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[Galagraphia]

@Avilia, aww, that pony! I want to huggle it forever... Maybe I should try myself in making stuffed toys?

@CGG, I sort of branded Cullen as "Once a templar - always a templar". I wish there was an other way for him to live, but his loyalty to the order seems to me like some sort of a coping mechanism. And sometimes I think: "What else does he have? What would he have if he quit the order?" And the only answer I see is "nothing". Order gives his life a meaning. He has a purpose, it may be a wrong purpose, but he doesn't have or can't see other options.

I don't believe love could save him, to be honest. Not love alone at least. There must be something else, something big. I can see him as a companion in DA3, because if our next Hero will be trying to make peace, I think Cullen would like to help. He never liked killing mages. But he would probably be the one who "fears the Change", because he thinks that this Circle system is the only wat to protect mages from themselves and other people from mages. He has the potential to change his views in this peacemaking journey. Because he saw 2 mage rebellions. And somewhere in the corner of his mind there may be a doubt that perhaps something is wrong with the Circle? Why would mages rebel and risk their lives if they had better options? But there's the Chant, there is the Rule, and he probably doesn't let himself think about this little doubt. If our hero can make him think about it and understand, then maybe Cullen will change with the world around him. And then the romance with him will be great, because you will help him to accept the changing world and find his place in it. And then maybe there will be a happy ending.

Oh well, I feel a bit pessimistic today. I just want Cullen's storry to be interesting and dramatic. Not just about dragging him into a tent and doing all kinds of Chantry-forbidden things together. That would be too boring for me after trying to live inside his cute pixel head for 1,5 years. Though probably a lot of fun for the first 3 times

Edit. Let's have some Aimo art, because he's so adorable here!

Modifié par Galagraphia, 01 septembre 2011 - 05:23 .

[Bekkael]

Sialater wrote...

So... Anna Hawke killed Anders. And Fenris' kiss didn't make me feel better. Cullen and Carver standing up for Hawke had better be worth it.

I hated my kill Anders playthrough. :(I don't care how insane he is, it's still a painful thing to do.

A kiss from Cullen would have made it better though.

[silentstephi]

Monica21 wrote...

Yeah, I'm not sure how well this would work out either. I think any player who romanced him would feel kind of odd since their Amells are still attached somewhat to Cullen. But, I've read enough fanfic (not even Cullen or DA related) to know that stranger things have happened. Though, I still have to wonder if Cullen as an LI can be truly satisfying without a mage PC.

Few things.  I can definitily see a Non Mage PC having just as hard a time and satisfying time with Cullen.  Just because you don't have the forbidden tryst flavor to it between a Templar and a Mage doesn't mean you don't have the 'you should join me in this' angle.  Especially for a Warrior with Templar as a specialization. 

The forbidden fruit thing has been done into the ground (Fenris/Mage!Hawke).  Plus, Amell or Surana is his past.  Anders had a past, Merrill had a past, but they grew beyond it.  I would think it brings his character to life even more if there's a future PC you can play that has the level of interaction we get from Companions/LIs with Cullen.  And the Kinkmeme would just explode at that point, but hey.


If they made Cullen a LI for DA3, you bet your tush I'd be making a Warrior just to romance him.  It's a win all around, really. X3  (Though I was all excited about Anders and well THAT blew up in my face... -.-)

[silentstephi]

*belatedly realizes that Cullen is a red head*

Wait... why is he blond in DA2? Lyrium dye job? Oo

[Sialater]

Bekkael wrote...

Sialater wrote...

So... Anna Hawke killed Anders. And Fenris' kiss didn't make me feel better. Cullen and Carver standing up for Hawke had better be worth it.

I hated my kill Anders playthrough. :(I don't care how insane he is, it's still a painful thing to do.

A kiss from Cullen would have made it better though.

Well... it was almost worth it.  Then that little circle thing with all the companions' faces on it appeared during Varric's last scene.  

[R2s Muse]

Bekkael wrote...

Sialater wrote...

So... Anna Hawke killed Anders. And Fenris' kiss didn't make me feel better. Cullen and Carver standing up for Hawke had better be worth it.

I hated my kill Anders playthrough. :(I don't care how insane he is, it's still a painful thing to do.

A kiss from Cullen would have made it better though.

Yes, I also found my dead!Anders playthrough hard... and all I had waiting for me was Sebastian's totally non-romantic talk at the end. *sigh* It was definitely the Cullen standing up for me ... oh, and that bow... that made it happy. But a Cullen kiss??? Heck, I'd probably kill off a few companions for that...

[RagingCyclone]

R2, I have a feeling that you and a few others would go for the Cullen kiss if he turned and completely OOC said Kirkwall was a lost cause and he would run away with you if you burned it to the ground. The next scene would be your Hawke and Cullen kissing and roasting marshmallows. LOL

[R2s Muse]

@RagingCyclone - You got me. I'd bring the marshmallows!

[silentstephi]

/pokes fingers together....

So I guess I'm alone in having only one PT that Anders is alive, huh?

[Sialater]

silentstephi wrote...

/pokes fingers together....

So I guess I'm alone in having only one PT that Anders is alive, huh?

LOL, maybe.  The Viscount ending just isn't bonus enough to kill him for me.

[RagingCyclone]

silentstephi, I'll admit I am on my fifth PT, and in the previous four Anders has not survived. I'm not sure on my current, though. Depends on what this Hawke's reaction will be, he's a kind of middle-of-the-road guy.

[miraclemight]

silentstephi wrote...

/pokes fingers together....

So I guess I'm alone in having only one PT that Anders is alive, huh?

Nope, you're not. I have one with him alive, one with him gone away, and in the rest he's dead, even in my pro-mage playthroughs.

[silentstephi]

Admittedly, the one where he's a live spawned my Ties story... of sorts. But I don't kill Anders to become Viscountess. Most of those play throughs are mage siders.

I just... I dunno. Hard to keep him alive after that. It probably helps that the Hawke's that do kill him have no romantic entanglements with him.

[sagefic]

argh. blast it. double post with the corrected one below. here, have a cullen instead.

Modifié par sagequeen, 01 septembre 2011 - 07:23 .

[sagefic]

silentstephi wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Yeah, I'm not sure how well this would work out either. I think any player who romanced him would feel kind of odd since their Amells are still attached somewhat to Cullen. But, I've read enough fanfic (not even Cullen or DA related) to know that stranger things have happened. Though, I still have to wonder if Cullen as an LI can be truly satisfying without a mage PC.

Few things.  I can definitily see a Non Mage PC having just as hard a time and satisfying time with Cullen.  Just because you don't have the forbidden tryst flavor to it between a Templar and a Mage doesn't mean you don't have the 'you should join me in this' angle.  Especially for a Warrior with Templar as a specialization. 

The forbidden fruit thing has been done into the ground (Fenris/Mage!Hawke).  Plus, Amell or Surana is his past.  Anders had a past, Merrill had a past, but they grew beyond it.  I would think it brings his character to life even more if there's a future PC you can play that has the level of interaction we get from Companions/LIs with Cullen.  And the Kinkmeme would just explode at that point, but hey.


If they made Cullen a LI for DA3, you bet your tush I'd be making a Warrior just to romance him.  It's a win all around, really. X3  (Though I was all excited about Anders and well THAT blew up in my face... -.-)

huh, see, i don't see fenris/magehawke as forbidden fruit so much as an unlikely combo. as he's an escaped slave with reasons to hate mages and hawke is a mage with reason to feel like a slave constantly on the run from templar masters, they have reasons to become rivals or friends - but there's no external laws or customs saying they can't be together. there's just fenris' internal prejudice and the challenges of elf/human relationships.

whereas cullen is truly under orders not to be in replationships without the chantry's approval, and cullen+mage would be a very unlikely to get approval thing. but it totally agree that it would be strange to hear how they get around the fact that cullen had a crush on the warden (possibly) and likely is fancied BY hawke (in my playthroughs, always). so yeah. that would be interesting to see play out.

Modifié par sagequeen, 01 septembre 2011 - 07:21 .

[R2s Muse]

Well, in an admission of how non-role playey I can be, I let Anders "try to make things right" so I could have a good healer. (except in my Andersmance PT, of course)

edit: @sagequeen, agree that would be an interesting progression for someone who ostensibly is a rule follower.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 01 septembre 2011 - 07:23 .

[Ellyria]

silentstephi wrote...

/pokes fingers together....

So I guess I'm alone in having only one PT that Anders is alive, huh?

If I'm playing a Hawke that romances Anders, he lives.
If I'm playing a Hawke that romances Fenris or Sebastian, Anders gets the murder knife.

So no, you're not alone.

[silentstephi]

sagequeen wrote...

silentstephi wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Yeah, I'm not sure how well this would work out either. I think any player who romanced him would feel kind of odd since their Amells are still attached somewhat to Cullen. But, I've read enough fanfic (not even Cullen or DA related) to know that stranger things have happened. Though, I still have to wonder if Cullen as an LI can be truly satisfying without a mage PC.

Few things.  I can definitily see a Non Mage PC having just as hard a time and satisfying time with Cullen.  Just because you don't have the forbidden tryst flavor to it between a Templar and a Mage doesn't mean you don't have the 'you should join me in this' angle.  Especially for a Warrior with Templar as a specialization. 

The forbidden fruit thing has been done into the ground (Fenris/Mage!Hawke).  Plus, Amell or Surana is his past.  Anders had a past, Merrill had a past, but they grew beyond it.  I would think it brings his character to life even more if there's a future PC you can play that has the level of interaction we get from Companions/LIs with Cullen.  And the Kinkmeme would just explode at that point, but hey.


If they made Cullen a LI for DA3, you bet your tush I'd be making a Warrior just to romance him.  It's a win all around, really. X3  (Though I was all excited about Anders and well THAT blew up in my face... -.-)

huh, see, i don't see fenris/magehawke as forbidden fruit so much as an unlikely combo. as he's an escaped slave with reasons to hate mages and hawke is a mage with reason to feel like a slave constantly on the run from templar masters, they have reasons to become rivals or friends - but there's no external laws or customs saying they can't be together. there's just fenris' internal prejudice and the challenges of elf/human relationships.

whereas cullen is truly under orders not to be in replationships without the chantry's approval, and cullen+mage would be a very unlikely to get approval thing. but it totally agree that it would be strange to hear how they get around the fact that cullen had a crush on the warden (possibly) and likely is fancied BY hawke (in my playthroughs, always). so yeah. that would be interesting to see play out.

Ok, I was thinking more in opposites attract in the instance of Mage!Hawke/Fenris.  Bad comparison there.

Getting around the Amell crush is just another instance of his past.  As for Hawke's feelings, the game designers can't plan for Hawke's feelings on an NPC because they don't control Hawke.  But considering we're not even given a chance to be flirty or him be so in return in DA2, I think getting around that for the Devs is no problem.

Sure the Hawke's we have can have all sorts of feelings, which would change our perceptions and preconceptions, but even then, I think you could have one hell of a story with a new PC and Cullen with a romance line that could possibly work.

[sagefic]

i agree, stephi.

cullen is just LI material all over. i was so happy to see this thread because i hope the devs take note.

and again, i really hope a somewhat happy ending is available for him and a da3 PC

[Avilia]

 Sorry I'm late to this discussion but after giving it some thought, I'm going to throw my opinion out there.

I don't think that Cullen's crush on the young female mage warden is such a defining element of his personality.  When you talk to him in the cage he seems to have dealt with it and is ready to put it away.  Uldred using his feelings to torment him seems to have the effect of making him face it and think about, perhaps in a way he wouldn't have if everything had gone along normally.

It seems to me that his mentioning 'knowing an Amell' in a rather sentimental way is the same thing anyone might do.  He's older and looking back through rose coloured glasses (as you do) at someone he remembers liking, who also saved his life.

From a pure gameplay/story point of view I don't think anything more than a vague mention would be necessary (as was done in DA2) if only because a large number of people don't play female mages in Origins.

Now I've got myself in trouble :innocent:

Duty is his defining personality trait.  However, the world has gone to, erm, pot, and the Chantry doesn't exist in the same way it did before the events in DA2.   If the player chooses the mage ending, Cullen has made a decision that could potentially put him on the other side of the conflict than where he might have stood otherwise.

I've always seen Cullen as my version of the "Templar codex" a bit like Fenris is the "Tevinter codex".  He represents what Templars should be and not what they may have turned into.  I don't mean whether they're right or wrong but simply that their intent should be to protect mages as much as to keep them away from the general populace.

Hope that makes a bit of sense?  I'm one mouthful into my first coffee of the day so keep that in mind 

Edited to add an actual conclusion (/sigh my brain is very disorganised) - I can't tell from Cullen's dialogue how much of a crisis of faith (for want of a better term) he's experienced over the course of the game.  Is it enough to push him away from the Chantry?  I don't know - that really depends on the writers if they decide he's worth bringing back.  As he stands he would need something to replace that single minded devotion to the Order.  I agree with Gala that love alone wouldn't be enough, nor should it be.  I think though, depending on the conflict in the DA3, that conflict and the issues presented in that, might be.

Modifié par Avilia, 01 septembre 2011 - 08:51 .

[Avilia]

@Gala - I'm not a stuffed toy person but I'd make an exception for pony Cullen!

I made a pony Nate as well but he didn't turn out as well - I think the tattoo on the rump makes the difference ;-)

[Bekkael]

Avilia wrote...

 Sorry I'm late to this discussion but after giving it some thought, I'm going to throw my opinion out there.

I don't think that Cullen's crush on the young female mage warden is such a defining element of his personality.  When you talk to him in the cage he seems to have dealt with it and is ready to put it away.  Uldred using his feelings to torment him seems to have the effect of making him face it and think about, perhaps in a way he wouldn't have if everything had gone along normally.

It seems to me that his mentioning 'knowing an Amell' in a rather sentimental way is the same thing anyone might do.  He's older and looking back through rose coloured glasses (as you do) at someone he remembers liking, who also saved his life.

From a pure gameplay/story point of view I don't think anything more than a vague mention would be necessary (as was done in DA2) if only because a large number of people don't play female mages in Origins.

Now I've got myself in trouble :innocent:

I'll get myself into trouble right along with you. I think the PC mage in the tower was a crush/blip on Cullen's screen. He's terribly young and inexperienced and immature in DA:O. I don't see him coming into his own as a mature MAN until DA2, when pain and time had molded and changed him. That's why I think romance in the DA2 Kirkwall years works for him. I guess I never really cottoned onto the Cullen/PC mage pairing like so many others, (though I played it and loved it!) because it seems like an impossible prospect with the PC being the warden and all. I mean how would they ever really get together in light of DA2? *shrug*

That's my opinion and I know others don't share it, but that's my reasoning behind it. It just seems Cullen/Hawke were ripe for a romance that didn't happen but easily could have. Especially if it were a warrior or rogue Hawke; technically there's no reason they couldn't be together since there's no mage conflict between them. It would be like Aveline and Ser Wesley.

[miraclemight]

I think a couple of betrayals done by other Templars and the Chantry should be enough to change Cullen's mind. He's very uncertain right now, and he doesn't even know about Dorothea's plan for an Exalted March. To punish a whole town for the crimes caused by the tyranny of a mad woman... That's just simply insane

[Sialater]

To weigh in the Cullen/Surana crush thing... I used him in The Rescue since I needed a sword and board character and he fit the bill. Through the progress of the fic, he does come to see my Surana as more than just the little mage in the tower, though it takes the duration of their journey together. But, yes, by the end of DA2, I imagine he's moved on even from my Moira. That is quite a duration of time, after all.

[silentstephi]

That doesn't leave off the prospect of wee bits of angst if, by some miracle or reasoning, he is in DA3 as a companion, romance-able, and then Mage Warden shows up for her cameo!

Ahhhhhhhhhh that'd be epic. (I'm still in camp of it his past, no worries, but OMG the potential DRAMAZ. X3)