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[LolaLei]

Thinking about it further, it totally wouldn't surprise me if the rebelled Templars resorted to using the red lyrium to give them a better edge against the mages, since the red lyrium gives them an artificial form of magic.

[LolaLei]

 I actually posted the following in one of the DA3 threads about companion quests, but I figured I'd also post it in here to (hopefully) generate conversation:

"I'm wondering if part of the reason why a lot of people were unimpressed by the DA2 companion quests was due to each one requiring us to have to fight through wave after wave of enemies, and in doing so took away from the fact that these "special" quests were supposed to be a way of Hawke (and the player) getting to know each companion better.

It was certainly the case for me, as I felt that the constant swarms of enemies took away from quests storyline and the reason why we were helping said companion in the first place. I'm hoping that the DA3 companion quests won't always require us to fight."


How did you guys feel about the companion quests in DA2? Did you prefer the DA:O ones? If you could improve the companion quests in DA3 what would you change or add to them to make them better?

[Newschmoo]

Thinking about Lyrium, Cullen was kept imprisoned by Uldred for weeks (could have been longer) at the Ferelden Circle so would have gone through lyrium withdrawal. Did he go back onto lyrium or is he lyrium free? And do templars really need lyrium because Alistair had the skills but never took the stuff?

I really hope that the use of red lyrium is part of the DA3 story. I also feel that Corypheus will be involved somehow (saw him mentioned a few pages back).

[LolaLei]

Newschmoo wrote...

Thinking about Lyrium, Cullen was kept imprisoned by Uldred for weeks (could have been longer) at the Ferelden Circle so would have gone through lyrium withdrawal. Did he go back onto lyrium or is he lyrium free? And do templars really need lyrium because Alistair had the skills but never took the stuff?

I really hope that the use of red lyrium is part of the DA3 story. I also feel that Corypheus will be involved somehow (saw him mentioned a few pages back).

That's a good point actually. If he was starved of lyrium for weeks/months then at that point he probably wasn't addicted. If you play a male Amell/Surana he says that he's new to "all this" so presumably he hadn't long become a Templar... maybe he was only a recruit back then? Either way, according the codex it takes a while for them to become addicted. I'd presume he does use lyrium though.

Apparently the lyrium just gives them an edge over magic users, so you can still learn all the Templar moves, but the use of lyrium just gives them better magic resistance. I've been hoping for a while that the protagonist 'n' co will discover that lyrium really is only used as a way to keep control of the Templars, I'd love to see Cullen's reaction to that, especially if he is loyal to the Divine!

Modifié par LolaLei, 26 février 2013 - 08:41 .

[R2s Muse]

Hmm good point about Cullen in the cage in Kinloch Hold. I wonder if somehow they were feeding him lyrium during that since according to Evangeline in Asunder, it only takes a week to start feeling withdrawal.

On Alistair, I know there's been lots of confusion and discussion on that. In the Thedas UK interview DG said:

Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards.

Which suggests to me that Alistair had taken a little in order to learn how to do those things, but he was never taking it regularly enough to become addicted.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

That's a good point actually. If he was starved of lyrium for weeks/months then at that point he probably wasn't addicted. If you play a male Amell/Surana he says that he's new to "all this" so presumably he hadn't long become a Templar... maybe he was only a recruit back then? Either way, according the codex it takes a while for them to become addicted. I'd presume he does use lyrium though.

Hmm, that's a good point. Maybe he wasn't addicted yet. That's probably the better reason.

Apparently the lyrium just gives them an edge over magic users, so you can still learn all the Templar moves, but the use of lyrium just gives them better magic resistance. I've been hoping for a while that the protagonist 'n' co will discover that lyrium really is only used as a way to keep control of the Templars, I'd love to see Cullen's reaction to that, especially if he is loyal to the Divine!

Yeah, I think that's just a byproduct of gameplay, but according to DG a templar really does need lyrium to use their abilities, not just to become magic resistant.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

That's a good point actually. If he was starved of lyrium for weeks/months then at that point he probably wasn't addicted. If you play a male Amell/Surana he says that he's new to "all this" so presumably he hadn't long become a Templar... maybe he was only a recruit back then? Either way, according the codex it takes a while for them to become addicted. I'd presume he does use lyrium though.

Hmm, that's a good point. Maybe he wasn't addicted yet. That's probably the better reason.

Apparently the lyrium just gives them an edge over magic users, so you can still learn all the Templar moves, but the use of lyrium just gives them better magic resistance. I've been hoping for a while that the protagonist 'n' co will discover that lyrium really is only used as a way to keep control of the Templars, I'd love to see Cullen's reaction to that, especially if he is loyal to the Divine!

Yeah, I think that's just a byproduct of gameplay, but according to DG a templar really does need lyrium to use their abilities, not just to become magic resistant.

Yeah, I should've been more specific on that part lol.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

Hmm good point about Cullen in the cage in Kinloch Hold. I wonder if somehow they were feeding him lyrium during that since according to Evangeline in Asunder, it only takes a week to start feeling withdrawal.

On Alistair, I know there's been lots of confusion and discussion on that. In the Thedas UK interview DG said:

Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards.

Which suggests to me that Alistair had taken a little in order to learn how to do those things, but he was never taking it regularly enough to become addicted.

LOL DG changes his mind about lyrium and Templar abilities and poor Alistair ends up looking like a liar. 

[Danny Boy 7]

R2s Muse wrote...

Hmm good point about Cullen in the cage in Kinloch Hold. I wonder if somehow they were feeding him lyrium during that since according to Evangeline in Asunder, it only takes a week to start feeling withdrawal.

On Alistair, I know there's been lots of confusion and discussion on that. In the Thedas UK interview DG said:

Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards.

Which suggests to me that Alistair had taken a little in order to learn how to do those things, but he was never taking it regularly enough to become addicted.

Hmm that's interesting to me, since Alistair uses his templar abilities in the "Those Who Speak" comic. Does that mean he's still taking doses? I mean it's been over what, ten years?

[R2s Muse]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Hmm good point about Cullen in the cage in Kinloch Hold. I wonder if somehow they were feeding him lyrium during that since according to Evangeline in Asunder, it only takes a week to start feeling withdrawal.

On Alistair, I know there's been lots of confusion and discussion on that. In the Thedas UK interview DG said:

Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards.

Which suggests to me that Alistair had taken a little in order to learn how to do those things, but he was never taking it regularly enough to become addicted.

Hmm that's interesting to me, since Alistair uses his templar abilities in the "Those Who Speak" comic. Does that mean he's still taking doses? I mean it's been over what, ten years?

Hmm, he does? I don't remember that. Doesn't he mostly fight the Stenishok?

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Hmm good point about Cullen in the cage in Kinloch Hold. I wonder if somehow they were feeding him lyrium during that since according to Evangeline in Asunder, it only takes a week to start feeling withdrawal.

On Alistair, I know there's been lots of confusion and discussion on that. In the Thedas UK interview DG said:

Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards.

Which suggests to me that Alistair had taken a little in order to learn how to do those things, but he was never taking it regularly enough to become addicted.

LOL DG changes his mind about lyrium and Templar abilities and poor Alistair ends up looking like a liar. 

LOL I know!  Altho, I guess we could just say that Alistair's a conspiracy theorist. Bwahaha!

[Danny Boy 7]

R2s Muse wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Hmm good point about Cullen in the cage in Kinloch Hold. I wonder if somehow they were feeding him lyrium during that since according to Evangeline in Asunder, it only takes a week to start feeling withdrawal.

On Alistair, I know there's been lots of confusion and discussion on that. In the Thedas UK interview DG said:

Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards.

Which suggests to me that Alistair had taken a little in order to learn how to do those things, but he was never taking it regularly enough to become addicted.

Hmm that's interesting to me, since Alistair uses his templar abilities in the "Those Who Speak" comic. Does that mean he's still taking doses? I mean it's been over what, ten years?

Hmm, he does? I don't remember that. Doesn't he mostly fight the Stenishok?

He uses it against the Magister when he does that shadowy dragon thing.

[Newschmoo]

I kind of got the impression from DAO that Alistair wasn't taking it. Maybe he started taking it again when his abilities were no longer effective? Who knows in the universe of Dragon Age!

[R2s Muse]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Hmm good point about Cullen in the cage in Kinloch Hold. I wonder if somehow they were feeding him lyrium during that since according to Evangeline in Asunder, it only takes a week to start feeling withdrawal.

On Alistair, I know there's been lots of confusion and discussion on that. In the Thedas UK interview DG said:

Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards.

Which suggests to me that Alistair had taken a little in order to learn how to do those things, but he was never taking it regularly enough to become addicted.

Hmm that's interesting to me, since Alistair uses his templar abilities in the "Those Who Speak" comic. Does that mean he's still taking doses? I mean it's been over what, ten years?

Hmm, he does? I don't remember that. Doesn't he mostly fight the Stenishok?

He uses it against the Magister when he does that shadowy dragon thing.

HUH... was just looking THAT up. I guess I thought he just hit him, and was somehow magic resistant. Although  afterwards the magister dude says, "He is a templar." So it must be some kind of templar juju he used. Interesting!  I never noticed that.

yeah... I have no idea on the lyrium t hing. I'd like to think that the encyclopedi will tell us... but I'm pretty sure I've now read all the lyrium and templar pages.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 26 février 2013 - 09:11 .

[LolaLei]

So let's get this straight, even if you take a little bit of lyrium just once you can keep your abilities for weeks, possibly years after. BUT if you've been taking lyrium for a prolonged amount of time and you stop taking it then you'll pretty much die within a week or two?

... Hm.

Modifié par LolaLei, 26 février 2013 - 09:08 .

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

So let's get this straight, even if you take a little bit of lyrium you can keep your abilities for weeks, possibly years after. BUT if you've been taking lyrium for a prolonged amount of time and you stop taking it then you'll pretty much die within a week or two?

... Hm.

LOL Can we say.... handwaving it, Bioware?

[LolaLei]

Never before has a gif been so appropriate! 

[R2s Muse]

Yeah, it would be nice learn the truth behind the conspiracy. For all we know, Evangeline had been hoodwinked, too. Although that first hand account in World of Thedas made the addiction sound pretty hardcore.

[Newschmoo]

Ha ha, love it!

[LolaLei]

Until informed otherwise, I'm gonna go with the theory that they use lyrium as a way to control the Templars, despite the fact that it gives them "an edge" I reckon the same results could be achieved with a much smaller dosage lol.

[Danny Boy 7]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

So let's get this straight, even if you take a little bit of lyrium you can keep your abilities for weeks, possibly years after. BUT if you've been taking lyrium for a prolonged amount of time and you stop taking it then you'll pretty much die within a week or two?

... Hm.

LOL Can we say.... handwaving it, Bioware?

Lol yeah. I imagine that like the Grey Warden 30yr thing that they originally had one thing in mind, but then couldn't explain why they'd need the lyrium in the first place

[R2s Muse]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

So let's get this straight, even if you take a little bit of lyrium you can keep your abilities for weeks, possibly years after. BUT if you've been taking lyrium for a prolonged amount of time and you stop taking it then you'll pretty much die within a week or two?

... Hm.

LOL Can we say.... handwaving it, Bioware?

Lol yeah. I imagine that like the Grey Warden 30yr thing that they originally had one thing in mind, but then couldn't explain why they'd need the lyrium in the first place

Well, I heard that the 30 yr thing was just a mistake. With lyrium, DG has acknowledged gameplay limitations in how they wanted to implement lyrium addiction in DA:O. That if you consume too much, you become addicted and it has diminishing returns. His post makes it sound like, if you can keep it to a manageable level, you don't get addicted. Except that in practice, every magic user got addicted. LOL

David Gaider wrote...

Taritu wrote...
if there's a DAO 2, I'd LOVE to see lyrium addiction.  I mean, the way I had Wynne and Morrigan swilling back lyrium...

So would I. The implementation we had was that, if the addiction developed, the use of lyrium had diminishing returns. You needed more and got less. The problem we encountered, as you point out, is that mages pretty much needed to drink lyrium potions. Addiction was practically guaranteed. So there needed to be some method of dealing with the addiction without rendering it pointless, and ideally some kind of story implication...

...and you can see why it suddenly became costly. If we could come up with some other implementation that
was meaningful, I'd like to see return in the future -- it was something templar characters were meant to face as well as mages, after all. Suggestions would be welcome... though perhaps in another thread.

My feeling is that templars need lyrium to do their thing. But the confusion comes in with the addiction and how it works.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 26 février 2013 - 09:28 .

[thats1evildude]

Not really that different from RL drugs, really. The more you take, the more you need.

[LolaLei]

Christ, the way my mages were chugging back the lyrium potions they would've ended up deformed to all hell by the end of the game LOL!

[Danny Boy 7]

R2s Muse wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

So let's get this straight, even if you take a little bit of lyrium you can keep your abilities for weeks, possibly years after. BUT if you've been taking lyrium for a prolonged amount of time and you stop taking it then you'll pretty much die within a week or two?

... Hm.

LOL Can we say.... handwaving it, Bioware?

Lol yeah. I imagine that like the Grey Warden 30yr thing that they originally had one thing in mind, but then couldn't explain why they'd need the lyrium in the first place

Well, I heard that the 30 yr thing was just a mistake. With lyrium, DG has acknowledged gameplay limitations in how they wanted to implement lyrium addiction in DA:O. That if you consume too much, you become addicted and it has diminishing returns. His post makes it sound like, if you can keep it to a manageable level, you don't get addicted. Except that in practice, every magic user got addicted. LOL

David Gaider wrote...

Taritu wrote...
if there's a DAO 2, I'd LOVE to see lyrium addiction.  I mean, the way I had Wynne and Morrigan swilling back lyrium...

So would I. The implementation we had was that, if the addiction developed, the use of lyrium had diminishing returns. You needed more and got less. The problem we encountered, as you point out, is that mages pretty much needed to drink lyrium potions. Addiction was practically guaranteed. So there needed to be some method of dealing with the addiction without rendering it pointless, and ideally some kind of story implication...

...and you can see why it suddenly became costly. If we could come up with some other implementation that
was meaningful, I'd like to see return in the future -- it was something templar characters were meant to face as well as mages, after all. Suggestions would be welcome... though perhaps in another thread.

My feeling is that templars need lyrium to do their thing. But the confusion comes in with the addiction and how it works.

I imagine that they only need a certain amount, however excessive use of their abilities cause them to have to use it often. If I go by gameplay, we have the abilities regardless of whether we have mana and so due to templar duties they use their abilities a lot thus resulting in constant potions during combat and through that lyrium addiction....

Thats what I think anyway