SamaraDraven wrote...
Exactly! It wasn't until she wrote that letter to Hawke sounding ****y about being a Warden that I went "Hold on... why?" And then I thought about it and discovered that Bethany looks to others. She blames those she sees as responsible for her own decisions. She's never felt responsible for herself to the point of being judgmental of others for showing their own opinions because she's expecting their decision to be the best, to be what she should do and their decision is one she doesn't like. "Can't you decide to like another alternative that I might like better?"
I think this really the key in understanding Bethany's personality. She treats herself like a child. She needs someone to force her to grow up and I think the Warden option is the only option she has in the game to start learning how to be responsible for herself. Going to the Circle just enforces her mindset because the Gallows will treat all mages like permanent children.
SamaraDraven wrote...
I realize that for many fans Bethany pushes their "protective" buttons.
And thus I think she'd push Cullen's protective buttons. I think he'd be protective over the one he loves but I don't think he'd fall in love with those he feels he has to protect.
Although I think it will be purely a job for him. Bethany is a ward of the circle, Cullen has forced himself to think of the mages as
wards. If he sees anything that might cause trouble (Alrik walking down the hall...), I seem him doing his duty just as plainly and unemotionally as a police officer. He'll direct her
and all other mages out of the way of harm, but none will receive special treatment.
SamaraDraven wrote...
I suspect that Cullen feels that he is very ordinary and he looks up at people who seem larger than life. I sometimes suspect that Cullen thinks he can improve his status if he is looked at favorably by higher status people.
I don't think he's a coattails rider, but I do think he wants to do what's right and relies on looking up to others to determine what that should be and then waiting for acknowledgement so he knows followng that person was the right thing to do. Until the person he's idolizing goes so far off the reservation he can't help but know they're not the paragon of virtue he thought. This is something I expect him to have to grapple with later.
No, I don't see him as a coattails rider. I should have been more clear. It seems like Cullen understands that he can improve his status if he learns how to emulate people who he respects, which is why he seeks out these kinds of people. This is a proactive, admirable trait, although he trusts others too much and then he does all of the things you said above.
One of the biggests reasons I want to see Cullen return in DA3 is because DA2 sets him up to start grappling with this issue. With the Chantry falling apart during the mage-templar war, Cullen will be required to look inside himself to figure out what is right, what is wrong, and what he can do help put the world back together. That would be a really big step for him and it would be very interesting for him to be a companion in DA3 while he's wrestling with this.
SamaraDraven wrote...
After all, he was very ordinary, very average, not the best looking in the tower, and very awkward and shy and all of the sudden the very best apprentice is speaking to him and knows his name. 
LOL! Yeah, very Alistair-ish in that regard. So impressionable!
Clearly, this is what a Chantry upbringing has done to these boys!
SamaraDraven wrote...
He's will protect the mages, and touching them or looking at them is wrong. Either way, I don't see Bethany's "protect me" charms having any special effect on Cullen and when Bethany fails to get any special response from Cullen, she'll move on to someone else because she is purposefully looking for people to respond and fix things for her.
Well he will protect her. It just won't make him like her romantically. It might work for Anders or Sebastian but Cullen has learnd to separate his duty (i.e. the Circle) from his feelings. It's always been those that don't need him but make an effort to give him their time that has snagged his interest.
Right, because protecting Bethany is no different from protecting all other wards of the Circle. Cullen has made a conscious decision to see the mages in the Gallows as
wards. Some are stronger and better than others, but all of them are in the Circle because the Circle is where they belong. He didn't think this during DA:O but this is clearly how he thinks in DA2.
This is also why a lot of Cullen haters hate him. Even if he can see the Circle mages as human, they are still wards who need to be watched. They are different from him and he doesn't appear willing to cross that line while he's at the Gallows. Thus, he'll treat Bethany no different from anyone else. Even if he feel required to do something for her because she's Hawke's sister -- make sure that she receives her mail or something like that -- I can only see him putting up a wall of professionalism while doing this. She's a ward. Sure, she might be a ward who is sister to Kirkwall's Champion, but she is still a ward making her no different from all the other mages there.
I actually see Cullen using HUGE double standards during DA2. In Act 2 and Act 3 (especially Act 3) he seems genuinely pleased to Hawke even if Hawke is a mage. I suspect that he thinks that people like mage!Hawke are "special" because they are strong enough to not need watching. To him, they are the exception to the rule. He might even think that if a mage isn't strong enough to stay out of the Gallows, then they probably should be one of the Gallows' wards. During DA:O Cullen's dialogue with the mage Warden also hints at this sort of special, preferential treatment during certain lines the Broken Circle quest. Again, if this double standard is really there, it adds to the reason why Cullen haters hate him. To me, it makes him an interesting Templar because he has the capacity to see mages as people who can be trusted in society. He merely needs to learn how to
trust himself rather than others (the Knight-Commander) to determine how to see mages as innocent members of society until actually proven guilty. We see the very first hint of this when he saves the Circle mages who surrender during DA2's templar ending. But, those are mages who will stay in the circle. He is willing to see them as innocent, although only partly innocent. The real grow for his character will happen when he learns how to see innocent mages out in society as innocent without being told by another authority (the Grey Wardens, Hawke's status/reputation/bribes/tithes and Meredith willingly overlooking Hawke's apostate nature because it is useful to Meredith).
Anyhow, I see Cullen as painfully human but also a fundamentally good, compassionate person. For me, this just makes his struggle all the more compelling.
But, back to circle!Bethany, I would go even further than what you said about Cullen learning to separate his feelings from his duty. He feels that circle mages should be treated compassionately and with mercy (such as his line about tranquility is a merciful solution because it saves the mage's life), but he doesn't look at Circle mages the same way that he looks at people walking freely in society. He believes that his duty requires him to think this way and that will make him act differently when protecting people like Bethany. He's lightyears away from ever thinking about romance in the circle.
Modifié par vieralynn, 14 mai 2012 - 12:30 .
I sorrie. 
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But I don't condone actually burning things like that. I was just... very angry at my school for their new retention program which added 2-3 years to my highschool career because I was behind on what was now called "required" credits and there was no remedial catch up program, just slogging through, using elective classes to take required courses and we couldn't afford a separate finishing program the city had. That pace set my graduation back so I took the G.E.D. exam at the end of the year, passed with flying colors. Instead of passing mself, I helped many other students pass classes they had trouble with and I can't say I'm sorry about how it all turned out. 
