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[berelinde]

Danny, prior to the Circle, Ferelden had a tradition of mages living among their kin. They did it the way the Chasind do, and it worked out just fine. When the Tevinters came, they brought an alien culture, but it was never embraced by commoners. In actual fact, it was rejected heartily. The Chantry model was based on the Tevinter model, but with clergy taking the place of magisters. Ferelden's cultural heritage is not a magocracy, nor any kind of true totalitarian government. It's more of a confederacy or constitutional monarchy. That's what would return if the Chantry were no more, not Tevinter-esque mage domination. Look at Honnleath. Wilhelm, Maric's court magician, settled there and raised his family. His son Mathias, a mage himself (although not a highly-trained or highly-gifted one, since it seems that all he can do is raise and lower the barrier at will), was hardly feared by the villagers. In fact, when darkspawn threatened the village, most of the inhabitants fled to his cellar for protection. There's probably considerable difference between what the Chantry says will happen if mages are allowed freedom and what will actually occur. It's only natural when you consider how much income the Chantry lost when the Circles disbanded. They relied on the Tranquil and formari for much of their wealth. We have to consider *all* the existing in-game models of apostates living in society, not just those who turn into abominations to provide experience points for our heroes.

Anyway, sorry for going off on a tangent.

[CuriousArtemis]

R2s Muse wrote...

I do wonder how they'll deal with Anders's fate. I doubt they'll have any convenient resurrections this time around (crosses fingers) but if he lived, do you think we'll see him or just hear about him?

I hope so... I'll probably input one of my canon Hawke's first, but if I do encounter Anders, I'll be inputting an Anders romance next go-round!!

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...

I do wonder how they'll deal with Anders's fate. I doubt they'll have any convenient resurrections this time around (crosses fingers) but if he lived, do you think we'll see him or just hear about him?

We may get a cameo, but I kinda hope that we don't. I'm fine with the knowledge that he and Hawke are off doing rebellious things together. Mostly, I'm afraid that whatever in-game appearance he makes will be poisoned by player hate.

[CuriousArtemis]

berelinde wrote...

Danny, prior to the Circle, Ferelden had a tradition of mages living among their kin. They did it the way the Chasind do, and it worked out just fine. When the Tevinters came, they brought an alien culture, but it was never embraced by commoners. In actual fact, it was rejected heartily. The Chantry model was based on the Tevinter model, but with clergy taking the place of magisters. Ferelden's cultural heritage is not a magocracy, nor any kind of true totalitarian government. It's more of a confederacy or constitutional monarchy. That's what would return if the Chantry were no more, not Tevinter-esque mage domination. Look at Honnleath. Wilhelm, Maric's court magician, settled there and raised his family. His son Mathias, a mage himself (although not a highly-trained or highly-gifted one, since it seems that all he can do is raise and lower the barrier at will), was hardly feared by the villagers. In fact, when darkspawn threatened the village, most of the inhabitants fled to his cellar for protection. There's probably considerable difference between what the Chantry says will happen if mages are allowed freedom and what will actually occur. It's only natural when you consider how much income the Chantry lost when the Circles disbanded. They relied on the Tranquil and formari for much of their wealth. We have to consider *all* the existing in-game models of apostates living in society, not just those who turn into abominations to provide experience points for our heroes.

Anyway, sorry for going off on a tangent.

Well said!!   It's astonishing and quite disturbing to see people on this forum advocating inprisonment of fellow human beings, even if they are fictional people!

[R2s Muse]

LOL I'm still diggin' on the Hogwarts model, but indeed, mage!Hawke herself is a good example of how mages can just... abide. LOL Even Cullen accepts that, since he doesn't seem to be ravening to throw her in the Circle at every moment. This of course is also a weakness in gameplay... but still sorta works in my headcanon.

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...

LOL I'm still diggin' on the Hogwarts model, but indeed, mage!Hawke herself is a good example of how mages can just... abide. LOL Even Cullen accepts that, since he doesn't seem to be ravening to throw her in the Circle at every moment. This of course is also a weakness in gameplay... but still sorta works in my headcanon.

Tobias, the mage Hawke goes to during Carver's finale to the Birthright quest, said that templars were once encouraged to exercise discretion, even if it meant unorthodox leniency. Maybe Cullen, like Carrot of the Ankh-Morpork City Guard, is using an old copy of the manual.

[CuriousArtemis]

R2s Muse wrote...

LOL I'm still diggin' on the Hogwarts model, but indeed, mage!Hawke herself is a good example of how mages can just... abide. LOL Even Cullen accepts that, since he doesn't seem to be ravening to throw her in the Circle at every moment. This of course is also a weakness in gameplay... but still sorta works in my headcanon.

I also agree that Hogwarts is the answer!

[LolaLei]

Berelinde: it's weird to think that the Templars were like that in Malcolm Hawke's time, which wasn't all that long ago really. I guess it goes to show how drastically things changed once Meredith took over.

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LOL I'm still diggin' on the Hogwarts model, but indeed, mage!Hawke herself is a good example of how mages can just... abide. LOL Even Cullen accepts that, since he doesn't seem to be ravening to throw her in the Circle at every moment. This of course is also a weakness in gameplay... but still sorta works in my headcanon.

Tobias, the mage Hawke goes to during Carver's finale to the Birthright quest, said that templars were once encouraged to exercise discretion, even if it meant unorthodox leniency. Maybe Cullen, like Carrot of the Ankh-Morpork City Guard, is using an old copy of the manual.

LMAO /headcanon accepted

...

[berelinde]

motomotogirl wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LOL I'm still diggin' on the Hogwarts model, but indeed, mage!Hawke herself is a good example of how mages can just... abide. LOL Even Cullen accepts that, since he doesn't seem to be ravening to throw her in the Circle at every moment. This of course is also a weakness in gameplay... but still sorta works in my headcanon.

I also agree that Hogwarts is the answer!

Thedas already has it. Unfortunately, the headmaster is Professor Umbridge and they're using dementors as hall monitors. 

[berelinde]

I killed the thread.

[meanieweenie]

Maybe this will help:
http://www.jibjab.co...BDpjKq5Dn4aslXD

Modifié par meanieweenie, 06 décembre 2012 - 12:18 .

[Jinx]

Hahah that was funny....But now I have that song stuck in my head:pinched:

Modifié par cacey lee, 06 décembre 2012 - 12:24 .

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LOL I'm still diggin' on the Hogwarts model, but indeed, mage!Hawke herself is a good example of how mages can just... abide. LOL Even Cullen accepts that, since he doesn't seem to be ravening to throw her in the Circle at every moment. This of course is also a weakness in gameplay... but still sorta works in my headcanon.

I also agree that Hogwarts is the answer!

Thedas already has it. Unfortunately, the headmaster is Professor Umbridge and they're using dementors as hall monitors. 

LOL That's the Kirkwall version all right, but also with no summers off and no trips to Hogsmeade.

[berelinde]

meanieweenie wrote...

Maybe this will help:
http://www.jibjab.co...BDpjKq5Dn4aslXD

That was frickin' hilarious!

Pity about the headline: "Cullen blows up... grass... at 0:43! Thousands of innocents killed!:o"

Seriously, though, that was funny! Please tell me that you didn't have to manually place Cullen's head on every frame...

[meanieweenie]

berelinde wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

Maybe this will help:
http://www.jibjab.co...BDpjKq5Dn4aslXD

That was frickin' hilarious!

Pity about the headline: "Cullen blows up... grass... at 0:43! Thousands of innocents killed!:o"

Seriously, though, that was funny! Please tell me that you didn't have to manually place Cullen's head on every frame...

Nope! JibJab let's you grab any pic you've got then center the face and they do all the work. I'm soooo not savvy enough to do that! lol It's a fun site to play around with when you're bored.

[berelinde]

Way cool! Way, way cool!

[littlenikki]

Just gonna drop this off real quick like...

[Danny Boy 7]

berelinde wrote...

Danny, prior to the Circle, Ferelden had a tradition of mages living among their kin. They did it the way the Chasind do, and it worked out just fine. When the Tevinters came, they brought an alien culture, but it was never embraced by commoners. In actual fact, it was rejected heartily. The Chantry model was based on the Tevinter model, but with clergy taking the place of magisters. Ferelden's cultural heritage is not a magocracy, nor any kind of true totalitarian government. It's more of a confederacy or constitutional monarchy. That's what would return if the Chantry were no more, not Tevinter-esque mage domination. Look at Honnleath. Wilhelm, Maric's court magician, settled there and raised his family. His son Mathias, a mage himself (although not a highly-trained or highly-gifted one, since it seems that all he can do is raise and lower the barrier at will), was hardly feared by the villagers. In fact, when darkspawn threatened the village, most of the inhabitants fled to his cellar for protection. There's probably considerable difference between what the Chantry says will happen if mages are allowed freedom and what will actually occur. It's only natural when you consider how much income the Chantry lost when the Circles disbanded. They relied on the Tranquil and formari for much of their wealth. We have to consider *all* the existing in-game models of apostates living in society, not just those who turn into abominations to provide experience points for our heroes.

Anyway, sorry for going off on a tangent.

No prob I can handle being put in my place . Although I sort of disagree about the clergy having power, they weild a lot of influence no doubt but the countries individual rulers still rule their respective countries and in the end it's their choice to answer the Chantry's call to Exalted Marches. I mean look at Alistair and even Maric during the rebellion. 

Ferelden has always sort of been the exception rather than the rule however I mean depending on whether or not Andraste was a mage or not withstanding there isn't any proof that mages took part in the rebellions since the invasion by the Tevinters didn't effect them except promoting them to higher roles in society. Though I admit there isn't any proof to the opposite either.

The way I considered Wilhelm is sort of how slaves viewed Washington. he was a hero for most colonists and some even fought under his command during the Revolutionary War however he was a huge proponent for slavery feeling that it wasn't worth the effort to free those very same slaves after the war. The people who would normally mistrust a mage or a slaver trust/respect him enough that they give him the benefit of a doubt and do the same for his children especially if there aren't any "incidents" in that time. Had Mathias say, killed somebody by mistake with his magic or set fire to an area you can bet he would have been turned out sooner or later because that line of trust is very thin. We got to think that even though they fled to his basement that some people simply went there out of a greater fear of the darkspawn. They were the immediate threat after all. 

No doubt what the Chantry says could be the complete opposite of what happens were mages freed which is why I suggested the gun control approach. However the threat of another Imperium even if it's not one that's...likely is a dangerous one and one that should not be underestimated. You're also right that the loss of Circles likely damaged the Chantry's financial state, however the Circles of Magi didn't come into existence until after the Nevarran Accords which were created in order to stop the Inquisition from their murderous spree, so while the circles were profitable to be sure they certainly were'nt meant to be and during Asunder the Divine wasn't actually worried about the money flow, so while I'm sure there are those who make a profit from the formari it isn't exactly at the forefront in the minds of the leadership. But I admit that it shouldn't be left out in any "debates" er discussions or when anyone is making up their minds on the whole circle issue.

I do agree that I might be excluding some mages and I apologize because that's not my intent. We have our good mages, more than I'm likely making it sound like, but we also have mages who might not be murderous but aren't afraid to use their magic to mind control someone, use magic to threaten someone or do just about anything a non-magical person would do but with magic which in the end is the overall issue. How do you protect the non-magical people and even the "good" mages from those who are willing to cross that line.

Do I think the world would be better if mages were free? No. Do I think it'd be worse? No. I think ultimately in the end they are people, but super powered people whose threat to others is twice as worse than that of a normal person. I don't condone what the Chantry does, they enslave people in their own way, but I don't think it's out of some malicious intent, it's out of fear and an understandable if misguided one. I don't think that gives them the right to treat mages like garbage but were I in a similar situation I can't say that I'd have thought of a better solution...at the time. Hindsight is 20/20 after all.

I hope this didn't sound combative btw:? as it's not my intent I just think that our outside view of the situation makes it easy to criticise but were I actually living in Thedas I can't say that I wouldn't support the Circles out of fear. I mean even today we tend to turn a blind eye to abuse/lawlessness in prisons because how do you protect all those people while being understaffed, underfunded etc.

[Danny Boy 7]

motomotogirl wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Danny, prior to the Circle, Ferelden had a tradition of mages living among their kin. They did it the way the Chasind do, and it worked out just fine. When the Tevinters came, they brought an alien culture, but it was never embraced by commoners. In actual fact, it was rejected heartily. The Chantry model was based on the Tevinter model, but with clergy taking the place of magisters. Ferelden's cultural heritage is not a magocracy, nor any kind of true totalitarian government. It's more of a confederacy or constitutional monarchy. That's what would return if the Chantry were no more, not Tevinter-esque mage domination. Look at Honnleath. Wilhelm, Maric's court magician, settled there and raised his family. His son Mathias, a mage himself (although not a highly-trained or highly-gifted one, since it seems that all he can do is raise and lower the barrier at will), was hardly feared by the villagers. In fact, when darkspawn threatened the village, most of the inhabitants fled to his cellar for protection. There's probably considerable difference between what the Chantry says will happen if mages are allowed freedom and what will actually occur. It's only natural when you consider how much income the Chantry lost when the Circles disbanded. They relied on the Tranquil and formari for much of their wealth. We have to consider *all* the existing in-game models of apostates living in society, not just those who turn into abominations to provide experience points for our heroes.

Anyway, sorry for going off on a tangent.

Well said!!   It's astonishing and quite disturbing to see people on this forum advocating inprisonment of fellow human beings, even if they are fictional people!

Ouch Moto:blush:

[Danny Boy 7]

littlenikki wrote...

Just gonna drop this off real quick like...

Woo!!

[meanieweenie]

lmvo! Well done!

[Jinx]

Lmao LittleNikkie

[LolaLei]

littlenikki wrote...

Just gonna drop this off real quick like...

LMFAO! <3