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[LolaLei]

[Jinx]

Nice Pics Lola

[littlenikki]

Ooh I love your photo manips Lola! The aged feel of that last one is especially lovely

[LolaLei]

Thanks guys, it was quiet in here again so I decided to pretty the place up a bit.

[meanieweenie]

Ah, Lola... he looks so sad in that last one. 'How could you betray me, my love?". *removes heart and steps on it*

[LolaLei]

I've been giving some thought to where our DA3 protagonist might originate from and how he/she will end up in a situation that leads him/her to become "the one" who suceeds in doing/stopping whatever DA3 is about.

Presumably, regardless of his/her background he/she will be from one place in Thedas (for example Ferelden) since the protagonist will be voiced again. I've also been thinking about companions and how we always get at least one non-temporary companion at the very beginning of the game (in DA:O it was Alistair, in DA2 it was Aveline and Carver/Bethany) and at least one from each game is always a warrior, designed to be a tank and cover your back (specifically if your character is a rogue or mage.) DA2 began right at the crisis point of Origins- the battle of Ostagar. So for continuity, it's logical to consider that there's a chance our DA3 protagonist might be somehow involved/tied to the crisis point of DA2- the destruction of the Chantry/Meredith OR the situation surrounding Asunder with the Mage/Templar uprising. Our protagonist may be from Kirkwall/Orlais or perhaps just happened to be in the general/surrounding area when sh!t hits the fan and his/her fate is sealed.

This got me thinking- Cullen is plot relevant (to varying degrees) in both the above scenarios since he aided Hawke in defeating Meredith, and is likely to have some involvement in the Templar rebellion regardless of whether he's been promoted to a Knight Commander after the DA2 events, or sided with the Divine instead... or even ditched the Order and became a wandering horse washer.  Sooooo, if your character is in or around the Kirkwall/Orlais area during said events (depending on the situation), then it would make sense that that's where Cullen enters the picture. Let's not forget that there's absolutely no way to kill him in DA2 since he'll always turn against Meredith regardless of who you sided with, plus he fits the whole warrior tank formular that BioWare have been running with so far. 

Of course, my theory doesn't completely hold up, since it's possible that DA3 could open with our protagonist taking control of the Inquisition or whatever the main plot situation is straight off the bat, without any explaination or playable prologue leading up to said events, in which case any warrior tank character (temporary or permanent) could fill that position. There's also the big possibility that Cassandra could also fill that role, since she's also a warrior with a higher chance of companion status than Cullen (what with the companion armor art of her and DotS.) Perhaps our new protagonist will be that "original plan" Cassandra mentions to Leliana? Of course, there's a strong chance that the game could start several years after the events of DA2 and/or Asunder, and may not even start out in/near Kirkwall or Orlais, which would completely blow my theory out of the water lol. 

Regardless, I could totally see a situation in which we run into Cullen fleeing/leaving Kirkwall/Orlais for varying reasons, subsequently leading him to join our party as a companion (hopefully permanently and as a love interest.)

Modifié par LolaLei, 02 novembre 2012 - 02:45 .

[CuriousArtemis]

I think you've provided some solid evidence for Cullen being our first companion we pick up. I haven't read Asunder and probably most DA fans haven't, so I doubt it will affect DA3 much... although DA3's plot may follow in a similar vein (just remember that Asunder is not canon). But the point of all that is, I'm not clear on the whole templar versus Divine thing.

Is it fair to say that Cullen could be on one side and Cassandra on the other? I find it troubling that both are warriors. Could we be forced into a situation where we must choose one path over another (templar or seeker) and thus Cullen over Cassandra, or vice versa?

[Jinx]

I agree with you I cant really see him coming in,in many other ways.I also think that's a really good theory,and your dead on about the tank I've really never thought of that before.

[LolaLei]

motomotogirl wrote...

I think you've provided some solid evidence for Cullen being our first companion we pick up. I haven't read Asunder and probably most DA fans haven't, so I doubt it will affect DA3 much... although DA3's plot may follow in a similar vein (just remember that Asunder is not canon). But the point of all that is, I'm not clear on the whole templar versus Divine thing.

Is it fair to say that Cullen could be on one side and Cassandra on the other? I find it troubling that both are warriors. Could we be forced into a situation where we must choose one path over another (templar or seeker) and thus Cullen over Cassandra, or vice versa?

Do you plan to read Asunder at all? (I don't wanna spoil it for you, if you are.)

The fact that they are both warriors troubles me too, I know we generally have more than one but I'm still concerned that Cassandra would be the choice companion for DA3 over Cullen.

As for whether or not he's with the rebel Templars... I really can't see it. Especially not after reading Asunder and seeing David Gaider mention in one or two interviews that Cullen is one of the good guys and "a voice of reason". Of course, BioWare like to surprise us, so anything could happen to the poor boy LOL!

[LolaLei]

cacey lee wrote...

I agree with you I cant really see him coming in,in many other ways.I also think that's a really good theory,and your dead on about the tank I've really never thought of that before.

 

The tank thing only occured to me today after someone pointed it out on Tumblr. Even Dragon Age: Awakening had Mhairi as a warrior tank, shortly after we find Oghren very early on into the game who's also a warrior tank and that's when Mhairi dies during the joining. We always start out with at least one.

[SamaraDraven]

cacey lee wrote...

I agree with you I cant really see him coming in,in many other ways.I also think that's a really good theory,and your dead on about the tank I've really never thought of that before.

I think it's possible to have cullen come into the game a bit later and in other ways, as long as it has something to do with the mage/Templar rebellion thing and the Inquisition. I don't expect we'd find him as a sell-sword. I have the theory that if we're supposed to be an "Inquisitor", we might be tasked with looking for him to help discover more of what happened or as a bounty that some head honcho in Orlais made about him. When we come across him, we could either treat him like Cass treated Varric or as the criminal his bounty says he is, or as a potential friend who says he can help - like Jowan does in DAO. This is when you'd recruit him.

Of course, as Bioware likes to keep things balanced, if Cullen is an enemy of any sort - no matter how WE feel about him - the option to murder-knife him might be offered. We wouldn't go there but plenty of other players would. While I'd hope his chances for reappearing in later games would remain good, since we all think that's not likely after DA3; my guess is that if Cullen is a recruitable companion, he'll also be killable and thus, not central to the story. He'd be a nice-to-have-around kind of bloke and will impart more info if you don't execute him and he'll have a place in the story as a personal quest but he won't be a main component like Anders, for instance. Just my two cents.

[LolaLei]

SamaraDraven wrote...

cacey lee wrote...

I agree with you I cant really see him coming in,in many other ways.I also think that's a really good theory,and your dead on about the tank I've really never thought of that before.

I think it's possible to have cullen come into the game a bit later and in other ways, as long as it has something to do with the mage/Templar rebellion thing and the Inquisition. I don't expect we'd find him as a sell-sword. I have the theory that if we're supposed to be an "Inquisitor", we might be tasked with looking for him to help discover more of what happened or as a bounty that some head honcho in Orlais made about him. When we come across him, we could either treat him like Cass treated Varric or as the criminal his bounty says he is, or as a potential friend who says he can help - like Jowan does in DAO. This is when you'd recruit him.

Of course, as Bioware likes to keep things balanced, if Cullen is an enemy of any sort - no matter how WE feel about him - the option to murder-knife him might be offered. We wouldn't go there but plenty of other players would. While I'd hope his chances for reappearing in later games would remain good, since we all think that's not likely after DA3; my guess is that if Cullen is a recruitable companion, he'll also be killable and thus, not central to the story. He'd be a nice-to-have-around kind of bloke and will impart more info if you don't execute him and he'll have a place in the story as a personal quest but he won't be a main component like Anders, for instance. Just my two cents.

Yeah, that's another possibility too, that we'd have to go looking for him for answers and then recruit him from there. I'd dare say that he'd be one of the first companions we'd pick up (if not the first).

Although, even if you could kill him as a companion I think he could still be important to the plot, but I guess it depends when the opportunity would arise to bump him off. I mean, you could kill Alistair and Anders, but not until right at the end lol.

[SamaraDraven]

LolaLei wrote...

SamaraDraven wrote...

cacey lee wrote...

I agree with you I cant really see him coming in,in many other ways.I also think that's a really good theory,and your dead on about the tank I've really never thought of that before.

I think it's possible to have cullen come into the game a bit later and in other ways, as long as it has something to do with the mage/Templar rebellion thing and the Inquisition. I don't expect we'd find him as a sell-sword. I have the theory that if we're supposed to be an "Inquisitor", we might be tasked with looking for him to help discover more of what happened or as a bounty that some head honcho in Orlais made about him. When we come across him, we could either treat him like Cass treated Varric or as the criminal his bounty says he is, or as a potential friend who says he can help - like Jowan does in DAO. This is when you'd recruit him.

Of course, as Bioware likes to keep things balanced, if Cullen is an enemy of any sort - no matter how WE feel about him - the option to murder-knife him might be offered. We wouldn't go there but plenty of other players would. While I'd hope his chances for reappearing in later games would remain good, since we all think that's not likely after DA3; my guess is that if Cullen is a recruitable companion, he'll also be killable and thus, not central to the story. He'd be a nice-to-have-around kind of bloke and will impart more info if you don't execute him and he'll have a place in the story as a personal quest but he won't be a main component like Anders, for instance. Just my two cents.

Yeah, that's another possibility too, that we'd have to go looking for him for answers and then recruit him from there. I'd dare say that he'd be one of the first companions we'd pick up (if not the first).

Although, even if you could kill him as a companion I think he could still be important to the plot, but I guess it depends when the opportunity would arise to bump him off. I mean, you could kill Alistair and Anders, but not until right at the end lol.

Very true. I guess if I expected Cullen to be less than central to the plot, I'd think he'd be killable from the get-go like Jowan. Leaving it to the end makes another Big Dramatic Choice like the DR versus US thing. I'm optimostic he'll be in the game in some way. I'm less optimistic about if he'll be a companion and/or romanceable and I'm downright pessimistic about his importance to the story, given Cassandra's armor artwork and movie. I know he could be very important to the story, that he has the potential and I don't see how they can pass that up; but given what we've seen...? I'm feeling a little jaded about how big Cullen's role will be. I hope not - I mean I don't wanna be a downer and I do know I still have reason to hope... I just don't know why they would develop another Andrastian tank kind of character so much if they weren't going to use that one when they already had one that was similar, unless they weren't planning to use the one they had... Guess I'm just feeling rather down. Giving up my Assassin's Creed 3 reservation was fine by me until the day it released and I started seeing all the posts and now I'm a little green-horned about it... hehehe

Modifié par SamaraDraven, 02 novembre 2012 - 03:55 .

[LolaLei]

What would you guys prefer: to have Cullen become a party member from the prologue of the game like Aveline? Early on in the game (after the prologue) once the game properly begins, like Alistair? Or later in the game like Zevran, Isabela and Fenris?

I'm in two minds. On the one hand I want Cullen as early as possible, in order to get as much air time as possible with him and generally interact with him as a companion/LI like I've been desperate to do for years. On the other hand, I kinda like the idea of stumbling upon him out of the blue a bit later in the game during some epic event and recruiting him from there.

[SamaraDraven]

I'd like to run into him near the beginning but not at the beginning. Like when Varric shows, I'd like to run into him then. =D

[LolaLei]

Samara: I feel the same way. Like Cassandra pretty much eclipses Cullen in the importance stakes. I mean, if he is a companion then I think he'll still be important to the Mage/Templar part of the story, but I don't think he will be AS important as Cassandra, especially given the fact that all the super plot heavy companions have been men so far. Don't get me wrong, I can see already that Cass is equally important regarding the rebellion, but she wasn't there to experience it first hand, like Cullen was.

I'm not gonna beat around the bush, if Cullen isn't a companion/LI in DA3 then I'm gonna feel gutted and annoyed because it'll be so much untapped potential gone to waste (especially given the current Mage/Templar rebellion), but at the same time I recognise that the DA team may not agree with us, more so after Gaider's comment about feeling perplexed at how we've taken a minor character with minimal screen time and turned him into this big thing based on fan fic and theories alone lol.

Modifié par LolaLei, 02 novembre 2012 - 04:08 .

[LolaLei]

Something I'm curious about though, is that companion armor concept art from PAX. Doesn't it strike you as odd, that they used Cassandra as an "example"? I mean, if they're planning to make her a companion in DA3, then haven't they kinda ruined the surprise super early, by showing us pictures of a Seeker that's blatantly her.This makes me wonder if maybe she won't be a companion at all and they done it to throw us off/make us think that she and the random Warden guy will be party members.

Perhaps there's a chance that she will be an important npc that we work closely with, taking orders and quests from her instead. Kinda like Meredith, Orsino and Cullen's roles in DA2, but on a larger scale.

[SamaraDraven]

To be perfectly honest I think DG doesn't always remember what he says about topic from one instance to the next unless it's a big important thing that is connected to him. First he says Cullen was meant to be creepy, then he says he's the voice of reason, then he says it's cool how we have taken to him so much and that even some writers like him too... and then he says our appreciation perplexes him? Methinks he's just feeling stressed and says whatever he's feeling at the moment. Since he's been feeling particularly testy about fans "making demands" of the devs and we kind of made ourselves famous around the water cooler for our fervor, we're a ready example of "demanding fans" even though we don't make demanding threads or polls or petitions or send in an army of letters (as far as I know). He can't blame us... but with his annoyance of the "demanding fans" our appreciation for Cullen isn't so cute or cool at the moment and when it's brought up, he has no patience for it. Of course the job he does probably has loads of other stresses too now that DA3 is official, what with development ramping up AND now having to do the publicity dance with interviews and statements and on the boards... I'd bet my first paycheck that the joy in his job is being leeched away right now and everything that takes him from what he loves is just another annoyance that he can't be bothered to think about.

Is it fair? No. Do I get it? Yes. Ergo... I take his comments with a pinch of salt and try not to stress it too much. The only other explanation I have isn't pretty... Essentially, maybe they wanted to give us Cullen and can't but they can't say it outright yet but the continued fangirling of him is both guilt-inducing and annoying since they feel bad about it and the repetition of this gets wearing after a while. We're not trying to do it on purpose but it is what it is. In this way, I see attempts at minimizing why we like him as a subversive effort to brace us for the bad news. it's just... usually Gaider doesn't do such things so then I go back to option one! haha!

My brain is a round robin - hear the hamster wheels going? ;D

Modifié par SamaraDraven, 02 novembre 2012 - 04:28 .

[SamaraDraven]

LolaLei wrote...

Something I'm curious about though, is that companion armor concept art from PAX. Doesn't it strike you as odd, that they used Cassandra as an "example"? I mean, if they're planning to make her a companion in DA3, then haven't they kinda ruined the surprise super early, by showing us pictures of a Seeker that's blatantly her.This makes me wonder if maybe she won't be a companion at all and they done it to throw us off/make us think that she and the random Warden guy will be party members.

Perhaps there's a chance that she will be an important npc that we work closely with, taking orders and quests from her instead. Kinda like Meredith, Orsino and Cullen's roles in DA2, but on a larger scale.

I didn't think of that! That's a good point. Artwork can be anyone - companion, npc, or the protagonist him/herself!

[LolaLei]

Samara: I agree. I guess, even if he does find it cute that we've taken to Cullen, it is quite a rare occurrence that a minor NPC would get so much love and attention, to the point of annoyance lol. Especially with all the fan fic and in depth discussions we have about his personality, which we've seen very little of if you strip away all our head canons lol.

As for his job currently, I can only imagine the kind of stress he and the other devs are under. The BSN don't help, it's amazing they even bothers to visit at all, especially when 9 times out of 10 they gets insulted by forum users or attacked.

[SamaraDraven]

Isabela wasn't onscreen much - less than Cullen actually - and yet she was made a companion so I don't think it's all that unusual... Still it's sobering to realize how... blank Cullen is without our coloring of him... o.0

It's a shame the devs have to put up with so much from fans. At first, it's all cool, "Like OMG! A dev is in here!" but somewhere along the way, some people got it into their heads that they were too cool for dev worship and began dissing them instead. The caveat to that is they forgot to remember how human the devs are. Sure they may say it as part of their "the devs aren't perfect or gods" rhetoric but they also treat them as if they are just that because they hurl their vitriol at the devs and when the devs get aggravated, the fans bark about professionalism and how they should be better. Technically yes, that's true... but there's only so much abuse anyone can take before they snap. So the ones who get on the devs backsides like they do first use "they're not gods" to make a point and then hold it up as a standard all devs should be at. I'm just like "Dude! You expect these guys to act better than most human beings in this situation would act after you just got done nattering about how not-godlike they are? You're too cool to treat a dev with respect but you'll demand it when they get annoyed with you? Which is it?" So yeah, I can't stand the people who think they know better than the devs. It's one thing to have an opinion or catch a dev having an off day and being wrong about something but telling them you know better than they do and insulting their work? Insisting your ideas are better? Not cool.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Modifié par SamaraDraven, 02 novembre 2012 - 05:59 .

[meanieweenie]

SamaraDraven wrote...

This is why we can't have nice things.

 I had a proper response to the Samara / Lola convo but started laughing when I saw this and now I can't remember what I was going to say. lol

Let's see... I don't see a problem with both Cullen and Cassandra in our party as warriors. Isn't there usually a two tank option? (Sten / Alistair & Aveline / Fenris) One of them would just need to be a two hander, right? Or am I missing the point of what you were trying to say? I just rolled out of bed so that may be the case.

Also, I'd like to run into Cullen early on but not immediately - like Varric's timing. That being said, I'm not really picky about it. I'll just be happy to have him as a companion.

[R2s Muse]

Hey guys. I just got my power back last night, so I'm doing the happy dance of joy...
220x200http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l520/eventually1/Snoopy-Happy-Dance.jpg[/img]

...back to Cullen, Lola, I think those are all tantalizing trends you've identified with the prologues of the games so far. I could see Cullen showing up that early if the action picks up early enough to dovetail with the ending of DA2. Of course, that could mean he ends up being a temp companion only, or not. Who knows. I continued to be baffled by whether the new game will pick up after Act 3 or after the end of DA2, i.e. after Varric's interrogation, which is a significant span of time.

On Asunder, the specifics of the book aren't canon necessarily, but the big plot point is one that was already stated in DA2, that the templars have split from the Chantry. So I think there are certain important aspects of Asunder that will inevitably show up in the next game, but probably just told to us via prologue card or character exposition.

Cass vs. Cullen... yeah, I have no idea if one precludes the other or not. It does seem like showing their cards a bit early to use a very Cassandra-like character in the armor customization art. But then, would anyone be surprised to find that Cass is in the next game...? So maybe not such a big spoiler...

On whether Cullen will be in game. I honestly have no idea, but I've been pretty skeptical from the start. He makes sense as a companion, sure, but we have no idea what the story will be... and I think Samara makes some pretty good points about the various ways that fan backlash could figure in positively and negatively to his inclusion in the game. Realistically, I think he'll probably be an NPC again. So I suppose my real best case scenario is that he's a temp companion at the beginning, tells us the "story so far," and then splits and if we see him again, he's an NPC.

I wonder how much we'll laugh when we browse through these discussions a year from now... LOL:O

Modifié par R2s Muse, 02 novembre 2012 - 12:38 .

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...

I wonder how much we'll laugh when we browse through these discussions a year from now... LOL:O

Glad you've got your power back!

We'll probably laugh a great deal over it.

Actually, I'm equally skeptical about either Cassandra or Cullen becoming a companion, and equally optimistic. The arguments that could keep Cullen out of the party roster could also be used for Cassandra. Plus, she has considerable clout in Thedas. Even if she were only the left pinky of the Divine, that's still a pretty high-ranking character to join a low-level party as anything other than a temporary companion. Kind of like Irving being available as a full-time companion instead of Wynne. It was the same reason I was skeptical about Anders joining the DA2 team. Of course, his merger with Justice provided a perfect explanation about why he was once a 30th level mage but he joins at 6th level (having to relearn his skills as a result of the merger), but Cassandra doesn't seem the type to invite a Fade spirit to share her body.

Ultimately, if they want it to happen, they will find a way to make it work. I'm not about to abandon hope this early. They probalby won't start releasing companion info until about three months out from release. I'm hoping that they give it before the pre-order deadline.

[LolaLei]

That's s good point. I wonder what level Cullen would be if he joined the party? I mean, he's pretty experienced now over the course of two games. Perhaps him leaving the order for some reason would reset him in some way? Not that it would make much sense, but you never know.