162 réponses à ce sujet

[PauseforEffect]

Thank you, although....if there was a bomb, there wouldn't have been an issue with the Collector Base now would there?

[jasonsantanna]

If you listen to harbinger really well he speaks as if the reapers are doing something noble , almost make the harvesting a blessing or something to be appreciated . . .
TIM has almost the same views toward experiments and tech in the name of humanity

[Bad King]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Blow up base, TIM is mad,tries to kill you.

Keep base, Harby says ello mate to TIM and they broker an arrangement or something.

"No." -- Sten

Also, according to Mac Walters, Cerberus are not trying to hunt Shepard down, the only reason they are trying to kill him is because their plan in ME3 (we don't know what that is yet) is at odds with Shepard's plan. For example on the Salarian homeworld they are trying to kill the fertile female and Shepard is getting in the way of that.

Modifié par Bad King, 26 août 2011 - 07:37 .

[Silver77nz]

http://wccftech.com/...orking-reapers/

Now the biggest twist of the game which has been revealed in the game, We previously came to know that Cerberus will go against Shepard in Mass Effect 3 with pics including Commander Shepard engaging through hordes of Cerberus troops. The answer is simple “They are Working for the Reapers”, Im pretty amazed after hearing this i mean the guys who helped you defeat collectors and saved humanity from the reapers threat were actually working for them.

A couple of things that had me thinking is when you find out the Collectors are running comparisons of their DNA with humans. The collectors are willing to pay for your body. Maybe the Reapers want to see if they can do to humans what they did to the Protheans.

Also their is this.... http://masseffect.wi...)/Battle_Quotes
Obviously we have impressed the reapers enough. Was the Illusive man told they would make us the dominant species??

Modifié par Silverpearl1977, 27 août 2011 - 02:51 .

[shep82]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The answer to that question is quite simple.

LOL I love that movie.

[Mad180]

 I don't understand why some people see TIM as the anti-hero of Mass Effect. This story is about Shepard and how he/she will save the universe not TIM. Very little is known about him and the things we do know are not good. For the whole of ME1 Cerberus was running experiments on humans and other races to create super soldiers. But super soldiers to fight who... the Reapers? Because what good would an army of foot soldiers and shock troops be against the Reapers? Zero good is what I'm thinking, but those same troops would be great against everyone else.

Now this brings me to ME2 where The Illusive Man is revealed to us, and illusive is the best word to use in describing the plot of ME2. Your point of view is very limited in this game. You've been out for two years and your only source of information is from TIM and he flat out lies or witholds important parts of said information. Everything he tells you to go find out, it seems he already knows about. He knew the Collectors were abducting humans. He knew the Collector ship was a trap and he knew about the IFF. He may have already known about the Collector base and what they were building. The fact that he used the word "harvesting" (before we knew what they were doing) to describe what the Collectors were doing with the colonies was very interesting to me. Correct me if I'm wrong but when I here the word harvesting I think of food and not people. So why would TIM use it if he didn't have an idea of what was happening already?

He hides the truth and tells lies but the one that really got me was his Liara is working for the Shadow Broker and cannot be trusted line. Wait...what... really? Was that before or after she took Shepard's body from him and gave it to you?<_<

I will say that I don't think TIM is indoctrinated. He's not being directly influenced by a Reaper but his contact with the monolith has changed him. He knows more about the Reapers than any organic and I truely believe that he believes the key to defeating the Reapers is to understand and use their tech. But he's wrong because they want us to use their tech. He should be using his resources to build new tech and that way the Reapers won't know what hit'em. Both Sovereign and Legion say that by using the Reaper tech we are developing along the paths they desire. Legion says we should build our own future and I agree. 

Ok now to answer the question: Why is TIM trying to kill Shepard in ME3? Well I have no idea. I never thought he was a good guy. So any explanation outside of he was really trying to help you by having his troops shoot at you  will be fine by me.

[Wolverfrog]

The Protheans left behind something the Reapers need or want; foreshadowed by the fact the Shadow Broker believed they had plans other than Illos. Shepard is the only one in the galaxy who can interface with Prothean techology due to holding the cipher. The Illusive Man would rather have Shepard dead than let the cipher fall into Reaper hands.

[Wereparrot]

jasonsantanna wrote...

This thread will try and focus on theories or plot ideas on why TIM and Cerberus are willing or trying to kill Shepard and crew.
It has been stated that TIM may have been indoctrinated from the start or way before ME2 , if that is true then why rebuild Shep and send him on a mission to destroy or stop , "The Reapers" and the collectors.
In another thread that prompted this thread, a poster stated that TIM may have found a way to control the Reapers and Shep may be in his way of controlling them for his domination of the galaxy.
My personal take is that weather you keep or destroy the collector base , I believe TIM retrieves some type of secrets of the Reapers , as far as indoctrination, I think he has found a way to do his own indoctrination and bringing together a army of Cerberus troops which IMHO may be clones of Shep or have his DNA , made similar in the way Miranda was created.

WHATS YOUR THEORY, WE WANT TO KEEP THIS GOING UNTIL ME3 DROPS IN MARCH

*tears hair out* Yet again I ask: do we know for sure that TIM is still part of Cerberus at the time of ME3, and if he is do we know that he personally is Shepard's enemy? If we don't know this yet, can we please stop jumping to conclusions.

[Robert-42]

Not serius idea:
The reaper hacked the communcation systems of cerberus and control now cerberus' troops

even less serious idea:
TIM knows, that sheppard has been indoctrinated (while arrival). Sheppard thinks he's defeating the reapsers but truly he is helping them. So TIM is trying to stop him.

[lovgreno]

Well, judging from ME history (especialy Cerberus history) I say that indoctrination is always a risk you have to consider when there are reapers and reaper tech around. But it would be kind of a too easy sollution I think, I like it better if the villain (now TIMmy has, for unknown reasons, gone from necesary evil to a threat to humanity and everything, deal with it) does have some reason for his actions that at least from his point of wiev seems like the right thing to do (Saren for example, did have some decent arguments for his actions, even though he was getting increasingly indoctrinated).

But making a deal with reapers seems too stupid for TIMmy, I like to see him as very smart and practical, because he knows what happened to Saren.

But how about this; TIMmy belives that he can defeat the reapers or at least keep humanity alive but wants the reapers to weaken the rest of the galaxy first to help his pipe dream of human dominance. Shepard, even a insecure one who fears aliens, realises that TIMmys ego has finaly got the better of his practical side and fell to hubris. This can happen to even smart persons so it sounds reasonably believable to me. TIMmys fierce idealism and isolationism also makes him vunerable to his own ego. Shepard and TIMmy realises that their different plans to save humanity are not compatible so they have no choice but to destroy eachothers. The weak part of this scenario is that I don't think of TIMmy as a bloodthirsty person, he don't realy want aliens any harm even though he won't let them stand in the way for his elitistic plan to save humanity from itself. On the contrary he should realise that strong alien cultures will strenghten humanity if they are friendly against humanity. But perhaps I overestimate him, perhaps he is just another insecure elitist. His talk of dominance certanly suggests so.

[AClockworkMelon]

In that video Casey Hudson says at 3:10 "In Mass Effect 3 the Reapers are actually working with Cerberus." You have Reapers and Cerberus agents side-by-side attacking Earth and its defenders. Anyone who still sees TIM as a good guy at this point is deluded. I suppose you could say he's a "good guy" in the same sense as Saren was, which is to say not at all. The only alternative explanation is that TIM is no longer in control of his organization. 

Modifié par AClockworkMelon, 27 août 2011 - 12:58 .

[jasonsantanna]

Mad180 wrote...

 I don't understand why some people see TIM as the anti-hero of Mass Effect. This story is about Shepard and how he/she will save the universe not TIM. Very little is known about him and the things we do know are not good. For the whole of ME1 Cerberus was running experiments on humans and other races to create super soldiers. But super soldiers to fight who... the Reapers? Because what good would an army of foot soldiers and shock troops be against the Reapers? Zero good is what I'm thinking, but those same troops would be great against everyone else.

Now this brings me to ME2 where The Illusive Man is revealed to us, and illusive is the best word to use in describing the plot of ME2. Your point of view is very limited in this game. You've been out for two years and your only source of information is from TIM and he flat out lies or witholds important parts of said information. Everything he tells you to go find out, it seems he already knows about. He knew the Collectors were abducting humans. He knew the Collector ship was a trap and he knew about the IFF. He may have already known about the Collector base and what they were building. The fact that he used the word "harvesting" (before we knew what they were doing) to describe what the Collectors were doing with the colonies was very interesting to me. Correct me if I'm wrong but when I here the word harvesting I think of food and not people. So why would TIM use it if he didn't have an idea of what was happening already?

He hides the truth and tells lies but the one that really got me was his Liara is working for the Shadow Broker and cannot be trusted line. Wait...what... really? Was that before or after she took Shepard's body from him and gave it to you?<_<

I will say that I don't think TIM is indoctrinated. He's not being directly influenced by a Reaper but his contact with the monolith has changed him. He knows more about the Reapers than any organic and I truely believe that he believes the key to defeating the Reapers is to understand and use their tech. But he's wrong because they want us to use their tech. He should be using his resources to build new tech and that way the Reapers won't know what hit'em. Both Sovereign and Legion say that by using the Reaper tech we are developing along the paths they desire. Legion says we should build our own future and I agree. 

Ok now to answer the question: Why is TIM trying to kill Shepard in ME3? Well I have no idea. I never thought he was a good guy. So any explanation outside of he was really trying to help you by having his troops shoot at you  will be fine by me.

I think you summed it up well, I tried to point that out a few post ago, but you hit the nail on the head , a lot of things in ME2 are just lies mostly given out by TIM , and yes I was always puzzled why he would tells Shep Liara is working for the shadow broker, I was like what? Then he turns around and gives her info on where the SB base is , he manipulates, ppl for his own goals , that's the key to a lot of his actions.
You are spot on about the reaper tech giving him insight , this is my same view as well he knows more than what he let's on . If I may steal a little from the Thundercats , the same way the sword of omens gives Liono insight but not the complete vision, is the same way I imagine TIM sees visions , in ME evolution he tells Saren's Brother you don't understand what it is you have , he is also able to speak and understand languages of aliens , that he has never known , without the use of a translator of course.
So that Reaper tech , to me has evolved him into a seer of sorts . . .
Like he has said information is his business he knows more than what he let's on to and uses it to his advantage.

[KevShep]

jasonsantanna wrote...

If you listen to harbinger really well he speaks as if the reapers are doing something noble , almost make the harvesting a blessing or something to be appreciated . . .
TIM has almost the same views toward experiments and tech in the name of humanity

I think that cerberus and the reapers have the same goals and motives. I still dont know what that is but its not far fetched ether.

[Wereparrot]

AClockworkMelon wrote...



In that video Casey Hudson says at 3:10 "In Mass Effect 3 the Reapers are actually working with Cerberus." You have Reapers and Cerberus agents side-by-side attacking Earth and its defenders. Anyone who still sees TIM as a good guy at this point is deluded. I suppose you could say he's a "good guy" in the same sense as Saren was, which is to say not at all. The only alternative explanation is that TIM is no longer in control of his organization. 

Cerberus, but not neccessarily TIM. Untill we KNOW that TIM is Shepard's enemy, the alternative explanation is as good if not better than the theory that TIM is Shepard's enemy, given that the only evidence for this is that TIM is in charge of Cerberus in ME2.

I for one hope TIM is still an ally.

[jasonsantanna]

. . .Or it could be that from working in the Omega 4 relay area where the collector base The Reapers some how take over Cerberus and its troops clone them and use them , with out TIM having to do anything with it , in the new comic what or who are those creatures that Aria and her goons deal with on Omega . . . ? Do we ever or will we ever see a Cerberus trooper without his gear on . . . ?

[Mad180]

Wereparrot wrote...

AClockworkMelon wrote...



In that video Casey Hudson says at 3:10 "In Mass Effect 3 the Reapers are actually working with Cerberus." You have Reapers and Cerberus agents side-by-side attacking Earth and its defenders. Anyone who still sees TIM as a good guy at this point is deluded. I suppose you could say he's a "good guy" in the same sense as Saren was, which is to say not at all. The only alternative explanation is that TIM is no longer in control of his organization. 

Cerberus, but not neccessarily TIM. Untill we KNOW that TIM is Shepard's enemy, the alternative explanation is as good if not better than the theory that TIM is Shepard's enemy, given that the only evidence for this is that TIM is in charge of Cerberus in ME2.

I for one hope TIM is still an ally.

Well I feel that TIM was never an ally  and also in the video at 3:45 Casey says "The Illusive Man is behind all the stuff Cerberus is doing."

[GodWood]

Mad180 wrote...
Well I feel that TIM was never an ally 

Why?

He brought you back to life, provided you with a ship, weapons, tech, specialists (companions), a crew, information and helped you defeat the collectors.

Sounds like an ally to me.

[Sebby]

GodWood wrote...

Mad180 wrote...
Well I feel that TIM was never an ally 

Why?

He brought you back to life, provided you with a ship, weapons, tech, specialists (companions), a crew, information and helped you defeat the collectors.

Sounds like an ally to me.

A damn good one too. They supported Shepard far more than the Council did in ME1.

[GodWood]

Indeed.

So far Cerberus has been Shepard's most helpful ally to date.

[Mad180]

GodWood wrote...

Mad180 wrote...
Well I feel that TIM was never an ally 

Why?

He brought you back to life, provided you with a ship, weapons, tech, specialists (companions), a crew, information and helped you defeat the collectors.

Sounds like an ally to me.

True he did... but did he do it for me or for his own means. I feel so used after playing ME2.

[GodWood]

Mad180 wrote...
True he did... but did he do it for me or for his own means. I feel so used after playing ME2.

Indeed he did.
You both had similar goals so he used you and you used him to achieve them.

That's what allies do.

[Mad180]

GodWood wrote...

Mad180 wrote...
True he did... but did he do it for me or for his own means. I feel so used after playing ME2.

Indeed he did.
You both had similar goals so he used you and you used him to achieve them.

That's what allies do.

I don't recall having a goal of stoping the Collectors that was his goal. I didn't even know what a Collector was until Freedom's Progress. Of course after finding out what they were doing I had to stop them. I couldn't just let them continue to take people and TIM knew that. So therefore I was in his pocket the rest of the game. That being said our goals are very different. I want to stop the Reapers and save the universe. TIM on the other hand wants to dominate the universe by any means.

[Wereparrot]

Mad180 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Mad180 wrote...
True he did... but did he do it for me or for his own means. I feel so used after playing ME2.

Indeed he did.
You both had similar goals so he used you and you used him to achieve them.

That's what allies do.

I don't recall having a goal of stoping the Collectors that was his goal. I didn't even know what a Collector was until Freedom's Progress. Of course after finding out what they were doing I had to stop them. I couldn't just let them continue to take people and TIM knew that. So therefore I was in his pocket the rest of the game. That being said our goals are very different. I want to stop the Reapers and save the universe. TIM on the other hand wants to dominate the universe by any means.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't consider him your ally in adversity, even given his extremist organisation.

Modifié par Wereparrot, 27 août 2011 - 04:00 .

[GodWood]

Mad180 wrote...
I don't recall having a goal of stoping the Collectors that was his goal.

He suspected [correctly] that they were involved with the Reapers.
Stopping the Reapers is your goal. 

I didn't even know what a Collector was until Freedom's Progress. Of course after finding out what they were doing I had to stop them. I couldn't just let them continue to take people and TIM knew that. So therefore I was in his pocket the rest of the game.

So? He wanted to stop the Reapers/Collectors and so did you.
So you both used one another and achieved this common goal.

That's what allies do 

That being said our goals are very different. I want to stop the Reapers and save the universe. TIM on the other hand wants to dominate the universe by any means.

Allies need not agree on everything.