132 réponses à ce sujet

[maxpowers2525]

liara makes a good point when she says to shep u took one more tool away for the reapers to use concerning stoping the collectors

[Candidate 88766]

The Collectors were building a Human reaper to see if it was viable. They have no need for a new vanguard to reach the Citadel, because with the Reapers being able to reach the galaxy in less than 3 years there simply won't be enough time to build an entire new Reaper and prepare a plan to get it unharmed to the Citadel before the other Reapers arrive. The others will arrive at the Alpha Relay, which can connect directly to the Citadel system, and a whole fleet of Reapers has a much higher chance of taking the Citadel than one new Reaper does. So we can rule out the Human Reaper being a new 'vanguard' - it just isn't necessary with the Reapers approaching the galaxy's back door. By the time the Alpha Relay was destroyed, the Reapers were only a few months travel away from Earth, and as soon as they reach Earth they have access to the Charon Relay and through it access to the entire Relay Network, including the Citadel.

Which leads me to think that the Collectors were building it simply to assess viability. When humanity destroyed Sovereign, Harbinger would have told the Collectors to accelerate their harvesting of humanity and to start construction on a new Reaper. If it works, the Reapers will know to harvest rather than destroy humanity upon their arrival - hence why they take control of Earth rather than blowing it up - and if it isn't viable they know they can destroy humanity along with the other species that, over the years, the Collectors have deemed unsuitable for being Reaper-ified. 

The new Reaper would've been built in the galactic core, safe from the inevitable conflict that would start when the Reapers arrived. The Collectors would've needed to harvest as many humans as possible before the Reapers arrived as there was a risk that humanity could be severely damaged in the war regardless of how careful the Reapers are. With the Base gone, the Reapers will need to not only start again with construction of a Human Reaper, but will need somewhere new to build it. I'm willing to bet they'll try to build it on Earth.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 25 août 2011 - 07:18 .

[CroGamer002]

My question is, why did Reapers even bother?

They could have just start doing it few years later without risk to lose base and Collectors.
And Human Reaper couldn't be completed before their arrival and even if it could, so what?
1 extra Reaper in this cycle is nothing since there's 1000s of Reapers.

[Halo Quea]

maxpowers2525 wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Veovim wrote...

I think the question here is what exactly did we accomplish in ME2?  Destroying the a new Reaper (if it is indeed just another Reaper) isn't especially significant if there are hundreds or thousands more of them.

The question is, why do we have to accomplish something incredibly significant? I'll bring The Empire Strikes Back example again. There wasn't any big accomplishement there. Just as one could say "TESB was just a filler while the second Death Star was being constructed" just as well as "ME2 was pointless because it was just a filler while the Reapers where travelling". The point is that in both cases, the middle parts of the trilogies where suppoused to be character-driven and lay the ground for the final act. Nowhere it is said there has to be a significant accomplishement in every part of the story (especially the middle one).

That's a very interesting point, but that's NOT how the Suicide Mission was being sold to Shepard.   Shepard goes through the O4R almost on a dare and being 99.9% blind as to what's waiting for him on the other side.  All he really knows is that's where human colonists are being taken.  

Not surprisingly with hundreds of thousands of colonists abducted,  the Normandy is too small and ill-equipped to mount a real rescue.   Something TIM should have been able to  figure out without any recon mission.     So Shepard is really only going through the O4R to save his crew.  AND THOSE ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE  Shepard saves, he rescues no colonists who could come back and tell the story to everyone else.  And I guess Shepard never recorded or photographed any of it, and I guess anything his surviving crew members would say wouldn't be believed be anyone anyway.  Right?

Don't you see?  We're already strecthing and reaching to grasp the logic and reasoning behind the Collectors and the O4R mission.  NOW we're told that the Reapers could have popped over in six months or two years at ANYTIME?   The whole story is really starting to feel broken. 

 I dont really remember the suicide miss being about rescuing colonist but more about stopping the collectors no one gave shep a chance stoping saren by going to ilos but he did and tim would know this

But that's neither here nor there at this point, the whole thing just makes the Reapers look DUMB.

Why go through the elaborate, complicated and difficult to control the outcome of Plan A, when Plan B is so much easier and 1000 times more efficient?

[Candidate 88766]

Mesina2 wrote...

My question is, why did Reapers even bother?

They could have just start doing it few years later without risk to lose base and Collectors.
And Human Reaper couldn't be completed before their arrival and even if it could, so what?
1 extra Reaper in this cycle is nothing since there's 1000s of Reapers.

Creating new Reapers is likely the entire point of the Cycles - each new Reaper makes them all stronger as they all have access to the new Reapers collective knowledge and memory. And they couldn't leave it a few more years because the galaxy knows about the Reapers and has access to Sovereigns technology. The Reapers can't risk the galaxy preparing itself.

[marstor05]

because there is more to this than we know.

[TheZyzyva]

All right, let's see if I can help things out here.
First, about Sovereign. The reason he went to such lengths to open the citadel when "the reapers can just fly on in" is because that's literally the way it had ALWAYS been done. This is the first in god knows how many cycles that the keepers haven't responded, thanks to the Protheans. And taking the citadel first would have made wiping out the galaxy childs play like it always has been. Instead when they show up everyone's going to know. If you're looking for plot holes I'd say bigger ones are why didn't the Batarians mention they were getting wiped out just prior to ME3, or why doesn't the whole reaper fleet go straight to the citadel once they do arrive. I hope 3 will address those because they are fairly significant.
Second, the HR was not a new vanguard, for this cycle at least. EDI said it still needed millions of humans and it already had tens of thousands, so without attacking Earth there would be no way to complete it.
Third, what we did in ME2 was take out the reapers version of the CIA. The collectors were the eyes, ears, and hands even of the Reapers. Now the Reapers have to rely on husks as their only foot soldiers until they indoctrinate more. Then they'll have to go through the process of modifying whoever they choose to be their collectors for the next cycle. Not to mention the base was the only known way to make more Reapers, so that has to be rebuilt as well if you destroyed it. If you want to argue that the Reapers should have other ways to build more, I'm not sure. There would have to be enough open space inside another reaper to at least hold the core of a new reaper, since those are clearly not constructed by normal means. The shell I'm not sure, but that seems likely to be added later. Maybe some the size of Sovereign can build the smaller reapers, but my guess is the dreadnoughts need to be built by outside means.
Phew, hope that covers it.

[maxpowers2525]

I t seems one of the goals of the reapers invasion is to make another reaper just because the invasion doesnt go as plan that doesnt mean they have to stop thier plans for humans they are the least bit cocky and rightfully so they have been doing this for millions of years maybe longer

[shepskisaac]

Mesina2 wrote...

My question is, why did Reapers even bother?

They could have just start doing it few years later without risk to lose base and Collectors.
And Human Reaper couldn't be completed before their arrival and even if it could, so what?
1 extra Reaper in this cycle is nothing since there's 1000s of Reapers.

Someone provided a very good theory that they need to test first if the Human/SomeOtherRace-Reaper will "work" at all before attacking. Depending what the tests show, they know what to do with the race after they already arrive - either they should just kill the entire race or abduct it to complete the contruction of the new Reaper.

[maxpowers2525]

Also too the reapers may worry that their secret is out and dont realize how stupid turian council members really are so they are rushing for no reason

[CroGamer002]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Creating new Reapers is likely the entire point of the Cycles - each new Reaper makes them all stronger as they all have access to the new Reapers collective knowledge and memory. And they couldn't leave it a few more years because the galaxy knows about the Reapers and has access to Sovereigns technology. The Reapers can't risk the galaxy preparing itself.

Attack galaxy and then harvest humans.

That's what I meant by "few years later" comment.

[Ieldra]

annihilator27 wrote...
Man they must be really far out there.

Far out? With regular FTL speed as per standard Citadel civilization ships, it would take 20 years to cross the galaxy. A few years is nothing for an intergalactic distance, they're sitting practically next to our doorstep.

[maxpowers2525]

reapers we have dimissed that theory along with the we need brains to think theory

[TheZyzyva]

Quick question, is it ever actively stated that only humans can be made into reapers? I know Harby calls out your squaddies if they're alien, but I always thought that was more to the point of humans having killed Sovereign.

[CroGamer002]

IsaacShep wrote...

Someone provided a very good theory that they need to test first if the Human/SomeOtherRace-Reaper will "work" at all before attacking. Depending what the tests show, they know what to do with the race after they already arrive - either they should just kill the entire race or abduct it to complete the contruction of the new Reaper.

And once they find that out( which I doubt they didn't before Freedo's Progress), why bother to abduct colonists?

Just wait for other Reapers and geth Earth humans for that Reaper.

[Jayce]

Halo Quea wrote...

Don't you see?  We're already strecthing and reaching to grasp the logic and reasoning behind the Collectors and the O4R mission.  NOW we're told that the Reapers could have popped over in six months or two years at ANYTIME?   The whole story is really starting to feel broken. 

Sovereign succeeded in summoning the reapers. He didn't succeed in opening the Citadel relay due to a puny human by the name of Shepard taking out Saren. So the Reapers have spent the last two years making their way to the galaxy.

In the mean time, the newly awake Harbinger contacted the collectors, who up until then had been isolated beyong the O4R, occasionally foraying through it to collect samples of other sapient species. Harbinger then set them the task of abducting and studying these pesky little thing called humans and based on the results, "accending them to perfection," ie. melting them to grey gloop to build a Reaper.

[Candidate 88766]

 

This image shows that the distance between the Viper Nebula - where the Alpha Relay was - and the Solar System is a third of the width of the galaxy. The Milky Way is 100,000 light years across, so we'll say its a distance of 30,000 light years. That distance was covered by the Reapers in 3 months, meaning they travel 10,000 light years a month which equates to roughly 333 light years per day, roughly 120,000 times the speed of light (pretty damn fast). The time between the end of ME1 - when the Reapers started traveling - and Arrival is about 3 years (ME2 takes place 2 years after ME1, takes about 6 months and arrival is about 6 months after the end of ME2 if I remember the dev comments correctly). That means that before the Reapers even reached the galaxy, they would have travelled 365,000 light years (assuming they travelled towards the galaxy at the same speed they travelled from the Viper Nebula to the Solar System at, which seems a fair assumption). That means the Reapers were over 3 times the diameter of the Milky Way from the edge of the galaxy - far enough away that they'd never be spotted. This also means that the Citadel Relay's opposite end in Dark Space must be very powerful, so I'm hoping it'll be the size of the Citadel and actually be a location to visit in-game. 

Also, to put this distance in context - the closest galaxy to the Milky Way is the Andromeda Galaxy, over 2.5 million light years away.

I'm not really posting this in response to anyone, I just thought it was interesting. If I've got any figures wrong please let me know. Also, this is just an estimate.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 25 août 2011 - 07:45 .

[Jayce]

Mesina2 wrote...

Just wait for other Reapers and get Earth humans for that Reaper.

Why wait till then if you're so confident that you'll destroy any resistance regardless and you can make a start in the mean time?

[Veovim]

IsaacShep wrote...
Someone provided a very good theory that they need to test first if the Human/SomeOtherRace-Reaper will "work" at all before attacking. Depending what the tests show, they know what to do with the race after they already arrive - either they should just kill the entire race or abduct it to complete the contruction of the new Reaper.

Why would they need to know that in advance, though?  As I wrote earlier, in ME1 it was established that the Reapers prefer to disable the mass relay network, cutting everyone off from each other, and effectively winning the war right away, without having to destroy any densely populated worlds in the process.  After they've already won, they have all the time they need to harvest organics and investigate their viability as new Reapers.

[TheZyzyva]

Veo, the collectors didn't start the mass abductions of humans until after ME1, when the Reapers realized that the citadel was a no-go.

[Candidate 88766]

Veovim wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
Someone provided a very good theory that they need to test first if the Human/SomeOtherRace-Reaper will "work" at all before attacking. Depending what the tests show, they know what to do with the race after they already arrive - either they should just kill the entire race or abduct it to complete the contruction of the new Reaper.

Why would they need to know that in advance, though?  As I wrote earlier, in ME1 it was established that the Reapers prefer to disable the mass relay network, cutting everyone off from each other, and effectively winning the war right away, without having to destroy any densely populated worlds in the process.  After they've already won, they have all the time they need to harvest organics and investigate their viability as new Reapers.

It saves the Reapers time. If they know humanity is a viable option, then they know that it is a priority to gain control of the human population before it damages itself too much in a war with the Reapers. While the Reapers can shut off each system, it would be very time consuming to test each species individually as it gives the other systems time to either prepare themselves or to flee into space. If the Reapers know in advance which species need to be harvested and which they can just destroy. You can argue that they don't need to know in advance, but they can be far more efficient if they do know.

We must remember, it could take centuries to complete the Cycle. Anything that shaves time off that makes the process more efficient, and I imagine the Reapers are all for efficiency.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 25 août 2011 - 07:57 .

[maxpowers2525]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

 

This image shows that the distance between the Viper Nebula - where the Alpha Relay was - and the Solar System is a third of the width of the galaxy. The Milky Way is 100,000 light years across, so we'll say its a distance of 30,000 light years. That distance was covered by the Reapers in 3 months, meaning they travel 10,000 light years a month which equates to roughly 333 light years per day, roughly 120,000 times the speed of light (pretty damn fast). The time between the end of ME1 - when the Reapers started traveling - and Arrival is about 3 years (ME2 takes place 2 years after ME1, takes about 6 months and arrival is about 6 months after the end of ME2 if I remember the dev comments correctly). That means that before the Reapers even reached the galaxy, they would have travelled 365,000 light years (assuming they travelled towards the galaxy at the same speed they travelled from the Viper Nebula to the Solar System at, which seems a fair assumption). That means the Reapers were over 3 times the diameter of the Milky Way from the edge of the galaxy - far enough away that they'd never be spotted. This also means that the Citadel Relay's opposite end in Dark Space must be very powerful, so I'm hoping it'll be the size of the Citadel and actually be a location to visit in-game. 

Also, to put this distance in context - the closest galaxy to the Milky Way is the Andromeda Galaxy, over 2.5 million light years away.

I'm not really posting this in response to anyone, I just thought it was interesting. If I've got any figures wrong please let me know. Also, this is just an estimate.

 i dont know were u got 3 months from i heard from the end of me2 includeing arrival to me3 is 6 months

[Candidate 88766]

TheZyzyva wrote...

Veo, the collectors didn't start the mass abductions of humans until after ME1, when the Reapers realized that the citadel was a no-go.

This. Also, this was when they would have realised that humanity might be worth harvesting - they may have considered them before, but after destroying a Reaper they probably became a huge priority.

[1136342t54_]

Halo Quea wrote...

But that's neither here nor there at this point, the whole thing just makes the Reapers look DUMB.

Why go through the elaborate, complicated and difficult to control the outcome of Plan A, when Plan B is so much easier and 1000 times more efficient?

No it doesn't. Why would the Reapers just use FTL when Sovereign can just open the Relay for them without using up energy by making a multiple year long FTL jump into the Galaxy. It saves energy and resources. When Sovereign failed they started to move.

[Candidate 88766]

maxpowers2525 wrote...

 i dont know were u got 3 months from i heard from the end of me2 includeing arrival to me3 is 6 months

Yes - Arrival takes place about 3 months after the end of ME2, and ME3 takes place a further 3 months after that. At least, that whats I think I remember reading. 

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 25 août 2011 - 07:55 .