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[Twice a Lady]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

There we go... I knew I had these somewhere.

Do you suppose he knew that Meredith was gonna kill them all? Or do you think maybe he thought she would make the blood mages Tranquil and maybe have Samson arrested after he was interrogated?

Well, in the dialogue I have saved, when you make the choice to have them killed Hawke says:
"They used illegal magic in a plot against the Order. I say execute them."

Cullen replies:


So... yeah, I'm thinking he did know what Mer would do.

Also:

Lol, yeah that does make it very definite that he knew. Perhap he thought he could have some sway over Meredith. She did follow his advice on what to do with Emile when he is turned in.

[LolaLei]

Batteries wrote...

I just did that right now.

Definitely sounded like he approved of the execution. Very creepy.

Also heard "I heard you defeated the demon that possessed the Dalish Queen. Maybe they will be less free with magic now." <- T'was a new one for me as well.

Heard squat about Samson though.

"The Dalish Queen"?! My god, Cullen. We seriously need to get him out in the wide world, he's got A LOT to learn. He's like some grumpy old racist. 

[Twice a Lady]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Twice a Lady wrote...

I'm not gonna lie. I turn them all over all the time, even Alain whether I'm pro-mage or pro-templar. I think I 've played that quest through all of once as a sane, reasonable person that let's people live. It's the one quest that just rubs me the wrong way. I've never understood how they can kidnap your sibling or friend or lover and then expect you not to be angry and not to show up! Doesn't Thrask even say something like, "I had hoped you wouldn't come'? Why wouldn't you show up? They kidnapped someone close to you. I guess by that point of the game I am just sick of all the backstabbing you seem to get from the people you try to help, and from the pro-templar POV, I just don't see how kidnapping someone is going to endear you to their cause. I always think of it as my "Hawke SMASH" quest and go all green on it.

This made me LOL.

You know, I've never had a playthrough where one of my siblings didn't live to the end. I really need to let them both bite it sometime so I can see my LI get kidnapped. I wonder who they take if you don't have anyone, or if you're romancing Seb?

They take Varric...unless he's in your party, then they just go down your friendship line and try to pick your bestie.

[LolaLei]

Batteries wrote...

I just did that right now.

Definitely sounded like he approved of the execution. Very creepy.

Also heard "I heard you defeated the demon that possessed the Dalish Queen. Maybe they will be less free with magic now." <- T'was a new one for me as well.

Heard squat about Samson though.

^ He sounded more along the lines of "Yeah bro!" to me.

LMAO, wow he's full on **** if you're pro-templar! Funny how he'll still try to save those mages either way though. Weirdo. 

[brushyourteeth]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Does he mention Samson's death too then? Man, I missed out! What does he say?

I wasn't actually aware that Samson is confirmed as dead. I thought Cullen only responds about the mages, who are strung up outside. Does he say as much?

I thought that was part of what you guys were getting at -- I must have misunderstood.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2: What's his tone like when he says that he can see why Meredith thinks so highly of Hawke? Is it like "yeah bro, you know where it's at!" or more like "sh!t son, you cray-cray!"

I thought a lot about that line, actually. He says in his usual brisk manner. But... one interpretation I had was that ... here's the powerful hero of the city who is pissed off, just killed a sh!t ton of people, and is now telling you to tell your boss to kill the rest.  A diplomatic dude like Cullen isn't going to disagree with you... instead he could be thinking, "You crazy ass ****... just like my boss." Then outloud he says, "I can see why (crazy ass) Meredith thinks so highly of you (another crazy)."

Just food for thought...

Modifié par R2s Muse, 16 mai 2013 - 03:20 .

[SamaraDraven]

Wow! I've missed some gooood discussion! What I've gathered so far, and have to say something about is that I don't see Cullen as "wishy-washy". I think the reason that adjective rankles me so is because "wishy-washy" indicates someone who is easily swayed by others. Cullen has proven that he will NOT be swayed once he has an idea of what he's comfortable with as the definition of right and wrong. At worst, he is someone who is constantly swayed by himself and his changing views based on his experiences rather than having a metric he holds himself to regardless of consequence. He's always trying to do the "right thing" but has trouble figuring out what that is because life has thrown him some doozies to put him in doubt of what he believes. He has always struck me as someone who is terribly conflicted. In the beginning of Origins, he displays this.

After the Broken Circle quest, he goes to an extreme end, an attitude fueled by his own trauma - not someone else. Wouldn't any of us do the same? But as he healed, he came back toward his previous middle-ground stance on mages. Not as far as he once had been but much closer than "mages aren't people like you and me" opinion he displays at the beginning of DA2. Which was just months - only months - after what happened to him in DAO. Considering that Hawke flees Lothering (which is razed by Darkspawn in the first act of Origins) and that Cullen shows up after her year in Kirkwall, we can safely say that Broken Circle was less than a year before Cullen says that. Furthermore, Broken Circle is structured into DAO in such a way that it's halfway through the game - at best. So Broken Circle was more like... 6 months before we see Cullen. Optimistically speaking. People forget this and hold his words against him when he has some very fresh, very real trauma to sort out. He manages to do this and steer his own path to a mindset he values, even though Meredith would have rather had an over-zealous cronie at her disposal. Cullen only seems wishy washy. What he is, is a tortured man who is still able to stand up for what he believes is right, even though he's fearful and not entirely certain he won't regret it later, like before.

That's my take on it anyway.

Also? HIIII EVERYOOOONNNNE!!!!!!! =D

Modifié par SamaraDraven, 16 mai 2013 - 03:25 .

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Does he mention Samson's death too then? Man, I missed out! What does he say?

I wasn't actually aware that Samson is confirmed as dead. I thought Cullen only responds about the mages, who are strung up outside. Does he say as much?

I thought that was part of what you guys were getting at -- I must have misunderstood.

Someone said earlier that Samson dies... that's why I was asking. All I recall is that Hawke asks about the mages, and Cullen says the line about didn't you see them outside?  And IIRC he sounded pretty sad about that. I just don't know about Samson, too.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 16 mai 2013 - 03:22 .

[LolaLei]

Y'know what's funny? In that Best Served Cold quest, Cullen says the following in regards to Alain standing up to the other blood mages, and I quote:

"Hmph. You mean he was one of them, save for a convenient last-minute change of heart."

[LolaLei]

My god, I ain't gonna lie he certainly doesn't make standing up for him easy LOL! He's a bit of a cold bastard, isn't he!

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Y'know what's funny? In that Best Served Cold quest, Cullen says the following in regards to Alain standing up to the other blood mages, and I quote:

"Hmph. You mean he was one of them, save for a convenient last-minute change of heart."

You mean, funny because that's what he does also?

[Twice a Lady]

brushyourteeth wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Does he mention Samson's death too then? Man, I missed out! What does he say?

I wasn't actually aware that Samson is confirmed as dead. I thought Cullen only responds about the mages, who are strung up outside. Does he say as much?

I thought that was part of what you guys were getting at -- I must have misunderstood.

I had always just assumed he'd been hung with the mages. I mean, Meredith wanted control of the city by that time and was 'acting' the viscount anyway, so it didn't occur to me that he could still be alive. He was party to overthrowing her, and I can't see Meredith allowing him to live.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Does he mention Samson's death too then? Man, I missed out! What does he say?

I wasn't actually aware that Samson is confirmed as dead. I thought Cullen only responds about the mages, who are strung up outside. Does he say as much?

I thought that was part of what you guys were getting at -- I must have misunderstood.

Someone said earlier that Samson dies... that's why I was asking. All I recall is that Hawke asks about the mages, and Cullen says the line about didn't you see them outside?  And IIRC he sounded pretty sad about that. I just don't know about Samson, too.

I could've sworn that he gets strung up like the others do, or maybe I just presumed he did?

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Does he mention Samson's death too then? Man, I missed out! What does he say?

I wasn't actually aware that Samson is confirmed as dead. I thought Cullen only responds about the mages, who are strung up outside. Does he say as much?

I thought that was part of what you guys were getting at -- I must have misunderstood.

Someone said earlier that Samson dies... that's why I was asking. All I recall is that Hawke asks about the mages, and Cullen says the line about didn't you see them outside?  And IIRC he sounded pretty sad about that. I just don't know about Samson, too.

I could've sworn that he gets strung up like the others do, or maybe I just presumed he did?

The wiki says Samson dies, too. I just don't recall the dialogue myself.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Y'know what's funny? In that Best Served Cold quest, Cullen says the following in regards to Alain standing up to the other blood mages, and I quote:

"Hmph. You mean he was one of them, save for a convenient last-minute change of heart."

You mean, funny because that's what he does also?

Exactly! Of course, that's not why he switched sides, but neither is it why Alain switched sides either. It just struck me as amusing. He really has no faith left in people... sad really.

[R2s Muse]

I have the dialogue written down... but only the positive/diplomatic choices. Then, I just have the few screenshots from the negative choices.

[Jean]

 This is hilarious

Hawke: Eh, kill all the mages. 

Alain: I SUPPORTED YOUUUU

Cullen: I can see why the Knight-Commander thinks highly of you! TAKETHEMAWAY!

-One loading screen later...-

Hawke: 'Sup bro. So, what happened to those mages?

Cullen: Didn't you see them when you came in? The knight-commander will ensure no one follows their example.

Hawke: Cool, cool. So, uh, Rumor is the knight-commander is cray cray. What'cha think?

Cullen: THE PEOPLE ASK TOO MUCH OF HER! But I do not have to ask where these "cray cray" rumors come from...


Am I the only one who is feeling just.. Just..

Modifié par Batteries, 16 mai 2013 - 03:36 .

[R2s Muse]

Such as:

[Twice a Lady]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2: What's his tone like when he says that he can see why Meredith thinks so highly of Hawke? Is it like "yeah bro, you know where it's at!" or more like "sh!t son, you cray-cray!"

I thought a lot about that line, actually. He says in his usual brisk manner. But... one interpretation I had was that ... here's the powerful hero of the city who is pissed off, just killed a sh!t ton of people, and is now telling you to tell your boss to kill the rest.  A diplomatic dude like Cullen isn't going to disagree with you... instead he could be thinking, "You crazy ass ****... just like my boss." Then outloud he says, "I can see why (crazy ass) Meredith thinks so highly of you (another crazy)."

Just food for thought...

I know when I play through this quest my Hawke is a crazy ass super B, so this reasoning from Cullen would make absolute sense to me.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Y'know what's funny? In that Best Served Cold quest, Cullen says the following in regards to Alain standing up to the other blood mages, and I quote:

"Hmph. You mean he was one of them, save for a convenient last-minute change of heart."

You mean, funny because that's what he does also?

Exactly! Of course, that's not why he switched sides, but neither is it why Alain switched sides either. It just struck me as amusing. He really has no faith left in people... sad really.

But he's also a cop in this situation. He shouldn't be believing every last minute sob story to pardon wrongdoing. It always seemed to me like a really appropriate thing for him to say. In Cullen's own case, sure, he did that too... but I wonder, would he try to weasel out of it?  Or if someone accused him of having "a convenient last-minute change of heart.", would he just shrug and accept his punishment?

Anyhoo... I've thought WAY too much about this scene as I  had rewrite it from Cullen's POV not too long ago... so perhaps we shouldn't get me started.

[R2s Muse]

SamaraDraven wrote...

Wow! I've missed some gooood discussion! What I've gathered so far, and have to say something about is that I don't see Cullen as "wishy-washy". I think the reason that adjective rankles me so is because "wishy-washy" indicates someone who is easily swayed by others. Cullen has proven that he will NOT be swayed once he has an idea of what he's comfortable with as the definition of right and wrong. At worst, he is someone who is constantly swayed by himself and his changing views based on his experiences rather than having a metric he holds himself to regardless of consequence. He's always trying to do the "right thing" but has trouble figuring out what that is because life has thrown him some doozies to put him in doubt of what he believes. He has always struck me as someone who is terribly conflicted. In the beginning of Origins, he displays this.

After the Broken Circle quest, he goes to an extreme end, an attitude fueled by his own trauma - not someone else. Wouldn't any of us do the same? But as he healed, he came back toward his previous middle-ground stance on mages. Not as far as he once had been but much closer than "mages aren't people like you and me" opinion he displays at the beginning of DA2. Which was just months - only months - after what happened to him in DAO. Considering that Hawke flees Lothering (which is razed by Darkspawn in the first act of Origins) and that Cullen shows up after her year in Kirkwall, we can safely say that Broken Circle was less than a year before Cullen says that. Furthermore, Broken Circle is structured into DAO in such a way that it's halfway through the game - at best. So Broken Circle was more like... 6 months before we see Cullen. Optimistically speaking. People forget this and hold his words against him when he has some very fresh, very real trauma to sort out. He manages to do this and steer his own path to a mindset he values, even though Meredith would have rather had an over-zealous cronie at her disposal. Cullen only seems wishy washy. What he is, is a tortured man who is still able to stand up for what he believes is right, even though he's fearful and not entirely certain he won't regret it later, like before.

That's my take on it anyway.

Also? HIIII EVERYOOOONNNNE!!!!!!! =D

Samara!  Sorry... too busy discussing! Hope all is well.

[LolaLei]

Ok I found a clip of him saying he can see why Meredith thinks so highly of Hawke. It sounded more neutral with a slight hint of sarcasm. I would say he was all like "Right on, bro!" About it.

6:08 onwards.

[R2s Muse]

Twice a Lady wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2: What's his tone like when he says that he can see why Meredith thinks so highly of Hawke? Is it like "yeah bro, you know where it's at!" or more like "sh!t son, you cray-cray!"

I thought a lot about that line, actually. He says in his usual brisk manner. But... one interpretation I had was that ... here's the powerful hero of the city who is pissed off, just killed a sh!t ton of people, and is now telling you to tell your boss to kill the rest.  A diplomatic dude like Cullen isn't going to disagree with you... instead he could be thinking, "You crazy ass ****... just like my boss." Then outloud he says, "I can see why (crazy ass) Meredith thinks so highly of you (another crazy)."

Just food for thought...

I know when I play through this quest my Hawke is a crazy ass super B, so this reasoning from Cullen would make absolute sense to me.

LOL And, I figure the xena-esque "kill them all" option would probably be limited to the more hardcore, aggro Hawkes in the first place... I dunno.  I'm just imagining Cullen, in that scenario, thinking... "You and Meredith are perfect for each other! Freaks!"

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Y'know what's funny? In that Best Served Cold quest, Cullen says the following in regards to Alain standing up to the other blood mages, and I quote:

"Hmph. You mean he was one of them, save for a convenient last-minute change of heart."

You mean, funny because that's what he does also?

Exactly! Of course, that's not why he switched sides, but neither is it why Alain switched sides either. It just struck me as amusing. He really has no faith left in people... sad really.

But he's also a cop in this situation. He shouldn't be believing every last minute sob story to pardon wrongdoing. It always seemed to me like a really appropriate thing for him to say. In Cullen's own case, sure, he did that too... but I wonder, would he try to weasel out of it?  Or if someone accused him of having "a convenient last-minute change of heart.", would he just shrug and accept his punishment?

Anyhoo... I've thought WAY too much about this scene as I  had rewrite it from Cullen's POV not too long ago... so perhaps we shouldn't get me started.

He's definitely toughened up a lot since DA:O, probably just conditioned himself to do his job and try not to think about it... it's all gonna catch up with him in DA3 if he's a companion, no doubt. We'd probably need to soften him up a bit too, which should be interesting.

Modifié par LolaLei, 16 mai 2013 - 03:45 .

[brushyourteeth]

SD, we mean wishy-washy as in "torn between two sides."