132 réponses à ce sujet

[Halo Quea]

TheZyzyva wrote...

Quick question, is it ever actively stated that only humans can be made into reapers? I know Harby calls out your squaddies if they're alien, but I always thought that was more to the point of humans having killed Sovereign.

Well that's a pretty common theory around here.   The Reapers basically go, "Anyone bad ass enough to kill one us is good enough to join the club"

So humans may have been the only ones who shot down a Reaper in very long time.  In ME3 it looks like we're finally going to get an opportunity to see Reapers in other forms, not just the Dreadnoughts.

Hopefully we'll also find out how Reapers ascend to the level of Dreadnoughts.   Maybe it's age, maybe it's battles won or how many species are harvested that add to the Reapers as a whole.   I really hope we get some answers this time and not more of the gapping plot holes.

[1136342t54_]

Mesina2 wrote...
And once they find that out( which I doubt they didn't before Freedo's Progress), why bother to abduct colonists?

Just wait for other Reapers and geth Earth humans for that Reaper.

Think about the damage that Human Reaper could do in the mean time? Also why would they wait? They have enough time to build a human Reaper and it would be much quicker to just use the Colelctors to hit humanity and create a new Reaper. Hackett even mentioned how the Collectors were hurting Alliance ships.

[Sgt Stryker]

Veovim wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
Someone provided a very good theory that they need to test first if the Human/SomeOtherRace-Reaper will "work" at all before attacking. Depending what the tests show, they know what to do with the race after they already arrive - either they should just kill the entire race or abduct it to complete the contruction of the new Reaper.

Why would they need to know that in advance, though?  As I wrote earlier, in ME1 it was established that the Reapers prefer to disable the mass relay network, cutting everyone off from each other, and effectively winning the war right away, without having to destroy any densely populated worlds in the process.  After they've already won, they have all the time they need to harvest organics and investigate their viability as new Reapers.

In previous cycles (at least the Prothean cycle), the Reapers were able to immediately assault and capture the Citadel, and lock out the relay network. That's no longer true with our cycle. One possibility that immediately comes to mind is they are concerned that the organic races will make a desparate attempt to destroy the Citadel (or at least its control systems) before the Reapers can capture it. No Citadel, no control of the relay network.

I realize that this is merely speculation on my part, but it does fit what we know about the Reapers so far - that they are methodical, they prefer the most efficient path to their goals, and do not like taking high risks if they don't need to.

[maxpowers2525]

its all spec cant wait to find out all i can about reapers i just hope they dont get dumbed down

[Ieldra]

@Candidate 88766:
Your calculation is interesting, but you don't take into account that it is very unlikely that the nearest functional relay to the Viper Nebula is a third of the galaxy away. Even if the nearest *known* relay is that far away - which I also doubt - the Reapers know all the relays, even those Citadel Civilization has never reached.

Which means that your distance and speed calculation is most likely wrong. Not that it matters anyway, since the all time periods in the ME universe are completely arbitrary anyway.

[maxpowers2525]

1136342t54 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
And once they find that out( which I doubt they didn't before Freedo's Progress), why bother to abduct colonists?

Just wait for other Reapers and geth Earth humans for that Reaper.

Think about the damage that Human Reaper could do in the mean time? Also why would they wait? They have enough time to build a human Reaper and it would be much quicker to just use the Colelctors to hit humanity and create a new Reaper. Hackett even mentioned how the Collectors were hurting Alliance ships.

Thats why i say the collectors were usefull in weakening humanity they took shep out for 2 years imagine if they hadnt the reapers knew they needed to press the attack with soverign destroyed and they were years away however they did it subltle which was smart

[Candidate 88766]

IsaacShep wrote...

Someone provided a very good theory that they need to test first if the Human/SomeOtherRace-Reaper will "work" at all before attacking. Depending what the tests show, they know what to do with the race after they already arrive - either they should just kill the entire race or abduct it to complete the contruction of the new Reaper.

Just for clarification, are you talking about the idea I posted in the Twitter thread?

The new tweets make everything much clearer. The Reapers awoke to find Sovereign defeated and so had to begin travelling at FTL speeds to the galaxy, trying to reach the galaxy's back door - the Alpha Relay - before the galaxy can use Sovereign's remains to make themselves too strong. The Collector's were presumably used to assess humanity's (and every other species for that matter) potential as a Reaper - if it works, then there is a new Reaper and the current reapers know to try and preserve humanity when they reach the galaxy. If it had failed, then they know that they can destroy humanity along with all other species. We know it worked, hence why the Reapers didn't outright destroy Earth - with the Larvae gone they need all the humans they can get if they want a new Reaper.

It would also have been impractical and shortsighted if the Reapers had hidden so far from the galaxy that it would take them thousands of years to return if their plan failed.

If it was this you're talking about, then I'd add the following ammendment: it may not be necessary for the Collectors to do this - in theory, once the Reapers have access the Relay Network they can assess each species at their leisure, although this gives other systems time to either prepare or flee into deep space - and when the Collectors started harvesting, the Reapers probably still believed they had access to the Citadel. However, it is far more efficient for the Reapers to know in advance which species are worth preserving and which can be wiped out straight away - hence why they used the Collectors for this cycle, and possibly an equivalent to the Collectors on many previous cycles (there are a lot of derelict ships at the other end of the Omega 4 Relay, arguably too many for only one cycle's worth of civilization. Perhaps the Collector Base has been there for many cycles, and if a species sin't fit to become a Reaper they use it as the new Collector species, changing their genes to suit their needs. If they didn't keep changing the species, the Collectors could devolve too much to be of any use over time).

[stysiaq]

I'm starting to get the feeling, that all the Bio tweets are desperate attempts to make huge plotholes even slightly smaller. Moreover, they're for sure extracted from forum's discussions.
For example: people complain (me included) that Reapers can just FTL in two years to the milky way. Why the hell whole Citadel plan, when you can just go to Alpha Relay with nobody noticing, get the Relay to Citadel, whole ME1 obsolete. Moreover, you make ME2 ending, that 50% players think, that the Reapers just started flying. What do you do? Just tweet "no, no no, they started flying just after ME1! So they are flying for 2 years now". I say what's the matter? 2 years is just 1/25 000 of the cycle, it doesn't make it less dumb.

The whole attacking-the-Earth-first is also dumb. Reapers should attack the Citadel, period. From there, they can control the relay network, and no fleet is capable of stopping them from taking control of it.

Yes, I know that Earth invasion is far more 'epic' or 'spectacular' than simply taking the Citadel over and this algorithm:

while (life exists) do:
1. Wait for a random number of months (all Reapers around Citadel)
2. Turn some relays on!
3. Goodbye <insert planet name here>
4. Get back to citadel.
5. Turn the relay network off.

But again, I guess if you de-dumbed 'the big, bad enemy' in all the fiction, the good guys could never win.

[Candidate 88766]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Candidate 88766:
Your calculation is interesting, but you don't take into account that it is very unlikely that the nearest functional relay to the Viper Nebula is a third of the galaxy away. Even if the nearest *known* relay is that far away - which I also doubt - the Reapers know all the relays, even those Citadel Civilization has never reached.

Which means that your distance and speed calculation is most likely wrong. Not that it matters anyway, since the all time periods in the ME universe are completely arbitrary anyway.

I'm just basing it on the information I have. You're probably right - theres bound to be at least one more Relay in Batarian space. However, the Alpha Relay may have been the only Primary Relay - all the other Relays in Batarian space could be Secondary, linking only to other parts of Batarian space. To gain full access to the full Network you'd need to gain access to a Primary Relay. 

I'm assuming the Reapers arrived at Earth at FTL from the Viper Nebula. If they arrive through the Charon Relay, having gained access to the Network earlier, then their speed wouldn't be as high as I said it was. Based on the information I have though, I'm assumed that the Reapers flew to Earth using FTL.

[Halo Quea]

1136342t54 wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

But that's neither here nor there at this point, the whole thing just makes the Reapers look DUMB.

Why go through the elaborate, complicated and difficult to control the outcome of Plan A, when Plan B is so much easier and 1000 times more efficient?

No it doesn't. Why would the Reapers just use FTL when Sovereign can just open the Relay for them without using up energy by making a multiple year long FTL jump into the Galaxy. It saves energy and resources.

I disagree, Plan A has too many moving parts, and too many negative outcomes. 

- The Rachni Wars [which raised the Krogan, and created a vengeful Rachni Queen]
-The Thorian [evidence left behind]
-The Geth [Heretics followed, but the rest of the Geth rejected]
-The Collectors [drawing attention to themselves in the Terminus]
-Eden Prime  [prompting the Council to bring Shepard into play. A figure who could possibly unite the Galaxy]
-Even Saren himself becomes a liability. 

Plan B is a straight shot that doesn't tip off the entire Galaxy or involve less than committed team players.  Plan B wouldn't have left Sovereign's shell and Reaper tech exposed and exploited.  Plan B is LOGICAL,  Plan A is NOT.

[Candidate 88766]

stysiaq wrote...

I'm starting to get the feeling, that all the Bio tweets are desperate attempts to make huge plotholes even slightly smaller. Moreover, they're for sure extracted from forum's discussions.
For example: people complain (me included) that Reapers can just FTL in two years to the milky way. Why the hell whole Citadel plan, when you can just go to Alpha Relay with nobody noticing, get the Relay to Citadel, whole ME1 obsolete. Moreover, you make ME2 ending, that 50% players think, that the Reapers just started flying. What do you do? Just tweet "no, no no, they started flying just after ME1! So they are flying for 2 years now". I say what's the matter? 2 years is just 1/25 000 of the cycle, it doesn't make it less dumb.

The whole attacking-the-Earth-first is also dumb. Reapers should attack the Citadel, period. From there, they can control the relay network, and no fleet is capable of stopping them from taking control of it.

Yes, I know that Earth invasion is far more 'epic' or 'spectacular' than simply taking the Citadel over and this algorithm:

while (life exists) do:
1. Wait for a random number of months (all Reapers around Citadel)
2. Turn some relays on!
3. Goodbye <insert planet name here>
4. Get back to citadel.
5. Turn the relay network off.

But again, I guess if you de-dumbed 'the big, bad enemy' in all the fiction, the good guys could never win.

Firstly, they may well be attacking the Citadel at the same time as attacking Earth - they'll have access to the Charon Relay and likely many others, so could reach the Citadel in minutes. However, if the Citadel closed its arms the Reapers may not be able to gain access without severely damaging it.

Also, while 2 years isn't a long time just imagine the amount of fuel needed to sustain FTL speeds for a 2 year period. It is feasible, but it is far more efficient to reach the galaxy via Relay. So ME1 is not obsolete. The Alpha Relay was merely a back up, and frankly if the Reapers hadn't had a back up they could reach in a relatively short time then they'd seem very foolish.

Finally, the reason they're attacking Earth is that with the Reaper-Larvae gone, securing Earth is the only chance the Reapers will have of building a Human reaper. We know they want to, and it seems that the whole purpose of the Cycle is to build more Reapers and become stronger each time, so it makes perfect sense that they attack Earth.

[Thompson family]

TheZyzyva wrote...

All right, let's see if I can help things out here.
First, about Sovereign. The reason he went to such lengths to open the citadel when "the reapers can just fly on in" is because that's literally the way it had ALWAYS been done.

Correct, and it's always been done that way for a very good reason that's already been mentioned. Becaue the Citadel was created as a trap, a place that's somehow controls all the Mass Relays. The Reapers put a control mechanism of some sort there that allows them to shut down or open relays at will, isolating systems from each other. Vigil explains this fully in ME1.

Modifié par Thompson family, 25 août 2011 - 08:24 .

[Candidate 88766]

Halo Quea wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

But that's neither here nor there at this point, the whole thing just makes the Reapers look DUMB.

Why go through the elaborate, complicated and difficult to control the outcome of Plan A, when Plan B is so much easier and 1000 times more efficient?

No it doesn't. Why would the Reapers just use FTL when Sovereign can just open the Relay for them without using up energy by making a multiple year long FTL jump into the Galaxy. It saves energy and resources.

I disagree, Plan A has too many moving parts, and too many negative outcomes. 

- The Rachni Wars [which raised the Krogan, and created a vengeful Rachni Queen]
-The Thorian [evidence left behind]
-The Geth [Heretics followed, but the rest of the Geth rejected]
-The Collectors [drawing attention to themselves in the Terminus]
-Eden Prime  [prompting the Council to bring Shepard into play. A figure who could possibly unite the Galaxy]
-Even Saren himself becomes a liability. 

Plan B is a straight shot that doesn't tip off the entire Galaxy or involve less than committed team players.  Plan B wouldn't have left Sovereign's shell and Reaper tech exposed and exploited.  Plan B is LOGICAL,  Plan A is NOT.

Firstly, we can't be sure that the Rachni were ever part of Plan A. We know Sovereign started the Rachni Wars, but that was long before it signalled the Keepers to open the Citadel.

Secondly, we have to assume that the only way to wake ip the hibernating Reapers is through the Citadel, hence why Sovereign couldn't contact them over the few centuries it spent putting a plan together.

Thirdly, plan B requires FTL speeds constantly for over 2 years. Even for a Reaper, thats a lot of fuel.

[Halo Quea]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

But that's neither here nor there at this point, the whole thing just makes the Reapers look DUMB.

Why go through the elaborate, complicated and difficult to control the outcome of Plan A, when Plan B is so much easier and 1000 times more efficient?

No it doesn't. Why would the Reapers just use FTL when Sovereign can just open the Relay for them without using up energy by making a multiple year long FTL jump into the Galaxy. It saves energy and resources.

I disagree, Plan A has too many moving parts, and too many negative outcomes. 

- The Rachni Wars [which raised the Krogan, and created a vengeful Rachni Queen]
-The Thorian [evidence left behind]
-The Geth [Heretics followed, but the rest of the Geth rejected]
-The Collectors [drawing attention to themselves in the Terminus]
-Eden Prime  [prompting the Council to bring Shepard into play. A figure who could possibly unite the Galaxy]
-Even Saren himself becomes a liability. 

Plan B is a straight shot that doesn't tip off the entire Galaxy or involve less than committed team players.  Plan B wouldn't have left Sovereign's shell and Reaper tech exposed and exploited.  Plan B is LOGICAL,  Plan A is NOT.

Firstly, we can't be sure that the Rachni were ever part of Plan A. We know Sovereign started the Rachni Wars, but that was long before it signalled the Keepers to open the Citadel.

Secondly, we have to assume that the only way to wake ip the hibernating Reapers is through the Citadel, hence why Sovereign couldn't contact them over the few centuries it spent putting a plan together.

Thirdly, plan B requires FTL speeds constantly for over 2 years. Even for a Reaper, thats a lot of fuel.

I understand what you're saying but my point still stands.  Plan A has created more problems than solutions for the Reapers. 

[JRod]

           Here is my personal theory regarding the collectors. We know that for some reason the Protheans for not turned into reapers. I believe that the reapers underestimated the randomness of organic evolution. As stated by Virgil the reapers used the Geth as their agents because they were far easier to predict.
          Instead of wiping out the protheans, their supposed toughest challenge, they turned them into the collectors in order to do just that collect. I believe they are meant to gather knowledge about the different species in order to discern weakness or if they are compatible with reaper tech. The human reaper was essentially a test run. The collectors were determining if humanity would successfully meld with reaper tech. Now that the reapers know that humanity can they, instead of complete extermination, try to harvest them. It would be pointless to spend extra resources and time harvesting a species for the "reaperfication" if they were not compatible.
It is also known that the collectors also do experiments on other races (Okeer offering the collectors some of his Krogan for tech).
          I believe the collectors main purpose is to find weakness and try to prevent what happened wit h the Protheans. So essentially by defeating the collectors the reapers will be going blind into the Galaxy which may give us an advantage in the coming war.

Modifié par JRod, 25 août 2011 - 08:42 .

[stysiaq]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Firstly, they may well be attacking the Citadel at the same time as attacking Earth - they'll have access to the Charon Relay and likely many others, so could reach the Citadel in minutes. However, if the Citadel closed its arms the Reapers may not be able to gain access without severely damaging it.

Last time I checked the Citadel is operated by the Keepers. We don't have control over its arms. We don't know how it works. End of discussion.

Also, while 2 years isn't a long time just imagine the amount of fuel needed to sustain FTL speeds for a 2 year period. It is feasible, but it is far more efficient to reach the galaxy via Relay. So ME1 is not obsolete. The Alpha Relay was merely a back up, and frankly if the Reapers hadn't had a back up they could reach in a relatively short time then they'd seem very foolish.

Well, I imagine it. The Reapers were wiping out the Protheans for quite a time, and I suppose they used big amounts of 'fuel' in the process. Btw, bringing up fuel problems is quite funny way to weaken immortal and almost indestructible machines, that harvest the galaxy all out of life countless times. Hell, just throw some gas stations into ME3. The Reapers will go to BP station instead of Earth/Citadel and they'll go bancrupt.
"DAMN YOU, MILKY WAY ECONOMY!!!!", Harbinger will scream. "WE CANT AFFORD THE NEXT CYCLE NOW!!!" Yes. Fuel problems. Coolest idea ever.

Finally, the reason they're attacking Earth is that with the Reaper-Larvae gone, securing Earth is the only chance the Reapers will have of building a Human reaper. We know they want to, and it seems that the whole purpose of the Cycle is to build more Reapers and become stronger each time, so it makes perfect sense that they attack Earth.

And just WHY the Reapers think, that creating the Human Reaper is so damn important? What makes it their priority?
If you suggest, that the main cause of all the cycles is simple reproduction, like
1. Wait 50k years
2. kill everything, make some pulp and make more Reapers
3. GOTO 1
it makes Sovereign sound like an idiot. He said sth like the motives of the Reapers are beyond our comprehension. Well, you cant say, that reproduction is beyond our comprehension, can you? Because I say its the only reason of life which many people can think of, and I comprehend it quite well.

You foolin' yourself, mon.

[Thompson family]

stysiaq wrote...

Last time I checked the Citadel is operated by the Keepers. We don't have control over its arms. We don't know how it works. End of discussion.

I don't think that's right, stysiaq. IIRC, the commander of the damaged Destiny Ascension tells the Citadel they'd better activate defenses and "close the station," but is told that Citadel systems are not responding. The next shot is of Saren walking away from two Geth, who are standing over the bodies of massacred Asari in a control room n the Citadel.

EDITED: Found a Youtube video of the relevant cutscene. The Destiny Ascension commander clearly says: "Activate the defenses. Seal the station." Her commnications officer replies: "The arms aren't moving. Systems not responding." At that, the Ascension commander orders that the Citadel be abandoened and the concil evacuated. She tries to hail Citadel control. They're dead.

Modifié par Thompson family, 25 août 2011 - 09:18 .

[Candidate 88766]

[quote]stysiaq wrote...

[quote]Candidate 88766 wrote...

Firstly, they may well be attacking the Citadel at the same time as attacking Earth - they'll have access to the Charon Relay and likely many others, so could reach the Citadel in minutes. However, if the Citadel closed its arms the Reapers may not be able to gain access without severely damaging it.
[/quote]

Last time I checked the Citadel is operated by the Keepers. We don't have control over its arms. We don't know how it works. End of discussion.[/quote]Except that the arms are controlled from Citadel control - Saren closes them before Sovereign interacts with the Citadel, and Shepard is able to open them. Hardly the end of discussion.

[quote][quote]
Also, while 2 years isn't a long time just imagine the amount of fuel needed to sustain FTL speeds for a 2 year period. It is feasible, but it is far more efficient to reach the galaxy via Relay. So ME1 is not obsolete. The Alpha Relay was merely a back up, and frankly if the Reapers hadn't had a back up they could reach in a relatively short time then they'd seem very foolish.
[/quote]

Well, I imagine it. The Reapers were wiping out the Protheans for quite a time, and I suppose they used big amounts of 'fuel' in the process. Btw, bringing up fuel problems is quite funny way to weaken immortal and almost indestructible machines, that harvest the galaxy all out of life countless times. Hell, just throw some gas stations into ME3. The Reapers will go to BP station instead of Earth/Citadel and they'll go bancrupt.
"DAMN YOU, MILKY WAY ECONOMY!!!!", Harbinger will scream. "WE CANT AFFORD THE NEXT CYCLE NOW!!!" Yes. Fuel problems. Coolest idea ever.[/quote]Um, what I'm saying is that maintaining FTL speeds for several years is going to cost a lot of energy and fuel - even something as powerful as a Reaper needs energy from somewhere. Saying the galaxy needs petrol stations is idiotic - I'm saying that no matter how powerful the Reapers are, they will need to replenish their fuel and energy - why else would they need to hibernate for the 50,000 gap? Are you saying you want the Reapers to magically have an unlimted supply of energy? A spaceship needs to get energy from somewhere no matter how poerful it is, and we know from ME2 that Reapers have element zero cores just like any other spaceship. You can scourn the idea all you want, but you can't ignore the fact that we know Reapers not only run on the same fuel other spaceships do (eezo) but also have to hibernate in order to conserve said fuel.

[quote][quote]
Finally, the reason they're attacking Earth is that with the Reaper-Larvae gone, securing Earth is the only chance the Reapers will have of building a Human reaper. We know they want to, and it seems that the whole purpose of the Cycle is to build more Reapers and become stronger each time, so it makes perfect sense that they attack Earth.
[/quote]

And just WHY the Reapers think, that creating the Human Reaper is so damn important? What makes it their priority?
If you suggest, that the main cause of all the cycles is simple reproduction, like
1. Wait 50k years
2. kill everything, make some pulp and make more Reapers
3. GOTO 1
it makes Sovereign sound like an idiot. He said sth like the motives of the Reapers are beyond our comprehension. Well, you cant say, that reproduction is beyond our comprehension, can you? Because I say its the only reason of life which many people can think of, and I comprehend it quite well.

You foolin' yourself, mon.

[/quote][/quote]The movites may well be beyond our comprehension - we don't know WHY the Reapers harvest species and turn them into other Reapers. It may be simply to make the Reapers as a whole stronger, or it may be some other reason. Maybe the Reapers feel that it is a privilege to join their ranks. Maybe they want new Reapers because they are trying to find some sort of answer and seek more minds. Reduce it to simple reproduction if you wish, but we don't actually know why the Reapers do this - all we know is that they build new Reapers, we don't know for what purpose. 

Or, you know, it could have been Sovereign blowing his own trumpet. the Reapers do seem to like exaggerating things.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 25 août 2011 - 09:12 .

[Candidate 88766]

Thompson family wrote...

stysiaq wrote...

Last time I checked the Citadel is operated by the Keepers. We don't have control over its arms. We don't know how it works. End of discussion.

I don't think that's right, stysiaq. IIRC, the commander of the damaged Destiny Ascension tells the Citadel they'd better activate defenses and "close the station," but is told that Citadel systems are not responding. The next shot is of Saren walking away from two Geth, who are standing over the bodies of massacred Asari in a control room n the Citadel.

Exactly. Both Saren and Shepard are able to operate the Citadel arms, both of them without having to interact with the Keepers.

[Candidate 88766]

Halo Quea wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Firstly, we can't be sure that the Rachni were ever part of Plan A. We know Sovereign started the Rachni Wars, but that was long before it signalled the Keepers to open the Citadel.

Secondly, we have to assume that the only way to wake ip the hibernating Reapers is through the Citadel, hence why Sovereign couldn't contact them over the few centuries it spent putting a plan together.

Thirdly, plan B requires FTL speeds constantly for over 2 years. Even for a Reaper, thats a lot of fuel.

I understand what you're saying but my point still stands.  Plan A has created more problems than solutions for the Reapers. 

It has, but as far as we know it is the first time that has happened. If plan A has worked every other cycle, then it makes sense that Sovereign would try to ensure it works. Also, without access to the Citadel Sovereign couldn't contact the other Reapers and therefore couldn't start plan B.

[KotorEffect3]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

 

This image shows that the distance between the Viper Nebula - where the Alpha Relay was - and the Solar System is a third of the width of the galaxy. The Milky Way is 100,000 light years across, so we'll say its a distance of 30,000 light years. That distance was covered by the Reapers in 3 months, meaning they travel 10,000 light years a month which equates to roughly 333 light years per day, roughly 120,000 times the speed of light (pretty damn fast). The time between the end of ME1 - when the Reapers started traveling - and Arrival is about 3 years (ME2 takes place 2 years after ME1, takes about 6 months and arrival is about 6 months after the end of ME2 if I remember the dev comments correctly). That means that before the Reapers even reached the galaxy, they would have travelled 365,000 light years (assuming they travelled towards the galaxy at the same speed they travelled from the Viper Nebula to the Solar System at, which seems a fair assumption). That means the Reapers were over 3 times the diameter of the Milky Way from the edge of the galaxy - far enough away that they'd never be spotted. This also means that the Citadel Relay's opposite end in Dark Space must be very powerful, so I'm hoping it'll be the size of the Citadel and actually be a location to visit in-game. 

Also, to put this distance in context - the closest galaxy to the Milky Way is the Andromeda Galaxy, over 2.5 million light years away.

I'm not really posting this in response to anyone, I just thought it was interesting. If I've got any figures wrong please let me know. Also, this is just an estimate.

Why do people keep assuming that the Charon relay was the next closest relay for the reapers after the alpha relay?  It is a safe bet that the reapers will travel to a relay that is much closer to the viper relay than the charon relay is and use that relay to travel to the charon relay and other systems.

[stysiaq]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Except that the arms are controlled from Citadel control - Saren closes them before Sovereign interacts with the Citadel, and Shepard is able to open them. Hardly the end of discussion.

point taken, I believed, that Saren and Shepard were able to control the station because of the Sovereign and Vigil data, but then I remembered that it only concerned the Citadel's relay functions. You're right.

Um, what I'm saying is that maintaining FTL speeds for several years is going to cost a lot of energy and fuel - even something as powerful as a Reaper needs energy from somewhere. Saying the galaxy needs petrol stations is idiotic - I'm saying that no matter how powerful the Reapers are, they will need to replenish their fuel and energy - why else would they need to hibernate for the 50,000 gap? Are you saying you want the Reapers to magically have an unlimted supply of energy? A spaceship needs to get energy from somewhere no matter how poerful it is, and we know from ME2 that Reapers have element zero cores just like any other spaceship. You can scourn the idea all you want, but you can't ignore the fact that we know Reapers not only run on the same fuel other spaceships do (eezo) but also have to hibernate in order to conserve said fuel.

And I'll continue to mock the idea of FTL travel itself and "tired Reapers" idea. I don't want the Reapers to be indestructible, have unlimited energy or anything like that, but considering that they're up to quite a big task AGAIN, I reject the Reapers being unprepared for the whole thing. And they don't look a bit tired in trailers. 

They use eezo, as every spacecraft. That is one more planet to visit before the main show, in my opinion. Well, it can be even used in the plot, protecting eezo-rich planets, who knows. 

And galaxy has petrol stations. That was quite stupid and unnecessary addition to the series, but it is true.

The movites may well be beyond our comprehension - we don't know WHY the Reapers harvest species and turn them into other Reapers. It may be simply to make the Reapers as a whole stronger, or it may be some other reason. Maybe the Reapers feel that it is a privilege to join their ranks. Maybe they want new Reapers because they are trying to find some sort of answer and seek more minds. Reduce it to simple reproduction if you wish, but we don't actually know why the Reapers do this - all we know is that they build new Reapers, we don't know for what purpose. 

Or, you know, it could have been Sovereign blowing his own trumpet. the Reapers do seem to like exaggerating things.

Didn't you say earlier, that it is to make them stronger? That implied reproductional motives.
If however you consider multiple reasons, you've got a point.

Sovereign's Virmire speech was as cool as it gets, but it was also one big shot in your own foot for BioWare. If they reveal Reapers motives, someone will say "Well, I comprehend that!". If they don't, another form of criticism will have place.
And they can't come up with motives beyond human's comprehension, because, well... unless...
OMG REAPERS WORK FOR BIOWARE. 

[stysiaq]

Also, when Harbinger says "We will find another way", maybe he means this:



Assuming direct OM NOM NOM.

[1136342t54_]

Halo Quea wrote...
I disagree, Plan A has too many moving parts, and too many negative outcomes.  

- The Rachni Wars [which raised the Krogan, and created a vengeful Rachni Queen]

Krogan was an unknown and the likelyhood of the Citadel Council actually findinga race of giant space lizard frogs(Krogan)  to combat giant space bugs (Rachni) were slim at most. Seriously that was an unknown that no one would have suspected and very akin to a ass pull superweapon. Although it was very badass.

-The Thorian [evidence left behind]

Thats why they attempted to kill it.

-The Geth [Heretics followed, but the rest of the Geth rejected]

Nothing bad really came out of that deal. The True Geth did nothing to stop the Reapers plans during ME1 and frankly didn't care.

-The Collectors [drawing attention to themselves in the Terminus]

Considering that they did it at a time when the only group who attempted to do anything about it was a terrorist group and Shepard was presumed dead (Because they killed him) makes what they did rather intelligent.

-Eden Prime  [prompting the Council to bring Shepard into play. A figure who could possibly unite the Galaxy]

Really? How the hell are the Reapers supposed to know that the Alliance has a stealth frigate and a badass N7 marine that were capable of finding out their plans? Shepard was just a N7 marine at the time how was he supposed to unite the galaxy when at that time most of the Galaxy see humans as young children.

-Even Saren himself becomes a liability. 

Saren followed orders even while trying to defend himself from indoctrination. Saren was never that much of a liability to start with.

Plan B is a straight shot that doesn't tip off the entire Galaxy or involve less than committed team players.  Plan B wouldn't have left Sovereign's shell and Reaper tech exposed and exploited.  Plan B is LOGICAL,  Plan A is NOT.

Plan A was always more logical. If Plan A went off perfectly there wouldn't be a war. The Relays would have been shut off and controlled by the Reapers. The Reapers would have then isolated the populations and militaries of the galaxy in small clusters and taken them out quickly. At that point the Citadel would have been hacked and the combined forces of the Council would have been wiped out at the Citadel instantly.

Plan B was more resource consuming than Plan A. Plan A was supposed to work but how could anyone have known that giant space frogs/lizards and a super badass N7 space marine capable of bending reality through interrupts would have interrupted there plans? These Reapers have been doing the same thing for millions of years using their own Vanguard to do most of the dirty work at first. Why would they instantly go to Plan B when Plan A was working fine?

Don't say its Logical because it isn't compared to Plan A. You are thinking from a out of universe perspective to much. Shepard was almost OCP for Plan A. Now they adapted using Plan B by killing him. Also the Reaper tech the Normandy has isn't all that good. The Thanix cannon is basically a very very very low grade version of a Reapers Thanix cannon. It only has a Cruisers level fire power or possibly a bit higher. Reaper fire power could likely one shot a dreadnought and keep moving like nothing happened. Hell it took a weapon capable of creating a masive scar on a planet to destroy it. Reaper tech isn't going to make much of a difference.

[1136342t54_]

Halo Quea wrote...

I understand what you're saying but my point still stands.  Plan A has created more problems than solutions for the Reapers. 

Again you are thinking from a out of universe perspective. You only know that it has created problems for the Reapers Now. How would you know that so many unlikely events would have occurred without your knowledge as a player?