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[R2s Muse]

cJohnOne wrote...

I recieved my World of Thedas book today from amazon. Just in case your interested in when the book came out in the US.

Yeah, it's interesting, as I got mine in the U.S. almost a week ago. I still maintain that they were overwhelmed by the demand. LOL

[R2s Muse]

Newschmoo wrote...

The Thrask situation was never fully explained. I kind of thought he was a templar, got married, had a mage child (there has been discussions that templars may be more susceptible to this) and kept her hidden to protect her (I think she was an apostate mage).

Since  no one knows he's her father, it makes me wonder if no one therefore knew he was involved with Olivia's mom. Maybe Thrask was breaking the rules to see her, knowing he'd never get permission to marry the lady, keeping his relationship a secret so no one could tell him he coudn't see her. Next thing you know, pregnant, oops mage child! Teary scene where Thrask pledges to his lady love not to worry, that he'll watch over their child.

Oh, frak. Plot bunny.

[LolaLei]

Commander Kurt wrote...

LolaLei, I agree about the "warrior priest" thing. But I have a question (since I seem to gravitate to this place);

Would the appeal be the same romancing Cullen as a warrior or a rogue, or is much of the tension invested in the mage-templar relationship?

Mainly I'm interested to see if he would romance a mage, lol. I actually prefer playing as a rogue but I'm only really planning to do my first playthrough as a mage to see how npcs and companions react to him/her, especially since they didn't really react at all in DA2.

I'd say Cullen is definitely an intriguing character in his own right to be worth romancing with any class, but I'm curious to see if doing it with a mage (hur hur) would add an extra layer to his romance arc, or if it would have any adverse reactions on his part.

[LolaLei]

I was actually really gutted when Grace killed him in Act 3, granted he was a little naive with his trust but he was a good man.

[Danny Boy 7]

LolaLei wrote...

I was actually really gutted when Grace killed him in Act 3, granted he was a little naive with his trust but he was a good man.

You know I would have loved to see that whole little rebellion plot expanded upon. Might have been cool to join up and try to overthrow Meredith.

[meanieweenie]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

I was actually really gutted when Grace killed him in Act 3, granted he was a little naive with his trust but he was a good man.

You know I would have loved to see that whole little rebellion plot expanded upon. Might have been cool to join up and try to overthrow Meredith.

I'm interested to see how many underground mage cells pop out of the woodwork now that the façade of order has been dropped. I imagine the Templars to have their "Oh snap!" moment as they realize the mages are much better organized and ready to fight than they'd expected.

[Commander Kurt]

SilverMoonDragon wrote...

Pretty much the same here ^. I prefer playing as a Rogue as well, but I'm considering playing as Mage in my first playthrough of DA3...and that decision will be sealed if it turns out Cullen is a companion and a romance option, the possible opportunities of added tension, questioning of beliefs about Mages, being proven wrong (or right in some instances maybe) about Mages, etc...really it is just too good to pass up  

LolaLei wrote...

Mainly I'm interested to see if he would romance a mage, lol. I actually prefer playing as a rogue but I'm only really planning to do my first playthrough as a mage to see how npcs and companions react to him/her, especially since they didn't really react at all in DA2.

I'd say Cullen is definitely an intriguing character in his own right to be worth romancing with any class, but I'm curious to see if doing it with a mage (hur hur) would add an extra layer to his romance arc, or if it would have any adverse reactions on his part.

R2s Muse wrote...

But, then, DA3 will bring a completely new dynamic. I don't see Cullen ever really being ok with getting involved with a Circle mage under his care, since there are so many icky problems involved in that power differential independent of the blatant rule-breaking for a rule follower. In DA3, however, there are no Circles. It isn't even clear if magic is officially illegal then, or what, so I think that could bring a range of interesting NEW conflicts for a DA3!Cullen x mage interaction.

Cullen hooking up with a blood mage would be a bit... jarring.

The problem as I see it would be if he just turns out to be Fenris ver 1.2 with the fear of mages thing, and I could see bioware avoiding making him a LI just to not have to deal with it.

Still, it's easy to get around via writing, but I'm guessing they won't play off the mage-templar thing if they do the romance (which is why I was curious about how you guys look at it).

[R2s Muse]

Commander Kurt wrote...

Cullen hooking up with a blood mage would be a bit... jarring.

The problem as I see it would be if he just turns out to be Fenris ver 1.2 with the fear of mages thing, and I could see bioware avoiding making him a LI just to not have to deal with it.

Still, it's easy to get around via writing, but I'm guessing they won't play off the mage-templar thing if they do the romance (which is why I was curious about how you guys look at it).

I don't really see him being a retread of Fenris, tho, because there are many different dimensions to him than fearing mages. I think he still has scars from blood mages, but instead of fearing mages, I think he would fear trusting a mage implicitly. I actually see his issues being more about duty and intimacy. Realistically, if he's a LI, his romance won't be all about mages, because he'd presumably be open to all classes.

One idea I really like is the notion of how he has spent his entire life in service, worrying about the collective good with little regard for himself. So, then you try to romance him... Can he shift from worry about everyone to worrying about one individual?  What if he does begin to worry most about protecting that individual above all others, what happens to his duty to the collective? That's just one of several directions I think they can go with him. All we really know is that, according to DG, he has "angst" in his future. But there are many options.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 26 avril 2013 - 01:46 .

[Danny Boy 7]

SilverMoonDragon wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

LolaLei, I agree about the "warrior priest" thing. But I have a question (since I seem to gravitate to this place);

Would the appeal be the same romancing Cullen as a warrior or a rogue, or is much of the tension invested in the mage-templar relationship?

Mainly I'm interested to see if he would romance a mage, lol. I actually prefer playing as a rogue but I'm only really planning to do my first playthrough as a mage to see how npcs and companions react to him/her, especially since they didn't really react at all in DA2.

I'd say Cullen is definitely an intriguing character in his own right to be worth romancing with any class, but I'm curious to see if doing it with a mage (hur hur) would add an extra layer to his romance arc, or if it would have any adverse reactions on his part.

Pretty much the same here ^. I prefer playing as a Rogue as well, but I'm considering playing as Mage in my first playthrough of DA3...and that decision will be sealed if it turns out Cullen is a companion and a romance option, the possible opportunities of added tension, questioning of beliefs about Mages, being proven wrong (or right in some instances maybe) about Mages, etc...really it is just too good to pass up  

I'll probably be playing as a rogue, though it depends on the CGI trailer to be perfectly honest. I'm actually afraid the mage and templar class/specializations might eclipse everything else. I tend to choose the class/origin I feel will get the most "flags" in dialogue and have the biggest emotional content.

[Danny Boy 7]

meanieweenie wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

I was actually really gutted when Grace killed him in Act 3, granted he was a little naive with his trust but he was a good man.

You know I would have loved to see that whole little rebellion plot expanded upon. Might have been cool to join up and try to overthrow Meredith.

I'm interested to see how many underground mage cells pop out of the woodwork now that the façade of order has been dropped. I imagine the Templars to have their "Oh snap!" moment as they realize the mages are much better organized and ready to fight than they'd expected.

Would be cool to see Ander's underground.

[meanieweenie]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

I was actually really gutted when Grace killed him in Act 3, granted he was a little naive with his trust but he was a good man.

You know I would have loved to see that whole little rebellion plot expanded upon. Might have been cool to join up and try to overthrow Meredith.

I'm interested to see how many underground mage cells pop out of the woodwork now that the façade of order has been dropped. I imagine the Templars to have their "Oh snap!" moment as they realize the mages are much better organized and ready to fight than they'd expected.

Would be cool to see Ander's underground.

You mean in hiding or dead?  Cuz I straight up knifed that punk. lol But yes, it would be fun to see what kind of role he'd take in the aftermath of Kirkwall. Do you think he'd be embraced as a hero or would the mages shun him for his actions?

[Commander Kurt]

SilverMoonDragon wrote...

Pretty much the same here ^. I prefer playing as a Rogue as well, but I'm considering playing as Mage in my first playthrough of DA3...and that decision will be sealed if it turns out Cullen is a companion and a romance option, the possible opportunities of added tension, questioning of beliefs about Mages, being proven wrong (or right in some instances maybe) about Mages, etc...really it is just too good to pass up

LolaLei wrote...

Mainly I'm interested to see if he would romance a mage, lol. I actually prefer playing as a rogue but I'm only really planning to do my first playthrough as a mage to see how npcs and companions react to him/her, especially since they didn't really react at all in DA2.

I'd say Cullen is definitely an intriguing character in his own right to be worth romancing with any class, but I'm curious to see if doing it with a mage (hur hur) would add an extra layer to his romance arc, or if it would have any adverse reactions on his part.

R2s Muse wrote...

But, then, DA3 will bring a completely new dynamic. I don't see Cullen ever really being ok with getting involved with a Circle mage under his care, since there are so many icky problems involved in that power differential independent of the blatant rule-breaking for a rule follower. In DA3, however, there are no Circles. It isn't even clear if magic is officially illegal then, or what, so I think that could bring a range of interesting NEW conflicts for a DA3!Cullen x mage interaction.

Cullen hooking up with a blood mage would be a bit... jarring.

The problem as I see it would be if he just turns out to be Fenris ver 1.2 with the fear of mages thing, and I could see bioware avoiding making him a LI just to not have to deal with it.

Still, it's easy to get around via writing, but I'm guessing they won't play off the mage-templar thing if they do the romance (which is why I was curious about how you guys look at it).

Modifié par Commander Kurt, 26 avril 2013 - 02:07 .

[Danny Boy 7]

R2s Muse wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

Cullen hooking up with a blood mage would be a bit... jarring.

The problem as I see it would be if he just turns out to be Fenris ver 1.2 with the fear of mages thing, and I could see bioware avoiding making him a LI just to not have to deal with it.

Still, it's easy to get around via writing, but I'm guessing they won't play off the mage-templar thing if they do the romance (which is why I was curious about how you guys look at it).

I don't really see him being a retread of Fenris, tho, because there are many different dimensions to him than fearing mages. I think he still has scars from blood mages, but instead of fearing mages, I think he would fear trusting a mage implicitly. I actually see his issues being more about duty and intimacy. Realistically, if he's a LI, his romance won't be all about mages, because he'd presumably be open to all classes.

One idea I really like is the notion of how he has spent his entire life in service, worrying about the collective good with little regard for himself. So, then you try to romance him... Can he shift from worry about everyone to worrying about one individual?  What if he does begin to worry most about protecting that individual above all others, what happens to his duty to the collective? That's just one of several directions I think they can go with him. All we really know is that, according to DG, he has "angst" in his future. But there are many options.

I agree that there is a bit of a difference between the basis for any disgust for mages between Fenris and Cullen. They've both been tortured/seen the worst in mages first hand, but for Fenris he never had another perspective until after he'd reached Kirkwall. Cullen on the other hand actually felt a little bad for the mages but was betrayed, then he was betrayed by the templars. It's actually interesting to imagine where his loyalties lay right now.

I think that...if anyone sees connections between him and Fenris (by the end of the game) they'll be looking at the broad "Anti-Mage" category that they might fall into.

It's sort of like how people look at Isabela and don't see anything past the promiscious pirate. There is more to it, but they either don't want to look for it (for whatever reason) or they are just occupied with another character. I mean I know very little about Merrill because I (not intentionally) didn't use her that often, but Isabela, Carver and Varric are characters I know very well.

On the other hand Cullen very well could unintentionally be Fenris 2.0 in his mage hate and then be switched around by the PC.

I can't wait to see.

@R2: Want more The Coming Storm

[Danny Boy 7]

meanieweenie wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

I was actually really gutted when Grace killed him in Act 3, granted he was a little naive with his trust but he was a good man.

You know I would have loved to see that whole little rebellion plot expanded upon. Might have been cool to join up and try to overthrow Meredith.

I'm interested to see how many underground mage cells pop out of the woodwork now that the façade of order has been dropped. I imagine the Templars to have their "Oh snap!" moment as they realize the mages are much better organized and ready to fight than they'd expected.

Would be cool to see Ander's underground.

You mean in hiding or dead?  Cuz I straight up knifed that punk. lol But yes, it would be fun to see what kind of role he'd take in the aftermath of Kirkwall. Do you think he'd be embraced as a hero or would the mages shun him for his actions?

Well I meant the mages he was collaborating with during DA2.

He's alive in my playthrough because I wanted him to see all the people he hurt with his decision. Plus I hate killing companions lol.

I think some more anti-Chantry mages would see him as a hero striking a blow for the cause whereas others would see the act as a murderous. I think most would be in the latter group, but at the same time if they are backed into a corner they'd probably turn to the black sheep.

He might not even be a part of the mage army and instead be blowing more stuff up.

[R2s Muse]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

Cullen hooking up with a blood mage would be a bit... jarring.

The problem as I see it would be if he just turns out to be Fenris ver 1.2 with the fear of mages thing, and I could see bioware avoiding making him a LI just to not have to deal with it.

Still, it's easy to get around via writing, but I'm guessing they won't play off the mage-templar thing if they do the romance (which is why I was curious about how you guys look at it).

I don't really see him being a retread of Fenris, tho, because there are many different dimensions to him than fearing mages. I think he still has scars from blood mages, but instead of fearing mages, I think he would fear trusting a mage implicitly. I actually see his issues being more about duty and intimacy. Realistically, if he's a LI, his romance won't be all about mages, because he'd presumably be open to all classes.

One idea I really like is the notion of how he has spent his entire life in service, worrying about the collective good with little regard for himself. So, then you try to romance him... Can he shift from worry about everyone to worrying about one individual?  What if he does begin to worry most about protecting that individual above all others, what happens to his duty to the collective? That's just one of several directions I think they can go with him. All we really know is that, according to DG, he has "angst" in his future. But there are many options.

I agree that there is a bit of a difference between the basis for any disgust for mages between Fenris and Cullen. They've both been tortured/seen the worst in mages first hand, but for Fenris he never had another perspective until after he'd reached Kirkwall. Cullen on the other hand actually felt a little bad for the mages but was betrayed, then he was betrayed by the templars. It's actually interesting to imagine where his loyalties lay right now.

I think that...if anyone sees connections between him and Fenris (by the end of the game) they'll be looking at the broad "Anti-Mage" category that they might fall into.

This is what I was thinking, too. It's easy to think Cullen is all about hating mages, but I think he's interesting because he's had to think much more critically about it than that.

On the other hand Cullen very well could unintentionally be Fenris 2.0 in his mage hate and then be switched around by the PC.

True... but I think they'd have to roll back his character evolution a bit to cast him as a mage hater again. Then again... three years is a long time! So who knows!

@R2: Want more The Coming Storm

LOL I'm working on it! My ideas are percolating... I have to decide what my Kirkwall circa 9:40 would be like. For ex, did the Gallows' mages rebel? Percolating.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 26 avril 2013 - 02:22 .

[Danny Boy 7]

R2s Muse wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

Cullen hooking up with a blood mage would be a bit... jarring.

The problem as I see it would be if he just turns out to be Fenris ver 1.2 with the fear of mages thing, and I could see bioware avoiding making him a LI just to not have to deal with it.

Still, it's easy to get around via writing, but I'm guessing they won't play off the mage-templar thing if they do the romance (which is why I was curious about how you guys look at it).

I don't really see him being a retread of Fenris, tho, because there are many different dimensions to him than fearing mages. I think he still has scars from blood mages, but instead of fearing mages, I think he would fear trusting a mage implicitly. I actually see his issues being more about duty and intimacy. Realistically, if he's a LI, his romance won't be all about mages, because he'd presumably be open to all classes.

One idea I really like is the notion of how he has spent his entire life in service, worrying about the collective good with little regard for himself. So, then you try to romance him... Can he shift from worry about everyone to worrying about one individual?  What if he does begin to worry most about protecting that individual above all others, what happens to his duty to the collective? That's just one of several directions I think they can go with him. All we really know is that, according to DG, he has "angst" in his future. But there are many options.

I agree that there is a bit of a difference between the basis for any disgust for mages between Fenris and Cullen. They've both been tortured/seen the worst in mages first hand, but for Fenris he never had another perspective until after he'd reached Kirkwall. Cullen on the other hand actually felt a little bad for the mages but was betrayed, then he was betrayed by the templars. It's actually interesting to imagine where his loyalties lay right now.

I think that...if anyone sees connections between him and Fenris (by the end of the game) they'll be looking at the broad "Anti-Mage" category that they might fall into.

This is what I was thinking, too. It's easy to think Cullen is all about hating mages, but I think he's interesting because he's had to think much more critically about it than that.

On the other hand Cullen very well could unintentionally be Fenris 2.0 in his mage hate and then be switched around by the PC.

True... but I think they'd have to roll back his character evolution a bit to cast him as a mage hater again. Then again... three years is a long time! So who knows!

@R2: Want more The Coming Storm

LOL I'm working on it! My ideas are percolating... I have to decide what my Kirkwall circa 9:40 would be like. For ex, did the Gallows' mages rebel? Percolating.

1. I think it's that critical thinking that really separates Fenris and Cullen. Fenris hates mages, there is very little that will change his mind and though he won't kill every mage he comes across after DA2 he certainly has very little love for any of them that cross the line. Cullen on the other hand has seen the faults in both sides and very well might choose to abandon both or try to reform them. It's cool because he could go either way. 

2. I was thinking more along bad writing then roll back though I use "bad writing" loosely. I mean maybe there is something we just don't see because we are so close to the character? He could still have that underlying hate that just has been boiling for the past few years.

3. *Puts wood on the fire and pokes it*.....Yes, cook plot bunnies...cook.........

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

Cullen hooking up with a blood mage would be a bit... jarring.

The problem as I see it would be if he just turns out to be Fenris ver 1.2 with the fear of mages thing, and I could see bioware avoiding making him a LI just to not have to deal with it.

Still, it's easy to get around via writing, but I'm guessing they won't play off the mage-templar thing if they do the romance (which is why I was curious about how you guys look at it).

I don't really see him being a retread of Fenris, tho, because there are many different dimensions to him than fearing mages. I think he still has scars from blood mages, but instead of fearing mages, I think he would fear trusting a mage implicitly. I actually see his issues being more about duty and intimacy. Realistically, if he's a LI, his romance won't be all about mages, because he'd presumably be open to all classes.

One idea I really like is the notion of how he has spent his entire life in service, worrying about the collective good with little regard for himself. So, then you try to romance him... Can he shift from worry about everyone to worrying about one individual?  What if he does begin to worry most about protecting that individual above all others, what happens to his duty to the collective? That's just one of several directions I think they can go with him. All we really know is that, according to DG, he has "angst" in his future. But there are many options.

If the game is rushed then I could see people making comparisons to Fenris' story/romance arc, but hopefully we won't have to worry about them recycling the same story with Cullen.

Cullen is pretty complex character for someone that's had such little screen time, so I think there's plenty of things that could be done with him (given his past experiences and his completely unknown personal history) that I don't think we'd need to worry about him being too much like one of the other DA characters.

The one thing I hope is that he won't be going on about mages 24/7 or "the Templar plight" LOL! 

Modifié par LolaLei, 26 avril 2013 - 06:11 .

[meanieweenie]

LolaLei wrote...

If the game is rushed then I could see people making comparisons to Fenris' story/romance arc, but hopefully we won't have to worry about them recycling the same story with Cullen.

Cullen is pretty complex character for someone that's had such little screen time, so I think there's plenty of things that could be done with him (given his past experiences and his completely unknown personal history) that I don't think we'd need to worry about him being too much like one of the other DA characters.

The one thing I hope is that he won't be going on about mages 24/7 or "the Templar plight" LOL! 

Nah. He's got much more pressing matters... like how itchy his fur collar is. lol

[LolaLei]

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

If the game is rushed then I could see people making comparisons to Fenris' story/romance arc, but hopefully we won't have to worry about them recycling the same story with Cullen.

Cullen is pretty complex character for someone that's had such little screen time, so I think there's plenty of things that could be done with him (given his past experiences and his completely unknown personal history) that I don't think we'd need to worry about him being too much like one of the other DA characters.

The one thing I hope is that he won't be going on about mages 24/7 or "the Templar plight" LOL! 

Nah. He's got much more pressing matters... like how itchy his fur collar is. lol

 That's more like it!

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

meanieweenie wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

If the game is rushed then I could see people making comparisons to Fenris' story/romance arc, but hopefully we won't have to worry about them recycling the same story with Cullen.

Cullen is pretty complex character for someone that's had such little screen time, so I think there's plenty of things that could be done with him (given his past experiences and his completely unknown personal history) that I don't think we'd need to worry about him being too much like one of the other DA characters.

The one thing I hope is that he won't be going on about mages 24/7 or "the Templar plight" LOL! 

Nah. He's got much more pressing matters... like how itchy his fur collar is. lol

 That's more like it!

LOL

[LolaLei]

Y'know, if Cullen isn't a companion and that outfit in the survey leak turns out to just be the outfit he wears during his cameo or whatever, at least it'll be nice to see him wearing something other than full Templar uniform.

[Commander Kurt]

Well, I agree with all of you that it can certainly be avoided, and it would be a step back in his characterization. Still, he is adamant about mages not being "like you and me" and that they cannot be trusted.

It's like danny boy said about Isabella, of course there's more to the characters, but IF Cullen turn out to be a broody warrior with a strong anti-mage agenda it would be hard not seeing the resemblance. I hope they don't write him that way for this reason, but I was wondering if that would wreck the character for you guys.

If there would be a self-serving, frosty witch or a promiscuous pirate in the game they would battle with the same problem, even though the characters would be very different when you look closer.

They could do great things with him, I'm sure. I like the play on duty that r2 suggested, but I must admit that I hate romances that are difficult for internal reasons. If a guy ever touches on "its not you, its me", then I'll just agree with him and be on my merry way. I liked what they did with Alistair, where the relationship was easy and functional and sweet until the outside world tear you apart.

[Commander Kurt]

LolaLei wrote...

Y'know, if Cullen isn't a companion and that outfit in the survey leak turns out to just be the outfit he wears during his cameo or whatever, at least it'll be nice to see him wearing something other than full Templar uniform.

And, naturally, I google it just to find this...

http://vieralynn.tum...-the-bsn-cullen

I must say, I like the way you roll in here.

[LolaLei]

Commander Kurt wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Y'know, if Cullen isn't a companion and that outfit in the survey leak turns out to just be the outfit he wears during his cameo or whatever, at least it'll be nice to see him wearing something other than full Templar uniform.

And, naturally, I google it just to find this...

http://vieralynn.tum...-the-bsn-cullen

I must say, I like the way you roll in here.

LMAO! Oh, he can definitely wear that into battle! :lol: