Roland was composed during the crusades, and even less so that it distorted the history to further the cultural imperatives of the time.

But these are only a few stories. Today, we have access to 1000's of new stories a day. Back then, people actually had to explore to see things. Nowadays, you can travel and see the worlds monuments with a quick google search. The world is much more underwhelming and thus hurts imagination.

And yet the time I spent in China and India dramatically impacted my understanding of the world, and my relations with people. Google does not even come close to comparing with actually visiting a different culture and speaking with people you never dreamed existed.

It's worth remembering that more people travel now than ever have in the past.

But the sense of awe and exploration is gone. Is there still plenty of interesting stuff to see? Sure! But the sense of coming in to Paris the first time and see the towering Eiffle Tower or landing in New York City and see the busy streets of people is all to be expected and thus takes away from the awe factor.

Anyway, this is getting a little off-topic so I am going to stop arguing this point now.

[kankan9000]

"We are your salvation through destruction."
"Prepare these humans for ascension."
I hope sentences like these really have some implications in ME3, not just some boastful statement.

[Dionkey]

kankan9000 wrote...

"We are your salvation through destruction."
"Prepare these humans for ascension."
I hope sentences like these really have some implications in ME3, not just some boastful statement.

They pretty much explain what happens in the collector base. The Reapers obviously believe they are helping you by transforming you.

[marstor05]

The Reapers are destroying civillizations. They are not 'saving' anyone. Conversion just assures them of being the dominant race - as no one species can evolve properly to challenge them.

[SandTrout]

Luc0s wrote...

The reapers don't die of old age. So the reapers don't need to reproduce, they don't do it solely to survive.

The reapers believe they're the pinnacle of evolution and they want to convert other species to reapers too, much like the religious fundamentalists on earth. 

What he said.

[SkittlesKat96]

Well I wouldn't say they are evil...like others have said evil is such a weird/not very correct term.

Whether the Reapers are doing something for the good of the world, whether they are a mistake, whether they are sapient and have feelings or how they are programmed we have absolutely no idea.

I believe that there is a reason why they harvest that goes beyond just sustaining themselves.

Something really specific, something that the civilizations of the galaxy do or have in them that the Reapers benefit from. And I also believe that the Protheans were a failed harvest, or an error possibly.

I just struggle to accept that the Protheans just got lucky and have set the Reapers plans on a crash course. I also find it strange that the Reapers were very far in their technological advancement (they were researching dark energy and stuff) yet we haven't heard of any other species. Maybe the Prothean empire counted as many different species, maybe they committed genocide against the other species and that is what made the Reapers harvest them (perhaps the Reapers don't need slaves or harvested resources to sustain themselves?) or maybe they just absorbed all the other species through evolution or something.

Also I have a theory about what the Reapers want with Shepard: http://social.biowar...79139/1#8179139

Nothing too interesting or surprising but still, someone might find it interesting

EDIT: Maybe the Reapers do want to absorb other people and maybe they are just amassing a massive empire of themselves...that is actually surprisingly logical actually.

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 25 août 2011 - 10:01 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Luc0s wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Actually, historically, meat was a very good thing for the human species.

Now, as for the Reapers, your statement about them not being able to communicate with other species makes me doubt that you've actually played the game. 

Actually, historically, our distant ancestors were herbivores and didn't eat meat at all. Then, the early humans only eated a little bit of meat, much like the chimpanzees. Then later, when humans evolved furter, we started to eat more meat. And now, in the present time, we eat so much meat that it's too much. We eat more meat than is good for us. We eat so much meat that it isn't healty anymore. Eating less meat (say, only 3 times a week) is much more healty.

It is highly likely that the homonid brain would not have been able to develop into the brain of ****** sapiens over time without the extra calories and protein provided by the consumption of meat. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

From another thread:

jamesp81 wrote...
The reapers do indeed destroy all individuality and free will. For this reason alone, they are profoundly evil. Not profoundly different, profoundly alien, or of a profoundly different culture.

Profoundly. Evil.

Only one thing to do with that....

^ This.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 25 août 2011 - 03:39 .

[Uszi]

Meh, I think that it's a bit of a perspective issue. Evil is a human notion, one that is a bit obvious for us when we're talking about immortal genocidal murder machines.

I have a feeling that the Reapers don't really know/care about good vs. evil.

So from our human perspective, the reapers are evil.

From a non-human perspective... well, no one cares.  It's not really useful for us to consider a non-human perspective, it certainly isn't practical to do so, and the extent that we can even think about a non-human perspective is very limited.

Modifié par Uszi, 25 août 2011 - 03:40 .

[marshalleck]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

From another thread:

jamesp81 wrote...
The reapers do indeed destroy all individuality and free will. For this reason alone, they are profoundly evil. Not profoundly different, profoundly alien, or of a profoundly different culture.

Profoundly. Evil.

Only one thing to do with that....

^ This.

Your free will is an illusion, and the individual is not more important than the collective. 

[Vicious]

Is this a joke thread? I am staggered by the amount of nonsense here.

Evil is an invention. A human invention that attempts to explain what is beyond human understanding. Good is a blanket concept that covers up fear of consequence and death. There is no 'good' or 'evil' there is just change that is beneficial or harmful sandwiched between life and death and the struggle to survive.

This struggle for survival creates 'heroes' like Shepard.

But there is no bravery in necessity.

[stysiaq]

 The Reapers are not evil. It's just what they do. This is the nature of ME universe, and it has been like that for more time than we can imagine.

They are not driven by hatred for organics.

Also, they lay ground for future species to evolve, rise, then degenerate and fall, and finally be wiped out.

If there's a chance to NOT stop the Reapers, I'll do it with my canon Shepard.

EDIT: I agree with Vicious. The 'Evil' is just an abstract concept, a label we put on something that endangers us. From our perspective, the Reapers are 'evil', and from our perspective our fight is 'good'.

Modifié par stysiaq, 25 août 2011 - 04:08 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

marshalleck wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

From another thread:

jamesp81 wrote...
The reapers do indeed destroy all individuality and free will. For this reason alone, they are profoundly evil. Not profoundly different, profoundly alien, or of a profoundly different culture.

Profoundly. Evil.

Only one thing to do with that....

^ This.

Your free will is an illusion, and the individual is not more important than the collective. 

Whatever.

Determinist nimwit.

[Killjoy Cutter]

The postmodernist moral relativism on this thread is pathetic.

[stysiaq]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The postmodernist moral relativism on this thread is pathetic.

Then change the thread, you deserve better.

A question was raised - are the Reapers really evil. Did you expect all of the people to shout "OMG they look like giant metal squids, squids are god awful also they kill people over and over again sure they r evil!!!!11oneoneoneeleven!11" ?

We're talking Sci-fi here, and the way it is described, it looks in MY opinion, that theres more than little logic in not opposing the nature of the universe.

Also, glad you know sch smart words. Good for you.

[marshalleck]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The postmodernist moral relativism on this thread is pathetic.

Indeed. If one were to look at this objectively, it would be hard to argue that the Reapers are not the ones with a superior system of beliefs and actions. They've unlocked the physical mysteries of the universe and have existed for millions of years. Organic civilization on the other hand is unstable and more than likely will kill itself off before ever achieving a level of existence comparable to the Reapers without assistance. 

Good and Evil are useless terms for this discussion. Better is to say 'correct' or 'effective' in relation to achieving ones goals, whatever those may be. In the case of survival and longevity, clearly the Reapers are acting on a correct and efficient model.

Modifié par marshalleck, 25 août 2011 - 04:40 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

marshalleck wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The postmodernist moral relativism on this thread is pathetic.

Indeed. If one were to look at this objectively, it would be hard to argue that the Reapers are not the ones with a superior system of beliefs and actions. They've unlocked the physical mysteries of the universe and have existed for millions of years. Organic civilization on the other hand is unstable and more than likely will kill itself off before ever achieving a level of existence comparable to the Reapers without assistance. 

Good and Evil are useless terms for this discussion. Better is to say 'correct' or 'effective' in relation to achieving ones goals, whatever those may be. In the case of survival and longevity, clearly the Reapers are acting on a correct and efficient model.

Troll.

[marshalleck]

How is that trolling?

[Killjoy Cutter]

marshalleck wrote...

How is that trolling?

Because no one could seriously claim the moral high ground for a horde of giant parastic monster-ships bent on endless galactic genocide.

[VaultingFrog]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

How is that trolling?

Because no one could seriously claim the moral high ground for a horde of giant parastic monster-ships bent on endless galactic genocide.

Morality is pure perspective nothing more. From our view point the Reapers seem "evil" (term used to give voice to a perspective). From their point of view humanity and or the rest of the galaxy could be evil. I wouldnt know as I am not a Reaper.

This thread originally started out as an attempt to argue perspective with incomplete data. Nobody knows a Reapers perspective because nobody is a Reaper. Just like you can not argue about what your mother percieves as it is her perceptions on events, even though yours are completely different on the same event. Nobody is wrong in this matter.