So after you've killed the Thorian and you're talking with Shiala....you have the option of eliminating her....
Is the general consensus that this is "murder" or is just justice for all the stuff she's done while under Saren's (and even the Thorian's) influence?
Shiala in ME1
Débuté par
TheAzureVanguard
, août 26 2011 02:11
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#2
Posté 26 août 2011 - 02:23
MatrixTheRenegade
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You can really call it "justice" flat out. You could make an argument for retributive justice, which is what my first Shepard did. However letting her live would be moving in the direction of restorative justice since she said she wanted to work for the people she harmed to help undo the damage she caused.
So I mean, if it's a philosophical question then it's murder, since she is helpless and you choose, quite deliberately, to kill her. The death penalty/capital punishment is murder too. You can say that it is both, too, since it is undeniably murder but also a type of justice. Of course, this is all without bringing in the fact that she hasn't had a trial or anything, it's just Shep making the call.
I think this might be in the wrong room, by the way, although I'm a newbie haha
So I mean, if it's a philosophical question then it's murder, since she is helpless and you choose, quite deliberately, to kill her. The death penalty/capital punishment is murder too. You can say that it is both, too, since it is undeniably murder but also a type of justice. Of course, this is all without bringing in the fact that she hasn't had a trial or anything, it's just Shep making the call.
I think this might be in the wrong room, by the way, although I'm a newbie haha
#3
Posté 26 août 2011 - 04:40
d1sciple
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yeah you know this is the ME2 room eh? lol, as for you question, that's up to your Shepard to decide, is he the kind os guy that gives people a chance or the guy who covers his back and eliminates potential threats. in the end people need to be for their actions, how they pay is up to you. as this is the ME2 forum and is open to spoilers i will tell you that your decision will have an impact in ME2. enjoy the moral battle!
#4
Posté 26 août 2011 - 06:00
008Zulu
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I don't think she knew what Saren was truly up to when Beneziah gave her followers the option to walk away, or maybe she believed that Beneziah could really turn Saren away from the Reapers.
Odds are if she was all evil, then she would have attacked you and went down swinging.
Odds are if she was all evil, then she would have attacked you and went down swinging.
#5
Posté 26 août 2011 - 07:49
Yezdigerd
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The only reason you know about Shiala's collaberation with Saren is because Shiala says she did.
She also says she and Benezia joined Saren to sway him from serving the reapers and that they got mindcontrolled in the process.
Apparently some people are able trust her in the former to the point of executing her without a trial, but dismiss the latter.
Although renshep never makes the "justice" argument in the game, he kills her because "she changed sides to often" which is nonsensical, considering that Shiala stayed loyal to Benezia and was sacrificed by Saren to the Thorian.
I also find it funny that Shiala is also able to transfer the Cipher to other sentient beings, something Shepard apparently can't do. so you kill the one person able impart the collective consciousness of the protheans to the rest of galactic community not to mention the only one who managed to beat reaper indoctrination.
Even if she was Adolf Hitler reincarnated killing her strikes me as insane.
She also says she and Benezia joined Saren to sway him from serving the reapers and that they got mindcontrolled in the process.
Apparently some people are able trust her in the former to the point of executing her without a trial, but dismiss the latter.
Although renshep never makes the "justice" argument in the game, he kills her because "she changed sides to often" which is nonsensical, considering that Shiala stayed loyal to Benezia and was sacrificed by Saren to the Thorian.
I also find it funny that Shiala is also able to transfer the Cipher to other sentient beings, something Shepard apparently can't do. so you kill the one person able impart the collective consciousness of the protheans to the rest of galactic community not to mention the only one who managed to beat reaper indoctrination.
Even if she was Adolf Hitler reincarnated killing her strikes me as insane.
Modifié par Yezdigerd, 26 août 2011 - 07:57 .
#6
Posté 26 août 2011 - 11:00
MatrixTheRenegade
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Well, the shep that I was playing is all about retribution, and pretty damn black and white about it.
If I was to play a self-insert Shep, yeah, I'd let her live. For all the same reasons you've said, too, it was easy to deduce her honesty for me. But I don't play Me Shepard because I'm too principled and moral to make an interesting video game protagonist haha
If I was to play a self-insert Shep, yeah, I'd let her live. For all the same reasons you've said, too, it was easy to deduce her honesty for me. But I don't play Me Shepard because I'm too principled and moral to make an interesting video game protagonist haha
#7
Posté 29 août 2011 - 06:43
Spartas Husky
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hard to say. They wanted to "infiltrate" saren's group and divert his ambitions. But they were brainwashed. Personally I dont think they are responsible.
Example: Spy infiltrates a foreign nation. During his sleep he is drugged and an control chip is implanted. Without him knowing however. The chip makes enemy views sound more appealing.
is he actually a traitor? not really. But w/e
W/e the case might be I just wana see Shiala in ME3 in the same way she was in ME1. Her purple skin, piercing eyes.... ME2 version didn't look like the ME1.
Example: Spy infiltrates a foreign nation. During his sleep he is drugged and an control chip is implanted. Without him knowing however. The chip makes enemy views sound more appealing.
is he actually a traitor? not really. But w/e
W/e the case might be I just wana see Shiala in ME3 in the same way she was in ME1. Her purple skin, piercing eyes.... ME2 version didn't look like the ME1.
#8
Posté 07 septembre 2011 - 04:56
Onpoint17
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I liked that quality in ME1 with the renegade Shepard -- gunning down people with the slightest provocation. Although it was uncomfortable for me to watch shepard slaughter the colonists on Feros and execute Shiala, I liked that shepard could be that ruthless. I missed that in ME2. I hope the unbridled ruthless version of Shepard will return in ME2. I want to feel horrified by Shepard's renegade actions because they are totally opposite of what I'd do in a given situation.
#9
Posté 07 septembre 2011 - 05:01
Onpoint17
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I liked that quality in ME1 with the renegade Shepard -- gunning down people with the slightest provocation. Although it was uncomfortable for me to watch shepard slaughter the colonists on Feros and execute Shiala, I liked that shepard could be that ruthless. I missed that in ME2. I hope the unbridled ruthless version of Shepard will return in ME3. I want to feel horrified by Shepard's renegade actions because they are totally opposite of what I'd do in a given situation.
#10
Posté 08 septembre 2011 - 03:23
swenson
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It kind of depends on how much you know about Saren and indoctrination at that point. If Feros is the first place you went, well, Shepard doesn't have much evidence to support the stuff Shiala's saying about indoctrination. For all she knows, Shiala's lying through her teeth (or telling partial truths) to save her own skin, and as soon as you leave, she's going to go back to Saren (or get off scot-free for crimes she willingly committed). In that case, I actually can see a solid argument in favor of killing her--as a Spectre, you are the law and have the right to administer justice, and as far as you can tell, Shiala did a great deal of evil of her own free will.
It's really only from conversations with Liara and information on Noveria that you can truly begin to understand that Shiala wasn't lying--she really was under Sovereign's control. And she's even honest enough to admit that at the beginning, she did follow Saren willingly, but she's changed.
I know in videogames it's common to just accept as truth whatever people say to you, because it usually really is true, but from a real-world perspective you can't always assume that. So I can see both sides of the issue. That being said, once you understand indoctrination, there's a whole lot more evidence for the "right" thing to do being to leave her alive, where she can make some atonement for the things she did while under Sovereign's control.
It's really only from conversations with Liara and information on Noveria that you can truly begin to understand that Shiala wasn't lying--she really was under Sovereign's control. And she's even honest enough to admit that at the beginning, she did follow Saren willingly, but she's changed.
I know in videogames it's common to just accept as truth whatever people say to you, because it usually really is true, but from a real-world perspective you can't always assume that. So I can see both sides of the issue. That being said, once you understand indoctrination, there's a whole lot more evidence for the "right" thing to do being to leave her alive, where she can make some atonement for the things she did while under Sovereign's control.
