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[R2s Muse]

So here's an explicit question to y'all, to get some Cullen discussion going. Following up on my recent posts about Cullen in Best Served Cold. So, if you don't tell him to go easy on Alain, he says "Those templars are spoiled. If they had witnessed what I saw in Ferelden, they'd know to never trust a mage."

So at this point, do you think he's speaking the truth? Do you think he would never trust a mage at that point? He seems to like Hawke, who can be a mage... Is he talking the talk, but knows he doesn't believe it? Or, would he really tell you that he doesn't trust any mages?

Figure 1: Cullen looking hot pensive.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 18 novembre 2012 - 12:12 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

MinttyMint wrote...
I prefer DA2 Cullen and wouldnt have taken an interest if it werent for him appearing in DA2 being the way he was. 

Same.  Part of why he's such an interesting character to me is his role and perspective in the mage/templar conflict.  It's easy for a character like Elthina to maintain a level head when she's never experienced its horrors firsthand.  It's harder--and IMO much more commendable--from a character like Cullen, who's seen the worst of both mages and templars more than once.  

I do laugh and go "d'awww" at his awkward flailing in DA:O, but I also do that when my cat runs headfirst into his kitty gym while playing chase-the-ball.  Silly Ser Pounce-a-lot 

R2s Muse wrote...
So at this point, do you think he's speaking the truth? Do you think he would never trust a mage at that point? He seems to like Hawke, who can be a mage... Is he talking the talk, but knows he doesn't believe it? Or, would he really tell you that he doesn't trust any mages?

I think it's possible for him to believe what he's saying without necessarily being in Camp Meredith.  It's not that mages are bad people, it's that their powers make them constantly dangerous.  He mistrusts magic and its abuse, not necessarily mages as individuals.

As for Cullen getting along with a mage Hawke, I tend to discount that as the game is stupidly unresponsive to some of your choices, especially as a mage. When playing with my blood mage Hawke, I was like, "Um, Cullen...SHE'S KIND OF A MALEFICAR WHO'S BEEN MURDERING TEMPLARS SINCE ACT ONE.  WHY AREN'T YOU NOTICING?!"

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 18 novembre 2012 - 12:34 .

[Minttymint]

Its interesting how he said "spoiled" like the other templars have to go
through something as bad as he did in  order to be equal. I would have thought he wouldnt
want them to suffer the way he did...
I believe he thinks you shouldnt trust mages but you can trust a mage... If that makes sense. Like mages can be trusted but for him trust is a big deal and they should earn it- prove their worth. Theyre dangerous and I think he is right not trusting them off the bat. Which would make it more interesting if he is a love interest and you are a mage in DA3. Mages have no appeal to me but that alone would make me want to play as one- the harder the romance the more satisfying it is.

He does seem to be okay with mage Hawke but that doesnt necessarily mean
he trusts him/her plus its probably due to the game barely recognising
Hawke as a mage.

[meanieweenie]

R2s Muse wrote...

So here's an explicit question to y'all, to get some Cullen discussion going. Following up on my recent posts about Cullen in Best Served Cold. So, if you don't tell him to go easy on Alain, he says "Those templars are spoiled. If they had witnessed what I saw in Ferelden, they'd know to never trust a mage."

So at this point, do you think he's speaking the truth? Do you think he would never trust a mage at that point? He seems to like Hawke, who can be a mage... Is he talking the talk, but knows he doesn't believe it? Or, would he really tell you that he doesn't trust any mages?

This scene always throws me off because it feels like it should've come earlier in the game. By this point hasn't Cullen already voiced his concern that perhaps Meredith isn't really all there? That maybe it's not a good idea to lump all mages into one big "evil" pile. Especially if you played mage Hawke. It just feels disjointed to me.

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...

So here's an explicit question to y'all, to get some Cullen discussion going. Following up on my recent posts about Cullen in Best Served Cold. So, if you don't tell him to go easy on Alain, he says "Those templars are spoiled. If they had witnessed what I saw in Ferelden, they'd know to never trust a mage."

So at this point, do you think he's speaking the truth? Do you think he would never trust a mage at that point? He seems to like Hawke, who can be a mage... Is he talking the talk, but knows he doesn't believe it? Or, would he really tell you that he doesn't trust any mages?

Figure 1: Cullen looking hot pensive.

I think he's speaking about his own disillusionment here. Many people know that something is not a good idea, caution others not to do it, and the go do it themselves. Emotions defy logic, sometimes actively. If the incentive is great enough, he might rethink that stance.

Edit: I mean, look at that chin. Nothing says "I hope I'm wrong" like that chin.

Modifié par berelinde, 18 novembre 2012 - 01:52 .

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Figure 1: Cullen looking hot pensive.

Edit: I mean, look at that chin. Nothing says "I hope I'm wrong don't hate me because I'm beautiful" like that chin.

There. Fixed it for ya!


LOL More seriously, yeah, I also find that scene a bit disjointed from the rest of his dialogue in Act 3, since indeed he is having serious misgivings about Meredith at this point. But then... trusting a mage is a slightly different issue than his disagreement with Meredith, which is about her draconian treatment of mages within the Circle. I think that he still believes in the Order and its role as wardens of the Circles. So, would he trust the mages with freedom, for example? My guess would be no. Does he trust a mage never to be a danger? Probably not. Would he think every mage in the world is an untrustworthy individual, meaning that being a mage pre-disposes you to be dishonest and devious? That I would doubt at this point, given his potential friendship with mage!Hawke. Of course there are obvious gameplay issues with this fact, but he does acknowledge that Hawke is mage. :shrug:

[littlenikki]

R2s Muse wrote...

So here's an explicit question to y'all, to get some Cullen discussion going. Following up on my recent posts about Cullen in Best Served Cold. So, if you don't tell him to go easy on Alain, he says "Those templars are spoiled. If they had witnessed what I saw in Ferelden, they'd know to never trust a mage."

So at this point, do you think he's speaking the truth? Do you think he would never trust a mage at that point? He seems to like Hawke, who can be a mage... Is he talking the talk, but knows he doesn't believe it? Or, would he really tell you that he doesn't trust any mages?

I think that he is capable of trusting a mage, so long as that person has proven him/herself. Probably something similar to Fenris, where overall he may expect the worst of mages, but does not dismiss them all together.

[LolaLei]

That line in Act 3 always throws me off too. I guess maybe they didn't want him to say "Y'know what? Some mages are pretty damn cool!" Cos that might be a part of his story arc that they'll want to address in DA3 if he's a companion/LI... otherwise there wouldn't be any angst left surrounding a relationship/friendship with a mage protagonist, or even a Mage companion.

I don't think he'll ever be a complete Mage sympathiser again, but I could see him eventually realising that it's not the power they weld that makes a ticking time and demon bait, but the personality and strength of will of the individual. I'd like to think that he's already won half that battle after realising how mad Meredith was with all that power at her fingertips, even before the lyrium idol.

[LolaLei]

I just recieved the letter from Cullen about Aveline. If you go talk to him after you receive it, he says:

"Champion, I hope you recieved my letter. Hopefully you can address the accusations against the guard captain. I don't have time for gentle solutions."

I wonder what he meant by that?

[LolaLei]

Thinking about it, Cullen is probably putting his arse on the line by warning Hawke about the plans to over throw Aveline. Surely Meredith would prefer to have her own Knight Captain take control of the guard directly so that she has even more power and control of Kirkwall.

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...

So, would he trust the mages with freedom, for example? My guess would be no. Does he trust a mage never to be a danger? Probably not. Would he think every mage in the world is an untrustworthy individual, meaning that being a mage pre-disposes you to be dishonest and devious? That I would doubt at this point, given his potential friendship with mage!Hawke. Of course there are obvious gameplay issues with this fact, but he does acknowledge that Hawke is mage. :shrug:

He'd better be able to learn to trust mages or it bodes ill for future companion status, let alone LI status. Followers need to be able to trust their leader.

It is possible that his more recent experiences have taught him to reserve trust for individuals who have earned it, mage or not.

Or are you talking about "At the time this picture was taken, what do you think he believed?" If that was your question, I'd say that his thumb was still on the templar side of the scale, but he was starting to wonder if it really belonged there. Half of his Act 3 arguments sound more like he's trying to convince himself than his listeners.

[LolaLei]

Hehehe, I'd forgotten how awkward he sounded when Hawke and Aveline return to the Gallows to tell him that the claims were unfounded. Aveline is one scary lady!

[LolaLei]

Well that was weird. My game just referred to Alistair as King, even though we met him earlier on as a Warden.

[meanieweenie]

LolaLei wrote...

Hehehe, I'd forgotten how awkward he sounded when Hawke and Aveline return to the Gallows to tell him that the claims were unfounded. Aveline is one scary lady!

I always bring Aveline with me to confront the accusations... always. I don't like the talking behind friends' backs. You got somethin' to say? Say it, punk. lol

[LolaLei]

LOL someone sent my Hawke a letter saying "Meredith's a loony", I found it in the back room behind where Sandal stands. I wonder if that was Anders? Would be funny if it was Cullen or one of the other Templars.

[R2s Muse]

Berelinde - yeah, I was talking about in that moment... But you bring up a good point. I think even after Act 3 he would still believe in the Circle. But I think he could and would grow to trust an individual Mage who had earned it, even if he might have lingering reservations about mages as a group.

I also agree that trust in ones followers is important, and that could even be a cool issue for a Mage PC in DA3 to overcome with Cullen. As it should have been for Fenris (and was but only a little bit). If our specialization a have greater impact, that would be one thing I'd like to see.

[R2s Muse]

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Hehehe, I'd forgotten how awkward he sounded when Hawke and Aveline return to the Gallows to tell him that the claims were unfounded. Aveline is one scary lady!

I always bring Aveline with me to confront the accusations... always. I don't like the talking behind friends' backs. You got somethin' to say? Say it, punk. lol

Yeah, I love it. Unfortunately, she doesn't say anything the first time you go, IIRC. I remember my second playthrough thinking my game was bugged when in fact she talks to Cullen at the end of the quest instead.

I love the notion that Aveline and Cullen are each other's counterparts, as captains of each of their organizations. I always headcanon that they met with each other frequently for their jobs.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

LOL someone sent my Hawke a letter saying "Meredith's a loony", I found it in the back room behind where Sandal stands. I wonder if that was Anders? Would be funny if it was Cullen or one of the other Templars.

LOL I don't remember that one! After a while I got so tired of hearing the same thing I stopped clicking on the furniture. Still bummed I didn't ever get the one about Anders's socks. LMAO

[LolaLei]

Man, Cullen seemed quite spooked when he speaks of Samson and the mages all strung up in the Gallows courtyard after I told him to get Meredith to kill them all. I think that's the third time we've seen his mask slip in this game.

His voice during that dialogue sounds like a mixture of disgust, nausea and as though he's had the energy sapped out of him.

Modifié par LolaLei, 18 novembre 2012 - 10:11 .

[LolaLei]

I kinda found Cullen to be very cold during that quest where you brother/sister/LI gets kidnapped. I think he sounded like he was completely fed up of the situation and carried out his duty without batting an eyelid. Hard to imagine that he once said that he done his job with a heavy heart.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Man, Cullen seemed quite spooked when he speaks of Samson and the mages all strung up in the Gallows courtyard after I told him to get Meredith to kill them all. I think that's the third time we've seen his mask slip in this game.

His voice during that dialogue sounds like a mixture of disgust, nausea and as though he's had the energy sapped out of him.

Rats, my save game where I've been replaying Best Served Cold still has Aveline as an open quest. So when I talk to Cullen after killing all the mages, he still talks about Aveline. I'll have to find time to finish that part up so I can see that.

[LolaLei]

It's a good one, it's not often you get to see his mask slip.

He's certainly one tough bastard in DA2 though, if he's a companion/LI then I could imagine him being a tough nut to crack. Hopefully he'd be a little less professional sounding since he wouldn't be working or anything.

[Sable Rhapsody]

R2s Muse wrote...

I also agree that trust in ones followers is important, and that could even be a cool issue for a Mage PC in DA3 to overcome with Cullen. As it should have been for Fenris (and was but only a little bit). If our specialization a have greater impact, that would be one thing I'd like to see.

This.  Frankly, it irks me that I got almost the exact same dialogue from Cullen with my crazy maleficar Hawke and my happy-go-lucky pro-Chantry Hawke.  I do recall the devs on the DA3 forum talking about how they also felt DA2 was unresponsive (generally speaking) to the protagonist being a mage, but they thought it'd be far worse if they just cut out the class altogether.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 18 novembre 2012 - 10:24 .

[Narcia_]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

LOL someone sent my Hawke a letter saying "Meredith's a loony", I found it in the back room behind where Sandal stands. I wonder if that was Anders? Would be funny if it was Cullen or one of the other Templars.

LOL I don't remember that one! After a while I got so tired of hearing the same thing I stopped clicking on the furniture. Still bummed I didn't ever get the one about Anders's socks. LMAO

Do you have your Mabari? iirc, pawprints on the bed replaces Anders socks, so I've never heard it in my games either. Good thing there's youtube

[R2s Muse]

Narcia_ wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

LOL someone sent my Hawke a letter saying "Meredith's a loony", I found it in the back room behind where Sandal stands. I wonder if that was Anders? Would be funny if it was Cullen or one of the other Templars.

LOL I don't remember that one! After a while I got so tired of hearing the same thing I stopped clicking on the furniture. Still bummed I didn't ever get the one about Anders's socks. LMAO

Do you have your Mabari? iirc, pawprints on the bed replaces Anders socks, so I've never heard it in my games either. Good thing there's youtube

Yeah, I know. I got whatchacallit's emporium at purchase, so it took me forever to figure out that it was replaced with the dog comment. Still bums me out, tho! I was still bitter from the lack of... familiarity after Anders moved into my house (and he still said "I need to find a nicer place" -- jerkoff!), so that kind of a sock comment would have been welcome to give at least some sense that we were really happily cohabitating like little rabbits.