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The Chantry: A Love/Hate relationship


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#101
jamesp81

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dragonflight288 wrote...

Top two origin stories for me are the Dwarf Noble and the magi. Dwarven noble because of the many political paths a single player can take before even ending up in the deep roads, and an excuse to say "Alistair, everyone is out for themselves. Family blood-bonds don't always mean much" in all honesty.

And the magi, well, who doesn't like throwing lightening at fools?


I still like the female human noble origin.  I don't normally play female characters, but works in this case because I'm something of a Ferelden fanboy.  It lets you craft a story that starts with betrayal and segues into revenge, fighting an epic battle against the forces of evil, and finishing it by marrying the female warden to Alistair after he's made king.  It's all so very, very Ferelden.

#102
naledgeborn

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What do individual origins have to do with the Chantry again? Oh right Human Noble, City Elf, and Magi are possible Andrastians

To keep this on topic, has anyone RP'd an Andrastian Dwarf before? Bonus points if you took the Templar specialization.

#103
TEWR

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naledgeborn wrote...

What do individual origins have to do with the Chantry again? Oh right Human Noble, City Elf, and Magi are possible Andrastians

To keep this on topic, has anyone RP'd an Andrastian Dwarf before? Bonus points if you took the Templar specialization.


I never played a devout Andrastian Dwarf, but I did RP one that took blessings from the priests just for kicks. Well, save for in Ostagar. He enjoyed making that Chantry witch angry.

#104
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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naledgeborn wrote...

What do individual origins have to do with the Chantry again? Oh right Human Noble, City Elf, and Magi are possible Andrastians

To keep this on topic, has anyone RP'd an Andrastian Dwarf before? Bonus points if you took the Templar specialization.



My dwarf commoner became an Andrastian convert, seeing how Andrastiasm didn't think she was worthless, unlike Orzammar's paragon/ancestor reverence. But she was a rogue, so no templar spec. My dwarven noble, who was a warrior, though the Chantry, like every other human idea, was a half-backed crock. No templar spec there, either.

#105
Rifneno

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Torax wrote...

It's funny that in the end the City Elves are still better off than the Cast-less dwarves in dust town. The only jobs they can have are criminal at best and are even branded to further be a reminder to themselves and all around them that they are worthless and always will be. There is no Elder to speak for them. Having children means you'll starve even more unless you're willing to kill others around you for their food.

The most dangerous place for a dwarf to be is in Orzimmar it'self. Dust Town is the worst for it. A crap job is better than not being allowed one at all just because of your same sex parent. Where you're branded like Cattle just so they can remember how worthless they think you are.


I agree, casteless dwarves have it the worst.  Quite possibly even worse than Tevinter slaves, though we've have to see more than just Fenris to judge well on that.  I find it hard to feel bad for the dwarves being under constant threat from the darkspawn when they're still treating their own people like... that.  More like karma.

#106
naledgeborn

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Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

My dwarf commoner became an Andrastian convert, seeing how Andrastiasm didn't think she was worthless, unlike Orzammar's paragon/ancestor reverence. But she was a rogue, so no templar spec. My dwarven noble, who was a warrior, though the Chantry, like every other human idea, was a half-backed crock. No templar spec there, either.


The Chant from a dwarf? The madness of this - place.
Image IPB

#107
TEWR

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WIN ^^^^

#108
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

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naledgeborn wrote...


The Chant from a dwarf? The madness of this - place.
Image IPB



She even tithed regularly. :innocent:B)

#109
ImoenBaby

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jamesp81 wrote...


I love the Chantry.  Love the concept of the Templars as well. 


I get the "love/hate" thing too - I love the ambiguity surrounding the Chantry's version of history - and I love to hate the stupid things that come out of Chantry mouthpieces. I'm intrigued by Andraste, the golden/black city, etc. Image IPB

What I really wonder about is the Templars pre-Chantry. I seem to remember a codex suggesting the Templars used to be bad-ass monster hunters, feared and respected for their prowess in baddie disposal. Somehow they were subsumed by the Chantry and became lyrium addicts.

I'd love a Templar party member, just to see her take on the Chantry's power in society.

I do like the small number of actively Andrastrean characters I've seen, although none of them have made me particularly sympathetic to their respective causes. I'm interested in their humanity, while turned off by some of their thought processes. But that's part of their humanity too.

#110
Gervaise

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I think the bigges criticism against the Chantry is that it is too mixed up with secular power - both White and Black Chantries.  So it tends to overlook the excesses of those in power and the expense of those it is meant to protect.    The reason for this is obvious if you look at what happened to the Chantry in Orzammar - there it is in direct conflict with the established society and the powerful elite and before long gets eradicated.  The relationship between the Chantry and ruling nobles in all countries is a bit too cosy.

If the Chantry followed the code of its own Chant of Light without fear or favour, I am sure no one would have a problem with it.  However, when mages are being victimised and ill treated, when elves are being victimised and ill treated, it simply turns a blind eye - all are the makers children.  Individual Andrastrians who correctly follow the code are people to be respected.

If the Templars stuck to their remit of tracking mages outside the Circle and dealing with abominations and blood mages when they can be identified, it would not be a problem.  Again, if they are chosen for their piety then that ought to extend to following the Chant of Light but clearly it does not.   It is abuse of the power they have over the Circle mages that is so objectionable. Also the way they treat the relatives of mages, particularly if they are poor.   It is also noticeable that when a nobleman sends a complaint to Meredith about invasion of privacy  (in spite of the fact that one of her own Templars is suspicious of the man and has evidence of blood rituals) or a nobleman sends a letter begging mercy for his mage son, she ignores her own policy.  

#111
dragonflight288

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I think the bigges criticism against the Chantry is that it is too mixed up with secular power - both White and Black Chantries. So it tends to overlook the excesses of those in power and the expense of those it is meant to protect. The reason for this is obvious if you look at what happened to the Chantry in Orzammar - there it is in direct conflict with the established society and the powerful elite and before long gets eradicated. The relationship between the Chantry and ruling nobles in all countries is a bit too cosy.


I happen to agree with this. The Chantry, supported by the conquering emperor of Orlais, has never gone into a country without war from Orlais supporting it, or them supporting Orlais, and they have never actually been in a situation where they aren't in bed with the nobles.

If the Chantry followed the code of its own Chant of Light without fear or favour, I am sure no one would have a problem with it. However, when mages are being victimised and ill treated, when elves are being victimised and ill treated, it simply turns a blind eye - all are the makers children. Individual Andrastrians who correctly follow the code are people to be respected.


Again, I agree. The Chantry leaders often seem to forget why they are viewed as holy leaders by the common people.

If the Templars stuck to their remit of tracking mages outside the Circle and dealing with abominations and blood mages when they can be identified, it would not be a problem. Again, if they are chosen for their piety then that ought to extend to following the Chant of Light but clearly it does not. It is abuse of the power they have over the Circle mages that is so objectionable. Also the way they treat the relatives of mages, particularly if they are poor. It is also noticeable that when a nobleman sends a complaint to Meredith about invasion of privacy (in spite of the fact that one of her own Templars is suspicious of the man and has evidence of blood rituals) or a nobleman sends a letter begging mercy for his mage son, she ignores her own policy.


Again, I agree. I mean seriously, a woman gives her mage relative a place to sleep and some food and suddenly templars are ordered to murder her because of it? Not exactly what the Chant of Light teaches at its principles. I would also add it would help if the Chantry did NOT remove anything from the chant, like the bit on Shartan or Maferath.

My honest opinion is they removed the bit on Shartan because they wanted to feel superior to the elves and give themselves and excuse to feel good about conquering the Dales. As for Maferath's section we can find on Awakening, it reveals that Maferath's betrayal was blessed by the Maker and he was forgiven. But the Chantry teaches that Maferath made the Maker leave them a second time. If he were honestly forgiven, that would fall more in line of Leliana's views that she gives us in Origins and less with what the Chantry teaches.