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The Official Knight-Captain Cullen Discussion thread 2.0.


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#26501
berelinde

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R2s Muse wrote...

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Also, it would be nice for more of the banter to actually include you! I think we did this once upon a time... but suggestions for random Cullen banter around town??

From what I understand, they're working on a way to let the protagonist participate in banter while allowing player agency. The player will be able to make their PC chime in if she wants. I'm not sure how exactly they'll implement this. Maybe they'll have some choices appear at the bottom of the screen as voluntary, ignorable interrupts.

I like that they're trying to do this... but I'm kind of torn on this interrupt-type solution. Honestly, the ME interrupts make me anxious. One thing I appreciate about DA is that I can pause whenever I need to and don't need actual reflexes to do anything. I know they're trying to increase player agency, and that may be important to some, but I would have been fine with passive participation as well. But... we'll see how they implement it!

Wait, you can pause dialogue? I thought you played on a PC. Or do you mean that you just wait until it's your turn to talk? Or that you're OK with protagonist autodialogue in banters? They've given pausable dialogue as a "stretch goal" for DA3, but as far as I know, the feature has not existed on either of the previous titles unless you're on a console. I remember them saying that it would be nice, but it's not likely to be implemented.

So, since we aren't likely to have pausable dialogue anyway, it really won't matter if there's a completely skippable PC interjection. "Interjection" is probably a better word than "interrupt," since I don't imagine the effect on the ongoing dialogue will be too profound.

#26502
LolaLei

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R2: Yeah, accidentally triggering a conversation after a battle/whatever did get frustrating, but I still preferred that to being stuck talking to companions in the same room(s) for 10 years lol.

I think the trick is to try and get the balance right this time around, to limit the time spanning between conversations but still make interaction with them feel natural and flow with the story. So, maybe something like this:

1) Only have fully fledged investigative conversations with our companions/LI between quests in certain "rest" areas (like the castle, a campsite, a tavern, a stop gap between a big mission etc).

2)  Whilst actively doing a quest/during the time between quests (where you run around town/wherever buying stuff etc) banter could occur as usual (to which we can occasionally join in with, if the DA team are able to implement it).

3) Perhaps when you visit certain (companion relevant) areas a cutscene would trigger, during which, the said companion will talk to you about it (like in DA2 when Fenris visits the Gallows for the first time).

4) Certain landmarks (like the Grand Cathedral etc) will trigger banter between the companions and the protagonist as the camera does a sweeping panoramic view of said landmark (kinda like in the MotA dlc, when they have a discussion about the lake whilst hunting Wyvens).




To give an example of number 3, I'll use Cullen to describe the scene, with the protagonist picking dialogue options for optimal romance. This cutscene would only trigger if you take him to Kinloch Hold, or perhaps could be his companion quest:

The protagonist 'n' co approach Kinloch Hold's docks, the water looks choppy, the sky is overcast and the whole area has a depressing feel to it (to reflect Cullen's mood and add to the atmosphere of the conversation about to play out), Cullen can be seen looking clearly pained and nervous.

*Que humourous interaction between the protagonist and Carroll, who is still stuck watching the docks, for whatever reason. Carroll recognises Cullen and they have stern/awkward/humorous words*

*Cutscene of the boat ride over, Cullen can be seen with a furrowed brow, looking down at the floor we can see he's suffering in silence. The other companions glance over at him looking concerned, then look at the protagonist as if ask "what's wrong with him", the protagonist gives a knowing nod back, to suggest that he/she is aware that Cullen is clearly upset*

Outside of the tower doors a conversation cutscene triggers with Cullen:

*The companions go on ahead inside, to give the protagonist a chance to speak with Cullen*

Protagonist: "Are you sure you want to do this?"

Cullen: "I... It's been a long time since I returned here. This was my home, but now it just feels like a terrible nightmare. Nothing good here remains"

Protagonist: "This was were it happened, wasn't it? Your torture at the hands of blood mages?"

Cullen: *Voice slightly cracking as he fights the memories flooding back* "Yes. I'll never forget the horrors inflicted upon me in that tower, the blood of my brothers... so much blood, twisted flesh..." 

*Perhaps a mini flashback could occur of him witnessing his Templar brothers being slaughtered, mages twisting into abominations, etc*

*Cullen begins to panic, glancing around wildly*

Protagonist: (romantic option) *Steps foward, so he/she is directly infront of Cullen and puts his/her hands on both his shoulders* "Cullen... listen to me, i'm here for you." *Said very gently*

*Cullen calms himself, slumping his shoulders, still with a pained defeated look on his face*

Protagonist: "No matter what happens, I'll be in there with you. I won't let anyone or anything hurt you."

Cullen: *Smiles weakly and brings the protagonists hands down from his shoulders, cupping them in his own* "Your kindness and encouragement continue to humble me. You... uh, your friendship means a great deal to me."

*After a brief moment of silence, just looking into each others eyes, Cullen slowly releases the protagonists hands. realising he's been holding them too long. His facial expression shows that he's feeling a range of different emotions due to the situation and his feelings for the protagonist (especially if he/she is a mage)*

Cullen: *Takes a deep breath* "Ok... let's get this over and done with. It's time I faced my fears and finally put them to rest."

*Cutscene end*

Once inside the tower we do whatever it is, we came there to do in there. As we visit different parts of the tower Cullen would give you banter style auto dialogue descriptions of things that would happen there. The futher up the tower you go, the more his dialogue would change from light/normal information about his time there, to more dark/concerning as he begins to tell you exactly how the attack on the tower that lead to his torture occured (think along the lines of Jack's loyalty mission in ME2, where she would tell you about her time and torture in that biotics facility as a child). Finally you get to the area where his cage was situated. As you look around the area/harrowing chamber and click on certain items, mini flashback cutscenes will trigger as Cullen goes into proper detail of what he actually saw from he point of view. Eventually he tells you that he needs some time alone and asks you to head back to base/whereever without him. Later back at the castle/camp/base he'll return and you'll have another proper fully investigative conversation about the whole thing and find out how he feels nows he's laid some old ghosts to rest etc.


Aaaaand there's my ideas lol.

Modifié par LolaLei, 13 novembre 2012 - 08:06 .


#26503
meanieweenie

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Lovely scene, Lola. And I'm 100% behind you with those ideas. Please, dear Maker... let there be variety in conversations and locations! To have a meaningful interaction with someone in a place other than their home in DA2 would've been welcomed. Hell, even some kind of non-work related scene in the dirty ass Hanged Man tavern having drink with your buddies, just talking nonsense. I also think they may have missed an opportunity in DA:O for chit chat around the fire as a group. Scripted group banter (where you still get to chime in with your choice of dialog for the PC) could make me feel more bonded with companions.

#26504
LolaLei

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meanieweenie wrote...

Lovely scene, Lola. And I'm 100% behind you with those ideas. Please, dear Maker... let there be variety in conversations and locations! To have a meaningful interaction with someone in a place other than their home in DA2 would've been welcomed. Hell, even some kind of non-work related scene in the dirty ass Hanged Man tavern having drink with your buddies, just talking nonsense. I also think they may have missed an opportunity in DA:O for chit chat around the fire as a group. Scripted group banter (where you still get to chime in with your choice of dialog for the PC) could make me feel more bonded with companions.


I would've loved group conversation scenes in DA:O and DA2. How cool would it have been in DA2 if all the companions could sit around a table in the Hanged Man discussing their next plan of action/just hang out, whilst Isabela flirted with anything that moved, Varric told stories etc, and maybe play cards games/get drunk/have a bar fight (all optional of course). If they brought that into DA3, it would certainly add an extra layer of comradery to the game. I think it would also help me bond with the companions more too, since I really like seeing them all interacting with each other.

Modifié par LolaLei, 13 novembre 2012 - 07:35 .


#26505
R2s Muse

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berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Also, it would be nice for more of the banter to actually include you! I think we did this once upon a time... but suggestions for random Cullen banter around town??

From what I understand, they're working on a way to let the protagonist participate in banter while allowing player agency. The player will be able to make their PC chime in if she wants. I'm not sure how exactly they'll implement this. Maybe they'll have some choices appear at the bottom of the screen as voluntary, ignorable interrupts.

I like that they're trying to do this... but I'm kind of torn on this interrupt-type solution. Honestly, the ME interrupts make me anxious. One thing I appreciate about DA is that I can pause whenever I need to and don't need actual reflexes to do anything. I know they're trying to increase player agency, and that may be important to some, but I would have been fine with passive participation as well. But... we'll see how they implement it!

Wait, you can pause dialogue? I thought you played on a PC. Or do you mean that you just wait until it's your turn to talk? Or that you're OK with protagonist autodialogue in banters? They've given pausable dialogue as a "stretch goal" for DA3, but as far as I know, the feature has not existed on either of the previous titles unless you're on a console. I remember them saying that it would be nice, but it's not likely to be implemented.

So, since we aren't likely to have pausable dialogue anyway, it really won't matter if there's a completely skippable PC interjection. "Interjection" is probably a better word than "interrupt," since I don't imagine the effect on the ongoing dialogue will be too profound.

My point isn't that you can pause dialogue, but that there's nothing you have to do that's timed. You just sit there. If you only have a small window within which to interject/interrupt, then I get stressed out.

#26506
LolaLei

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R2s Muse wrote...

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Also, it would be nice for more of the banter to actually include you! I think we did this once upon a time... but suggestions for random Cullen banter around town??

From what I understand, they're working on a way to let the protagonist participate in banter while allowing player agency. The player will be able to make their PC chime in if she wants. I'm not sure how exactly they'll implement this. Maybe they'll have some choices appear at the bottom of the screen as voluntary, ignorable interrupts.

I like that they're trying to do this... but I'm kind of torn on this interrupt-type solution. Honestly, the ME interrupts make me anxious. One thing I appreciate about DA is that I can pause whenever I need to and don't need actual reflexes to do anything. I know they're trying to increase player agency, and that may be important to some, but I would have been fine with passive participation as well. But... we'll see how they implement it!

Wait, you can pause dialogue? I thought you played on a PC. Or do you mean that you just wait until it's your turn to talk? Or that you're OK with protagonist autodialogue in banters? They've given pausable dialogue as a "stretch goal" for DA3, but as far as I know, the feature has not existed on either of the previous titles unless you're on a console. I remember them saying that it would be nice, but it's not likely to be implemented.

So, since we aren't likely to have pausable dialogue anyway, it really won't matter if there's a completely skippable PC interjection. "Interjection" is probably a better word than "interrupt," since I don't imagine the effect on the ongoing dialogue will be too profound.

My point isn't that you can pause dialogue, but that there's nothing you have to do that's timed. You just sit there. If you only have a small window within which to interject/interrupt, then I get stressed out.


Presumably it would need to be more than an interupt, in order to reply with something that's in character to your protagonist, beyond the ME style of renegade or paragon. I'm not entirely sure how they'd go about implementing such a thing, unless the only time we get to chime into companion banter, is at set points and the rest of the time would just be regular companion banter. I quite liked how it was done in DA2 actually, Hawke's response would be different depending on what tone you used the most. I understand that a lot of people didn't like it though, which is understandable.

#26507
R2s Muse

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Love it, Lola! I do hope that they use a variety of interaction modes like that. I really liked the vista point dialogues of MOTA and Legacy, so I agree that those would be a nice way to have location specific conversations. But then there are others you have to go back to base for later. I suppose DA2 had a little of that, like during the Hadriana quest you'd get cut scenes to talk with Fenris as you went.

The one thing I want them to avoid is having landmark conversation spots that only trigger for a certain companion so I'm left hanging if I have no idea who that companion is supposed to be (*grumble* Awakenings*grumble*grumble). But in your example, I suppose the stop before we go in to the Tower conversation would only happen if Cullen is your party, right? Cool!

#26508
LolaLei

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R2s Muse wrote...

Love it, Lola! I do hope that they use a variety of interaction modes like that. I really liked the vista point dialogues of MOTA and Legacy, so I agree that those would be a nice way to have location specific conversations. But then there are others you have to go back to base for later. I suppose DA2 had a little of that, like during the Hadriana quest you'd get cut scenes to talk with Fenris as you went.

The one thing I want them to avoid is having landmark conversation spots that only trigger for a certain companion so I'm left hanging if I have no idea who that companion is supposed to be (*grumble* Awakenings*grumble*grumble). But in your example, I suppose the stop before we go in to the Tower conversation would only happen if Cullen is your party, right? Cool!


Yeah the conversation would only trigger if Cullen's in you party. Or it could be a completely separate companion quest.

But anyway, that was just an example of how areas of interest/relevance to a specific companion could trigger a cutscene and make it feel like we're still getting a fair amount of interaction with the companions, even though we can't talk to them anywhere we want, like we could in DA:O

#26509
R2s Muse

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LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

 My point isn't that you can pause dialogue, but that there's nothing you have to do that's timed. You just sit there. If you only have a small window within which to interject/interrupt, then I get stressed out.


Presumably it would need to be more than an interupt, in order to reply with something that's in character to your protagonist, beyond the ME style of renegade or paragon. I'm not entirely sure how they'd go about implementing such a thing, unless the only time we get to chime into companion banter, is at set points and the rest of the time would just be regular companion banter. I quite liked how it was done in DA2 actually, Hawke's response would be different depending on what tone you used the most. I understand that a lot of people didn't like it though, which is understandable.

This is what I mean by more passive interjections. Personally, I loved that Hawke also chimed in to the MotA? banters and that it had a tiny bit of player agency, since it reflected your Hawke's personality. I just imagine myself and my twitchy trigger finger freaking out that a banter starts and I can't find the button, so I miss my little window of opportunity to chime in. If the banter automatically paused and let you choose an option to reply, sorta like mini cutscene dialogues, I think I'd prefer it. But this isn't quite as organic, so folks might not like that either. Maybe they could just give gimpy gamers like me a settings option to autopause for banter interjections! LOL

Modifié par R2s Muse, 13 novembre 2012 - 07:53 .


#26510
littlenikki

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Holy wall of text...you guys have been busy! An inclusion of the PC into the banter, where we actually get to choose what our character is going to say would be neat. I'm not sure how exactly they are going to do that without turning it into a cutscene right in the middle of exploration, but an interesting concept to think about.

Modifié par littlenikki, 13 novembre 2012 - 07:56 .


#26511
berelinde

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There's another Cullen romance thread going in the DA3 forum. So far, it's been mostly civil. Probably best if we don't descend on it en masse, though. Nothing brings out the haters like enthusiastic support. Besides, I'm not entirely sure it isn't a troll thread.

Edit: Sorry, R2, I misunderstood the point you were making about interjections, and I understand why you would feel stressed about missing something important. Maybe if they implement a pause feature along with it, it won't be such a big deal. Or maybe they'll do something like pause the dialogue while you read the paraphrases and offer choices like this:

(diplo) I'm glad you two are talking again.
(sarcastic) Here we go again.
(aggressive) Knock it off, you two.
(star) (Ignore them)

Modifié par berelinde, 13 novembre 2012 - 08:10 .


#26512
LolaLei

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berelinde wrote...

There's another Cullen romance thread going in the DA3 forum. So far, it's been mostly civil. Probably best if we don't descend on it en masse, though. Nothing brings out the haters like enthusiastic support. Besides, I'm not entirely sure it isn't a troll thread.


Really? If it's legit, I dunno why they just didn't come here. That thread will only get shut down or trolled to pieces. I say we keep this as our main "base of operation" until the official companion/romance/npc thread gets opened. Then we can just open up a new one there or wait for evil Chris to open it if Cullen's a companion/LI.

#26513
meanieweenie

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Is that the one where they were getting into the whole "Cullen is / is not bi" crap again? I don't get it. Doesn't it all depend on your particular play through? I mean if you're playing a female and you're with Cullen, then he's straight. If you're a guy and with him then he's gay. I don't know why it's such a big flippin' deal.

Nevermind.... the last thing I want to do is start that discussion nightmare here. Tis a happy place, the Cullen thread! :)

#26514
LolaLei

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meanieweenie wrote...

Is that the one where they were getting into the whole "Cullen is / is not bi" crap again? I don't get it. Doesn't it all depend on your particular play through? I mean if you're playing a female and you're with Cullen, then he's straight. If you're a guy and with him then he's gay. I don't know why it's such a big flippin' deal.

Nevermind.... the last thing I want to do is start that discussion nightmare here. Tis a happy place, the Cullen thread! :)


Bah, it's just people getting up in arms for the sake of a debate lol. Although the OP said that Cullen wasn't gay because he only fancied the female mage Warden... of course, perhaps Cullen didn't find the male mage Warden attractive lol, or maybe he was in denial back then. Who knows. Either way, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that he could indeed be attracted to men.

#26515
berelinde

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meanieweenie wrote...

Is that the one where they were getting into the whole "Cullen is / is not bi" crap again? I don't get it. Doesn't it all depend on your particular play through? I mean if you're playing a female and you're with Cullen, then he's straight. If you're a guy and with him then he's gay. I don't know why it's such a big flippin' deal.

Nevermind.... the last thing I want to do is start that discussion nightmare here. Tis a happy place, the Cullen thread! :)

No worries, meanie! Even if we did talk about it, you know it would stay civil. In fact, I seem to remember that we have talked about it before and we soon reached the consensus that the romantic preferences of other peoples' games have no bearing on ours. We're big on "Live and let live" in these parts.

#26516
R2s Muse

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berelinde wrote...

There's another Cullen romance thread going in the DA3 forum. So far, it's been mostly civil. Probably best if we don't descend on it en masse, though. Nothing brings out the haters like enthusiastic support. Besides, I'm not entirely sure it isn't a troll thread.

Edit: Sorry, R2, I misunderstood the point you were making about interjections, and I understand why you would feel stressed about missing something important. Maybe if they implement a pause feature along with it, it won't be such a big deal. Or maybe they'll do something like pause the dialogue while you read the paraphrases and offer choices like this:

(diplo) I'm glad you two are talking again.
(sarcastic) Here we go again.
(aggressive) Knock it off, you two.
(star) (Ignore them)

No worries, berelinde. That is also my hope... that I won't suddenly have to be, you know, coordinated! LOL But, I have faith that we'll get a good solution. Clever Bioware devs are clever.

#26517
R2s Muse

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...will not go to DA3 forums... I will not go to DA3 forums... argh... must... go... look...

#26518
CuriousArtemis

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R2s Muse wrote...

...will not go to DA3 forums... I will not go to DA3 forums... argh... must... go... look...


:lol: I ventured into the DA3 forums again just to visit that thread and then post there for reasons. Then I found myself posting in the kossith sorry, "gray ones" thread. And then I ran away again as fast as I could and returned to the Cullen thread for happy happy joy joy Culleny goodness.

#26519
LolaLei

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motomotogirl wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

...will not go to DA3 forums... I will not go to DA3 forums... argh... must... go... look...


:lol: I ventured into the DA3 forums again just to visit that thread and then post there for reasons. Then I found myself posting in the kossith sorry, "gray ones" thread. And then I ran away again as fast as I could and returned to the Cullen thread for happy happy joy joy Culleny goodness.


LOL, I couldn't resist either. I had to go see the monster in action!

#26520
R2s Muse

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LolaLei wrote...

berelinde wrote...

There's another Cullen romance thread going in the DA3 forum. So far, it's been mostly civil. Probably best if we don't descend on it en masse, though. Nothing brings out the haters like enthusiastic support. Besides, I'm not entirely sure it isn't a troll thread.


Really? If it's legit, I dunno why they just didn't come here. That thread will only get shut down or trolled to pieces. I say we keep this as our main "base of operation" until the official companion/romance/npc thread gets opened. Then we can just open up a new one there or wait for evil Chris to open it if Cullen's a companion/LI.

Interesting... the OP did just stop by here the other day... Maybe he/she doesn't know what they're in for by posting in the DA3 forums... :unsure: Good luck with that...

I hear Monty Python's Holy Grail in my head: "Bring out your trolls! Bring out your trolls!"

#26521
CuriousArtemis

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Did they have the interrupts in ME2? Cause I see you played ME2 but don't see ME3 button. And I only played ME3. And when I first saw the paragon/renegade interrupts, my heart started beating rapidly in my chest, my hands started sweating, and I started blindly punching buttons. So I know how you feel xD

This is to R2 btw lol

#26522
R2s Muse

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motomotogirl wrote...

Did they have the interrupts in ME2? Cause I see you played ME2 but don't see ME3 button. And I only played ME3. And when I first saw the paragon/renegade interrupts, my heart started beating rapidly in my chest, my hands started sweating, and I started blindly punching buttons. So I know how you feel xD

This is to R2 btw lol


I've only played the very beginnings of ME and ME2... but the interrupts had the same effect on me! I still have no idea if I did them right... ! LOL

#26523
Battlebloodmage

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I love how open-minded the Cullen fans here. I hate when people say that Cullen doesn't seem gay as if being gay has to act a certain way. Love you guys. (Hugs)

#26524
meanieweenie

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Battlebloodmage wrote...

I love how open-minded the Cullen fans here. I hate when people say that Cullen doesn't seem gay as if being gay has to act a certain way. Love you guys. (Hugs)

Thanks! We're just a bunch of dirty hippies in here (aside from the few token PhD's - ha!). We'll be breaking out the guitars for a rousing KumBaYa session in a half hour by the food tent. Bring your own pipe. Image IPB

#26525
LolaLei

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Battlebloodmage wrote...

I love how open-minded the Cullen fans here. I hate when people say that Cullen doesn't seem gay as if being gay has to act a certain way. Love you guys. (Hugs)


It makes me laugh, it's like they're saying "well, he didn't fancy my male protagonist so he MUST be straight!" - as if gay guys are supposed to fancy ALL THE MEN, EVER in order to actually be gay lol. :lol: