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The Official Knight-Captain Cullen Discussion thread 2.0.


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#36951
LolaLei

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Oooo, this is interesting!

Apparently DG recently saw this picture by Aimo:

Posted Image


And responded with: "The writers must see this. They will laugh, for reasons I shan’t discuss. Still, pretty."

I wonder if maybe they had/have a "thing" if your Warden didn't romance Leliana and you don't romance Cassandra (if she's romanceable at all). Either that or they don't get along at all... or they have some sort of "history". Gah, I need to know these things!

... Makes me wonder if the DA:O/DA2 companions that you didn't romance will start popping up with a new boyfriend/girlfriend in tow or something?

Modifié par LolaLei, 26 février 2013 - 02:19 .


#36952
Ilidan_DA

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#36953
LolaLei

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Aaaand I've just discovered how attractive Brian Bloom is! (Varric's voice actor)

#36954
R2s Muse

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Sifr1449 wrote...

I'd suspect that the breaking of the Nevarran Accord would be the final straw for Cullen. From what we've see of him, it's likely he'd abandon the old order and ally himself with the Chantry.

I don't believe he'd remain with the Templars, at least, not willingly.

If he is with the Templars in DA3, he's either leading a faction loyal to the Chantry, or a POW held by the Templars who chose to rebel under the Lambert's orders.


Yeah, I see this potentially being a real personal crisis for Cullen. He's already had to do significant soul searching about the "true" path of the Order... and then suddenly the Order itself changes that path. I would love for that to part of his personal quest, his "questioning beliefs" as it were, that he's still struggling with that decision. Whether that means he has already decided to quit the non-Chantry aligned Order, or perhaps you're helping him decide.

#36955
LolaLei

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R2s Muse wrote...

Sifr1449 wrote...

I'd suspect that the breaking of the Nevarran Accord would be the final straw for Cullen. From what we've see of him, it's likely he'd abandon the old order and ally himself with the Chantry.

I don't believe he'd remain with the Templars, at least, not willingly.

If he is with the Templars in DA3, he's either leading a faction loyal to the Chantry, or a POW held by the Templars who chose to rebel under the Lambert's orders.


Yeah, I see this potentially being a real personal crisis for Cullen. He's already had to do significant soul searching about the "true" path of the Order... and then suddenly the Order itself changes that path. I would love for that to part of his personal quest, his "questioning beliefs" as it were, that he's still struggling with that decision. Whether that means he has already decided to quit the non-Chantry aligned Order, or perhaps you're helping him decide.


Oooo, I like the idea of Cullen being a POW! Is that evil of me?

... Obviously we'd come and save him! But I just really like the idea of him experiencing more hardship before finding happiness with my protagonist. :innocent:

#36956
Jean

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LolaLei wrote...

Oooo, this is interesting!

Apparently DG recently saw this picture by Aimo:

Posted Image


And responded with: "The writers must see this. They will laugh, for reasons I shan’t discuss. Still, pretty."

I wonder if maybe they had/have a "thing" if your Warden didn't romance Leliana and you don't romance Cassandra (if she's romanceable at all). Either that or they don't get along at all... or they have some sort of "history". Gah, I need to know these things!

... Makes me wonder if the DA:O/DA2 companions that you didn't romance will start popping up with a new boyfriend/girlfriend in tow or something?


I believe I've seen it said somewhere that there was going to be Carver/Merrill or Seb/Bethany in the expansion pack if you didn't romance either. So it's a possibility.

Buuut, unfortunately, I do not have the exact quote of that to reference.

Maybe instead of having a thing, they really don't like each other and merely tolerate working together. DA3 cat fights? B)
I also <3 Aimo's art. Makes me want to pick up my pen again.

Modifié par Batteries, 26 février 2013 - 02:45 .


#36957
R2s Muse

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Batteries wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

... Makes me wonder if the DA:O/DA2 companions that you didn't romance will start popping up with a new boyfriend/girlfriend in tow or something?


I believe I've seen it said somewhere that there was going to be Carver/Merrill (also brought on by another art Aimo did) or Seb/Bethany in the expansion pack if you didn't romance either. So it's a possibility.

Buuut, unfortunately, I do not have the exact quote of that to reference.

I also <3 Aimo's art. Makes me want to pick up my pen again.

I hadn't heard that those ships were fostered by Aimo art. Weren't they already hinted at in the games? Or are you saying that her art fostered the idea before the games?  I know DG talked about including them in the expansions in one of his tumblr entries, but I don't remember the aimo part of it. I love that they collaborate with her, tho. That scene between Alistair and Morrigan was so well done.

#36958
R2s Muse

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LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Sifr1449 wrote...

I'd suspect that the breaking of the Nevarran Accord would be the final straw for Cullen. From what we've see of him, it's likely he'd abandon the old order and ally himself with the Chantry.

I don't believe he'd remain with the Templars, at least, not willingly.

If he is with the Templars in DA3, he's either leading a faction loyal to the Chantry, or a POW held by the Templars who chose to rebel under the Lambert's orders.


Yeah, I see this potentially being a real personal crisis for Cullen. He's already had to do significant soul searching about the "true" path of the Order... and then suddenly the Order itself changes that path. I would love for that to part of his personal quest, his "questioning beliefs" as it were, that he's still struggling with that decision. Whether that means he has already decided to quit the non-Chantry aligned Order, or perhaps you're helping him decide.


Oooo, I like the idea of Cullen being a POW! Is that evil of me?

... Obviously we'd come and save him! But I just really like the idea of him experiencing more hardship before finding happiness with my protagonist. :innocent:

LOL Yes, but we've already established that. You're all about the Cullen suffering... and that's OK! ;)

#36959
Jean

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 I worded that a bit wrong and didn't finish writing before hitting submit. Doh. >.<

I meant that apparently a dev/s saw some art Aimo did of Carver/Merrill and that brought up what was going to be included in the expansion - which was going to be Carver/Merrill

Didn't know about Seb/Beth though

Modifié par Batteries, 26 février 2013 - 02:49 .


#36960
R2s Muse

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Batteries wrote...

 I worded that a bit wrong and didn't finish writing before hitting submit. Doh. >.<

I meant that apparently a dev/s saw some art Aimo did of Carver/Merrill and that brought up what was going to be included in the expansion - which was going to be Carver/Merrill

Didn't know about the Seb/Beth though

OH!  I see. I didn't know that. I do  like the Car/Mer ship. That would be cool to see. Seb/Beth... don't get me started... :)

I wasn't sure how to interpret what DG said about Lel/Cass pic. I was figuring, whatever it was, it was probably some inside joke with the writers pit. Whether they'd headcanoned that ship, or joked that others might. Who knows! (and I wish we did!) LOL

#36961
Jean

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 I hope if characters start getting revealed, the devs will come and grace us with their presence like they did when DA2 was in development.
Ser Gaider facing the "MEG" onslaught was gold. Fenris was theorized to be a LivingGod/Flesh Golem/Werewolf/Lost Arlathan thing/Demon Hybrid abomination mystical elf.I love reading what they have to say. And the tears that follow. :devil:

#36962
R2s Muse

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Batteries wrote...

 I hope if characters start getting revealed, the devs will come and grace us with their presence like they did when DA2 was in development.
Ser Gaider facing the "MEG" onslaught was gold. Fenris was theorized to be a LivingGod/Flesh Golem/Werewolf/Lost Arlathan thing/Demon Hybrid abomination mystical elf.I love reading what they have to say. And the tears that follow. :devil:

I wasn't around for any of that, but it sounds fascinating. I too hope that the devs overcome their distaste for the forums when there's something real to discuss.

#36963
LolaLei

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Batteries wrote...

 I hope if characters start getting revealed, the devs will come and grace us with their presence like they did when DA2 was in development.
Ser Gaider facing the "MEG" onslaught was gold. Fenris was theorized to be a LivingGod/Flesh Golem/Werewolf/Lost Arlathan thing/Demon Hybrid abomination mystical elf.I love reading what they have to say. And the tears that follow. :devil:


LMFAO! It's weird to think that people could get Fenris soooo wrong! It seems obvious what he is now, but at the time we knew nothing about him.

It's gonna be amazing this time round, but depending on whether some of the characters in the survey leak appear as companions in DA3 will probably ruin the speculation a little, since we'd have some very basic background knowledge of them already.

#36964
R2s Muse

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LolaLei wrote...

What I wonder, regarding Cullen letting a pro-mage Hawke escape, is whether or not letting him go had any repercussions? Obviously, we saw the Templars siding with Cullen when he aided Hawke in killing Meredith etc, BUT that was ONLY in defeating Meredith since they knew she was crazy and made their jobs harder.

However, (and this goes for both pro-mage and pro-templar endings), would they still be willing to stand by a (potentially) Divine-loyal Cullen once all the Templars began to rebel? Just because they didn't like Meredith's balls to the wall methods, doesn't necessarily mean that they agree with the Divine's seemingly "pro-mage" stance. I'm sure that a small handful of those Templars that fought by his side in Kirkwall would defend Cullen should he find himself facing charges of insubordination etc, but I'm pretty sure that the bulk of them would happily back stab him or choose to rebel under Lambert's orders and aid the newly rebelled Order in throwing Cullen to the wolves, especially if Cullen actively tried to make a stand when the Nevarran Accord was severed. 


My personal theory is that the Kirkwall templars were loyal to Cullen, to a point. They followed his direct orders over Meredith's several times (e.g. with surrendering mages, refusing to kill Hawke at the end). But, I think there is so much confusion after Meredith went statue, that the templars were probably holding on to protocol by their fingernails. I think part of the tension there was that the templars, most of whom had not been involved in the Meredith battle, didn't know whether Hawke was still considered an enemy or not. In the heat of the moment, they go with whatever Cullen says (mage or templar ending). But what happens the morning after??

I think that depends on too many variables to say. Perhaps he just takes over as acting Knight-Commander, and everything is fine until someone shows up asking questions. Of course, those someones never seem to ask the right questions since no one years later seems to know what really happaned. But the Kirkwall templars, given time to think, might then also turn on him. Maybe he gets scapegoated for the whole thing! Or, maybe they stay loyal, back up his story, and he gets officially promoted.

I think without knowing how those things play out, it's hard to say what would happen three years later when the Accord is broken. If he's been in jail that whole time, or already kicked out of the Order, there's no one to be loyal to him, if you see what I mean. If he's been a KC that whole time, then... I would imagine his own templars would be pretty loyal at that point. So, if he then decides not to go along with the separation... would he expect his men to come with him and support the Divine?  Would he quit the Order individually, and go to the Divine alone for a job?  Depends on quite a bit.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 26 février 2013 - 03:21 .


#36965
LolaLei

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R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

What I wonder, regarding Cullen letting a pro-mage Hawke escape, is whether or not letting him go had any repercussions? Obviously, we saw the Templars siding with Cullen when he aided Hawke in killing Meredith etc, BUT that was ONLY in defeating Meredith since they knew she was crazy and made their jobs harder.

However, (and this goes for both pro-mage and pro-templar endings), would they still be willing to stand by a (potentially) Divine-loyal Cullen once all the Templars began to rebel? Just because they didn't like Meredith's balls to the wall methods, doesn't necessarily mean that they agree with the Divine's seemingly "pro-mage" stance. I'm sure that a small handful of those Templars that fought by his side in Kirkwall would defend Cullen should he find himself facing charges of insubordination etc, but I'm pretty sure that the bulk of them would happily back stab him or choose to rebel under Lambert's orders and aid the newly rebelled Order in throwing Cullen to the wolves, especially if Cullen actively tried to make a stand when the Nevarran Accord was severed. 


My personal theory is that the Kirkwall templars were loyal to Cullen, to a point. They followed his direct orders over Meredith's several times (e.g. with surrendering mages, refusing to kill Hawke at the end). But, I think there is so much confusion after Meredith went statue, that the templars were probably holding on to protocol by their fingernails. I think part of the tension there was that the templars, most of whom had not been involved in the Meredith battle, didn't know whether Hawke was still considered an enemy or not. In the heat of the moment, they go with whatever Cullen says (mage or templar ending). But what happens the morning after??

I think that depends on too many variables to say. Perhaps he just takes over as acting Knight-Commander, and everything is fine until someone shows up asking questions. Of course, those someones never seem to ask the right questions since no one years later seems to know what really happaned. But the Kirkwall templars, given time to think, might then also turn on him. Maybe he gets scapegoated for the whole thing! Or, maybe they stay loyal, back up his story, and he gets officially promoted.

I think without knowing how those things play out, it's hard to say what would happen three years later when the Accord is broken. If he's been in jail that whole time, or already kicked out of the Order, there's no one to be loyal to him, if you see what I mean. If he's been a KC that whole time, then... I would imagine his own templars would be pretty loyal at that point. So, if he then decides not to go along with the separation... would he expect his men to come with him and support the Divine?  Would he quit the Order individually, and go to the Divine alone for a job?  Depends on quite a bit.


I'm dreading the possibility that Cullen was made a Knight Commander, mainly because I hate the idea that he stood by and agreed to Lambert breaking the Nevarran Accord without making a stand. After Cullen stood up to Meredith and began to question the Order during his time in Kirkwall, I'd find it weird if he didn't voice his opinions at the very least.

... The only thing that would make it a little more believable, is if he stood by and let it happen, but later regretted it, ditched the Order and is now looking to "put things right". It would still be a cop out but it would be enough for me to suspend belief.

HOWEVER, if Cullen (as a Knight Commander) voiced his concerns about Lambert's plans to the Divine and she was like: "Cullen, I need you to go to this meeting and agree with Lambert. Your task is to gather information and send it back to me." Then that would be kinda awesome. Essentially Cullen would be a sleeper agent secretly working for the Divine, which would make for an amazing quest in which we have some sort of dealing with the rebelled Templars, we (the player) presume Cullen has sided with them and is presumably a "bad guy". In the meantime whilst on their "territory" we have some sort of altercation with one of the commanding Templars, suddenly Cullen appears behind said Templar and slits his throat. *Que me squeeing like a massive fangirl*

Modifié par LolaLei, 26 février 2013 - 05:23 .


#36966
Sifr

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Whatever happened to him in the interim, I think the Seekers would have questions for him.

Providing he's still in Kirkwall in 9:40, I'm partial to the idea that Leliana may have been questioning Cullen over the events at the Gallows, while Cassandra was busy hearing the story from Varric.

If they went with the POW angle, it'd be great because it'd be the second time he's been imprisoned, this time by his own people. It'd be interesting to see Cullen torn between his loyalty to the Templars or the Mages.

I'm getting the urge to write many fanfics.

#36967
LolaLei

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Sifr1449 wrote...

Whatever happened to him in the interim, I think the Seekers would have questions for him.

Providing he's still in Kirkwall in 9:40, I'm partial to the idea that Leliana may have been questioning Cullen over the events at the Gallows, while Cassandra was busy hearing the story from Varric.

If they went with the POW angle, it'd be great because it'd be the second time he's been imprisoned, this time by his own people. It'd be interesting to see Cullen torn between his loyalty to the Templars or the Mages.

I'm getting the urge to write many fanfics.


See, that's what makes me think that he wasn't still in Kirkwall by the time Cassandra and Leliana arrived to interogate Varric. Surely if he was still around then they would want to speak to him, especially since he played a part in killing Meredith and was a first hand witness to Hawke's behaviour during his/her time in Kirkwall. In theory you'd think that Leliana or Cassandra would have mentioned speaking to him if he was still around? Unless that aspect is being kept back for DA3 when we finally discover where Cullen's been and how he came to be in whatever position/situation he's in.

I really like the POW angle, not only because he'd be imprisioned yet again, but because this time it's by the Order he'd remained faithful to throughtout his entire adult life. It would also give him a new perspective of the treatment a lot of the circle mages experience. Potentially it could be a real learning curve for him and re-shape his outlook on life etc.

#36968
LolaLei

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I've been thinking about this whole lyrium use thing. According to the codex the Tervinter Magisters of old used so much of the stuff that over time it began to twist their flesh and deform them into hideous looking beings. This got me thinking, could the same thing happen to Templars? Particularly those Templars who are heavily addicted to the stuff?

And what of the red lyrium? Presumably the side effects and addiction would take place a lot quicker than regular lyrium.

#36969
R2s Muse

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LolaLei wrote...

HOWEVER, if Cullen (as a Knight Commander) voiced his concerns about Lambert's plans to the Divine and she was like: "Cullen, I need you to go to this meeting and agree with Lambert. Your task is to gather information and send it back to me." Then that would be kinda awesome. Essentially Cullen would be a sleeper agent secretly working for the Divine, which would make for an amazing quest in which we have some sort of dealing with the rebelled Templars, we (the player) presume Cullen has sided with the them and is presumably a "bad guy". In the meantime whilst on their "territory" we have some sort of altercation with one of the commanding Templars, suddenly Cullen appears behind said Templar and slits his throat. *Que me squeeing like a massive fangirl*

LOVE THIS. Love it. ...I feel a plot bunny sniffing...  That would be such an awesome twist, and yet totally in character. It would definitely lead to a great "questioning beliefs" personal quest for Cullen, as well, as he has moments of doubt with all the double-crossing going on.

#36970
R2s Muse

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LolaLei wrote...

Sifr1449 wrote...

Whatever happened to him in the interim, I think the Seekers would have questions for him.

Providing he's still in Kirkwall in 9:40, I'm partial to the idea that Leliana may have been questioning Cullen over the events at the Gallows, while Cassandra was busy hearing the story from Varric.

If they went with the POW angle, it'd be great because it'd be the second time he's been imprisoned, this time by his own people. It'd be interesting to see Cullen torn between his loyalty to the Templars or the Mages.

I'm getting the urge to write many fanfics.


See, that's what makes me think that he wasn't still in Kirkwall by the time Cassandra and Leliana arrived to interogate Varric. Surely if he was still around then they would want to speak to him, especially since he played a part in killing Meredith and was a first hand witness to Hawke's behaviour during his/her time in Kirkwall. In theory you'd think that Leliana or Cassandra would have mentioned speaking to him if he was still around? Unless that aspect is being kept back for DA3 when we finally discover where Cullen's been and how he came to be in whatever position/situation he's in.

I really like the POW angle, not only because he'd be imprisioned yet again, but because this time it's by the Order he'd remained faithful to throughtout his entire adult life. It would also give him a new perspective of the treatment a lot of the circle mages experience. Potentially it could be a real learning curve for him and re-shape his outlook on life etc.

Yeah, the imprisonment thing is something I've been writing about for a while. I think it's very plausible that SOMEONE needed to take the fall for what happened. I have a hard time believing that someone actually questioned Cullen about what happened, unless what they learned was hushed up (so hushed up that even the Divine's Right Hand, Cassandra, doesn't know...? ) or they didn't believe him, contributing to his guilt and punishment. Three years is a long time for no one to find out what happened.

What's also interesting is that, IMO, Cassandra didn't come to Varric in search of the real truth about Meredith. It seemed to me that her only goal was to find the Champion, so she wanted to learn as much as she could about that day for clues as where Hawke went after he/she walked out that gate (or in the pro-templar case, after he/she split Viscount's Keep). I don't think she was expecting to uncover all sorts of mistruths about Kirkwall, Hawke, and Meredith.

#36971
R2s Muse

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LolaLei wrote...

I've been thinking about this whole lyrium use thing. According to the codex the Tervinter Magisters of old used so much of the stuff that over time it began to twist their flesh and deform them into hideous looking beings. This got me thinking, could the same thing happen to Templars? Particularly those Templars who are heavily addicted to the stuff?

And what of the red lyrium? Presumably the side effects and addiction would take place a lot quicker than regular lyrium.

Yeah, the section on red lyrium in the encyclopedia is interesting. I hadn't thought about it that way, but they describe it as basically lyrium for the non-mage, acting more quickly and much more dangerously.

Posted Image

#36972
LolaLei

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R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Sifr1449 wrote...

Whatever happened to him in the interim, I think the Seekers would have questions for him.

Providing he's still in Kirkwall in 9:40, I'm partial to the idea that Leliana may have been questioning Cullen over the events at the Gallows, while Cassandra was busy hearing the story from Varric.

If they went with the POW angle, it'd be great because it'd be the second time he's been imprisoned, this time by his own people. It'd be interesting to see Cullen torn between his loyalty to the Templars or the Mages.

I'm getting the urge to write many fanfics.


See, that's what makes me think that he wasn't still in Kirkwall by the time Cassandra and Leliana arrived to interogate Varric. Surely if he was still around then they would want to speak to him, especially since he played a part in killing Meredith and was a first hand witness to Hawke's behaviour during his/her time in Kirkwall. In theory you'd think that Leliana or Cassandra would have mentioned speaking to him if he was still around? Unless that aspect is being kept back for DA3 when we finally discover where Cullen's been and how he came to be in whatever position/situation he's in.

I really like the POW angle, not only because he'd be imprisioned yet again, but because this time it's by the Order he'd remained faithful to throughtout his entire adult life. It would also give him a new perspective of the treatment a lot of the circle mages experience. Potentially it could be a real learning curve for him and re-shape his outlook on life etc.

Yeah, the imprisonment thing is something I've been writing about for a while. I think it's very plausible that SOMEONE needed to take the fall for what happened. I have a hard time believing that someone actually questioned Cullen about what happened, unless what they learned was hushed up (so hushed up that even the Divine's Right Hand, Cassandra, doesn't know...? ) or they didn't believe him, contributing to his guilt and punishment. Three years is a long time for no one to find out what happened.

What's also interesting is that, IMO, Cassandra didn't come to Varric in search of the real truth about Meredith. It seemed to me that her only goal was to find the Champion, so she wanted to learn as much as she could about that day for clues as where Hawke went after he/she walked out that gate (or in the pro-templar case, after he/she split Viscount's Keep). I don't think she was expecting to uncover all sorts of mistruths about Kirkwall, Hawke, and Meredith.


Yeah, I'd say that was probably what Cassandra was after. She wanted to get some clues about Hawke's whereabouts under the guise of questioning Varric about his/her involvement with the whole Meredith thing.

#36973
LolaLei

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R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

HOWEVER, if Cullen (as a Knight Commander) voiced his concerns about Lambert's plans to the Divine and she was like: "Cullen, I need you to go to this meeting and agree with Lambert. Your task is to gather information and send it back to me." Then that would be kinda awesome. Essentially Cullen would be a sleeper agent secretly working for the Divine, which would make for an amazing quest in which we have some sort of dealing with the rebelled Templars, we (the player) presume Cullen has sided with them and is presumably a "bad guy". In the meantime whilst on their "territory" we have some sort of altercation with one of the commanding Templars, suddenly Cullen appears behind said Templar and slits his throat. *Que me squeeing like a massive fangirl*

LOVE THIS. Love it. ...I feel a plot bunny sniffing...  That would be such an awesome twist, and yet totally in character. It would definitely lead to a great "questioning beliefs" personal quest for Cullen, as well, as he has moments of doubt with all the double-crossing going on.


I think it's fast becoming my alternative headcanon LOL.

Modifié par LolaLei, 26 février 2013 - 05:23 .


#36974
R2s Muse

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Another reminder about Page 1500!!  It's just around the corner!

R2s Muse wrote...

So just as a reminder/announcement, our theme for Page 1500 will be "A Dark and Stormy Night." So, come up with any kind of Cullen-y concoction you can think of using that theme.

- Opening lines/scene of DA3 starting with "It was a dark and stormy night..." (and featuring Cullen in some way!)
- Fanart, photomanips, inspired by a dark and stormy night
- Fanfiction, short, long, in-between, inspired by same
- Jib jabs, videos
- Banners
- Limericks, haiku, poems
- Playlists
- Drink and/or hors d'oeurves recipes
- Whatevers!

We've got some time yet, so get those creative juices flowing!

And, some inspiration by littlenikki:

littlenikki wrote...

Ooh, I'm loving this theme! I threw something together super quick, that I'm too impatient to wait to share until 1500 :P I'll make something more polished for that!

Posted Image



#36975
LolaLei

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R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

I've been thinking about this whole lyrium use thing. According to the codex the Tervinter Magisters of old used so much of the stuff that over time it began to twist their flesh and deform them into hideous looking beings. This got me thinking, could the same thing happen to Templars? Particularly those Templars who are heavily addicted to the stuff?

And what of the red lyrium? Presumably the side effects and addiction would take place a lot quicker than regular lyrium.

Yeah, the section on red lyrium in the encyclopedia is interesting. I hadn't thought about it that way, but they describe it as basically lyrium for the non-mage, acting more quickly and much more dangerously.

Posted Image


I'm still hoping that the rebelled Templars end up using the stuff lol. Cullen totally wouldn't touch it though, since he's seen first hand what that stuff does to people!