223 réponses à ce sujet

[jbrand2002uk]

Is it just me or have a large number of posters forgotten or ignored the premise that the 1st game in a franchise establishes the universe/world that it and future releases will be set in so of course you have a long detailed and complex story so once that is done there is no need for sequels to be equally as long winded and complex as the 1st game some would do well to remember this before criticising DA2 for its shorter less detailed story.

As for the claim that DAO gave you more choice its rubbish it never gave you more choice it just hid that lack of choice better with more dialogue options and the "Origins" every DAO fan harps on about.

Regardless of what Origin you chose or which dialogue options you picked the end accumulative result was still the same, you are forced to join the grey wardens, you are again forced to raise an army,and quell suprise you are forced to save the world from impending doom of the darkspawn horde.

So please pray tell what choice do you have exactly in DAO? The only answer is none that actually make any difference whatsoever and don't get me started on the whole fade section of DAO or the uber slow tedious combat or that the so called "Epic" story was the most cliche'd mess I'd ever seen and I've seen alot of them and then there's the "Perfect" Warden who's idea of emotional expression reaches the dizzying heights of being able to apparently speak without his mouth moving or any sound coming out of it while waving his arms and shrugging his shoulders what is he a mute ventriloquist ? I spent most of the time thinking where's the guy with his hand shoved up this puppet's behind.

By all means criticise DA2 it had it flaws yes but also quit acting like DAO was the best thing since sliced bread it was no better and totally unoriginal featuring absolutely nothing that hadn't been done to death already but then again most will deny this since as the core audience is most likely adolescent teens who haven't started shaving yet and would likely say "whats one of those" if you said "Sega Megadrive" "SNES" "NES" "Atari Jaguar" "Commodore 64/Amiga 500" or "ZX Spectrum"
hence their claim that DAO's story was "enthralling and Original" "Epic" and many other superlatives.

Modifié par jbrand2002uk, 22 septembre 2011 - 11:56 .

[Joy Divison]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Since everyone mentions gameplay stuff I would like to say Hawke. Hawke has nothing to do with the story. The game can easily go on with out Hawke being present. In Origins no the Warden is important to the story.

Not really. Alistair could have done everything that the PC accomplishes.

There is so much fail in this statement I don't know where to begin.

Saying something that's true = fail?

I realize since DA2 we have have gotten accustomed to superficial characters and events playing out the same way regardless of your choice, but anybody who thinks that Alistair could have accomplished what the Hero of Fereldan did had the indecisive follower with zero leadership attributes been the only warden rescued by Flemeth, either did not play Origins, is quite dense, or is just being arguementative.

[TheReignmaker]

Brenden7 wrote...

How about the "2" in the game title?

This.  Totally this.

[TheReignmaker]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

By all means criticise DA2 it had it flaws yes but also quit acting like DAO was the best thing since sliced bread it was no better and totally unoriginal featuring absolutely nothing that hadn't been done to death already but then again most will deny this since as the core audience is most likely adolescent teens who haven't started shaving yet and would likely say "whats one of those" if you said "Sega Megadrive" "SNES" "NES" "Atari Jaguar" "Commodore 64/Amiga 500" or "ZX Spectrum"
hence their claim that DAO's story was "enthralling and Original" "Epic" and many other superlatives.

Both games are rated M, so technically they're not supposed to be marketed to the adolescents.  Obviously that doesn't stop certain young people from playing, but I think it's rather absurd to make a blanket statement like that. 

Furthermore, if any game is going to be accused of pandering to the "call of duty" crowd (newer generation of gamers) it's not going to be Origins.  Just look at the developer statements behind the creation of both products...DAO was blatently marketed as successor of old-style-RPGs, like Baldur's Gate.  Bioware told us that DA2 had a very different purpose - to appeal to a wider action-oriented audience.

As a fan of DAO, I'll be the first to admit that it wasn't perfect.  But it was (and still is) better than the alternative button-mashing fodder that litters the market.  In crafting the sequel, it's apparent Bioware felt that it'd be within the best interests of everyone to join the mainstream.  This was accomplished by emphasizing the hack-and-slash feel of the combat, which came at the expense of area design, player choice, and customization.

You can nitpick the choice options all you want, but are you really going to try to come on here and argue that DA2 is just as deep as its predecessor?  Good luck with that.  Here's a pro-tip though:  go to metacritic.com and see what objective publications and players have said about both games overall.  Then compare.  DAO was the recepient of numerous awards for a reason.  It's unlikely DA2 will win anything substantial. 

If you prefer DA2 over DAO, that's your opinion.  If you prefer watching Hawke auto-attack through waves of enemies with his ninja-like animations, I'm ok with that.  But forgive those of us who were hoping for something with more substance.

Modifié par TheReignmaker, 22 septembre 2011 - 09:16 .

[jbrand2002uk]

So Brendan are you saying that you assumed DA2 would be exactly like DAO and should have continued your Wardens story just because it was called Dragon Age 2 very circular reasoning did you not read a broad spectrum of reviews play the demo before you bought the game? I guess your one of those that didn't do any of these...... What was that old saying about using your loaf nevermind, hopefully you'll do a bit more thinking before handing over your greenbacks bro

[Wozearly]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

So Brendan are you saying that you assumed DA2 would be exactly like DAO and should have continued your Wardens story just because it was called Dragon Age 2 very circular reasoning did you not read a broad spectrum of reviews play the demo before you bought the game? I guess your one of those that didn't do any of these...... What was that old saying about using your loaf nevermind, hopefully you'll do a bit more thinking before handing over your greenbacks bro

Well, I walked straight into the same trap Brendan did, and didn't interpret reviewers' comments or the demo correctly as indicating the game wasn't just 'different', but radically different.

As Bioware have taken that approach with both the ME and DA franchises, I'll not be using blind trust as my prime method of deciding whether to buy ME3 or DA3.

[jbrand2002uk]

TheReignmaker wrote...
As a fan of DAO, I'll be the first to admit that it wasn't perfect.  But it was (and still is) better than the alternative button-mashing fodder that litters the market.  In crafting the sequel, it's apparent Bioware felt that it'd be within the best interests of everyone to join the mainstream.  This was accomplished by emphasizing the hack-and-slash feel of the combat, which came at the expense of area design, player choice, and customization.

You can nitpick the choice options all you want, but are you really going to try to come on here and argue that DA2 is just as deep as its predecessor?  Good luck with that.  Here's a pro-tip though:  go to metacritic.com and see what objective publications and players have said about both games overall.  Then compare.  DAO was the recepient of numerous awards for a reason.  It's unlikely DA2 will win anything substantial. 

If you prefer DA2 over DAO, that's your opinion.  If you prefer watching Hawke auto-attack through waves of enemies with his ninja-like animations, I'm ok with that.  But forgive those of us who were hoping for something with more substance.

What suprises me is that so many people just pre-ordered on blind faith, or read a wide cross section of reviews from multiple sources ignored what was written and bought anyway and then complained about the game when reviews made it clear that DA2 and DAO are like chalk and cheese they're completely different and since as you can access the internet at home, on your phone in cafe's libarys hell even Mcdonalds for crying out loud and as you say sites like metacritic are widely known and available whats the excuse for not checking out a few reviews which are usually out at least a month before you need to pre order and 2-3months before the games hit the shelves of retail shops.

I always scope out at least 6 reviews from a broad section of the games publishing industry to at least get an idea of what its like and i always take what any Publishers Adverts say with a dose of salt If i have any doubts then i dont Pre Order and i always download the demo before playing ,since as i may be handing over my own hard earned cash as such I've ended only buying games i knew i would enjoy I should note that at 1st i did enjoy DAO but by the 50% complete mark i was thogroughly disappointed and bored but played through the rest in the hope it would get better it didnt it got worse and yes i bought all the DLC for it in the hope it would improve the experiance it didnt but did i come on the forums and complain for 6 months strait? No i chalked it up to experiance took my DAO disk had it laminated and have since used it as a coaster.

 
But back OT do i have pet peeves with DA2 ? well not really because having did thorough research on the game before buying it was quite clear at least a month before release that this was an action RPG so i knew what sort of things to expect hence most of the flaws some DAO fans complain about as if it was a matter of life and death are minor niggles to me nothing more nothing less. 

The 1 piece of sage advice i can pass on after 20 years of playing video games is this: Do your research before handing over your money, don't take what you see and read on the TV trailers and posters as a given and for for heavens sake( P.S I'm an Atheist) its just a game dont take it so seriously there are things in life that are far more important and we'll all live longer happier lives 

[jbrand2002uk]

Wozearly wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

So Brendan are you saying that you assumed DA2 would be exactly like DAO and should have continued your Wardens story just because it was called Dragon Age 2 very circular reasoning did you not read a broad spectrum of reviews play the demo before you bought the game? I guess your one of those that didn't do any of these...... What was that old saying about using your loaf nevermind, hopefully you'll do a bit more thinking before handing over your greenbacks bro

Well, I walked straight into the same trap Brendan did, and didn't interpret reviewers' comments or the demo correctly as indicating the game wasn't just 'different', but radically different.

As Bioware have taken that approach with both the ME and DA franchises, I'll not be using blind trust as my prime method of deciding whether to buy ME3 or DA3.

Thats exactly my point Wozearly not everyone has a mindset towards merticulous research like myself and usually ends up being burned a few times before they catch on if everyone did just this and didnt buy on blind faith as you put it less people would get disappointed while Demo's never give you the whole picture they usually give enough that you can tell wether a game is radically different from its predecessor. All I've tried to do from day 1 on here is just offer some sound advice, some people take my posts as self righteous and sarky maybe they can be interpreted that way but that not my intention so i apoligise if any offence was caused 

[xkg]

^ dude stop talking bs because it seems you know nothing.

"few reviews which are usually out at least a month before you need to pre order and 2-3months before the games hit the shelves of retail shops"

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Go to metacritics and look for earliest reviews ... few days before relese ?
So where are those full game reviews published few months before the game came out ?
Give me some links or stop with this nonsense already.

[jbrand2002uk]

ah xkg my old sparring partner welcome back i missed you where you been bro ? check any decent xbox PC or PS3 magazine most of them are sent a complete of nearly complete version of the game to test at least a month before pre-order the usually complete versions the get are generally 70-90% complete code. Some magazines publish them as reviews, some as previews and pretty much all of them publish regular updates as they receive more complete code this was the case with DA2 at least here in the UK most of the major magazines and internet reviewers had published updates on 90% complete code of DA2 at least a month before release.

Ok here's an automotive example at present i own a current model ford mondeo saloon i like it very much does everything it should and does it exceptionally well does that mean i should buy the next generation ford mondeo on blind trust just because the last one was so good? hell no and the same applies to every consumer product on the market the current product is never a guarantee of quality or the direction of future releases.

Take what Subaru did to their immensely popular Imprezza model for the 1st 3 or so generations of the model it was a saloon, then suddenly POW its now a hatchback does the fact that its a total change from what it was make it bad ? well thats subjective where fans of the Original Imprezza abusive towards the designers? no the showed restraint and either stuck with what they had or moved on to another Marque without the fuss and commotion some of theDAO fans made and still make on here maybe some of the DAO fans should follow this example .

Modifié par jbrand2002uk, 22 septembre 2011 - 10:18 .

[jbrand2002uk]

Oh and xkg clearly you didnt do any of these steps i mentioned hence your anger towards DA2 so i sure aint going to do all your work for you spend some time and you'll find them easy enough but do remember that just because i used my noggin and you didnt doesn't make what i say bs, but i'm not going to get mad at you why because i feel sorry for you, clearly you bought all the hype and spin and bought blindly in which case have a sympathetic slap on the back.

Or you read reviews like the Metacritic one you often name drop anyway and bought it regardless in which case you have only yourself to blame mon ami so i will say adieu and de rien toodle pip and chocks away old chap. If you still feel bad dont worry you can always talk to the little dude who makes you laugh and no i dont mean Varric

[casamar]

My biggest pet peeve is when discussions about DAII devolve into insults, name calling, and locked threads

[jbrand2002uk]

casamar wrote...

My biggest pet peeve is when discussions about DAII devolve into insults, name calling, and locked threads

I totally agree which is why my posts are insult free 

[TheReignmaker]

I for one did not pre-order DA2. I played the demo and read the reviews. That was enough for me to understand that it wasn't a true sequel. That being said, Bioware is known for many quality offerings, so I don't fault people for relying on its name alone. However, I imagine many of those customers won't make that mistake again.

Though I've said this before, I think a lot of the frustration stems from the fact that the sequel was made for a different audience of gamers. If Bioware wanted to make a game for someone else, why didn't they create a new property or call the game a spinoff (as it truly was)?

I've mentioned this before, but it's like having Peter Jackson direct Fellowship of the Ring and then allowing Michael Bay to come in and direct The Two Towers. Sure the second offering has more flash and glitter, but it comes at the expense of substance. For fans of the first installment, it's like watching your story and characters get murdered. That being said, Michael Bay movies still make a lot money. People like the action and explosions. But there's a reason the studio didn't give Bay a call to do the upcoming Hobbit movie.

While I don't have the numbers in front of me, it's pretty clear that DA2 did not achieve the sales and acclaim of its predecessor. What this tells me is that despite the changes, DA2 was unable to attract the number of new converts for which it was designed. Keeping that in mind, it's well-known to have disappointed an existing fan base. While not a bad game by most accounts, it failed to meet the high standards for which Bioware is known for.

As a result of all this, we now hear that we'll be returning to a massive world in DA3. This is a good thing. Hopefully this is a sign that the game will return to its roots. But whether it's for old-school RPG fans or for the action-happy console crowd remains to be seen.

Modifié par TheReignmaker, 22 septembre 2011 - 11:32 .

[Joy Divison]

jbrand2002uk:

We pre-ordered the game because Origins was beyond good - it was the best gaming experience we had in years - and Bioware had a reputation and we were told, continuously, by the designers that although they were making changes, these changes would ADD to the Origins experience and that the things we loved from Origins would still be there.

I wouldn't exactly call that "blind faith," but yes, we did get burned and even EA and Bioware must be aware they are not going to get nearly as many preorders for DA3.

And you know what? It doesn't mattered if we got "burned." Our opinions toward the game are still valid. I still don't like:

the illusion of choice
one cave/sewer/dungeon
non-developed antagonists
All of Act 3
150 hit point heroes fighting bad guys with over 100,000 HPs
the lack of care or attention to artistic backgrounds
etc etc etc

Modifié par Joy Divison, 23 septembre 2011 - 05:29 .

[Maconbar]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

casamar wrote...

My biggest pet peeve is when discussions about DAII devolve into insults, name calling, and locked threads

I totally agree which is why my posts are insult free 

insult free. haha

[jbrand2002uk]

While i sympathise with those people who are annoyed it was advertised as a sequel to DAO rather than the spin off that it really was since they are 2 totally different types of RPG with the 1st being more traditional and the second being more action oriented Bioware isnt the only company to have done this it has happened many more times than i dare to count over the last 20 years, when the 1st game has become a best seller the sequels are always going to be hyped up and claims made to the fanbase that are not always acurate because the company wants to get as big a return as possible on its investment, it may not be entirely fair to the customers and fans but thats the way it is and likely will always be this way.

In response to Joy Division i agree with you on the particilar faults you listed and some others though these particular Faults are not unique to DA2 and are quite commonplace in many other action games that have RPG elements like The Force Unleashed series since as the emphasis in DA2 is on the action these faults are nothing more than minor niggles.

Yes your opinions are still valid and i wouldnt for 1 second say they weren't, though on the illusion of choice DAO is far more guilty of this than DA2, there's no more real choices in DAO than there was in DA2.

The same lack of choice in DAO is just hidden better behind a raft of dialogue options and the multiple Origins starting options. The most common fault I see on the forums though is posters trying to compare the 2 games like for like because they're both part of the dragon age franchise, alot of posters seem to forget that a comparison cant be made between the two because while they are both part of the same franchise theyre not the same kind of RPG.

It would be like arguing that a comparison can be made between a Vespa scooter and a Ducati 999 superbike on the basis that they both have 2 wheels and are therefore alike.
The only logical way to make a comarison and therefore criticise it would be to compare DA2 to another action RPG like The Force Unleashed games ,not a fully fledged traditional RPG like DAO

[Joy Divison]

Having a non-developed antagonist is not a "minor niggle."

A RPG cannot excuse its flaws by claiming it's "action oriented."

If Bioware is going to call the game "Dragon Age 2," then it is absolutely fair to compare it to Dragon Age: Origins.

The choices you make in DA2 don't have any real gameplay consequences other than a letter showing up in your mailbox. In Origins, I could choose to genuinely ally with a principle antagonist (who wont turn on me for a plot device reason), field an army of werewolves, and decide who rules two kingdoms.

I don't think DA2 is as bad as a lot of Origin fans who gave it a zero on meta-critic, but people who apologize for the games faults are doing a disservice to the franchise. Let Bioware and EA know they dropped the ball so if they want to make money, they have to live up to the standards established in Origins.

[nikkylee]

I'm going to start off by saying that I like DA2 for the most part. It was definitely a disappointment, but it has it's own good qualities too. I'm not much of a gamer, so anything that adds to my tiny list of "Games I Love" is a good thing.

That said, I'd have to say story. Or, specifically, that it doesn't feel like I ever really GET TO the point of the story until the end of each act, and then just as it feels like we get going BOOM... new story. Or credits, as the case may be. I've played, start to finish, at least 5 times. I have probably 7-8 incomplete playthroughs (most of which are complete up to act 3), and STILL I could not tell you which quests count as side quests and which ones are storyline.

A close second would be companion interaction. Not the amount of it, I can deal with 2-3 conversations per act (even though I'd love about a hundred). It's the lack of PC responses. In Origins, we could have conversations. They companions asked questions about my Warden, and it let me build who they were and how they related to each other. In any given conversation in DA2, I have maybe 2-3 chances to respond and honestly, Hawke to Hawke it hardly varies at all and even if you choose another option, the NPCs response is almost certainly the same. If I want to flesh out a conversation, I have to "investigate". Once you've explored those options once or twice, why do it ever again?

[jbrand2002uk]

What I'm saying Joy Division is its impossible to compare DAO to DA2 because they are different types of RPG and therefore have different priorities DAO is a traditional RPG so story,characters and dialogue and in depth strategy take priority over things like combat.

DA2 is an action game with RPG elements( A RPG-lite for arguments sake) just like The Force Unleashed games, therefore the first priority is action and a focus on combat specifically so things like a deep story,endless dialogue options etc take a back seat priority wise because they are not as important in an action game with RPG elements to it which is what DA2 is the title Dragon Age 2 is a simple statement of fact in itself( that this is the second game in the Dragon Age franchise).

Being called Dragon Age 2 does not mean that it has to be exactly like DAO just because they have Dragon Age 2 in the title.If you know anything about cars or if your american Automobiles are you familiar with the Subaru Impreza ? From its release in 1993 till 2007 it was a saloon(Sedan for you americans) car now in March 2008 they changed it totally from a saloon(sedan) to a hatchback( or liftback for those of you in the USA) and yet it is still called the Subaru Impeza following your reasoning on DAO/DA2:

Are you saying Subaru shouldn't call this an Impreza anymore because of the radical design change from a sedan to a liftback? Are you saying that its logical to criticise the liftback bodied Impeza's luggage compartment as too small because the older sedan bodied Impreza's luggage space was bigger?

Just because a Vespa scooter and a Ducati 999 superbike both have 2 wheels doesnt mean you can say oh well the Ducati is great and the Vespa is rubbish because the Ducati accelerates faster.
so when you say its fair to compare DA2 with DAO because its called Dragon Age 2 I'm sorry to burst your kindergarden school level resoning bubble here but you are totally 100% wrong anyone who makes such comparisons following your "logic" would not have a job as a game reviewer for anymore than about 5 minutes before they were fired frankly

[Pasquale1234]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

casamar wrote...

My biggest pet peeve is when discussions about DAII devolve into insults, name calling, and locked threads

I totally agree which is why my posts are insult free 

jbrand2002uk wrote...
so when you say its fair to compare DA2 with DAO because its called
Dragon Age 2 I'm sorry to burst your kindergarden school level resoning
bubble here but you are totally 100% wrong anyone who makes such
comparisons following your "logic" would not have a job as a game
reviewer for anymore than about 5 minutes before they were fired frankly

[Joy Divison]

The irony :innocent:

Modifié par Joy Divison, 24 septembre 2011 - 12:26 .

[Kingthlayer]

My biggest pet peeve is probably this forum, you would think after 6 months people who hate a game wouldn't be on a message board about it.

[Shadow6773]

Its a draw.. between the main story line that was an uninspiring repetitive mess and/or my lack of ability playing "Hawke" to influence any meaningful part of said story. Apparently the only benefit gained from my "rise to power" was my proficiency in slaughtering random mobs who attack me for no reason, over and over, but not the influence to stop or scare them into submission after killing hundreds of them to no avail.