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[CulturalGeekGirl]

@Galagraphia Cookies accepted! It means a lot to me when people appreciate my little ramblings.

I think people tend to have a hard time putting themselves in other characters' shoes, especially once they've picked a "side". It's a problem that happens with some of the other more controversial characters I love as well. People want to boil them down to their most stereotypical aspect, and judge them based on that.

Edit: Augh top. I really love the art for the Ask the Knight Captain tumblr. It's gorgeous, and the writing is perfect as well.


That one in particular is a perfect example of what I find so interesting about Cullen. His casual explanation and dismissal of the whole thing, essentially saying "Yes, I don't get enough sleep and probably won't for the foreseeable future. It's just part of my life and duties."

That's who Cullen is. His personal happiness and well-being are not at the top of his list of priorities. That should be unique enough to give someone pause and make them look at him more closely.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 08 septembre 2011 - 09:44 .

[R2s Muse]

I second Gala's cookies, CGG! I'm thinking of bookmarking one or two of those for future reference to just say "See here!"

Also agree about Ask the Knight Captain. So clever.

[Galagraphia]

@CulturalGeekGirl I do love reading your posts! Write more!
Ah, this post from the ask blog is... sad. I remember David Gaider once said in defence of Alistair that Ali thinks about himself and his own needs very a little. Cullen sometimes seems like he denies himself a lot of things willingly. Even things other templars allow themselves to do. It's like he's more strict to himself than to anybody else. And he's so ok with it.

Also, was thinking about his forbidden love thing again. In DA comic another templar and another mage fell in love, it was cute at first and it turned into a tragedy in the end When I read the first issue, I wanted to hug Cullen and thank him that he was such a gentleman with my f!mages.

[R2s Muse]

Galagraphia wrote...

Cullen sometimes seems like he denies himself a lot of things willingly. Even things other templars allow themselves to do. It's like he's more strict to himself than to anybody else. And he's so ok with it.

I sort of see this as the characteristics he would think are important for a leader. That he would hold himself to a higher standard because, in addition to the requirements of the Order, he follows his own internal compass. So I guess I had been seeing it as a positive thing instead of the slightly more dire notion of constantly denying himself something, which makes him sound so much more tragic. Like he's actually got that hair shirt sitting in his closet. Eek.

[Galagraphia]

A random doodle:

Also, Obsession update.

Modifié par Galagraphia, 09 septembre 2011 - 10:28 .

[Avilia]

 I don't think Cullen sees doing his duty as a way of punishing himself or even as an onerous thing.  Its who he is, rightly or wrongly, duty is his prime consideration.  If he subordinates his desire for anything outside that to his sense of duty, its just the way things are.

You're right R2 I think, he sees that as the way a leader should be and does his best to live up to his own ideals.  Perhaps without realising that he is the person he's trying to be.  Which in itself is quite poignant .

I was trying to think of someone I could compare him to but wasn't successful.  You know I just had a very strange thought of who that aspect of his personality reminds me of but I won't say because it'll sound strange.

I did think this though - in another story Cullen would make a good Cousland - "A Cousland always does their duty"  (Oh now I'm in trouble /runs)

Hmm I wonder if I'm head canoning now, oh well, you can all tell me I'm nuts if I am.

Edit - Gala!  That is gorgeous 

Modifié par Avilia, 09 septembre 2011 - 10:48 .

[R2s Muse]

Yay, Obsession!Cullen can be (sorta) happy again!

[R2s Muse]

Avilia, I have to agree that I don't think he views his job as onerous, but it's just what he does.
I esp. like your point: "Perhaps without realizing that he is the person he's trying to be."

I was trying to think back to all the things he says in DA2, and altho he does acknowledge, sadly, that being a templar is a losing battle, he also thinks his duty is important and necessary. By and large, he seems pretty satisfied... not exactly happy-go-lucky, but not a walking sacrifice.

Heh heh, "a Templar always does their duty." I like it.

... which reminds me... Word is constantly capitalizing "templar" for me, whereas Cullen/writers typically don't. GAH! I can see differentiating: "the Templars" (proper noun) vs. "his templar sword" but the dictionary disagrees. Thoughts?? Any professional grammarians out there?

Modifié par R2s Muse, 09 septembre 2011 - 11:08 .

[Galagraphia]

Oh, I didn't mean it's a bad thing. He definitely things that being focused on his job is a good thing. And, well, after Uldred it probably helps him to go on.

@Avilia, I'm probably risking, but the only person I could compare Cullen with was inspector Javert from Les Miserables. But I love all Hugo villains, because they are so fantastically human! And I always respected Javert for his devotion to the Law. In that story the law was bad, not the person who represented it. Same with Cullen, though as a person he's more appealing than Javert, imho.

Tu-tu-ru-du-tu, inspector Cullen...

[Avilia]

I love that pic - Rylock looks so annoyed ;-)

After refreshing myself on Javert I think you're onto something. The blind devotion to duty/law (without Cullen showing the cruelty of Javert) is very similar. (I make no claims to being an expert on Hugo btw so take that with some salt).

Modifié par Avilia, 09 septembre 2011 - 11:31 .

[R2s Muse]

Ah, Javert is so tragic, tho! He's devoted to the law, but so slavishly that he can't possibly accept that anyone could ever be rehabilitated. I suppose mages can't ever be, technically, rehabilitated, either... since they'll always BE mages... but can be treated humanely. I always felt that Javert was a little inhuman himself, because he was so inflexible. So inflexible he kills himself over it... eek. I would hope Cullen wouldn't go that far.

But, I do love inspector Cullen!<3

EDIT: Similar caveats to Avilia, def not a Hugo expert. In fact, in full disclosure, I'm most familiar with the musical. LOL

Modifié par R2s Muse, 09 septembre 2011 - 11:40 .

[Avilia]

Re: Templar v. templar. I *think* Templar is correct for the real world Knights Templar because the term is a proper noun even though it is a shortened version of their full name. (Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon). I think (again) that it's still correctly capitalised because it's a proper noun when used 'Templar sword'.

Eek. I'm probably all wrong and will be pelted with grammer fruit ;-)

Anyway how that real world answer translates to the in game Templars I'm not sure. I usually captialise it but that is only due to the real world equivalent. So that probably wasn't very helpful but I did get to use the Templar's full name which is always fun...(what?)

[RagingCyclone]

Avilia wrote...

Re: Templar v. templar. I *think* Templar is correct for the real world Knights Templar because the term is a proper noun even though it is a shortened version of their full name. (Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon). I think (again) that it's still correctly capitalised because it's a proper noun when used 'Templar sword'.

Eek. I'm probably all wrong and will be pelted with grammer fruit ;-)

Anyway how that real world answer translates to the in game Templars I'm not sure. I usually captialise it but that is only due to the real world equivalent. So that probably wasn't very helpful but I did get to use the Templar's full name which is always fun...(what?)

You are not wrong. Templar is the proper spelling because it is a name, not a simple noun or a pronoun. No pelting for you today.

[R2s Muse]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Avilia wrote...

Re: Templar v. templar. I *think* Templar is correct for the real world Knights Templar because the term is a proper noun even though it is a shortened version of their full name. (Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon). I think (again) that it's still correctly capitalised because it's a proper noun when used 'Templar sword'.

Eek. I'm probably all wrong and will be pelted with grammer fruit ;-)

Anyway how that real world answer translates to the in game Templars I'm not sure. I usually captialise it but that is only due to the real world equivalent. So that probably wasn't very helpful but I did get to use the Templar's full name which is always fun...(what?)

You are not wrong. Templar is the proper spelling because it is a name, not a simple noun or a pronoun. No pelting for you today.

Thanks all. It does seem better to capitalize. But see below as one of the many sources of my confusion...

[RagingCyclone]

R2--the devs may have done this in the game to set the two apart, real world and ingame. While both have the same name, their functions are not remotely close to each other but the name. Simplistically speaking, Templars of the real world were essentially warrior bankers, and the templars of the game are glorified prison guards.

[R2s Muse]

RagingCyclone wrote...

R2--the devs may have done this in the game to set the two apart, real world and ingame. While both have the same name, their functions are not remotely close to each other but the name. Simplistically speaking, Templars of the real world were essentially warrior bankers, and the templars of the game are glorified prison guards.

Hmm, interesting point. Nevertheless, even in game, templar is the official name of their prison guard order, right? "Order of Templars" from the codex, but then always non-capitalized.  So you're suggesting they just deliberately did it wrong. So, to get meta for a moment -- in real-life fan fiction, capitalize or not capitalize?  I've been trying to follow the in-game convention, but I'm sick of stopping Word from capitalizing...

[RagingCyclone]

I've been capitalizing it out of habit. My degree is in history, so some of those habits for me are hard to break. lol

[R2s Muse]

LOL, I'm a scientist by training,so that has broken me of all my good writing skills long ago... Gah, overthinking...

So, on another topic... I'm still struck by Gala's parallel between Cullen and Les Mis's Javert (@Gala - Thanks for that!). I've been thinking about the influences on such a character to become so wedded to the law and duty. IIRC, Javert was born inside a jail. With those as his formative experiences with good vs. evil, law vs. chaos, and he sees the world as black and white where one must choose a side.

As a parallel, what would have given Cullen that strong commitment to law and duty? I'm now imagining, what if he also had been born into the Circle system, e.g. born to a mage. Then, instead of being whisked away to the Chantry and never told where he came from, he was constantly reminded that he was "born of sin" or some such, instilling in him a very strong sense of Chantry-version right vs. wrong. And, so he's been conditioned to choose "right."

Anyhoo, this is just giving me an interesting new way of thinking about his character.

edit: for silly typos

Modifié par R2s Muse, 09 septembre 2011 - 04:02 .

[Galagraphia]

@R2, oooh, that would make sense! I mean, if it's true, then his celibate is his own way to avoid bringing another mage into this world. But I doubt the priests tell mage kids who their parents were. It can be dangerous. Maybe Cullen found something, or suspected something. And that's why he had more sympathy for mages - one of them could be his mother.
Awww, the angst potential!
Personally, I always thought he was a mage's child, he just didn't know about it (in Obsession he was told his mother died and his father left him in the Chantry). I never thought he could know about it and that it could affect his personality! Interesting (and bloody awesome!)

Modifié par Galagraphia, 09 septembre 2011 - 06:23 .

[Avilia]

Yes, Cullen, yes you are.

I only have one, not problem, but concern about Cullen being an orphan with one parent who he may have been lied to about. If Bioware do indeed love us and give us more Cullen (the more the better) in a future game, that backstory is very similar to Alistair's. Orphan, one parent not who they were told they were (if you subscribe to the Fiona as mother theory), Eh maybe not similar enough to worry about now I've typed it up.

Ignoring my rambling there - I wonder if the events at the Circle Tower are one reason he's so determined to do his duty to the exclusion of everything else. He certainly doesn't seem quite that boots and all when you chat to him after your harrowing. He's certainly dedicated (and sooo cute) but not very rah rah.

If he blames himself for what happened - "If I'd paid more attention, been a better Templar, been less lax in my duties" etc - even subconsciously then that might push him to see anything that distracts his attention from his duty as potentially causing the same disaster. "I can't look away from it for even a second".

Does that make a bit of sense? I'll have some coffee and reread it.

Edit.  Hmm I think I may restated a lot of accepted Cullen stuff there..oh well.  Nothing like stating the obvious to get the day started.

Modifié par Avilia, 09 septembre 2011 - 10:09 .

[R2s Muse]

@Avilia, I like the idea that his experience with Uldred could be the compelling reason for him to be more committed to duty. I don't have a good sense of whether he was rah rah duty before all the torture, but it's conceivable that his "perfect templar" commitment is relatively new. It could even be part of his healing process, since his duty is something concrete that could help ground him.

re: his past, what I was suggesting was more that he wasn't necessarily an orphan but more a ward of the Chantry following being born to a mage. But instead of being lied to, he's told rather often that his mom is a bad mage who shouldn't have had him in the first place. Imagining all the horrible brain shenanigans something like that would cause might be interesting fodder for a story... hmm... But, I don't know that I'd wish that on his actual Bioware backstory, tho. He's got enough to deal with. LOL

edit: that pic is still one of my faves!  heh heh just love awesome!Cullen.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 09 septembre 2011 - 11:16 .

[Avilia]

@R2 Sorry, my reading comprehension is bad at times (a lot of times when I get excited about replying without properly understanding someone's actual point - apologies).

[R2s Muse]

Avilia wrote...

@R2 Sorry, my reading comprehension is bad at times (a lot of times when I get excited about replying without properly understanding someone's actual point - apologies).

Hey, no worries. I think that IS what Gala was saying her current backstory is on him.


And, for fun...


EDIT - EEK NOT A SINGLE SHIRTLESS CULLEN ON THIS PAGE???? BLASPHEMY. REMEDIED.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 10 septembre 2011 - 10:17 .

[rak72]

I don't think he was super Rah Rah before the Uldred incident, either. I think he was always a serious person, though.

Some Cullen smoochies:

[Monica21]

rak72 wrote...

I don't think he was super Rah Rah before the Uldred incident, either. I think he was always a serious person, though.

No, I don't think so either. If he was super Rah Rah then there was no way he'd have been as conversational with the female mage as he was.

I think the Uldred incident did make him potentially dangerous for a time, but he managed to resolve that in himself, and that's quite a feat.