37 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

Two words.

SUICIDE PILL.

[TEWR]

They can't just remove the women from being fighters. Paragon Astyth the Grey fought for women to be able to be soldiers. She devoted herself to training night and day, and even cut out her tongue. She trained and trained until she won a Grand Proving bare-handed.

She should've won it with bear hands though

Anyway, they need to at least instruct the Dwarven women on what the Darkspawn do to female captives, and I imagine they do know and do teach this. From what we've seen, there has never been an expedition with female soldiers (save for Sigrun's expedition with the Legion of the Dead).

you know what I find odd? The Legion of the Dead spirits in Bownammar can apparently hurt the party but those spirits won't attack the Darkspawn all around them. Stupid dead Dwarves...

[Sepewrath]

Well they only attack you after you interact with the altar, the DS don't mess with it.

[TEWR]

Yea but their whole life was devoted to fighting the Darkspawn. You'd think that if they're still alive (sort of) they'd continue to fight them.

[Siduri]

They can't just remove the women from being fighters. Paragon Astyth the Grey fought for women to be able to be soldiers. She devoted herself to training night and day, and even cut out her tongue. She trained and trained until she won a Grand Proving bare-handed.

I know, and Astyth is awesome (so is Sigrun--my Warden Aeducan was totally hitting that, sorry Leiliana), but if you have an enemy that reproduces using your women then it makes no sense to put your women on the front lines. I can accept that dwarves do this, in-game, because of Astyth and their ancestor reverence, but it's still a reaaaaallly dumb thing to do, strategically (and it doesn't explain why they also hand over female criminals, as with the dwarven noble if you roll a female).

I'll go ahead and say that I'm just assuming female Grey Wardens are immune from being made into Broodmothers, or otherwise the Calling is an insane tradition too.

I just thought of one way to fanwank this. If it were true that, say, infertile women could not be made into Broodmothers (that is, if fertility can be twisted and changed but it can't be implanted if it's not there to start with)...then perhaps the dwarven women who join the Legion, or the regular army, undergo sterilization first? That would be again not a good thing to have going on for dwarven society, big-picture, given their declining population, but I can see it fitting into the existing notions we're shown of dwarven honor, duty, and sacrifice.

Modifié par Siduri, 24 août 2011 - 11:47 .

[Sepewrath]

Well I wouldn't think the persons body has any effect on them becoming a broodmother. I mean they turn them into giant monsters, that spit out hundreds if not thousands of Darkspawn. I don't think fertility factors into this lol. And I could imagine that Wardens are immune to the taint and that DS try to kill them on sight, well as long as they aren't on the Larius level yet.

[TEWR]

Siduri wrote...

They can't just remove the women from being fighters. Paragon Astyth the Grey fought for women to be able to be soldiers. She devoted herself to training night and day, and even cut out her tongue. She trained and trained until she won a Grand Proving bare-handed.

I know, and Astyth is awesome (so is Sigrun--my Warden Aeducan was totally hitting that, sorry Leiliana), but if you have an enemy that reproduces using your women then it makes no sense to put your women on the front lines. I can accept that dwarves do this, in-game, because of Astyth and their ancestor reverence, but it's still a reaaaaallly dumb thing to do, strategically (and it doesn't explain why they also hand over female criminals, as with the dwarven noble if you roll a female).

I'll go ahead and say that I'm just assuming female Grey Wardens are immune from being made into Broodmothers, or otherwise the Calling is an insane tradition too.

I just thought of kind of an awesome way to fanwank this. If it were true that, say, infertile women could not be made into Broodmothers (that is, if fertility can be twisted and changed but it can't be implanted if it's not there to start with)...then perhaps the dwarven women who join the Legion, or the regular army, undergo sterilization first? That would be again not a good thing to have going on for dwarven society, big-picture, given their declining population, but I can see it fitting into the existing notions we're shown of dwarven honor, duty, and sacrifice.

Considering that removing female fighters from the army would weaken them even further, as much as the Dwarves may not like the idea of them fighting for that reason, they know they have to keep them. 

I'm sure they know about Dwarven women being made into broodmothers. They do in my fanfic of the ideal story of DAO with Xanthos Aeducan as the leader of the Wardens in the Origin stories and the companions .

Really, all they can do at this point in time is let them fight, but tell them to kill themselves if they get caught. Until they don't have to worry about the Darkspawn as much, then they are stuck. And even then, it'll be a tough road for them to go down.

[Herr Uhl]

Sepewrath wrote...

Well I wouldn't think the persons body has any effect on them becoming a broodmother. I mean they turn them into giant monsters, that spit out hundreds if not thousands of Darkspawn. I don't think fertility factors into this lol. And I could imagine that Wardens are immune to the taint and that DS try to kill them on sight, well as long as they aren't on the Larius level yet.

It apparently does.

[Sepewrath]

Well that was an incredibly ambiguous answer, that only seems to further confuse lol. Because we know female Wardens are not infertile as proved by Fiona. Also never knew they didn't classify Broodmothers as Darkspawn, if their not Darkspawn, how are they alive? I remember the codex saying that Ghouls die after a few months. Well if they are special ghouls that can live despite their condition, don't see why they cant bypass fertility, particularly since Gaider said, they don't mate in the traditional sense.

[TobiTobsen]

Sepewrath wrote...

Well that was an incredibly ambiguous answer, that only seems to further confuse lol. Because we know female Wardens are not infertile as proved by Fiona. Also never knew they didn't classify Broodmothers as Darkspawn, if their not Darkspawn, how are they alive? I remember the codex saying that Ghouls die after a few months. Well if they are special ghouls that can live despite their condition, don't see why they cant bypass fertility, particularly since Gaider said, they don't mate in the traditional sense.

They are mostly infertile or/and all of them have one hard time to conceive. Sucks to be the exception in that case.

Probably also the reason why there are so many male and so few female wardens. At least if we believe that Alistair informations are the norm.

[ourimaler]

I don't think we really know enough about the Darkspawn and their logistics to assume that reducing their supply of broodmothers would make a difference.

I mean...for all we know, maybe the Darkspawn already have fifty times more broodmothers than they can actually use. Maybe every currently living broodmother could in theory produce fifty times more Darkspawn than she currently is, and the limiting factor isn't the number of broodmothers, but the amount of food the horde can bring to them (since they need organic matter to produce new darkspawn).

[Herr Uhl]

Sepewrath wrote...

Well that was an incredibly ambiguous answer, that only seems to further confuse lol. Because we know female Wardens are not infertile as proved by Fiona. Also never knew they didn't classify Broodmothers as Darkspawn, if their not Darkspawn, how are they alive? I remember the codex saying that Ghouls die after a few months. Well if they are special ghouls that can live despite their condition, don't see why they cant bypass fertility, particularly since Gaider said, they don't mate in the traditional sense.

They are Ghouls, and they are fed. That is how they're alive. Who said that they're alive more than a few months?

And I assume the amount of darkspawn they can concieve is the amount of viable eggs still left inside them, thus fertility matters.

[Rifneno]

ourimaler wrote...

I don't think we really know enough about the Darkspawn and their logistics to assume that reducing their supply of broodmothers would make a difference.

I mean...for all we know, maybe the Darkspawn already have fifty times more broodmothers than they can actually use. Maybe every currently living broodmother could in theory produce fifty times more Darkspawn than she currently is, and the limiting factor isn't the number of broodmothers, but the amount of food the horde can bring to them (since they need organic matter to produce new darkspawn).

That's an awful lot of assumption necessary to support the dwarves being idiots. And if that is the case, why aren't the darkspawn out gathering food more? Them kidnapping people is just about unheard of, as can be seen by the "omgwtf?" reactions of everyone after the attack on Vigil's Keep at the opening of Awakening where the Architect had his disciples bring some of the victims back. They can't be gathering plant matter either since very little of it grows in the Deep Roads and they rarely go to the surface except during a blight.

Anyway, seriously, it wouldn't be that hard to create some kind of mechanism in the helmets of female warrior that would allow them to kill themselves if captured. Perhaps have something that they can bite that will release a deadly toxin. Or if you want to be gruesome, some mechanism they can trigger that will cut their throats. If I can think of this in a day, all of Orzammar not figuring it out in 1,000 years of warring with the darkspawn is just... no. There is no excuse for dwarves letting women fight on the front lines without doing something to ensure they aren't just making the problem worse.