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[LolaLei]

That's the thing, no one ever says that about Evangeline and she was equally as hardlined as Cullen was. How is it any different? Because she's shagging a mage and changed sides? That could well happen with Cullen if he's ever a romanceable companion, but I bet they wouldn't be praising him for his change of heart.

[Twice a Lady]

[quote]brushyourteeth wrote...

[quote]Twice a Lady wrote...

[quote]R2s Muse wrote...

Ah, also, welcome Twice a Lady and CrazyRah! Welcome to the red-headed stepchild corner of the forums. Stay a while! [/quote]
Thank you. I think I will stay vocal for awhile. I tend to lurk silently from the shadowy depths of forums or avoid them all together, but you are quality people in my books and I feel comfortable enough here to voice my opinions whether all agree with them or not. It's rather hard to find a respectable forum these days where all views are accepted even while being debated. The love of Cullen drew me to this thread, but your manners and class made me stick around.[/quote]

I'm so glad! And honestly, I'm not belligerent, I swear.   Today's outburst was a special occasion!!



[quote] You did not come across as belligerent at all. I have seen a lot of belligerent, and I assure you, you were not.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

So, on a totally separate topic, I was thinking again about Jessica Merizan's potential cosplay. We were thinking it would be a character we know... like Evangeline or Cassandra. But I was thinking today... if you were going to the very first DA3 cosplay, would you do a supporting character, or be the main character?? Like how she was Hawke for DA2? I'm callin' it now... Inquisitor!

Good point! It'll either be Cassandra because we all know her already, or the protagonist. Most likely the latter though.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

I agree with Batteries. The very simplest explanation for why Cullen is interesting is that he's the only Templar character we really have. Of course there have been others, but none with his depth or his dramatic insider circumstances, minor in the story though they've been.

The fact that he's so flawed and yet means so well definitely adds to the interest.

People say that the fans are only interested in him because of his crush on Amell/Surana, but that's not it for me, and probably not for most of us. Of course we love to be flattered and that scene was adorable, but by the time you return to Kinloch and he's locked in that bubble, you've been playing around in the world as a mage long enough to realize that people.don't.get.involved.with.mages. The dialogue you can have with Teagan makes that abundantly clear, Wynne lets you know what's expected (over and over again) and Anders reminds you that the most you could hope for is a momentary fling with another mage. The fact that Cullen could fall in love with a mage shows that he has empathy for them and does see them as equals.

Then the poor lad's world gets ripped apart. Ah, drama -- why you so heartbreaking?

Exactly. For all the brainwashing he'd likely endured during his training and Chantry teachings etc he still finds himself initally sympathising with them and, in some cases, crushing on one of them. Hell, even after all the crap he goes through in DA:O and DA2 he still ends up sympathising with the innocent ones and trying to protect them, be it via the pro-templar route where he tries to spare those 3 mages who beg for mercy, or siding with a mage Hawke and allowing him/her to escape/bowing. AND, if you send Feynriel to the circle he expresses concern and worries for the lad when he goes into a coma-like state, not to mention that he'll remember a female MAGE Warden lovingly. He's definitely not this mage-hating/mage-torturing fiend that some people like to think he is.

He really is the best templar character we have in terms of his experience giving us a perspective that we haven't seen yet. Sure, Alistair was a Templar but not for long enough to give any real insight and he hated being forced into the Order anyway. All the other "good templars" either died or ended up being foolish enough to ruin things by siding with blood mages and getting turned into an abomination or doing something stupid. You could count Evangeline, but she's only ever been shown in the book and probably won't be a companion given that the situation.

Agree. He also expressed regret that the Starkhaven mages die, if you go that path. I just don't see evidenced of him being a monster; he too often shows compassion toward the mages under his care. Of course, compassion doesn't mean he's about to let them all go free, so I can see why some people still have a problem with him personally since he reinforces the Circle paradigm.

Anyhoo, like you've all said, he just seems an obvious choice to give us insight into the mage-templar war going forward. Of course, they could introduce a completely new templar character to do something similar, but would be a waste of an opportunity, to my mind.

I've never killed them, so I totally didn't know that! What does he say?

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Where do you think Alistair would have stood, were he in Cullen's place dealing with Meredith/Karras/Alrik/Elthina/Feynriel/etc.? What would have been different with him in the Knight-Captain's shoes?

Hmm, good question. Trying to dredge up my memory of Alistair's feelings on the Circle. He was wary of Morrigan as an apostate, but one of the boons  he can give as King is to free the Circle, right?  The latter always makes me feel that he's a little bit pro-mage-freedom, which seems to me a big difference with Cullen. I just don't think Cullen would be cool with mage freedom unless you had a really good replacement system that protected everyone. But just opening the door and waving goodbye...? Just don't see that. (which is why I think seeing his reaction to a post-Circle world in DA3 would be fascinating. I mean, now every mage is an apostate... or rather, there are no apostates, because no Circles... :blink:).

Anyhoo... I suppose since I see Alistair being less wedded to the system, I could see him trying to fix things early on with Meredith by meddling. Also, he doesn't seem to have any particular reverence for chain of command... LOL I see him being a terrible templar. I imagine him getting demoted pretty quickly with Meredith, so in the end having little power with which to do much. But I have no doubt he also would have backed Hawke.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Agree. He also expressed regret that the Starkhaven mages die, if you go that path.

I've never killed them, so I totally didn't know that! What does he say?

It's just another one of those ambient one-liners.

“Ser Thrask said you tried to assist him with the Starkhaven apostates. I’m sorry they didn’t make it.”

[brushyourteeth]

Twice a Lady wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

I'm so glad! And honestly, I'm not belligerent, I swear.   Today's outburst was a special occasion!!

You did not come across as belligerent at all. I have seen a lot of belligerent, and I assure you, you were not.

Thank you. Seriously. 

[brushyourteeth]

R2s Muse wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Where do you think Alistair would have stood, were he in Cullen's place dealing with Meredith/Karras/Alrik/Elthina/Feynriel/etc.? What would have been different with him in the Knight-Captain's shoes?

Hmm, good question. Trying to dredge up my memory of Alistair's feelings on the Circle. He was wary of Morrigan as an apostate, but one of the boons  he can give as King is to free the Circle, right?  The latter always makes me feel that he's a little bit pro-mage-freedom, which seems to me a big difference with Cullen. I just don't think Cullen would be cool with mage freedom unless you had a really good replacement system that protected everyone. But just opening the door and waving goodbye...? Just don't see that. (which is why I think seeing his reaction to a post-Circle world in DA3 would be fascinating. I mean, now every mage is an apostate... or rather, there are no apostates, because no Circles... :blink:).

Anyhoo... I suppose since I see Alistair being less wedded to the system, I could see him trying to fix things early on with Meredith by meddling. Also, he doesn't seem to have any particular reverence for chain of command... LOL I see him being a terrible templar. I imagine him getting demoted pretty quickly with Meredith, so in the end having little power with which to do much. But I have no doubt he also would have backed Hawke.

Hmm... do you think he eventually would have turned out like Samson, maybe? But just less sleazy? 

... and then speaking of sleaze, do you think he'd get so fed up with his life as a Templar that he'd be partying at the Blooming Rose with the rest of the fellas? (and the er... "young ladies") 


**EDIT to say that I agree --- seeing Cullen post-Circle would be amazing. I can't even imagine that players who hate him wouldn't be interested in putting him in that situation and essentially saying "okay, Cullen -- your life's work/scapegoat/everything that defines your life so far is gone. Now who are you going to be?"

It's the equivalent of throwing a kid in the pool to teach him to swim. Not that Cullen is without drive or resources, but that's going to be a shock.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 16 mai 2013 - 02:39 .

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

 I just don't think Cullen would be cool with mage freedom unless you had a really good replacement system that protected everyone. But just opening the door and waving goodbye...? Just don't see that. (which is why I think seeing his reaction to a post-Circle world in DA3 would be fascinating. I mean, now every mage is an apostate... or rather, there are no apostates, because no Circles... :blink:). 

Gawd, that's a point I hadn't even considered! He's probably not gonna be too happy about all the mages being on the loose, but he's probably not going to be too pleased about the templars hunting them down to kill and needlessly torture the innocent ones. He's also probably not going to be please that the templars abandoned the Divine.

... He's going to be soooo confused and conflicted, poor thing! 

[Jean]

In DA2, if you made him king, he flat out says "I don't feel about mages the same way the chantry does" in his conversation, soooo...

I'd imagine him supporting sending Feynriel to the circle, though

[Twice a Lady]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Batteries wrote...

^^I thought it was interesting how he showed absolutely no shame or disdain in reminiscing about his Mage!Warden crush right in front of a group of people.

Disappoint it's only heard if you import an Amell.

Especially considering in Act 1 he was supposed to be all shameful and upset/angry about it (according to his codex). Perhaps that was just another inconsistency with the writing, but it easily works as part of his personal growth throughout the game, accidental or not.

Yeah... I dunno. I've been thinking a lot about that codex... and it strikes me now as an inconsistency. It could be that by Act 2 he's more at peace with it, but I dunno.

Could that be why they took it out? Inconsistency with the codex, I mean. My playthroughs with Amell imports no longer have mention of her in Cullen's codex like they used to.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Agree. He also expressed regret that the Starkhaven mages die, if you go that path.

I've never killed them, so I totally didn't know that! What does he say?

It's just another one of those ambient one-liners.

“Ser Thrask said you tried to assist him with the Starkhaven apostates. I’m sorry they didn’t make it.”

... Aw, bless him! See, he's not bad... he was just scripted that way! :lol:

[brushyourteeth]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Agree. He also expressed regret that the Starkhaven mages die, if you go that path.

I've never killed them, so I totally didn't know that! What does he say?

It's just another one of those ambient one-liners.

“Ser Thrask said you tried to assist him with the Starkhaven apostates. I’m sorry they didn’t make it.”

... Aw, bless him! See, he's not bad... he was just scripted that way! :lol:

[LolaLei]

Have you noticed that DG and co joke about him "sitting on the fence" a lot with that Tim guy who they've labelled as Cullen? I wonder if that is some reflection of his mindset in DA3, not really knowing who's in the wrong and just kinda winging it until the protagonist encourages him one way or the other, or he comes to his own conclusion.

[Jean]

 ... Are we going to start 'shopping Cullen's head onto Jessica Rabbit's body? 

^A little nudge nudge from the protag is always fine, but I hope he ultimately figures out where he stands on his own. Home boy's issues can only be resolved by himself

Modifié par Batteries, 16 mai 2013 - 02:45 .

[LolaLei]

Someone whack Cullen's head on that!

[LolaLei]

Batteries wrote...

 ... Are we going to start 'shopping Cullen's head onto Jessica Rabbit's body? 

It wouldn't be the first time! 

[R2s Muse]

Twice a Lady wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Batteries wrote...

^^I thought it was interesting how he showed absolutely no shame or disdain in reminiscing about his Mage!Warden crush right in front of a group of people.

Disappoint it's only heard if you import an Amell.

Especially considering in Act 1 he was supposed to be all shameful and upset/angry about it (according to his codex). Perhaps that was just another inconsistency with the writing, but it easily works as part of his personal growth throughout the game, accidental or not.

Yeah... I dunno. I've been thinking a lot about that codex... and it strikes me now as an inconsistency. It could be that by Act 2 he's more at peace with it, but I dunno.

Could that be why they took it out? Inconsistency with the codex, I mean. My playthroughs with Amell imports no longer have mention of her in Cullen's codex like they used to.

Gosh, I have no idea! I've heard that the codex additions is just really  buggy. Could it be not be a bug, but a feature?  LOL I dunno. Doesn't seem like a big enough deal for them to bother, but who knows!  I suppose when dialogue and codex collide, codex always loses since it's hearsay. Same can be said for Cullen's codex, since it's just someone's opinion of what Cullen seems to feel. :shrug: Still... the codex uses the "L" word about Amell.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 16 mai 2013 - 02:45 .

[Twice a Lady]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Agree. He also expressed regret that the Starkhaven mages die, if you go that path.

I've never killed them, so I totally didn't know that! What does he say?

It's just another one of those ambient one-liners.

“Ser Thrask said you tried to assist him with the Starkhaven apostates. I’m sorry they didn’t make it.”

He also shows regret if you turn over all the mages and Samson during the kidnapped sibling or lover quest. You can ask him what happened to them later on at the Gallows and he says something that implies that Meredith had them hung outside the Gallows as an example. I can't remember the exact wording but his tone of voice was very sad about it.

[brushyourteeth]

I can definitely see the protagonist picking a side for Cullen. Whether that's the best thing for the game or not....

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

Twice a Lady wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Batteries wrote...

^^I thought it was interesting how he showed absolutely no shame or disdain in reminiscing about his Mage!Warden crush right in front of a group of people.

Disappoint it's only heard if you import an Amell.

Especially considering in Act 1 he was supposed to be all shameful and upset/angry about it (according to his codex). Perhaps that was just another inconsistency with the writing, but it easily works as part of his personal growth throughout the game, accidental or not.

Yeah... I dunno. I've been thinking a lot about that codex... and it strikes me now as an inconsistency. It could be that by Act 2 he's more at peace with it, but I dunno.

Could that be why they took it out? Inconsistency with the codex, I mean. My playthroughs with Amell imports no longer have mention of her in Cullen's codex like they used to.

Gosh, I have no idea! I've heard that the codex additions is just really  buggy. Could it be not be a bug, but a feature?  LOL I dunno. Doesn't seem like a big enough deal for them to bother, but who knows!  I suppose when dialogue and codex collide, codex always loses since it's hearsay. Same can be said for Cullen's codex, since it's just someone's opinion of what Cullen seems to feel. :shrug: Still... the codex uses the "L" word about Amell.

Maybe it caused him physical pain because at that point he still loved her but felt bad about it? I mean, it hadn't been very long since his ordeal when we first meet him.

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Agree. He also expressed regret that the Starkhaven mages die, if you go that path.

I've never killed them, so I totally didn't know that! What does he say?

It's just another one of those ambient one-liners.

“Ser Thrask said you tried to assist him with the Starkhaven apostates. I’m sorry they didn’t make it.”

... Aw, bless him! See, he's not bad... he was just scripted that way! :lol:

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Batteries wrote...

 ... Are we going to start 'shopping Cullen's head onto Jessica Rabbit's body? 

It wouldn't be the first time! 

LOL Been there. Done that.

[LolaLei]

Twice a Lady wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Agree. He also expressed regret that the Starkhaven mages die, if you go that path.

I've never killed them, so I totally didn't know that! What does he say?

It's just another one of those ambient one-liners.

“Ser Thrask said you tried to assist him with the Starkhaven apostates. I’m sorry they didn’t make it.”

He also shows regret if you turn over all the mages and Samson during the kidnapped sibling or lover quest. You can ask him what happened to them later on at the Gallows and he says something that implies that Meredith had them hung outside the Gallows as an example. I can't remember the exact wording but his tone of voice was very sad about it.

It was something like:

"Did you not see them as you came in?" and his tone of voice sounds really spooked and disturbed. The mages get strung up even if you don't want them too, except for Alain if you save him. Samson gets strung up too if you don't help him.

Modifié par LolaLei, 16 mai 2013 - 02:49 .

[LolaLei]

BWAHAHAHAHA!