45 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

If a mage has never been in the Circle and therefore there is no phylactery, is there any way of spotting them if they do not use their magic?    The blood sample allows Templars to track a specific mage but does their lyirum fix help them sense a general aura that the mage carries with them or would a mage be able to walk right past them without them knowing it?  (Assuming that they are not carrying a dirty great staff which is a bit of a giveaway).

[IanPolaris]

Gervaise wrote...

If a mage has never been in the Circle and therefore there is no phylactery, is there any way of spotting them if they do not use their magic?    The blood sample allows Templars to track a specific mage but does their lyirum fix help them sense a general aura that the mage carries with them or would a mage be able to walk right past them without them knowing it?  (Assuming that they are not carrying a dirty great staff which is a bit of a giveaway).

Near as I can tell, if a mages doesn't "go bright" and cast spells, it's almost impossible for a Templar to spot them without a phylactery or some other aid.

-Polaris

[maxernst]

IanPolaris wrote...

Gervaise wrote...

If a mage has never been in the Circle and therefore there is no phylactery, is there any way of spotting them if they do not use their magic?    The blood sample allows Templars to track a specific mage but does their lyirum fix help them sense a general aura that the mage carries with them or would a mage be able to walk right past them without them knowing it?  (Assuming that they are not carrying a dirty great staff which is a bit of a giveaway).

Near as I can tell, if a mages doesn't "go bright" and cast spells, it's almost impossible for a Templar to spot them without a phylactery or some other aid.

-Polaris

How can it be so hard?  Most casters are conveniently labeled "blood mage" or "circle mage".  I guess the people with actual names can be confusing.

[Rifneno]

Hmm. I never really thought about it, but it doesn't make a lot of sense does it? Hawke can take Anders, Bethany, and Merrill through a tour of the Gallows courtyard and nobody is the wiser. Yet the templars find mages who are laying low. Either there's something the devs haven't explained to us or that's a pretty silly plot hole.

[esper]

Considering that Cullen doesn't notice you casting spell right in front of his eye I would say a pretty silly plothole, but I don't think that the templars have anything to find apostates with. I think that the templars finding the mages laying low is because of the people who lives next door. Nobody noticed Fenriyel apparently untill his mother decided to contact the circle.

[Wulfram]

Young untrained mages don't seem to have conscious control of their magic, so they'll often blow their cover I guess. And training is difficult to acquire outside of the Circle.

A trained mage without a phylactery who refuses to use their power would probably be extremely difficult for the Templars to find. But not all that common - and generally the Templars would have more pressing concerns that someone who by definition isn't causing any trouble.

Feynriel is successfully hidden until his mother decides he needs help, so it clearly is possible to lay low even in Kirkwall.

[Rifneno]

esper wrote...

Considering that Cullen doesn't notice you casting spell right in front of his eye I would say a pretty silly plothole, but I don't think that the templars have anything to find apostates with. I think that the templars finding the mages laying low is because of the people who lives next door. Nobody noticed Fenriyel apparently untill his mother decided to contact the circle.

Well Cullen not noticing is a necessary evil.  They either had to make the story even more convoluted by making sure no combat happened with a non-hostile templar nearby, only let us play warriors and rogues, or handwave the battle mechanics.  They made the best decision IMO.

Still, they have to have some way of verifying magery.  Bethany, the sanest mage in the Free Marches and very well trained by an exceptionally gifted apostate father, gets caught.  Meanwhile Kelder bursts into the Gallows going "Help, the demons won't stop telling me to molest children!" and they told him to ****** off.  ...  Then again, a templar personally investigates--borderline stalks--Gascard DuPois and doesn't notice he's not just a mage but a blood mage and n00b necromancer.  'the hell?

[Xilizhra]

I think the reason for the Bethany/Gascard dichotomy is that Bethany's been doing a lot of things fairly openly in helping Hawke, whereas Gascard has taken special care to be secretive and was apparently well-connected enough to know about the guard raid on his mansion and hide everything. Bethany just got sloppy with hiding, it seems.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Ser Bryant was able to identify a Warden mage, and a few others seem to be able to, but I think it might be just phsyical things, like subtle habits and mannerism, ect, that templars have been trained to spot. But as far as any specific ability to actually detect magic, not that I'm aware of. Mages who were laying low but still get caught, are likely due to them being ratted out or reported by nosy or antagonistic neighbors/associates. It seems to be indicated that templars, like police detectives, go off reports and leads given to them by members of the public, more than anything. Though I think that they might be able to sense magical or demonic activity when it's active, like Ser Otto in the alienage.

Kirkwall's templars, however, seem to have lost the ability to use common sense, let alone templar abilities.

[Xilizhra]

Though I think that they might be able to sense magical or demonic activity when it's active, like Ser Otto in the alienage.

Kirkwall's templars, however, seem to have lost the ability to use common sense, let alone templar abilities.

I think it's because the entirety of Kirkwall is like that orphanage. Their templar sense is going off constantly, and they lose the precision that templars would be able to have elsewhere.

[maxernst]

Xilizhra wrote...

Though I think that they might be able to sense magical or demonic activity when it's active, like Ser Otto in the alienage.

Kirkwall's templars, however, seem to have lost the ability to use common sense, let alone templar abilities.

I think it's because the entirety of Kirkwall is like that orphanage. Their templar sense is going off constantly, and they lose the precision that templars would be able to have elsewhere.

That explanation might work, but it doesn't account for the loss of common sense by the population of Kirkwall in general.

[Gervaise]

I think you can take it as read that nothing about Kirkwall is normal. As for Bethany, we know that right from the beginning Gamlen was none too discrete about her abilities so anyone in the underworld could have ratted her out for the right incentive. Clearly they were too much in awe of Hawke to do so when he/she was still in Gamlen's house but once away in the Deep Roads, and apparently lost once Bartram returned without them, then people probably thought it safe to snitch.

I was thinking more elsewhere for the general mage sense thing. Bethany said they had to keep moving because of her but I thought that while Malcolm was alive it was probably more because of him, or was his phylactery destroyed? Once he died it would seem they were able to live for 2-3 years in one place, Lothering, undetected, which makes me think that provided she did nothing in public, she would have been safe, particularly as there wasn't a particularly large Templar presence there.

[DreGregoire]

In Origins, Ser Bryant says that he would to have to be a poor templar not to notice your mage is a mage. The thing about this is we never get an idea from that if it's just simple deduction on his part or if he has some special ability to spot a persons power.

Now in DA2 there are a couple of people who say they saw you casting spells and that of course means they know you are a mage.

The indentured Hawkes are protected by the group they work for, it is not until after that Hawke and sibling need to be more careful. Even so there are signs that Varric goes out of his way to protect friends as does Aveline.

I thought maybe templars, at first, had some special mage detecting ability but it became very clear to me in Dragon Age 2 that this is not the case. The templars have to depend on deduction and gossip. So if your Hawke walks around in a mage robe and totes a staff and throws spells around, then I'm sure he'll be noticed. The question is given the makeup of Kirkwall would the average individual dare to approach the templars with this information. However, if your Hawke walks and dresses like an average citizen with staff not in evidence the majority of the time then there is no reason to expect to be recognized as a mage. Even robes aren't a dead give away because not only mages wear robes.

So essentially if there is no phylactery and nobody is able to determine you are a mage through your actions then there is no way to track or find you, in Ferelden and the Free Marches anyways.

Now this isn't saying that a certain templar might not be more intune to the flow of things, especially if one of their other senses have been lost, but it maybe more that the otherness is so strong in certain places that makes this possible.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 25 août 2011 - 05:06 .

[Xilizhra]

In Ser Bryant's case, both you and Morrigan both look like mages, unless you're naked and weaponless.

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

In Ser Bryant's case, both you and Morrigan both look like mages, unless you're naked and weaponless.

"Whatever people think a witch of the wilds looks like, 'tis not I." - Morrigan

[Xilizhra]

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In Ser Bryant's case, both you and Morrigan both look like mages, unless you're naked and weaponless.

"Whatever people think a witch of the wilds looks like, 'tis not I." - Morrigan

That was when she was staffless. Though it applies more to the Circle mage robe-bedecked Warden.

[IanPolaris]

Xilizhra wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In Ser Bryant's case, both you and Morrigan both look like mages, unless you're naked and weaponless.

"Whatever people think a witch of the wilds looks like, 'tis not I." - Morrigan

That was when she was staffless. Though it applies more to the Circle mage robe-bedecked Warden.

Not only that but remember that the mage warden was a circle mage and had lived and been raised in the circle since childhood.  Assuming such a self-contained society would have it's own social cues (and I'd say that's a near certainty) and trained Templar could be trained to spot them (even in subtle echos).  It's that which I suspect Ser Bryant spotted, and it would not apply to Hawke since he was never a circle mage.

-Polaris

[dragonflight288]

Warden: You do know I'm a mage right?
Morrigan: As am I.
Ser Bryant: I don't have time to think of such things right now. The only thing I see threatening these people are the darkspawn.

[IanPolaris]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Warden: You do know I'm a mage right?
Morrigan: As am I.
Ser Bryant: I don't have time to think of such things right now. The only thing I see threatening these people are the darkspawn.

Which is pretty much what Ser Wesley winds up saying (with some heavy duty prompting from his wife granted).

-Poalris

[Melca36]

Gervaise wrote...

If a mage has never been in the Circle and therefore there is no phylactery, is there any way of spotting them if they do not use their magic?    The blood sample allows Templars to track a specific mage but does their lyirum fix help them sense a general aura that the mage carries with them or would a mage be able to walk right past them without them knowing it?  (Assuming that they are not carrying a dirty great staff which is a bit of a giveaway).

The templars use a form of blood magic to track down mages which makes them...hypocrites.

[dragonflight288]

Alistair: *just finishes explaining templars talents*
Warden: So templars use magic themselves?
Alistair: Well you could look at it that way, but the Chantry won't. And our talents only work against mages.

[DreGregoire]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Warden: You do know I'm a mage right?
Morrigan: As am I.
Ser Bryant: I don't have time to think of such things right now. The only thing I see threatening these people are the darkspawn.

I didn't tell him I was a mage. This is the conversation I was refering to with Ser Bryant:

Warden: Have you heard any other news?
Ser Bryant: I suppose since you are a mage, I do know something that might interest you.
Ser Bryant: Don't look surprised. I would be a poor templar if I couldn't tell that much.
(Then he tells you about the trouble at the circle tower.)

Modifié par DreGregoire, 25 août 2011 - 07:42 .

[IanPolaris]

DreGregoire wrote...

I didn't tell him I was a mage. This is the conversation I'm refering to with Ser Bryant:

Warden: Have you heard any other news?
Ser Bryant: I suppose since you are a mage, I do know something that might interest you.
Ser Bryant: Don't look surprised. I would be a poor templar if I couldn't tell that much.
(Then he tells you about the trouble at the circle tower.)

Yes, but that is to the warden mage who was (until very recently) a circle mage from childhood (and may even be wearing Irving Circle Mage ring).  I would say that a competant templar could identify the subtle social cues that distinguish a circle mage (an isolated sub-society) from other people that were raised outside the circle.

-Polaris

[esper]

Rifneno wrote...

esper wrote...

Considering that Cullen doesn't notice you casting spell right in front of his eye I would say a pretty silly plothole, but I don't think that the templars have anything to find apostates with. I think that the templars finding the mages laying low is because of the people who lives next door. Nobody noticed Fenriyel apparently untill his mother decided to contact the circle.

Well Cullen not noticing is a necessary evil.  They either had to make the story even more convoluted by making sure no combat happened with a non-hostile templar nearby, only let us play warriors and rogues, or handwave the battle mechanics.  They made the best decision IMO.

Still, they have to have some way of verifying magery.  Bethany, the sanest mage in the Free Marches and very well trained by an exceptionally gifted apostate father, gets caught.  Meanwhile Kelder bursts into the Gallows going "Help, the demons won't stop telling me to molest children!" and they told him to ****** off.  ...  Then again, a templar personally investigates--borderline stalks--Gascard DuPois and doesn't notice he's not just a mage but a blood mage and n00b necromancer.  'the hell?

All right, I can see why Cullen was a necessary evil, and I admit that I roleplay it as him playing stupid on purpose because Hawke more and less agrees to hunt blood mages. I roleplay it as Cullen playing dumb on purpose because if he told Meridith that he as a knight captain let a mage walk.... He does know that Anders is a mage.
I thought Bethany was caught because she casts some spell in the night and she was no longer protected by a large and powerfull group full of murderous people. I have never gotten a non-mage Hawke as far, but it sounded like the 'friendly' neighbourhood watch to me.  

[DreGregoire]

Xilizhra wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In Ser Bryant's case, both you and Morrigan both look like mages, unless you're naked and weaponless.

"Whatever people think a witch of the wilds looks like, 'tis not I." - Morrigan

That was when she was staffless. Though it applies more to the Circle mage robe-bedecked Warden.

This of course only applies if your warden mage is still decked out like a mage, which mine generally aren't at that point in time; however, for the majority of players I would guess the big ole staff over your shoulder is clue enough. LOL