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The Official Knight-Captain Cullen Discussion thread 2.0.


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#32901
LolaLei

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R2s Muse wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

I've just been playing DA2 and decided paid a visit to the Gallows (to perv) which of course, activated Cullen's dialogue about remembering Amell. Whilst I listened to him speak I noticed something interesting... It's probably just wishful thinking or me looking into things that aren't there, but for the sake of speculative conversation I'm gonna share my thoughts.

Firstly, let's that a look at the dialogue in question: 



Cullen: "I knew an Amell once, she was a very special woman. Never met her like again."

It's clear that this dialogue was added in as a nod to anyone who imported the Fem!Amell Warden and to suggest that his seemingly hard line "no compromise for mages" attitude was starting to soften. However, I got the impression that there was more to that line than intially meets the eye.

Cullen could've simply said "I knew an Amell once, she was a very special woman" and left it at that, but instead he goes on to say "Never met her like again". This got me thinking, could Cullen be hinting towards the fact that he's interested in meeting that "special someone" but has yet to find anyone else who has come close to the caliber of person that Amell (or Surana) was? Is it a subtle indication that he's open to the idea of a relationship even if, when the time comes, he finds himself conflicted at first due to the "angst" that Gaider predicts in his future?

Perhaps it's a hint that he'll be a love interest in DA3? Since he's never met her like again- until the new DA3 protagonist came along to stir up all those emotions that he thought he'd never feel again.

Whenever I've listened to that dialogue in the past I've always felt that he seemed kinda disappointed that he'd never met anyone else that has compared to or surpassed the feelings he'd had for Amell (or Surana), but until now I'd never realised that there could be more to his words than a simple wistful remembrance.

Your thoughts?

Hmmm... this line sounds awfully final to me. "Never met her like again" sounds like his mind is set that there is no other. Period. End of story. Like he's closed himself off from the very possibility that perhaps one day there could be another. Putting it into perspective however, it would be an expected reaction. Sort of like after a night of hard drinking.... then you wake up feeling terrible the next day saying "I'm never going to drink again!" and you honestly mean it at the time. If one has their heart broken they'll likely feel that "I'll never love again" .

Cullen just needs our DA3 selves to show him the light. Image IPB

meanie, this is how I've always interpreted it, too... which has bugged me! LOL I've never thought about it how Lola suggested. Hmm... interesting. Could be that he's "saving" himself for someone as amazing as Amell was, indicating that he's open for business...? Or that, erm, Hawke definitely doesn't fit the bill..? I dunno. Have to think more (*hears her Hawke/Cullen OTP starting to shatter around her*).


Wow, I totally never thought of it like that! I mean, we've all done it lol. That being said, if he has indeed convinced himself that he'll never love/lust again, or maybe not allow himself to, then that would certainly be a cause of "angst" if/when he finds himself falling for the DA3 protagonist.

If your theory is correct then I'd say that's an even bigger foreshadowing that he'll be a love interest because it's dramatic and who doesn't love that LOL!

#32902
Shades_Of_Pale

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littlenikki wrote...

I don't know if I'm just feeling pessimistic, but that line just sounds to me like he's just saying that he remembers Amell fondly. As for being "in love" with Amell, I wouldn't even go so far to say that. He very obviously had a crush, but I think having matured, he would have realized it was just a young infatuation, and not so much his "one true love" I highly doubt it's his way of saying that he's closed himself off from love forever.

Aside from passing conversation, I don't think that Amell and Cullen could have had many moments to get to know each other enough to fall in love. I think that might be a case of fanfiction warping our minds there

I'm a bit grumps today, so don't mind me :whistle:

Having a bad day? :(*hugs*

Modifié par Shades_Of_Pale, 18 janvier 2013 - 09:49 .


#32903
LolaLei

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littlenikki wrote...

I don't know if I'm just feeling pessimistic, but that line just sounds to me like he's just saying that he remembers Amell fondly. As for being "in love" with Amell, I wouldn't even go so far to say that. He very obviously had a crush, but I think having matured, he would have realized it was just a young infatuation, and not so much his "one true love" I highly doubt it's his way of saying that he's closed himself off from love forever.

Aside from passing conversation, I don't think that Amell and Cullen could have had many moments to get to know each other enough to fall in love. I think that might be a case of fanfiction warping our minds there

I'm a bit grumps today, so don't mind me :whistle:


I agree. From the way he spoke in DA:O it was as though he'd spoken to her maybe once or twice (if at all) and the rest was just him observing from afar. So naturally, how could he know whether he was truly in love or just crushing... which makes me think that there has been no other lovers or crushes before or since Amell/Surana otherwise he probably wouldn't be thinking quite so wistfully about her in DA2 lol.

#32904
littlenikki

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Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

I don't know if I'm just feeling pessimistic, but that line just sounds to me like he's just saying that he remembers Amell fondly. As for being "in love" with Amell, I wouldn't even go so far to say that. He very obviously had a crush, but I think having matured, he would have realized it was just a young infatuation, and not so much his "one true love" I highly doubt it's his way of saying that he's closed himself off from love forever.

Aside from passing conversation, I don't think that Amell and Cullen could have had many moments to get to know each other enough to fall in love. I think that might be a case of fanfiction warping our minds there

I'm a bit grumps today, so don't mind me :whistle:

Having a bad day? *hugs*


Nah, just woke up w/ a bad headache and trying to get over a cold. DA2 is cheering me up though, finally made it past Act I. Such a pain with all those sidequests!

#32905
littlenikki

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LolaLei wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

I don't know if I'm just feeling pessimistic, but that line just sounds to me like he's just saying that he remembers Amell fondly. As for being "in love" with Amell, I wouldn't even go so far to say that. He very obviously had a crush, but I think having matured, he would have realized it was just a young infatuation, and not so much his "one true love" I highly doubt it's his way of saying that he's closed himself off from love forever.

Aside from passing conversation, I don't think that Amell and Cullen could have had many moments to get to know each other enough to fall in love. I think that might be a case of fanfiction warping our minds there

I'm a bit grumps today, so don't mind me :whistle:


I agree. From the way he spoke in DA:O it was as though he'd spoken to her maybe once or twice (if at all) and the rest was just him observing from afar. So naturally, how could he know whether he was truly in love or just crushing... which makes me think that there has been no other lovers or crushes before or since Amell/Surana otherwise he probably wouldn't be thinking quite so wistfully about her in DA2 lol.



What if he had a crush on Meredith!?! :blink:

#32906
LolaLei

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littlenikki wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

littlenikki wrote...

I don't know if I'm just feeling pessimistic, but that line just sounds to me like he's just saying that he remembers Amell fondly. As for being "in love" with Amell, I wouldn't even go so far to say that. He very obviously had a crush, but I think having matured, he would have realized it was just a young infatuation, and not so much his "one true love" I highly doubt it's his way of saying that he's closed himself off from love forever.

Aside from passing conversation, I don't think that Amell and Cullen could have had many moments to get to know each other enough to fall in love. I think that might be a case of fanfiction warping our minds there

I'm a bit grumps today, so don't mind me :whistle:


I agree. From the way he spoke in DA:O it was as though he'd spoken to her maybe once or twice (if at all) and the rest was just him observing from afar. So naturally, how could he know whether he was truly in love or just crushing... which makes me think that there has been no other lovers or crushes before or since Amell/Surana otherwise he probably wouldn't be thinking quite so wistfully about her in DA2 lol.



What if he had a crush on Meredith!?! :blink:


Well, she was attractive for a crazy old bird! :lol:

#32907
littlenikki

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Poor Cullen, if that were the case. Allowing himself to have feelings for another woman, just to have her go bat-sh*t crazy and forcing him to kill her.

#32908
LolaLei

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littlenikki wrote...

Poor Cullen, if that were the case. Allowing himself to have feelings for another woman, just to have her go bat-sh*t crazy and forcing him to kill her.


LOL! I dunno why, but I find that incredibly funny! :lol:

#32909
littlenikki

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 More Twitter teasing...

John Epler: "Honestly, the more time I spend on DA3, the more I realize that this is the project I've always wanted to work on."

Chris Priestly: "Haven't seen DA3 since before my vacation mid-Nov. WOW. The improvements and work done is impressive. Cant say much yet (sorry) but DRAGONS!"

Modifié par littlenikki, 18 janvier 2013 - 09:59 .


#32910
LolaLei

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Ok, so going on the theory that Cullen has decided to close himself off from relationships due to never finding anyone like Amell again/not being able to have Amell. I'd seriously find it kinda odd.

I mean, sure if they'd actually had a relationship or secret affair then I could understand him holding a torch for her, but from the way the female mage origin played out, it seems that he's hardly ever spoken to her at all. For example, if you say:

Amell/Surana: "I knew I would not fail my harrowing"

He'll reply with something like this (I can't find the exact line unfortunately):

Cullen: "You've always been so confident.. uh.. o-or so I've heard"

Even if she tried to seduce him that's only indicative that your character wanted to get laid or be a c o c k tease (from the devs standpoint).

So it would certainly be a bit silly of him to cut himself off from future relationships for not being over a mage that he never really even knew beyond observing her, who is now either dead or in a relationship with Alistair, Zevran or Leliana. However, if he's shut himself off from future romances due to PTSD, head mess and guilt then that would totally make more sense.

Modifié par LolaLei, 18 janvier 2013 - 10:22 .


#32911
LolaLei

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littlenikki wrote...

 More Twitter teasing...

John Epler: "Honestly, the more time I spend on DA3, the more I realize that this is the project I've always wanted to work on."

Chris Priestly: "Haven't seen DA3 since before my vacation mid-Nov. WOW. The improvements and work done is impressive. Cant say much yet (sorry) but DRAGONS!"


Oooo both good signs! I starting to wonder if DA3 is going to be even better than DA:O.

#32912
LolaLei

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Tweet:

Jason Hill: "Team meeting update video was shiny, we have a gem on our hands #DA3"

#32913
Shades_Of_Pale

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We should have a Sprint Review soon shouldn't we?

#32914
CuriousArtemis

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LolaLei wrote...

It's clear that this dialogue was added in as a nod to anyone who imported the Fem!Amell Warden and to suggest that his seemingly hard line "no compromise for mages" attitude was starting to soften. However, I got the impression that there was more to that line than intially meets the eye.

Cullen could've simply said "I knew an Amell once, she was a very special woman" and left it at that, but instead he goes on to say "Never met her like again". This got me thinking, could Cullen be hinting towards the fact that he's interested in meeting that "special someone" but has yet to find anyone else who has come close to the caliber of person that Amell (or Surana) was? Is it a subtle indication that he's open to the idea of a relationship even if, when the time comes, he finds himself conflicted at first due to the "angst" that Gaider predicts in his future?

Perhaps it's a hint that he'll be a love interest in DA3? Since he's never met her like again- until the new DA3 protagonist came along to stir up all those emotions that he thought he'd never feel again.

Whenever I've listened to that dialogue in the past I've always felt that he seemed kinda disappointed that he'd never met anyone else that has compared to or surpassed the feelings he'd had for Amell (or Surana), but until now I'd never realised that there could be more to his words than a simple wistful remembrance.

Your thoughts?


I have to say that since this dialogue is only heard by a small fraction of players (players who imported a FemAmell DA:O playthrough) that it is not remotely important and has little to do with his character and his future prospects in DA3. He never says that to ANY of my Hawke's; why, because I've never played nor imported a FemAmell, so Cullen in my games never knew an Amell and thus never loved her... because she did not exist.

#32915
LolaLei

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Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

We should have a Sprint Review soon shouldn't we?


Cam said it'll be in a few weeks. So probably early February. :pinched:

#32916
LolaLei

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motomotogirl wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

It's clear that this dialogue was added in as a nod to anyone who imported the Fem!Amell Warden and to suggest that his seemingly hard line "no compromise for mages" attitude was starting to soften. However, I got the impression that there was more to that line than intially meets the eye.

Cullen could've simply said "I knew an Amell once, she was a very special woman" and left it at that, but instead he goes on to say "Never met her like again". This got me thinking, could Cullen be hinting towards the fact that he's interested in meeting that "special someone" but has yet to find anyone else who has come close to the caliber of person that Amell (or Surana) was? Is it a subtle indication that he's open to the idea of a relationship even if, when the time comes, he finds himself conflicted at first due to the "angst" that Gaider predicts in his future?

Perhaps it's a hint that he'll be a love interest in DA3? Since he's never met her like again- until the new DA3 protagonist came along to stir up all those emotions that he thought he'd never feel again.

Whenever I've listened to that dialogue in the past I've always felt that he seemed kinda disappointed that he'd never met anyone else that has compared to or surpassed the feelings he'd had for Amell (or Surana), but until now I'd never realised that there could be more to his words than a simple wistful remembrance.

Your thoughts?


I have to say that since this dialogue is only heard by a small fraction of players (players who imported a FemAmell DA:O playthrough) that it is not remotely important and has little to do with his character and his future prospects in DA3. He never says that to ANY of my Hawke's; why, because I've never played nor imported a FemAmell, so Cullen in my games never knew an Amell and thus never loved her... because she did not exist.


That's something I wonder actually. All the potential Warden's supposedly existed regardless of whether you played as them or not, it's just that the ones you don't pick die. So if that's the case, was he in love with Surana, Amell, both or neither? LOL.

But yeah, you have a point. Although, they were quick enough to retcon a dead Leliana (if you killed her), yet she's still alive in DA2 regardless, so clearly BioWare don't mind retconning or changing the rules to suit. So I guess if they wanted to use his love for whoever (be it Amell or Surana even if you didn't play as them) they'd likely do it lol.

#32917
Shades_Of_Pale

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LolaLei wrote...

Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

We should have a Sprint Review soon shouldn't we?


Cam said it'll be in a few weeks. So probably early February. :pinched:


Bahhh, well at least they may have a lot more to vaguely share then, right?

#32918
LolaLei

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Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

We should have a Sprint Review soon shouldn't we?


Cam said it'll be in a few weeks. So probably early February. :pinched:


Bahhh, well at least they may have a lot more to vaguely share then, right?


I can't think of anything else they could vaguely share in sprint tweets that wouldn't sound like the stuff they've already hinted at. :lol:

#32919
meanieweenie

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motomotogirl wrote...

I have to say that since this dialogue is only heard by a small fraction of players (players who imported a FemAmell DA:O playthrough) that it is not remotely important and has little to do with his character and his future prospects in DA3. He never says that to ANY of my Hawke's; why, because I've never played nor imported a FemAmell, so Cullen in my games never knew an Amell and thus never loved her... because she did not exist.

I didn't have an Amell import either but it's fun to speculate. It's not like we've had much to dissect anyway.

Here's the other thought I had in that vein: If Cullen did only know her in passing (or creepily skulking) with sparse conversation, then how would he know she was that fine a person? What if she had her 'good girl' pants on in public but was a high maintenance pain in the tuckus and up to no good in private?Image IPB

#32920
Shades_Of_Pale

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LolaLei wrote...

Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

We should have a Sprint Review soon shouldn't we?


Cam said it'll be in a few weeks. So probably early February. :pinched:


Bahhh, well at least they may have a lot more to vaguely share then, right?


I can't think of anything else they could vaguely share in sprint tweets that wouldn't sound like the stuff they've already hinted at. :lol:



"Sexy curly haired templar looks oddly familiar, and where's his pants?"
I want to see a tweet like this lol :3

#32921
CuriousArtemis

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LolaLei wrote...

That's something I wonder actually. All the potential Warden's supposedly existed regardless of whether you played as them or not, it's just that the ones you don't pick die. So if that's the case, was he in love with Surana, Amell, both or neither? LOL.


Are you sure about that? If you don't import a Mahariel, Merrill mentions only Tamlen being involved with the mirror. Mahariel is never mentioned. I don't believe this person exists unless you import him/her. Same goes for Amell, Surana, etc. And even if they all DID exist, is Amell male or female? Surana? What if both are male? So Cullen never had his crush. 

LolaLei wrote...But yeah, you have a point. Although, they were quick enough to retcon a dead Leliana (if you killed her), yet she's still alive in DA2 regardless, so clearly BioWare don't mind retconning or changing the rules to suit. So I guess if they wanted to use his love for whoever (be it Amell or Surana even if you didn't play as them) they'd likely do it lol.


I have to be honest; it would really upset me if Cullen's love for Amell/Surana were made canon. It would feel like the writers were validating someone else's playthrough. That's not how I played my game; that's not how things panned out in MY game. You know? But you're right; they brought a potentially dead Leliana back to life. Same for Anders (if you let him die in Awakening). Have a feeling the characters Wynne and Sten will also be canon (if the comics and the book are anything to go by). 

But I just absolutely do not want DA3!Cullen's personality and romance to be shaped by an experience I didn't personally import! Yeah I'm sure it's obvious at this point, but I reeeeally hate Cullen x Amell lol

Modifié par motomotogirl, 18 janvier 2013 - 11:02 .


#32922
LolaLei

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meanieweenie wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

I have to say that since this dialogue is only heard by a small fraction of players (players who imported a FemAmell DA:O playthrough) that it is not remotely important and has little to do with his character and his future prospects in DA3. He never says that to ANY of my Hawke's; why, because I've never played nor imported a FemAmell, so Cullen in my games never knew an Amell and thus never loved her... because she did not exist.

I didn't have an Amell import either but it's fun to speculate. It's not like we've had much to dissect anyway.

Here's the other thought I had in that vein: If Cullen did only know her in passing (or creepily skulking) with sparse conversation, then how would he know she was that fine a person? What if she had her 'good girl' pants on in public but was a high maintenance pain in the tuckus and up to no good in private?Image IPB


Exactly!

He's only going on what he's "seen" of her. Some peoples female Amell's were nymphomaniacs or complete b!tches stabbing everything in sight. He's looking back with rose tinted glasses (unless he has a thing for bad girls LOL!) But anyway, that's why it would be stupid for him to still be holding a torch for her 13/14 years later, especially if he refuses to romance the protagonist or whoever because of it.

#32923
Shades_Of_Pale

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meanieweenie wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

I have to say that since this dialogue is only heard by a small fraction of players (players who imported a FemAmell DA:O playthrough) that it is not remotely important and has little to do with his character and his future prospects in DA3. He never says that to ANY of my Hawke's; why, because I've never played nor imported a FemAmell, so Cullen in my games never knew an Amell and thus never loved her... because she did not exist.

I didn't have an Amell import either but it's fun to speculate. It's not like we've had much to dissect anyway.

Here's the other thought I had in that vein: If Cullen did only know her in passing (or creepily skulking) with sparse conversation, then how would he know she was that fine a person? What if she had her 'good girl' pants on in public but was a high maintenance pain in the tuckus and up to no good in private?Image IPB

I was always thinking that he referred to her risking everything to kill the Archdemon, and not exactly about her personally.

Or if she helped Jowan, maybe he thought it was rare that someone would defend their friend even under certain circumstances. Or if she went to Irving to report what Jowan was planning, that he thought it was good of her to stand by the Circle's rules? Just contemplation.

#32924
LolaLei

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motomotogirl wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

That's something I wonder actually. All the potential Warden's supposedly existed regardless of whether you played as them or not, it's just that the ones you don't pick die. So if that's the case, was he in love with Surana, Amell, both or neither? LOL.


Are you sure about that? If you don't import a Mahariel, Merrill mentions only Tamlen being involved with the mirror. Mahariel is never mentioned. I don't believe this person exists unless you import him/her. Same goes for Amell, Surana, etc. And even if they all DID exist, is Amell male or female? Surana? What if both are male? So Cullen never had his crush. 

LolaLei wrote...But yeah, you have a point. Although, they were quick enough to retcon a dead Leliana (if you killed her), yet she's still alive in DA2 regardless, so clearly BioWare don't mind retconning or changing the rules to suit. So I guess if they wanted to use his love for whoever (be it Amell or Surana even if you didn't play as them) they'd likely do it lol.


I have to be honest; it would really upset me if Cullen's love for Amell/Surana were made canon. It would feel like the writers were validating someone else's playthrough. That's not how I played my game; that's not how things panned out in MY game. You know? But you're right; they brought a potentially dead Leliana back to life. Same for Anders (if you let him die in Awakening). Have a feeling the characters Wynne and Sten will also be canon (if the comics and the book are anything to go by). 

But I just absolutely do not want DA3!Cullen's personality and romance to be shaped by an experience I didn't personally import! Yeah I'm sure it's obvious at this point, but I reeeeally hate Cullen x Amell lol


I never saw it myself but apparently the body of either the Dwarf commoner or Dwarf noble can be found dead if you play as one of the other origin characters.

As for the Cullen thing, I totally agree. Even though I did play as the female Amell I'd be really pissed off if she's the reason that he won't romance my DA3 protagonist, especially considering my Amell only had eyes for Alistair and didn't try to seduce Cullen.

I actually really find it hard to read Cullen x Amell and Cullen x Hawke fanfics (even though I like reading about Cullen) simply because I feel like the Warden and Hawke belong to the associated LI's available in each game, plus my canon Amell romanced Alistair and my male Hawke romanced Anders, so it's weird thinking of them with anyone else.

Modifié par LolaLei, 18 janvier 2013 - 11:11 .


#32925
LolaLei

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Shades_Of_Pale wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

I have to say that since this dialogue is only heard by a small fraction of players (players who imported a FemAmell DA:O playthrough) that it is not remotely important and has little to do with his character and his future prospects in DA3. He never says that to ANY of my Hawke's; why, because I've never played nor imported a FemAmell, so Cullen in my games never knew an Amell and thus never loved her... because she did not exist.

I didn't have an Amell import either but it's fun to speculate. It's not like we've had much to dissect anyway.

Here's the other thought I had in that vein: If Cullen did only know her in passing (or creepily skulking) with sparse conversation, then how would he know she was that fine a person? What if she had her 'good girl' pants on in public but was a high maintenance pain in the tuckus and up to no good in private?Image IPB

I was always thinking that he referred to her risking everything to kill the Archdemon, and not exactly about her personally.

Or if she helped Jowan, maybe he thought it was rare that someone would defend their friend even under certain circumstances. Or if she went to Irving to report what Jowan was planning, that he thought it was good of her to stand by the Circle's rules? Just contemplation.


Yeah, that's what I was getting at with my theory. Although he remembers Amell fondly, it's really her acomplishments and strength of will/personality/sacrifice and the adventure that she had that he admires, which is something that he has yet to find in another woman (or man).

Modifié par LolaLei, 18 janvier 2013 - 11:17 .