184 réponses à ce sujet

[Deathwurm]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Deathwurm wrote...
I have to finally ask the question I've been trying to avoid here Big Bad Wolf: Why do you feel the need to be such an active Apologist for EA?

I defend EA because quite often the people who hate EA are the following:

1. Jumping on the bandwagon
2. Don't actually know what they are talking about
3. I'm a huge EA fanboy

1. A completely over-used term with little to no meaning. What's really going on if you bother to look all over the Web at different Forums (including EA's own) you'll find that what's really going on is that people are jumping OFF EA's Bandwagon.

2. In some cases, but far too broad and unfair a generaliztaion because a lot of people DO know what they're talking about

3. Good for you. I't always nice to be a Fan of something. If you choose to be a Fan of a Company whose "opt out" policy is pretty much a very snide "If you don't like it, we're really not interested in having you as a customer" that's your choice..I just wouldn't go as far as to invest in their Stock if I were you. AOL was the King of the Web at one time and chose to mis-treat their existing customers in favor of gaining new ones and we can all see how that worked out.

[Andarthiel_Demigod]

There's really nothing wrong with Origin IMO. It's a little buggy but that'll get fixed soon enough I'm sure. And no I'm not an EA fanboy, far from it.

[billy the squid]

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

There's really nothing wrong with Origin IMO. It's a little buggy but that'll get fixed soon enough I'm sure. And no I'm not an EA fanboy, far from it.

It is not a complaint of the application being buggy. It is collection of personal data from the computer from any software,hardware or peripheral hardware, linked or not to an EA application. Compunded with some rather onerous terms which have to be accepted due to its status as a contract of adhesion.

[Andarthiel_Demigod]

billy the squid wrote...

Andarthiel_Demigod wrote...

There's really nothing wrong with Origin IMO. It's a little buggy but that'll get fixed soon enough I'm sure. And no I'm not an EA fanboy, far from it.

It is not a complaint of the application being buggy. It is collection of personal data from the computer from any software,hardware or peripheral hardware, linked or not to an EA application. Compunded with some rather onerous terms which have to be accepted due to its status as a contract of adhesion.

Yes and I realized this when I read the opening post but that doesn't really bother me, I was merely trying to think of other flaws.

[billy the squid]

Thought I'd leave this little gem here.

JMKnave wrote...

For the Fanboy troll that keeps insisting agreeing to the Origin TOS is optional:



The EA Download Manager update (now called Origin) being pushed to all older EADM applications asks only "Yes" and "Exit".

This update is absolutely mandatory by EA. There is no other option to cancel the update or to not accept the TOS. Clicking "Yes" installs Origin and hence you agree to all provisions in the TOS. Clicking "Exit" shuts down EADM.

This screen will then pop up whenever you run EADM subsequently. Any game you previously purchased through EADM and rightfully own will no longer be accessible until you install Origin and hence agree to the TOS. You can no longer download them to play these games anymore. So if these games are not already installed on your system the next time you run EADM, you will lose all access to them.

This is akin to holding people's property for ransom and is not something I would call voluntary or optional.

They are already seeing a backlash from these tactics and have since "updated" their Privacy Policy and added two opt-out options in the EA account profile webpages but there is still no opt-out option from within Origin itself in regards to the collection of data.

Modifié par billy the squid, 30 août 2011 - 01:59 .

[SirLysander]

billy the squid wrote...

Thought I'd leave this little gem here.

JMKnave wrote...

For the Fanboy troll that keeps insisting agreeing to the Origin TOS is optional:



The EA Download Manager update (now called Origin) being pushed to all older EADM applications asks only "Yes" and "Exit".

This update is absolutely mandatory by EA. There is no other option to cancel the update or to not accept the TOS. Clicking "Yes" installs Origin and hence you agree to all provisions in the TOS. Clicking "Exit" shuts down EADM.

This screen will then pop up whenever you run EADM subsequently. Any game you previously purchased through EADM and rightfully own will no longer be accessible until you install Origin and hence agree to the TOS. You can no longer download them to play these games anymore. So if these games are not already installed on your system the next time you run EADM, you will lose all access to them.

This is akin to holding people's property for ransom and is not something I would call voluntary or optional.

They are already seeing a backlash from these tactics and have since "updated" their Privacy Policy and added two opt-out options in the EA account profile webpages but there is still no opt-out option from within Origin itself in regards to the collection of data.

I'm not sure where the original post you quoted is (if it's not earlier in this thread), but there's one statement that isn't entirely accurate:

"This is akin to holding people's property for ransom and is not something I would call voluntary or optional."

The problem is the term "people's property;" there is no property transference in software transactions - the "purchase price" entitles the "buyer" to a physical media (if physically "purchased," otherwise no physical media is transfered) and a license to use and operate the software itself.  What EA did in changing from EADM to Origin is more akin to changing a license to enter private property to hunt or fish (or some other license that requires going onto the real property of another to be a useful license) than to changing the terms of the car someone sold you last week. 

If the original license purchase agreement stated that EA can change the terms of the license at any time, then there's no "holding for ransom," although it may feel like it.

[Morroian]

Hmm seems that Minecraft isn't on Steam for much the same reasons as EA games:
http://notch.tumblr....-no-steam-notch

[JGDD]

SirLysander wrote...

If the original license purchase agreement stated that EA can change the terms of the license at any time, then there's no "holding for ransom," although it may feel like it.

That's another bone of contention for me. The bait & switch. Personally feel they should be held to the same standards as credit card companies about issuing notifications when ToS are facing changes. Agreeing to one version of the EULA and silently switching it out for another is disgusting.

[Deathwurm]

This whole thing is blowing up in EA's face...

I did an Internet search (I've been trying to keep up and see if there has been any more news on changes to the EULA) and an article about MW? (not sure what number they're up to now) came up dated today and it mentions the EULA and BF3 and how interesting it's going to be to see if Modern Warfare wins the sales War due in part to EA's not using Steam and the EULA issue.

EA is being made to look like it's set out to fail.

[vometia]

SirLysander wrote...

If the original license purchase agreement stated that EA can change the terms of the license at any time, then there's no "holding for ransom," although it may feel like it.

It's a common clause, and one that seems to make a contract pretty worthless; seems a bit unreasonable that only one party gets to change the terms at any time, though: the poor customer's only choice is to not use the stuff they've paid for if they object to the suddenly revised terms.  No idea how that would stand up in court, but it's ethically rather dubious.

[In Exile]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Do video games really matter *this* much to people?

People care about privacy.

[SirLysander]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

SirLysander wrote...

If
the original license purchase agreement stated that EA can change the
terms of the license at any time, then there's no "holding for ransom,"
although it may feel like it.

That's another bone of
contention for me. The bait & switch. Personally feel they should be
held to the same standards as credit card companies about issuing
notifications when ToS are facing changes. Agreeing to one version of
the EULA and silently switching it out for another is
disgusting.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but from the "a contract is a contract is a contract" perspective, if both parties agree... it's a contract.

vometia wrote...

SirLysander wrote...

If the original license purchase agreement stated that EA can change the terms of the license at any time, then there's no "holding for ransom," although it may feel like it.

It's a common clause, and one that seems to make a contract pretty worthless; seems a bit unreasonable that only one party gets to change the terms at any time, though: the poor customer's only choice is to not use the stuff they've paid for if they object to the suddenly revised terms.  No idea how that would stand up in court, but it's ethically rather dubious.

The "We can change TOU on the fly" component has been in "clickwrap" licenses for quite a while; they're much more prevalent now with direct-download and website access licensing.

Modifié par SirLysander, 31 août 2011 - 11:04 .

[JGDD]

SirLysander wrote...

I'm not disagreeing with you, but from the "a contract is a contract is a contract" perspective, if both parties agree... it's a contract.

I haven't clicked on anything yet so I figure I'm safe to spit that out for now.

[vometia]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

In the age of the Internet, there's no such thing as privacy. Those people need to learn.

Nice soundbite, even though it's rather meaningless.

[Deathwurm]

vometia wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

In the age of the Internet, there's no such thing as privacy. Those people need to learn.

Nice soundbite, even though it's rather meaningless.

Agreed!

I think one thing you should learn to take into consideration "Wolf" is the difference between having something taken without your knowldege and freely giving it away!

Modifié par Deathwurm, 01 septembre 2011 - 06:29 .

[vometia]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

I advise you to go over what you just said. People should read the terms, and it's not  EA's fault if someone didn't know. So it's only being taken without their knowledge because they didn't read it. So I don't need to learn anything. People should be responsible. EA shouldn't have to deal with consumer irresponsibility.

The point isn't so much that people don't read or understand the terms and conditions, but that they're unreasonable: it's not a matter of being irresponsible when the agreement is quite onerous.

[Deathwurm]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Deathwurm wrote...

vometia wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

In the age of the Internet, there's no such thing as privacy. Those people need to learn.

Nice soundbite, even though it's rather meaningless.

Agreed!

I think one thing you should learn to take into consideration "Wolf" is the difference between having something taken without your knowldege and freely giving it away!

I advise you to go over what you just said. People should read the terms, and it's not  EA's fault if someone didn't know. So it's only being taken without their knowledge because they didn't read it. So I don't need to learn anything. People should be responsible. EA shouldn't have to deal with consumer irresponsibility.

Actually...you need to take a better look at what I said:

Something taken without your knowledge= all the invasions of Privacy that others have used to say "this is no big deal, everyone does it to you"...examples: Facebook violating their own ToS over and over and selling their users out, the "Government" Agencies that use key-word Trap programs to monitor conversations and who also keep track of every Electronic transaction & communication 24 hours a day seven days a week.

Freely giving it away= Ea's Origin EULA where you are allowing the company to reserve the Right to scan your Hard-Drive for information that has nothing to do with the performance of the Origin service or EA's Games.

A little clearer?

[DeathDragon185]

WHY did you people respond to this guy. he is obviously a troll

[N0-Future]

Until I know whether Origin is going to be required to play ME3 Ive cancelled my pre-order, Imo Origin is no more than spyware.

[Bryy_Miller]

N0-Future wrote...
Origin is no more than spyware.

No more spywaye than Facebook, Twitter, Abode Premiere, Microsoft Windows, or Steam.

[slimgrin]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

N0-Future wrote...
Origin is no more than spyware.

No more spywaye than Facebook, Twitter, Abode Premiere, Microsoft Windows, or Steam.

I still prefer not having to install clients to play a game.

~edit~

Modifié par slimgrin, 28 septembre 2011 - 01:47 .