89415 réponses à ce sujet

[Newschmoo]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

 So I have a rather serious question for you guys that sort of striking home for me, or at the very least discussion over it hurts me because people are acting very callous in their delivery which might just be my overreacting or something. Ignore me if this makes you uncomfortable or if you want me to take it down I will.
So obviously the Maker is a big deal to Andrastians and there are people who believe in him and there are those who don't which is fine obviously, it's a game after all. But depending on your irl beliefs there can be some rather hurtful things said either way. This isn't to make anyone look bad or to force someone to change their beliefs so forgive me if it sounds that way and I'm open to anyone telling STFU.
I recently came across a thread on the Dragon Age wiki called, "do you believe in the maker" which my gut automatically said "this won't end well", "don't look", "danny boy, don't look!" because it can get a bit personal, either side of the argument gets heated and words are flung that shouldn't be flung.
Now to be clear I'm not a fan of either side of the argument. I don't really believe in moral superiority and in the end no side can be absolutely sure so left out of conversation tends to be my preferred...strategy I guess. I'd rather not bring it up at all than to make someone uncomfortable. And once again I apologize for this I will delete it the minute you guys say so I just need to vent.
In this thread it gets as...hurtful as you can imagine but I'm not going to post and tell them STFU or whatever because that is their beliefs and I have no right to scream they are wrong, no right to censure them and just all around no right to say anything negative because how can I do that and then expect someone to respect my beliefs right? That'd make me a hypocrite and I'd rather get behind an atheist who respects others beliefs than a Christian who is intolerant of other's beliefs and uses their beliefs as a soap box to spread that hate/intolerance.
I'm not even sure why I started this post I'm on the verge of tears because I wish that we could simply get along, to disagree but respect another's beliefs because fighting over something like this only hurts people in the long run. I guess my point is am I overreacting and simply need to toughen up a bit or should we as posters try and avoid bringing up certain conversations in the interest of respect towards other's beliefs. I mean they are gonna come up, but should we avoid straight out calling one group idiots/suckers etc and when someone does act like that treat them as an individual and not a spokesperson for their chosen belief set.

I'm just looking for advice I guess. Sorry for bringing it up...I'm just very tender right now.

I like to think we live in a society where freedom of speech is important, unless it is really offensive/hurtful/spiteful or disrepectful of peoples' beliefs.  I think a lot of it is probably due to ignorance, sometimes views are indoctrinated into a person during their upbringing.  But the great thing about people is that some can change or broaden their outlook if shown valid points and arguments.  Although there will be some who unfortunately will always be stuck in their ways.

Some people on forums (well the internet as a whole ) generally can be horrible/spiteful or just generally negative for the sake of it and for those, i just ignore their comments, because to respond to them in anyway will just fuel their fire.  If someone is negative but has a valid point/argument then I would probably respond, always respecting what they have said, but raising my own point.  They don't have to like it, but everyone is different and that is what makes us all unique.

[thejellnuggz]

I really want the Maker to appear in one of the future games and just b*tch-slap the Chantry for being a bunch of buttmunchers to mages and people with an opinion

I wonder what he even looks like. What if he's a lady? A bearded manlady.
Or even an elf? That would make the Chanty sh*t their pantaloons. Well, I would anyway.

Modifié par thejellnuggz, 04 décembre 2012 - 07:36 .

[littlenikki]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

My only advice would be to just avoid those certain topics, if people can't behave in a mature and civilized manner...which is almost always when it comes to the internet. Religion is a hot button issue wherever you go, so for the most part when it gets brought up in an environment where one can spew hate and bigotry with little to no consequence, it's very hard for anyone to keep things civil. If you do decide you wish to discuss it in an open way where anyone can join in the discussion, you're kinda forced to grow a thick skin. I'm sorry that it is upsetting you, and I can understand your desire to be able to engage in a deep discussion about something that seems very important to you, but in all honesty, it's really just not worth it (in my eyes) to expose yourself to that kind of negativity.

You're right and thanks for putting up with the question. Honestly I don't want to have huge deep conversations about the subject with anyone, despite the question. I just wish it didn't come up on the DAwiki as much as it does. For the most part I can deal with trolls, just stupid people saying stupid things, but when confronted with the subject in the way that it is how do I disagree with them without attacking their beliefs? I mean just because I don't agree with them doesn't mean they are wrong.

Maybe I should block the site in order to take away the temptation to get involved with conversations I know will hurt me.

Again ty nikki I'm just hurting and needed someone to talk to and you guys are the most understanding group I've ever met so why not you guys?

Crap I broke a nail.

The only thing you can do is state your opinion in a mature way, and wait to see if they will respond in an equally mature manner. If not, well, then they really aren't worth your time. There's certain people in the world that just cannot be swayed, it's just how they react to someone with a varying opinion that dictacts if you can carry on a discussion with them. If they become openly hostile, belitting, or any other sort of rudeness, nothing you say will help change their way of thinking. My sister is like that. No matter what it is, if you have a different opinion than her own, she takes it as a personal attack and reacts accordingly. Not saying my sister is a bad person, that's just the way her mind works. 

[Danny Boy 7]

Thanks all I appreciate the support and again I'm sorry for bringing it up. Maybe we should get Cullen/Carver in a box again to get stuff back on track I don't want to prolong this any longer than necessary.

[littlenikki]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

Thanks all I appreciate the support and again I'm sorry for bringing it up. Maybe we should get Cullen/Carver in a box again to get stuff back on track I don't want to prolong this any longer than necessary.

I still only have one entry for a caption on that one! C'mon people, don't be shy 

[Newschmoo]

I want to post but not sure how far one can go on the innuendo level. Also I am not the best at these things!

[Dreamlover2012]

motomotogirl wrote...

As a caveat, I would love to talk about religion in DA. What are "the gods"? What is The Maker? Is this a deity as we understand the term? Or is it simply a higher being? Does it/Did it really exist? In a world infused with magic, it can be easy to confuse "magic" for "miracle" (i.e. "Andraste's" ashes). I guess religion is what the writers make of it, though they haven't really revealed much. Impossible to come to any definitive conclusion at this point, I think.

I do think many players who are Western (or Westernized) monotheists have a tendency to accept The Maker as a canon deity but yet discount the Dalish pantheon as mere mythology.

Ohh... I kind of want to write a paper on that xD

Actually, You are completely right. Andrastate's ashes COULD possibly be just really good healing magic.

As for the devs, I read a thread somewhere on here where David Gaider piped in about this type of a discussion. He explained the different viewpoints on the Maker (and Chantry), the Elves, and even the Dawrves. He never said any of them were wrong in their beliefs. I don't think Dragon Age is going to force any religious belief on us. (I.E. And then the clouds parted and the Maker himself set down on the world of Thedas and all before him believed...ect)

I DO like discussing the religion and different view points in Dragon Age, and if you wrote a paper on it, I'd love to read it!

[Dreamlover2012]

As for the Cullen and Carver picture....*sigh* Nothing clever is coming to me.

[thejellnuggz]

Shouldn't it have something to do with smiting.. or swords... or maybe a reference to "boxes". I don't know. "I'll use my Holy Smite in YOUR box!" Or am I just being way too dirty-minded for this? SOMEONE STOP ME.

[Danny Boy 7]

motomotogirl wrote...

As a caveat, I would love to talk about religion in DA. What are "the gods"? What is The Maker? Is this a deity as we understand the term? Or is it simply a higher being? Does it/Did it really exist? In a world infused with magic, it can be easy to confuse "magic" for "miracle" (i.e. "Andraste's" ashes). I guess religion is what the writers make of it, though they haven't really revealed much. Impossible to come to any definitive conclusion at this point, I think.

I do think many players who are Western (or Westernized) monotheists have a tendency to accept The Maker as a canon deity but yet discount the Dalish pantheon as mere mythology.

Ohh... I kind of want to write a paper on that xD

Personally I like the idea of the Maker and Andraste because well I'm not sure entirely I try and remind myself during both the good and bad comments that Maker/Andraste are in fact fiction because in the end whatever they choose I will be able to avoid some semblance of personal strife. I also feel that certain things have pointed to the possibility of a deity of some nature, the Creators/Fen'Harel etc could very well be the Maker or vice versa though like you said it could very well be a higher being rather than a deity in our understanding/description of it.

Idk though is the Fade the afterlife? I mean have we come across mortal spirits? Well yes I mean I think so. During awakening there is that village but was that caused simply by magic and when the baroness was killed were they lost in the nether, idk it's interesting and if we could keep the discussion on that without getting off track or extra personal than I'd be fun bringing it up.

[R2s Muse]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

My only advice would be to just avoid those certain topics, if people can't behave in a mature and civilized manner...which is almost always when it comes to the internet. Religion is a hot button issue wherever you go, so for the most part when it gets brought up in an environment where one can spew hate and bigotry with little to no consequence, it's very hard for anyone to keep things civil. If you do decide you wish to discuss it in an open way where anyone can join in the discussion, you're kinda forced to grow a thick skin. I'm sorry that it is upsetting you, and I can understand your desire to be able to engage in a deep discussion about something that seems very important to you, but in all honesty, it's really just not worth it (in my eyes) to expose yourself to that kind of negativity.

You're right and thanks for putting up with the question. Honestly I don't want to have huge deep conversations about the subject with anyone, despite the question. I just wish it didn't come up on the DAwiki as much as it does. For the most part I can deal with trolls, just stupid people saying stupid things, but when confronted with the subject in the way that it is how do I disagree with them without attacking their beliefs? I mean just because I don't agree with them doesn't mean they are wrong.

Maybe I should block the site in order to take away the temptation to get involved with conversations I know will hurt me.

Again ty nikki I'm just hurting and needed someone to talk to and you guys are the most understanding group I've ever met so why not you guys?

Crap I broke a nail.

Ah, Danny Boy, hang in there, man. Been on a work call, so chiming in a bit tardy, but agree with littlenikki. The internet is a virulent place within which to have such meaningful conversations, and sometimes it's saner/happier to turn the other cheek than engage and try to change minds/hearts. After all, the old adage, haters gonna hate, is really true.

One thing you might consider... I have never participated in the DA wiki forums... but I am going to assume they're not moderated??  Maybe swap those for, at the very least, the BSN forums?   Sorta six of one and half a dozen of the other... but at least, once discussions start pulling in real-world religion on the BSN forums and getting hateful, they get shut down pretty fast. And, if not, a quick PM to one of the cognizant devs will do the trick.

It's honestly really too bad that we can't more easily have civil discourse on some of these topics. It reminds me of the question on that BW survey that asked about what kind of forum experience we wanted... and whether we preferred positive or negative incentives for wrongdoing. Sadly, particularly as a parent who knows better, I answered negative incentives. It's really really hard to model good behavior on the forum.  That being said... I'd like to think that's what we do here in our little happy corner of the BSN-verse.

So, sit for a minute, deep breath, big Cullen forum group hug, and head back out into the trenches, my son!

[R2s Muse]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

As a caveat, I would love to talk about religion in DA. What are "the gods"? What is The Maker? Is this a deity as we understand the term? Or is it simply a higher being? Does it/Did it really exist? In a world infused with magic, it can be easy to confuse "magic" for "miracle" (i.e. "Andraste's" ashes). I guess religion is what the writers make of it, though they haven't really revealed much. Impossible to come to any definitive conclusion at this point, I think.

I do think many players who are Western (or Westernized) monotheists have a tendency to accept The Maker as a canon deity but yet discount the Dalish pantheon as mere mythology.

Ohh... I kind of want to write a paper on that xD

Personally I like the idea of the Maker and Andraste because well I'm not sure entirely I try and remind myself during both the good and bad comments that Maker/Andraste are in fact fiction because in the end whatever they choose I will be able to avoid some semblance of personal strife. I also feel that certain things have pointed to the possibility of a deity of some nature, the Creators/Fen'Harel etc could very well be the Maker or vice versa though like you said it could very well be a higher being rather than a deity in our understanding/description of it.

Idk though is the Fade the afterlife? I mean have we come across mortal spirits? Well yes I mean I think so. During awakening there is that village but was that caused simply by magic and when the baroness was killed were they lost in the nether, idk it's interesting and if we could keep the discussion on that without getting off track or extra personal than I'd be fun bringing it up.

Hard to say. Andrastians go to the Maker's right hand, and if the Maker's in the Black City... then, I guess he is in the Fade.

I was listening this one the other day between Seb and Isabela.

Isabela: So, I've never understood why the Chantry says if you're good, you'll be taken up to the Maker's side.
Sebastian: Those who die with the sins cleansed from their souls will walk beside the Maker in eternity.
Isabela: That doesn't sound fun!
Isabela: If they really want people to be good, shouldn't they offer an afterlife with... lakes of wine and a dozen naked virgins?
Sebastian: Anyone who wants that will be going to the Void.
Isabela: Sounds like that's where all the good parties will be.

[Dreamlover2012]

Welllllll....we are having quite a civil conversation about this. It warms my heart because it reminds me that there IS still hope for humanity. You guys are awesome! And I can't gush enough of how glad I am I stumbled across this thread.

[R2s Muse]

littlenikki wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

Thanks all I appreciate the support and again I'm sorry for bringing it up. Maybe we should get Cullen/Carver in a box again to get stuff back on track I don't want to prolong this any longer than necessary.

I still only have one entry for a caption on that one! C'mon people, don't be shy 

Dunno if mine's in there... but it's all I got... "lyriumstick in a box." A little dirty... but so's the source material, I suppose.

[Dreamlover2012]

R2s Muse wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

As a caveat, I would love to talk about religion in DA. What are "the gods"? What is The Maker? Is this a deity as we understand the term? Or is it simply a higher being? Does it/Did it really exist? In a world infused with magic, it can be easy to confuse "magic" for "miracle" (i.e. "Andraste's" ashes). I guess religion is what the writers make of it, though they haven't really revealed much. Impossible to come to any definitive conclusion at this point, I think.

I do think many players who are Western (or Westernized) monotheists have a tendency to accept The Maker as a canon deity but yet discount the Dalish pantheon as mere mythology.

Ohh... I kind of want to write a paper on that xD

Personally I like the idea of the Maker and Andraste because well I'm not sure entirely I try and remind myself during both the good and bad comments that Maker/Andraste are in fact fiction because in the end whatever they choose I will be able to avoid some semblance of personal strife. I also feel that certain things have pointed to the possibility of a deity of some nature, the Creators/Fen'Harel etc could very well be the Maker or vice versa though like you said it could very well be a higher being rather than a deity in our understanding/description of it.

Idk though is the Fade the afterlife? I mean have we come across mortal spirits? Well yes I mean I think so. During awakening there is that village but was that caused simply by magic and when the baroness was killed were they lost in the nether, idk it's interesting and if we could keep the discussion on that without getting off track or extra personal than I'd be fun bringing it up.

Hard to say. Andrastians go to the Maker's right hand, and if the Maker's in the Black City... then, I guess he is in the Fade.

I was listening this one the other day between Seb and Isabela.

Isabela: So, I've never understood why the Chantry says if you're good, you'll be taken up to the Maker's side.
Sebastian: Those who die with the sins cleansed from their souls will walk beside the Maker in eternity.
Isabela: That doesn't sound fun!
Isabela: If they really want people to be good, shouldn't they offer an afterlife with... lakes of wine and a dozen naked virgins?
Sebastian: Anyone who wants that will be going to the Void.
Isabela: Sounds like that's where all the good parties will be.

I believe the Chant of Light says that the Maker left the Black City. I could be wrong though.

And LOL at Isabella!

I like when Seb and Fenris discuss the Maker. Haha

[thejellnuggz]

R2s Muse wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

As a caveat, I would love to talk about religion in DA. What are "the gods"? What is The Maker? Is this a deity as we understand the term? Or is it simply a higher being? Does it/Did it really exist? In a world infused with magic, it can be easy to confuse "magic" for "miracle" (i.e. "Andraste's" ashes). I guess religion is what the writers make of it, though they haven't really revealed much. Impossible to come to any definitive conclusion at this point, I think.

I do think many players who are Western (or Westernized) monotheists have a tendency to accept The Maker as a canon deity but yet discount the Dalish pantheon as mere mythology.

Ohh... I kind of want to write a paper on that xD

Personally I like the idea of the Maker and Andraste because well I'm not sure entirely I try and remind myself during both the good and bad comments that Maker/Andraste are in fact fiction because in the end whatever they choose I will be able to avoid some semblance of personal strife. I also feel that certain things have pointed to the possibility of a deity of some nature, the Creators/Fen'Harel etc could very well be the Maker or vice versa though like you said it could very well be a higher being rather than a deity in our understanding/description of it.

Idk though is the Fade the afterlife? I mean have we come across mortal spirits? Well yes I mean I think so. During awakening there is that village but was that caused simply by magic and when the baroness was killed were they lost in the nether, idk it's interesting and if we could keep the discussion on that without getting off track or extra personal than I'd be fun bringing it up.

Hard to say. Andrastians go to the Maker's right hand, and if the Maker's in the Black City... then, I guess he is in the Fade.

I was listening this one the other day between Seb and Isabela.

Isabela: So, I've never understood why the Chantry says if you're good, you'll be taken up to the Maker's side.
Sebastian: Those who die with the sins cleansed from their souls will walk beside the Maker in eternity.
Isabela: That doesn't sound fun!
Isabela: If they really want people to be good, shouldn't they offer an afterlife with... lakes of wine and a dozen naked virgins?
Sebastian: Anyone who wants that will be going to the Void.
Isabela: Sounds like that's where all the good parties will be.

I have to ask, what are Andrastians anyway? Are they just worshippers of Andraste or is it a nickname for people in a certain country, like "Fereldans" or "Orlesians"? I've never understood it. Wouldn't they just be priests or mothers or something if they worship Andraste? 

[Danny Boy 7]

Dreamlover2012 wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

As a caveat, I would love to talk about religion in DA. What are "the gods"? What is The Maker? Is this a deity as we understand the term? Or is it simply a higher being? Does it/Did it really exist? In a world infused with magic, it can be easy to confuse "magic" for "miracle" (i.e. "Andraste's" ashes). I guess religion is what the writers make of it, though they haven't really revealed much. Impossible to come to any definitive conclusion at this point, I think.

I do think many players who are Western (or Westernized) monotheists have a tendency to accept The Maker as a canon deity but yet discount the Dalish pantheon as mere mythology.

Ohh... I kind of want to write a paper on that xD

Actually, You are completely right. Andrastate's ashes COULD possibly be just really good healing magic.

As for the devs, I read a thread somewhere on here where David Gaider piped in about this type of a discussion. He explained the different viewpoints on the Maker (and Chantry), the Elves, and even the Dawrves. He never said any of them were wrong in their beliefs. I don't think Dragon Age is going to force any religious belief on us. (I.E. And then the clouds parted and the Maker himself set down on the world of Thedas and all before him believed...ect)

I DO like discussing the religion and different view points in Dragon Age, and if you wrote a paper on it, I'd love to read it!

I'd read it. As my last comment on the subject (just so we can get back to Cullen loving:wizard:) I like that they don't say one viewpoint is right or not, I do wish that the Chantry would get a boot in the arse though or reform at least because it has produced some good peeps and in some cases done good actsl like that sister in Lothering who tries to help the people after that merchant tries to bleed them for cash or when Dorothea helps Leliana escape from the dungeon in Denerim.

[R2s Muse]

thejellnuggz wrote...

I have to ask, what are Andrastians anyway? Are they just worshippers of Andraste or is it a nickname for people in a certain country, like "Fereldans" or "Orlesians"? I've never understood it. Wouldn't they just be priests or mothers or something if they worship Andraste? 

No, Andrastian is like Christian, as in those who believe in the Maker and his bride Andraste. Which is most of Thedas, outside of the elves and Qunari [and dwarves! duh]. Not every Andrastian is in the service of the Chantry as an initiate -- i.e. not all priests or mothers.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 04 décembre 2012 - 08:24 .

[berelinde]

Danny Boy, you are a rare person. I've said it before privately, but it's worth repeating. Regardless of your personal beliefs, you respect that others are entitled to to theirs and you never make them feel uncomfortable or defensive about expressing an opinion that doesn't agree with yours. That is what true tolerance is all about. Sadly, not everyone understands that.

Many people seem to have this need to feel superior. It isn't enough to know in their hearts that their beliefs are valid. They seem to need to have everybody else acknowledge it, too. They need to be *seen* as being in the right. Ultimately, though, the real truth is what's inside. Quiet, non-judgmental faith presents a more convincing argument than public fanaticism.

And it is frustrating, seeing people who profess to share your faith behave like jerks in a public forum. You want to scream "You aren't helping!" and "We aren't all like that, honest!" but it isn't necessary. Readers can spot a troll, but they can also tell when someone is genuine. No one plays fanfares for moderates, but that doesn't mean they aren't valued.

Hugs!

[CuriousArtemis]

Not gonna get you a sylvanwood ring.
That kinda gift don't mean aaaanything!
Not gonna take you to a place so far.
Girl you gotta know you're my shiiining star!
Not buyin you a house in the Anderfels.
A girl like you needs sooomething real!
Wanna get you something frooom the heart
(Something special)
...It's my dick in a box!

[R2s Muse]

Dreamlover2012 wrote...

I believe the Chant of Light says that the Maker left the Black City. I could be wrong though.

True, He has turned away from his children... but I dunno where he's supposed to actually "reside." They do talk about heaven... but I don't where that lies, erm, geographically, as it were.

[Dreamlover2012]

Dreamlover2012 wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

As a caveat, I would love to talk about religion in DA. What are "the gods"? What is The Maker? Is this a deity as we understand the term? Or is it simply a higher being? Does it/Did it really exist? In a world infused with magic, it can be easy to confuse "magic" for "miracle" (i.e. "Andraste's" ashes). I guess religion is what the writers make of it, though they haven't really revealed much. Impossible to come to any definitive conclusion at this point, I think.

I do think many players who are Western (or Westernized) monotheists have a tendency to accept The Maker as a canon deity but yet discount the Dalish pantheon as mere mythology.

Ohh... I kind of want to write a paper on that xD

Personally I like the idea of the Maker and Andraste because well I'm not sure entirely I try and remind myself during both the good and bad comments that Maker/Andraste are in fact fiction because in the end whatever they choose I will be able to avoid some semblance of personal strife. I also feel that certain things have pointed to the possibility of a deity of some nature, the Creators/Fen'Harel etc could very well be the Maker or vice versa though like you said it could very well be a higher being rather than a deity in our understanding/description of it.

Idk though is the Fade the afterlife? I mean have we come across mortal spirits? Well yes I mean I think so. During awakening there is that village but was that caused simply by magic and when the baroness was killed were they lost in the nether, idk it's interesting and if we could keep the discussion on that without getting off track or extra personal than I'd be fun bringing it up.

Hard to say. Andrastians go to the Maker's right hand, and if the Maker's in the Black City... then, I guess he is in the Fade.

I was listening this one the other day between Seb and Isabela.

Isabela: So, I've never understood why the Chantry says if you're good, you'll be taken up to the Maker's side.
Sebastian: Those who die with the sins cleansed from their souls will walk beside the Maker in eternity.
Isabela: That doesn't sound fun!
Isabela: If they really want people to be good, shouldn't they offer an afterlife with... lakes of wine and a dozen naked virgins?
Sebastian: Anyone who wants that will be going to the Void.
Isabela: Sounds like that's where all the good parties will be.

I believe the Chant of Light says that the Maker left the Black City. I could be wrong though.

And LOL at Isabella!

I like when Seb and Fenris discuss the Maker. Haha

Here it is.

[R2s Muse]

motomotogirl wrote...

Not gonna get you a sylvanwood ring.
That kinda gift don't mean aaaanything!
Not gonna take you to a place so far.
Girl you gotta know you're my shiiining star!
Not buyin you a house in the Anderfels.
A girl like you needs sooomething real!
Wanna get you something frooom the heart
(Something special)
...It's my dick in a box!

Oh. My. Maker. LMVAO Dr. Moto knows her SNL literature...

[Dreamlover2012]

motomotogirl wrote...

Not gonna get you a sylvanwood ring.
That kinda gift don't mean aaaanything!
Not gonna take you to a place so far.
Girl you gotta know you're my shiiining star!
Not buyin you a house in the Anderfels.
A girl like you needs sooomething real!
Wanna get you something frooom the heart
(Something special)
...It's my dick in a box!

^This....is genuis!

[Newschmoo]

motomotogirl wrote...

Not gonna get you a sylvanwood ring.
That kinda gift don't mean aaaanything!
Not gonna take you to a place so far.
Girl you gotta know you're my shiiining star!
Not buyin you a house in the Anderfels.
A girl like you needs sooomething real!
Wanna get you something frooom the heart
(Something special)
...It's my dick in a box!

You've got my vote!