89415 réponses à ce sujet

[CuriousArtemis]

I never played a FemAmell and the first time I saw Cullen was in DA2 so can't answer those questions xD

To that last question, I dunno, depends on how the writers handle him... I'm sure I'll love him just as much as I did in DA2, if not more, because now my PC can squeeze him

Do templars make noise when you squeeze them?

[upsettingshorts]

LolaLei wrote...

I find that hard to believe. Anyway, you can go now if you want.

After only one response?  I wasn't planning on sticking around and dominating discussion for 20 pages or anything, I posed my query and will read what people say.

In any case, feel free to watch my Tumblr, the link is in my profile.  If I go back on my word, everyone will know.  

I posted a series of honest questions, will consider the answers, and that's all there is to it.  Trolling without genuine DA3-related material is just boring and well... not sporting, and we don't have any of that.  So why bother?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 novembre 2012 - 12:58 .

[LolaLei]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

I find that hard to believe. Anyway, you can go now if you want.

After only one response?  I wasn't planning on sticking around and dominating discussion for 20 pages or anything, I posed my query and will read what people say.

In any case, feel free to watch my Tumblr, the link is in my profile.  If I go back on my word, everyone will know.  

I posted a series of honest questions, will consider the answers, and that's all there is to it.  Trolling without genuine DA3-related material is just... not sporting, and we don't have any of that.  So why bother?

I don't know why you bother to troll in the first place, essentially it's just bullying. Especially when the specific group of people you're targetting have done nothing wrong. Surely you have better things to do with your time than waste it conversing with those who you consider to be irritating or "troll worthy".

[R2s Muse]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

This will be the first and last time I ask this question without an ulterior motive, I legitimately want to know.  I'll save the trolling for launch:

Those of you who describe Cullen's flirtations with f!Amell in DA:O as "sweet" would you mind explaining how you reconcile this with:

• His position of authority with regards to life and death over f!Amell.
• His acknowledgement that had things gone differently, he would have executed f!Amell.
• His categorization of his interest in f!Amell as a shameful, childish, infatuation upon her return to the Tower during Broken Circle.

Furthermore, to those of you whose interest increased based on his appearance in DA:2:

• His assertion that mages - such as many present suppose to romance him with in DA:3 - "are not people."

Finally, if any or all of the above are acknowledged in your answer as problematic, is your interest in a Cullen/mage romance predicated on his recanting and/or converting to a different viewpoint?  What if he doesn't?  

If you'd like to interpret this post as being a hint as to why there is backlash towards Cullen romance fans on here and Tumblr, that would be perfectly reasonable, because it is.

Oh dear. I honestly don't have time for the essay this would require. First, Cullen was a kid in the first game. He had a crush. He likely ran away because it was wholly inappropriate for him to engage in any kind of real flirtation or relationship with her, because he was in a position of authority. It seems that was perhaps the first time they had actually spoken. Plus, that was his job, to kill abominations. If I had turned into one, I would expect that. Later, he has recriminations while he's under duress. I don't think anyone wants to shag him while he's ranting at you from his cage. He was traumatized and self-hating.

As far as DA2, IMO, he's still suffering from said torture, and he's doesn't say mages "aren't people" he says they can't be treated like people, "like you and me" in that they shouldn't be given freedom. Yes, he has some bigotry issues there, but by the end of the game, his tune has changed dramatically. He starts to think for himself and evolves into a moderate on the Circle. I see these as flaws  in an interesting individual.  If you want to paint him black for the rest of his life for that, you can. YMMV

[Sable Rhapsody]

littlenikki wrote...

I got kinda irritated with him in Origins, due to his blowing up at my mage about his torture. I mean, looking back at it now he's completely justified with his state of mind, but yea at the time I'm like "B*tch, don't make me pull out my murder knife!"

Same.  My mage was in a pretty cranky mood by the time she'd carved her way through four nightmares, a large swatch of the Fade, and about fifty bazillion abominations and demons.  She was in no mood to deal with Cullen.

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Furthermore, to those of you whose interest increased based on his appearance in DA:2:

• His assertion that mages - such as many present suppose to romance him with in DA:3 - "are not people."

Finally, if any or all of the above are acknowledged in your answer as problematic, is your interest in a Cullen/mage romance predicated on his recanting and/or converting to a different viewpoint?  What if he doesn't?

I can answer this portion, though not the Origins portion.

He does express some pretty extreme views on mages in DA2, especially given what he saw in Ferelden.  However, by Act 3, he starts to wonder how much of that is actually a templar's duty, and how much is Meredith's influence.  IMO it's less about what he says/claims to think and more about what he actually does--despite his experiences, he shows compassion to the mages who give themselves up to Hawke if s/he sides with the templars, and he sides against Meredith and her crazy, even if it's in favor of a pro-mage Hawke.

I think it's problematic, but no more problematic than, say, Fenris's issues with a mage Hawke, or romancing Anders with a pro-templar Hawke.  Besides, problems make for interesting RP regardless of whether the romance "works" or not.  No one ever said it had to be healthy or functional by RL standards to make an interesting yarn for a video game character.

[Sable Rhapsody]

motomotogirl wrote...

Do templars make noise when you squeeze them?

LOL.  The corrupt, the wicked, and the ticklish are not allowed into the ranks of Meredith's templars 

Now I wanna go around DA2 poking the templars and seeing if they make adorable squeaking noises.

[Shades_Of_Pale]

Would templars even feel it if you poked them? Considering all that armor..they may think a fly just slammed into it again because of its shininess.

Do you think the sun ever glares off their armor and blindes enemies?

[CuriousArtemis]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Do templars make noise when you squeeze them?

LOL.  The corrupt, the wicked, and the ticklish are not allowed into the ranks of Meredith's templars 

Now I wanna go around DA2 poking the templars and seeing if they make adorable squeaking noises.

I just for some reason pictured my PC (who is adorable in my head; IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE the fact that he will probably be another muscley fella like Hawke) hugging Cullen and just hearing this squeaking sound, like the sound dog toys make 

[CuriousArtemis]

Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

Would templars even feel it if you poked them? Considering all that armor..they may think a fly just slammed into it again because of its shininess.

Do you think the sun ever glares off their armor and blindes enemies?

A horde of mages rushes the small group of brave templars... suddenly the sun shines down upon their armor... mass confusion, mages crying and shielding their eyes and fireballs go off in every which direction.

[R2s Muse]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Do templars make noise when you squeeze them?

LOL.  The corrupt, the wicked, and the ticklish are not allowed into the ranks of Meredith's templars 

Now I wanna go around DA2 poking the templars and seeing if they make adorable squeaking noises.

This made my LOL

"Maker, aid your humble servant!  I will not have the ticklish in my ranks!!!"

[CuriousArtemis]

All new recruits must withstand, in addition to the all night vigil, a tickle attack from the knight-captain.

[Shades_Of_Pale]

Now I just thought of a bunch of young templar men in their smalls having tickle fights and giggling....gah!

[littlenikki]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

This will be the first and last time I ask this question without an ulterior motive, I legitimately want to know.  I'll save the trolling for launch:

Those of you who describe Cullen's flirtations with f!Amell in DA:O as "sweet" would you mind explaining how you reconcile this with:

• His position of authority with regards to life and death over f!Amell.
  
  
  
  
• His acknowledgement that had things gone differently, he would have executed f!Amell.
  
  
  
  
• His categorization of his interest in f!Amell as a shameful, childish, infatuation upon her return to the Tower during Broken Circle.

Furthermore, to those of you whose interest increased based on his appearance in DA:2:

• His assertion that mages - such as many present suppose to romance him with in DA:3 - "are not people."

Finally, if any or all of the above are acknowledged in your answer as problematic, is your interest in a Cullen/mage romance predicated on his recanting and/or converting to a different viewpoint?  What if he doesn't?  

If you'd like to interpret this post as being a hint as to why there is backlash towards Cullen romance fans on here and Tumblr, that would be perfectly reasonable, because it is.

I guess his position as a Templar and the duties that the title entail allowed for some leniency as far as finding that interaction in Origins tolerable. He states that if Amell/Surana were to fail in their Harrowing, he would have had to kill her. Completely understandable, for at that point she would have been an abonimation and logic would dictate that she would need to be executed. The statements afterward that he "would have felt terrible" and his obvious discomfort at the task makes it clear that though the outcome would have been regrettable, an abomination recieves no sympathy, as no sympathy would be given by the mage at that point. While these two observations by Cullen may not be "sweet", they do indicate his soft spot for the treatment of mages and what the Order dictates necessary in such situations.

I've already stated that at first I was irritated at his reaction to the female PC mage's presence at the Broken Circle. As to it's appeal to others, I guess it can be catergorized under the whole "I like you, but I shouldn't like you" forbidden romance deal that many women (not all) find appealing.

Again, as far as DA 2 goes, he is a templar who has suffered greatly at the hands of mages. It makes sense that his view of them is much more negative than most. If he started off about the innocence of all mages, I'd think he were a complete nutter that obviously needs to re-evaluate his opinion. And not to nit pick, but he does not just say they are not people, he says "they are not people like you and me" Which is correct. They can create lightning and fire with a snap of the wrist and bring about the destruction of towns unarmed. This doesn't exactly make Cullen look sweet, but it does show he is no longer the child who views mages as helpless victims, and has a guarded outlook on what an unstable mage is capable of. This to me was a sign of maturity, which in result came off as attractive for his character.

Modifié par littlenikki, 15 novembre 2012 - 01:20 .

[R2s Muse]

motomotogirl wrote...

Btw, speaking of DA2 Cullen (and that was the first Cullen I discovered), I was replaying the game the other day, and he really is a hard-liner, especially if Hawke is super pro-mage. I wanted to slap him. Only in Act 3 does he say, when you click on him, that Meredith might be mad, and that following Meredith is not necessarily following the templar way. BUT I don't think he's changed his opinion on mages whatsoever. Still thinks they're all dangerous and need to be kept separate from the rest of society, and it's the templars' sacred duty to be their jailers.

Yeah, he really doesn't change his tune until late in the game. And, even so, I think after Act 3 he would still believe that mages belong in the Circle. I think it will take something more dramatic... like the abolition of the Circles for him to look at other models for protecting the mages. But yeah, it isn't until Act 3 that you can have random convos in the Gallows and during the pro-templar ending where he talks about doubting Meredith and her path. Even during Best Served Cold, if you go super aggro as Hawke and tell him to kill 'em all, he gets all hardline as well. He really responds to Hawke's influence... obvious by design.

[R2s Muse]

Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

Would templars even feel it if you poked them? Considering all that armor..they may think a fly just slammed into it again because of its shininess.

Do you think the sun ever glares off their armor and blindes enemies?

LOL Having stared at that armor for way to long... and thought way too  much about how to take it off... The plate doesn't completely cover his arms... You could poke him there... :innocent: ahem.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 15 novembre 2012 - 01:23 .

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

Would templars even feel it if you poked them? Considering all that armor..they may think a fly just slammed into it again because of its shininess.

Do you think the sun ever glares off their armor and blindes enemies?

LOL Having stared at that armor for way to long... and thought way too  much about how to take it off... The plate doesn't completely cover his arms... You could poke him there... :innocent: ahem.

Well, there's a lot of straps. Shouldn't be too hard to remove with two people!

Modifié par LolaLei, 15 novembre 2012 - 01:41 .

[meanieweenie]

R2s Muse wrote...

Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

Would templars even feel it if you poked them? Considering all that armor..they may think a fly just slammed into it again because of its shininess.

Do you think the sun ever glares off their armor and blindes enemies?

LOL Having stared at that armor for way to long... and thought way too  much about how to take it off... The plate doesn't completely cover his arms... You could poke him there... :innocent: ahem.

R2 - your ogling doesn't count, as it's for 'research' for your writing. Right? Right?

[Sable Rhapsody]

Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

Now I just thought of a bunch of young templar men in their smalls having tickle fights and giggling....gah!

...I have only one thing to say to this.

"USE THE FEATHER!"

Oh, man, you guys are awesome.  ILU ALL AND IT'S ONLY BEEN LIKE TWO PAGES 

[RosaAquafire]

Well, I only came to this topic out of curiosity for what David posted here, and I'm not EXACTLY a Cullen fan in the magnitude that the other fans here are in this thread, but I am DEFINITELY hoping he's a romance option in DA3 and I find Shorts's question interesting and so I'll answer it

DISCLAIMER: I've never played a female Surana or Amell, my only mage playthrough was with a male character. So my knowledge of Cullen's "romance" in DA:O is absorbed from four years of osmosis and the fact that my best friend's first and canon Warden is an f!Surana.

So, with that in mind!

The appeal of Cullen to me, in BOTH games, but moreso as he starts coming into his own as a more nuanced character in DA2, is that he's pretty genuinely conflicted, and characters who are conflicted are never NOT interesting. He seems completely torn between the belief system he's been brought up on and training on and indoctrinated into, and the fact that he's a nice, smart guy with a well-attuned moral compass (for Thedas.) He very strongly believes that the role Templars fulfill is an important one. Abominations need to be put down, mages need to be controlled, and this is a logical and reasonable position for him to take. But on the other hand, he seems to believes that the role Templars fulfill is more like the Templars that Wynne sees than the ones that Anders sees. Protectors, guardians, pillars of support and mercy killers if neccessary. He was pretty messed up by the events of Broken Circle, but in DA2 he seemed to have his head back on his shoulders.

A really interesting thing is that on pro-mage DA2 games, Cullen seems dead set against your ideology. But on ANTI-mage games, Cullen is very reasonable and seems to express doubt in your hardlining. My first and canon Hawke was anti-mage in a shades of grey this really sucks for everybody sort of way, and Cullen came off as entirely neutrel to me. His more hardline approach to the situation on my second game came as a shock. But no matter what direction he goes in, he still sides against Meredith at the end and won't remain accomplice to her tyranny. He has limits.

The conflict of Cullen and the way his moral code is challenged is awesome to me because I feel he's just about the ONLY CHARACTER in the Dragon Age series who recognizes the real complexity of the mage issue. The only other one who comes close is Wynne. Unlike Varric or Isabela, who either don't really care or only care for ideological reasons, Cullen is one of the only people who has a real opinion on what is ostensibly the biggest part of DA's setting and doesn't take a fanatical stance one way or the other. To me he's like a microcosm for the entire MAGE ISSUE ™ that doesn't treat it like a black and white issue -- like most of the BSN does >_>

I wouldn't say that he sees mages sub-human so much as he sees them as NOT LIKE YOU AND ME and ... he's right. I think Cullen comes off as really pragmatic about the situation in DA2, but, once again, still very conflicted.

So, bringing this all around!

I would love to have a voice in DA3 who takes a stance on the mage/templar issue that isn't MAGES GOOD, TEMPLARS BAD or vice versa. DA2's cast was very polarized on the issue and that worked really well for DA2, but I think DA3 is gonna need a more nuanced field of opinion. So I think Cullen's conflicted and INFORMED opinion on the situation would be really interesting and he'd give a lot of value to the party.

Ah, but what about the romance, you say?

Well, again -- Cullen is conflicted! I hope to god that F/R romances are here to stay, because I think Cullen is a PERFECT character for it, especially if he doesn't go the way of Anders and do what he does regardless of you. It's FUN playing a character who challenges another character's worldview. I personally DON'T ship Cullen x Amell/Surana, because of the power imbalance you mention, though from what I hear his flirting IS pretty cute. But the Inquistor could be the opposite -- he or she could be in a position of power over Cullen. Cullen could be overwhelmed with respet for the Inquisitor and that could make him change his mind about mages. OR maybe Cullen could influence the Inquisitor and make HER see the world from a different angle and create a dynamic PLAYER character via the relationship.

On top of that, in DA2 once he's older and has his s*** together, Cullen comes off as being a very even-tempered and rational sort of person, which would be a nice change in LI from ... well, all the male LIs in DA so far. All the conflicted angst with none of the crazy. I absolutely LOVE all four dude LIs so far, but different is always fun and better, and Cullen is definitely different than any of them!

FINALLY, the comment David Gaider made when DA2 was coming out and people were complaining about Fenris stands once again: "Nobody fantasizes about their boyfriend." Yeah, there are problematic areas of a Cullen romance, but THAT IS AWESOME. We LIKE problematic stuff. We like drama, we like angst, we like things that are taboo irl. I'm a survivor of a brutal abusive relationship, but I find idealized fictional abusers written as a female fantasy pretty cathartic. Women who are into problematic dynamics aren't secretly hoping to be abused. I don't want a Fenris irl. He's cranky and withholding and self-absorbed and damaged and angry and oh god so many other terrible things. But Fenris is still my ~*ultimate fake boyfriend*~ because we don't fantasize about the stable, normal, well-adjusted guy we actually want to date irl. Healthy is great for reality and crappy for fiction, because healthy is by definition boring.


TL;DR: Cullen is an interesting character who would provide a lot to the DA3 story either as a party member or an LI, and while I'm not EXACTLY a fangirl for him I am eagerly hoping I can romance him because I think the dynamics between Cullen and a love interest, male or female, mage or templar, WHATEVER, would be interesting, new, and fun to roleplay. And women who enjoy the fantasy of damaged guys with dark conflicted souls don't deserve to be shamed for it.

Modifié par RosaAquafire, 15 novembre 2012 - 01:35 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

RosaAquafire wrote...
But Fenris is still my ~*ultimate fake boyfriend*~ because we don't fantasize about the stable, normal, well-adjusted guy we actually want to date irl. Healthy is great for reality and crappy for fiction, because healthy is by definition boring.

Well, that can depend.  Kaidan and Garrus are very popular LIs, and they're both very healthy, stable, mature relationships by ME3.  But I do get the general gist of what you're saying--drama is fun in fiction, and the more of it, the merrier.

I think it says something about me when my two favorite LIs are Garrus, the best fictional boyfriend ever, and Anders, the worst fictional boyfriend ever.  Probably not anything good 

[LolaLei]

RosaAquafire wrote...

women who enjoy the fantasy of damaged guys with dark conflicted souls don't deserve to be shamed for it.

Very well said! (The whole post, but particularly this part) ^^^

[CuriousArtemis]

Yeah and I can't say I fantasize about any of the LIs ... that would be odd (for me). I just like them as characters and I like to read/write fantasy with a dash of romance. And conflicted characters just make more interesting characters.

Granted, it is nice when one or both of the characters in the romance is very good-looking lol

Amazing post, Rosa, and if you like Cullen, find him interesting, and hope to see him in DA3, that pretty much qualifies you for this thread

[CuriousArtemis]

LolaLei wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

women who enjoy the fantasy of damaged guys with dark conflicted souls don't deserve to be shamed for it.

Very well said! (The whole post, but particularly this part) ^^^

TRUTH! Preach. 

[meanieweenie]

Well said, RosaAquafire.

For the record, I rarely roll mage so I don't feel I can answer the Amell /Cullen questions.

[LolaLei]

motomotogirl wrote...

Yeah and I can't say I fantasize about any of the LIs ... that would be odd (for me). I just like them as characters and I like to read/write fantasy with a dash of romance. And conflicted characters just make more interesting characters.

Granted, it is nice when one or both of the characters in the romance is very good-looking lol

Amazing post, Rosa, and if you like Cullen, find him interesting, and hope to see him in DA3, that pretty much qualifies you for this thread

Exactly. I mean, I don't sit there diddling my skittle whilst watching Cullen stand around in the Gallows for hours on end. I like his character because he's interesting and it would be cool to have him around as a companion, so that we can interact with him etc. As for the romance part, sure, he'd be my chosen LI for the new protagonist. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean I have posters of him plastered to my walls or fantasise about riding off into the sunset with him, like a lot of people within this forum seem to think that us "fan girls" do. 

My interest in him is from a purely gameplay/story perspective. I don't wanna shag the pixel guy in real life. 

... Now, if he was a real person, then that would be a completely different matter altogether!