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[meanieweenie]

Was this started the day everyone temporarily de-cloaked? It's wonderful!

[R2s Muse]

Nikki, you're a rockstar for doing it all for us! Thanks again!

[littlenikki]

meanieweenie wrote...

Was this started the day everyone temporarily de-cloaked? It's wonderful!

It started with R2 saying how Lola could cosplay Morrigan or something, and then I photo manip'd myself as Miranda, then everyone started decloaking and the idea for a Cullen army was made 

[meanieweenie]

Well it's awesome. And you've done a fine job!

[R2s Muse]

So here's a topic. I was reminded recently of the convo with Cullen about the Tranquil solution. I've always been struck by the way Cullen makes a point of never telling you what he actually thinks, instead talking in generalities... "They say" "some consider" But! He does admit to knowing about Alrik's Tranquil Solution.

How much do you think Cullen knew about Meredith's and presumably Alrik's overuse of the rite of tranquility?

[littlenikki]

R2s Muse wrote...

So here's a topic. I was reminded recently of the convo with Cullen about the Tranquil solution. I've always been struck by the way Cullen makes a point of never telling you what he actually thinks, instead talking in generalities... "They say" "some consider" But! He does admit to knowing about Alrik's Tranquil Solution.

How much do you think Cullen knew about Meredith's and presumably Alrik's overuse of the rite of tranquility?

I tend to think that he knew about it, but due to his position as Meredith's subordinate wasn't able to do much about it besides argue in favor for a less harsh solution. I mean, a lot of his attitude depends on how Hawke addresses him. I remember one part where you can agree with him that something needs to change, but there has to be a way to appease both sides when addressing the issues. Then he goes off about educating mages about why Templars exist and such. 

[R2s Muse]

For reference

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=7iflPNQK2EU

[meanieweenie]

In my mind he may have heard the rumors but nothing substantiated. Perhaps he was still gathering evidence. I can't imagine Cullen not voicing a strong opinion - whether pro or con - on the subject of Tranquil Solition if he had cold hard facts.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

So here's a topic. I was reminded recently of the convo with Cullen about the Tranquil solution. I've always been struck by the way Cullen makes a point of never telling you what he actually thinks, instead talking in generalities... "They say" "some consider" But! He does admit to knowing about Alrik's Tranquil Solution.

How much do you think Cullen knew about Meredith's and presumably Alrik's overuse of the rite of tranquility?

That's something I wonder too. I mean, I think he considers the rite of tranquility preferable to out right slaughter, but at the same time he admits himself that things in Kirkwall are going too far and he can no longer tell if he's serving the Order or Meredith.

I do wonder whether he was kept in the dark about certain things, especially as Meredith grew increasingly paranoid. She knew Cullen often talked with and was some what friendly with a mage Hawke/a Hawke who had mage's in his/her party so I could imagine her keeping a lot of her more shady dealings to herself. Chances are that she felt like Cullen was going soft anyway. Or at least, I'd like to think so.

It could turn out that he knew all along and agreed with it. I'm hoping we'll get answers in DA3, regardless of the part he plays in DA3, be it as a companion or npc/cameo. 

Modifié par LolaLei, 28 novembre 2012 - 03:39 .

[R2s Muse]

Do you think he could be ... Covering for Meredith in that scene?

[LolaLei]

LMAO! I just totally noticed that Cullen says to Anders "believe what you like, mage" yet makes no attempt to put him back in the tower. Oh Cullen, you're so silly.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

Do you think he could be ... Covering for Meredith in that scene?

Well, he says "the harrowing has served us well enough for centuries", so it sounds like he prefers to let mages prove themselves worthy, rather than making them all tranquil like Meredith would prefer. He also says "do you think it's easy to deal with a mage that truly wants to deal with demons" - so it kinda sounds like he's only refering to the ones that openly embrace demonic posession/try to cut deals with them etc.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

LMAO! I just totally noticed that Cullen says to Anders "believe what you like, mage" yet makes no attempt to put him back in the tower. Oh Cullen, you're so silly.

Meredith knows he's a Mage, too. She makes a crack about it in Act 3 if you get the magê retrieval quests from her instead of Orsino.

makes me wonder if the templars don't know that Anders and the healer Mage in dark town are one and the same. LOL

[R2s Muse]

Hey, where's motomotogirl? Didn't she say she wanted some discussion...? LOL

I gotta crash.. Night everyone!

[LolaLei]

Tweet:

BlairBrown: "God I love the concept art folder... Could spend days in there."

[Fylimar]

About Cullen and Meredith recognizing Anders as a mage: Officially he is still a Grey Warden and as such should be safe, no one in Kirkwall - beside Hawke and friends - know, that he left. Since the Blight is over, it should not be that strange, that a GW is doing something other than figthing Darkspawn. He could always say, that he is recruiting or on a mission to gather information or something like that. I always thought, that his concern was about Meredith and her templars not playing by the rules (like that Knight Commander in Awakening ) and therefore he liked to lay low.
I don't remember - wasn't Anders from the Ferelden CoM? If so, he and Cullen probably know each other and it's possible, that Cullen would have told Meredith about him.

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...

So here's a topic. I was reminded recently of the convo with Cullen about the Tranquil solution. I've always been struck by the way Cullen makes a point of never telling you what he actually thinks, instead talking in generalities... "They say" "some consider" But! He does admit to knowing about Alrik's Tranquil Solution.

How much do you think Cullen knew about Meredith's and presumably Alrik's overuse of the rite of tranquility?

Kirkwall was not exactly a font of uninhibited communication. I doubt he knew. That said, he should have. Even if he made a point of not talking to mages, he must have noticed the exponential increase in the number of Tranquil during his tenure. I imagine that some mages at least would have attempted to fight the Rite, so it isn't as if the First Enchanter could have done the thing without templar oversight and participation. If the number of Tranquil was rising and he was not getting requests for templars, he probably should have figured out that they were conducting the Rite without Circle sanction.

Also, the Rite requires lyrium, a tightly regulated commodity. If lyrium was going missing, he should probably have been aware of it and he probably should have investigated the reason. If templars were using black market lyrium to circumvent Chantry disbursement regulations, they would have had to pay for it somehow, which suggests the misappropriation of funds, which he also should have been aware of. I find it unlikely that they would have used their own money. High-ranking templars probably draw a decent salary, but it isn't *that* good.

I'm not saying this because I dislike Cullen. I just think that finding the answer to some of these questions will prove very interesting. I hope they're addressed in DA3.

[LolaLei]

Fylimar wrote...

About Cullen and Meredith recognizing Anders as a mage: Officially he is still a Grey Warden and as such should be safe, no one in Kirkwall - beside Hawke and friends - know, that he left. Since the Blight is over, it should not be that strange, that a GW is doing something other than figthing Darkspawn. He could always say, that he is recruiting or on a mission to gather information or something like that. I always thought, that his concern was about Meredith and her templars not playing by the rules (like that Knight Commander in Awakening ) and therefore he liked to lay low.
I don't remember - wasn't Anders from the Ferelden CoM? If so, he and Cullen probably know each other and it's possible, that Cullen would have told Meredith about him.

In theory. However, Anders makes reference several times to the fact that Templars have been snooping around trying to send him back to the circle, which is why you can give him to key to your house (if romanced) so that he can escape through the tunnels near his clinic. Cullen also makes reference to the fact that his Templars have so far been unable to catch him (if you try to shop him in). So I think while under any normal circumstances Anders would've been relatively safe, Meredith pretty much takes the law into her own hands and aims to capture him regardless of him being in Hawke's party etc.

Modifié par LolaLei, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:14 .

[LolaLei]

*Edit* double post.

Modifié par LolaLei, 28 novembre 2012 - 02:13 .

[Narcia_]

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

So here's a topic. I was reminded recently of the convo with Cullen about the Tranquil solution. I've always been struck by the way Cullen makes a point of never telling you what he actually thinks, instead talking in generalities... "They say" "some consider" But! He does admit to knowing about Alrik's Tranquil Solution.

How much do you think Cullen knew about Meredith's and presumably Alrik's overuse of the rite of tranquility?

Kirkwall was not exactly a font of uninhibited communication. I doubt he knew. That said, he should have. Even if he made a point of not talking to mages, he must have noticed the exponential increase in the number of Tranquil during his tenure. I imagine that some mages at least would have attempted to fight the Rite, so it isn't as if the First Enchanter could have done the thing without templar oversight and participation. If the number of Tranquil was rising and he was not getting requests for templars, he probably should have figured out that they were conducting the Rite without Circle sanction.

Also, the Rite requires lyrium, a tightly regulated commodity. If lyrium was going missing, he should probably have been aware of it and he probably should have investigated the reason. If templars were using black market lyrium to circumvent Chantry disbursement regulations, they would have had to pay for it somehow, which suggests the misappropriation of funds, which he also should have been aware of. I find it unlikely that they would have used their own money. High-ranking templars probably draw a decent salary, but it isn't *that* good.

I'm not saying this because I dislike Cullen. I just think that finding the answer to some of these questions will prove very interesting. I hope they're addressed in DA3.

I'm curious, does anyone actually know what the right of tranquility involves? I mean, wouldn't you need a compliant mage to assist in the ritual? Templars have abilities that can temporariliy inhibit mages from "touching" the fade (see holy smite) I I would think it would take a bit more to completely sever that connection. I mean, to be at all effective at ousting a demon without hurting the host it was implied that several mages and a significant amount of lyrium could be needed in Origins ... Do you think there were cowardly mages who helped Ulrik out of fear, or because they were put under duress? I honestly think that if just a templar had the ability to do that to a mage we'd see a fair number more Ulriks out there. I mean, why bother to bring them to the gallows to turn them tranquil? Why not just raid Darktown, do the deed and then leave them there?

On a side note, how come tranquil mages still have to live at the tower? They no longer pose the threat that active mages do. I suppose it's to protect them from the ignorant, magic hating public ...

[LolaLei]

Something I'm hoping will be a "thing" in Cullen's personal backstory is him mentioning/lamenting over what a rubbish Templar he's been... Partly because it'll patch up a few plot holes and be kinda amusing, but mostly because I think it would add the whole crisis of faith thing.

... That's if he's a companion or even still a Templar.

[berelinde]

LolaLei wrote...

Fylimar wrote...

About Cullen and Meredith recognizing Anders as a mage: Officially he is still a Grey Warden and as such should be safe, no one in Kirkwall - beside Hawke and friends - know, that he left. Since the Blight is over, it should not be that strange, that a GW is doing something other than figthing Darkspawn. He could always say, that he is recruiting or on a mission to gather information or something like that. I always thought, that his concern was about Meredith and her templars not playing by the rules (like that Knight Commander in Awakening ) and therefore he liked to lay low.
I don't remember - wasn't Anders from the Ferelden CoM? If so, he and Cullen probably know each other and it's possible, that Cullen would have told Meredith about him.

In theory. However, Anders makes reference several times to the fact that Templars have been snooping around trying to send him back to the circle, which is why you can give him to key to your house (if romanced) so that he can escape through the tunnels near his clinic. Cullen also makes reference to the fact that his Templars have so far been unable to catch him (if you try to shop him in). So I think while under any normal circumstances Anders would've been relatively safe, Meredith pretty much takes the law into her own hands and aims to capture him regardless of him being in Hawke's party etc.

Even in Awakening, his Grey Warden status did not discourage the templars from hounding him. Who was that woman who set a trap for him in Amaranthine? Rylock? She heard that he was conscripted from the Warden Commander *and* the monarch of Ferelden and she still wouldn't leave him alone. In fact, a templar named Roland actually joined the Grey Wardens with the sole intention of being his jailer. 

They haven't discussed the details of the Rite of Tranquility. According to Chantry law, it can only be performed on Harrowed mages under the most dire circumstances. It always requires approval from both the Knight Commander and the First Enchanter. In DA:O, somebody... Owain?... says that it feels like being plunged into icy water. Various people in both games use the words "branded with lyrium" and in MotA, Anders's rescue fantasy involves a literal branding iron. Even in the books, they don't go into any kind of detail, which is kind of a shame. I'm curious, too.

[R2s Muse]

Isn't there also some mention during Act 3 that the templars are about to spring a trap of some kind on Anders...? Trying to remember if its a conversation with Cullen and Sebastian in your party? There's one where Sebastian is pretty harsh about the whole mage and Anders thing, IIRC.

Anyway, I guess it all makes about as much sense as the fact that everyone knows Hawke is a mage but let her run free. I chalk it up to a tentative, public truce between Mer and Hawke that extends to Hawke's people... which is why Mer wants to use the Right of Annulment as an easy opportunity to wipe Hawke out and tell whatever story she wants.

[R2s Muse]

Ah there we go... Act 3 Meredith vs. Anders, where she says that he's under the Champion's protection.

[Danny Boy 7]

Hey guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuys.