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[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

 I guess he may have still killed those apprentices before being sent to Greenfell, but until he tells us that directly we'll never know for sure.

FWIW, I ran across the text from the crazy epilogue, and this still isn't really compatible with going to Greenfell, IMO. Doesn't really seem like an escaped madman would later be set free, Greenfell rehabilitation or no. Also, for the record, it does name Cullen by name.


The young templar Cullen never quite recovered from his ordeal. After months of attempting to convince his superiors that the tower was still a danger, he finally snapped and killed three apprentices before being stopped by his fellow templars. Eventually, Cullen escaped from prison, a madman and a threat to any mage he encountered.

They could probably change it that perhaps he flipped at them, had a bit of a mental breakdown, maybe injured one of them in his freak out and then was sent away. That would work.

[LolaLei]

"The young templar Cullen never quite recovered from his ordeal. After months of attempting to convince his superiors that the tower was still a danger, he finally snapped and killed three apprentices before being stopped by his fellow templars. Eventually, Cullen escaped from prison, a madman and a threat to any mage he encountered."

"Once the tower was rebuilt, Knight-Commander Greagoir stepped down from his post and retired to a life of private contemplation as a brother in the Chantry. His health failed over time, and after refusing treatment, he perished in his sleep. Knight-Commander Cullen was said to be more strict and less trusting of the mages even than Greagoir was. He ruled the Circle with fear."

Who'd have ever thought he'd become so reasonable!

[Dunquixote]

LolaLei wrote...

Dunquixote wrote...

I haven't looked at the hate threads yet, so, I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions. Is it the fans or Cullen as a character people are ranting about? Are there any "intelligent" discussions or is it simply insult after insult?

If people didn't feel hate or love for a character, then that character could be classified sometimes as boring or just a very minor character. It makes a game more enjoyable--for me that is, if there were feelings of hate or love--(or simply liking) for a character. I don't know if I get like this for every video game I play, but, being a person who appreciates a good and involved story, seeing different characters, both ones I hate and find a strong liking for, makes me have a greater appreciation for the hard work put into the game by the developers.

When it comes to hating a specific Dragon Age character, I would say in Dragon Age II, I really despise Isabella. She's a backstabbing **** and ****, who disgusts me utterly. However, I won't deny that she is a very...colorful character and brings color to the character. Thus, I respect the writer's decision and have no problem with the way they developed her.

It varies. Sometimes it's an open and obvious hate thread aimed at the fans, sometimes it's a thread made by someone who is genuinely curious about why people like him. However, it ALWAYS turns into a flame thread bashing and attacking the fans eventually, sometimes it happens quicker than others though.

There are usually a few replies from people giving good reasons and arguments about why they dislike him, I find those ones the most interesting because I like to hear other peoples opinions and see it from someone elses perspective. Mostly it's just people saying they hate him or dislike him because the fans won't shut up about him, or because they think he's a creepy rapist, or killed a bunch of apprentices (even though those DA:O epilogues were retconned). I guess he may have still killed those apprentices before being sent to Greenfell, but until he tells us that directly we'll never know for sure.

That makes me a little sad.  It's always an encouraging thing to see people exchanging different opinions even on minor [of course, he's not a minor character to us, right, gals? ] characters, or even having a good "debate."  But flaming/trolling/bashing, whatever you call it, is not only disrespectful to the fans they are directing it at, but perhaps, in my opinion, a little disrespectful to whomever credit goes to for creating Cullen (I presume it would be David Gaider?).  Then again, that might be not true.  I'm only contemplating this as I'm typing.  I think, from the posts I've seen, David Gaider is a great guy with a great sense of humor, and he'd probably not take it offensively; but, since I don't know the man, personally, there is a chance he might take it offensively.

[LolaLei]

Dunquixote wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Dunquixote wrote...

I haven't looked at the hate threads yet, so, I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions. Is it the fans or Cullen as a character people are ranting about? Are there any "intelligent" discussions or is it simply insult after insult?

If people didn't feel hate or love for a character, then that character could be classified sometimes as boring or just a very minor character. It makes a game more enjoyable--for me that is, if there were feelings of hate or love--(or simply liking) for a character. I don't know if I get like this for every video game I play, but, being a person who appreciates a good and involved story, seeing different characters, both ones I hate and find a strong liking for, makes me have a greater appreciation for the hard work put into the game by the developers.

When it comes to hating a specific Dragon Age character, I would say in Dragon Age II, I really despise Isabella. She's a backstabbing **** and ****, who disgusts me utterly. However, I won't deny that she is a very...colorful character and brings color to the character. Thus, I respect the writer's decision and have no problem with the way they developed her.

It varies. Sometimes it's an open and obvious hate thread aimed at the fans, sometimes it's a thread made by someone who is genuinely curious about why people like him. However, it ALWAYS turns into a flame thread bashing and attacking the fans eventually, sometimes it happens quicker than others though.

There are usually a few replies from people giving good reasons and arguments about why they dislike him, I find those ones the most interesting because I like to hear other peoples opinions and see it from someone elses perspective. Mostly it's just people saying they hate him or dislike him because the fans won't shut up about him, or because they think he's a creepy rapist, or killed a bunch of apprentices (even though those DA:O epilogues were retconned). I guess he may have still killed those apprentices before being sent to Greenfell, but until he tells us that directly we'll never know for sure.

That makes me a little sad.  It's always an encouraging thing to see people exchanging different opinions even on minor [of course, he's not a minor character to us, right, gals? ] characters, or even having a good "debate."  But flaming/trolling/bashing, whatever you call it, is not only disrespectful to the fans they are directing it at, but perhaps, in my opinion, a little disrespectful to whomever credit goes to for creating Cullen (I presume it would be David Gaider?).  Then again, that might be not true.  I'm only contemplating this as I'm typing.  I think, from the posts I've seen, David Gaider is a great guy with a great sense of humor, and he'd probably not take it offensively; but, since I don't know the man, personally, there is a chance he might take it offensively.

He once came into this thread and told us that he'd be more inclined to include a character (like Cullen) who provokes both negative and positive attention, than a character that no one cares about either way.

[HurricaneGinger]

LolaLei wrote...

Dunquixote wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Dunquixote wrote...

I haven't looked at the hate threads yet, so, I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions. Is it the fans or Cullen as a character people are ranting about? Are there any "intelligent" discussions or is it simply insult after insult?

If people didn't feel hate or love for a character, then that character could be classified sometimes as boring or just a very minor character. It makes a game more enjoyable--for me that is, if there were feelings of hate or love--(or simply liking) for a character. I don't know if I get like this for every video game I play, but, being a person who appreciates a good and involved story, seeing different characters, both ones I hate and find a strong liking for, makes me have a greater appreciation for the hard work put into the game by the developers.

When it comes to hating a specific Dragon Age character, I would say in Dragon Age II, I really despise Isabella. She's a backstabbing **** and ****, who disgusts me utterly. However, I won't deny that she is a very...colorful character and brings color to the character. Thus, I respect the writer's decision and have no problem with the way they developed her.

It varies. Sometimes it's an open and obvious hate thread aimed at the fans, sometimes it's a thread made by someone who is genuinely curious about why people like him. However, it ALWAYS turns into a flame thread bashing and attacking the fans eventually, sometimes it happens quicker than others though.

There are usually a few replies from people giving good reasons and arguments about why they dislike him, I find those ones the most interesting because I like to hear other peoples opinions and see it from someone elses perspective. Mostly it's just people saying they hate him or dislike him because the fans won't shut up about him, or because they think he's a creepy rapist, or killed a bunch of apprentices (even though those DA:O epilogues were retconned). I guess he may have still killed those apprentices before being sent to Greenfell, but until he tells us that directly we'll never know for sure.

That makes me a little sad.  It's always an encouraging thing to see people exchanging different opinions even on minor [of course, he's not a minor character to us, right, gals? ] characters, or even having a good "debate."  But flaming/trolling/bashing, whatever you call it, is not only disrespectful to the fans they are directing it at, but perhaps, in my opinion, a little disrespectful to whomever credit goes to for creating Cullen (I presume it would be David Gaider?).  Then again, that might be not true.  I'm only contemplating this as I'm typing.  I think, from the posts I've seen, David Gaider is a great guy with a great sense of humor, and he'd probably not take it offensively; but, since I don't know the man, personally, there is a chance he might take it offensively.

He once came into this thread and told us that he'd be more inclined to include a character (like Cullen) who provokes both negative and positive attention, than a character that no one cares about either way.

That's usually when you know you've made a great character! 

[LolaLei]

PhantomGinger wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Dunquixote wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Dunquixote wrote...

I haven't looked at the hate threads yet, so, I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions. Is it the fans or Cullen as a character people are ranting about? Are there any "intelligent" discussions or is it simply insult after insult?

If people didn't feel hate or love for a character, then that character could be classified sometimes as boring or just a very minor character. It makes a game more enjoyable--for me that is, if there were feelings of hate or love--(or simply liking) for a character. I don't know if I get like this for every video game I play, but, being a person who appreciates a good and involved story, seeing different characters, both ones I hate and find a strong liking for, makes me have a greater appreciation for the hard work put into the game by the developers.

When it comes to hating a specific Dragon Age character, I would say in Dragon Age II, I really despise Isabella. She's a backstabbing **** and ****, who disgusts me utterly. However, I won't deny that she is a very...colorful character and brings color to the character. Thus, I respect the writer's decision and have no problem with the way they developed her.

It varies. Sometimes it's an open and obvious hate thread aimed at the fans, sometimes it's a thread made by someone who is genuinely curious about why people like him. However, it ALWAYS turns into a flame thread bashing and attacking the fans eventually, sometimes it happens quicker than others though.

There are usually a few replies from people giving good reasons and arguments about why they dislike him, I find those ones the most interesting because I like to hear other peoples opinions and see it from someone elses perspective. Mostly it's just people saying they hate him or dislike him because the fans won't shut up about him, or because they think he's a creepy rapist, or killed a bunch of apprentices (even though those DA:O epilogues were retconned). I guess he may have still killed those apprentices before being sent to Greenfell, but until he tells us that directly we'll never know for sure.

That makes me a little sad.  It's always an encouraging thing to see people exchanging different opinions even on minor [of course, he's not a minor character to us, right, gals? ] characters, or even having a good "debate."  But flaming/trolling/bashing, whatever you call it, is not only disrespectful to the fans they are directing it at, but perhaps, in my opinion, a little disrespectful to whomever credit goes to for creating Cullen (I presume it would be David Gaider?).  Then again, that might be not true.  I'm only contemplating this as I'm typing.  I think, from the posts I've seen, David Gaider is a great guy with a great sense of humor, and he'd probably not take it offensively; but, since I don't know the man, personally, there is a chance he might take it offensively.

He once came into this thread and told us that he'd be more inclined to include a character (like Cullen) who provokes both negative and positive attention, than a character that no one cares about either way.

That's usually when you know you've made a great character! 

Exactly! If a character provokes great controversy then you've done your job right!

[Dunquixote]

Hehe :-). I wonder if he had expected to get this much controversy though...

[LolaLei]

Dunquixote wrote...

Hehe :-). I wonder if he had expected to get this much controversy though...

In that interview he done with a fan, he seems pretty surprised. He said in the DA3 forum that his popularity baffles him based on the little screen time he's had so far.

[rapscallioness]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

 I guess he may have still killed those apprentices before being sent to Greenfell, but until he tells us that directly we'll never know for sure.

FWIW, I ran across the text from the crazy epilogue in my files, and this still isn't really compatible with going to Greenfell, IMO. Doesn't really seem like an escaped madman would later be set free, Greenfell rehabilitation or no. Also, for the record, it does name Cullen by name.

The young templar Cullen never quite recovered from his ordeal. After months of attempting to convince his superiors that the tower was still a danger, he finally snapped and killed three apprentices before being stopped by his fellow templars. Eventually, Cullen escaped from prison, a madman and a threat to any mage he encountered.

My, God. lmao! Well...I guess he got better?

[LolaLei]

rapscallioness wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

 I guess he may have still killed those apprentices before being sent to Greenfell, but until he tells us that directly we'll never know for sure.

FWIW, I ran across the text from the crazy epilogue in my files, and this still isn't really compatible with going to Greenfell, IMO. Doesn't really seem like an escaped madman would later be set free, Greenfell rehabilitation or no. Also, for the record, it does name Cullen by name.

The young templar Cullen never quite recovered from his ordeal. After months of attempting to convince his superiors that the tower was still a danger, he finally snapped and killed three apprentices before being stopped by his fellow templars. Eventually, Cullen escaped from prison, a madman and a threat to any mage he encountered.

My, God. lmao! Well...I guess he got better?

So much of a threat that he let blood mages return to the Gallows, felt sorry for Feynriel in his Fade induced coma, saved three mages from Meredith's wrath, help fight and kill his superior with a mage Hawke/Hawke's mage companions, and allowed a mage Hawke to escape/Hawke's mage friends to escape/will bow to a mage Hawke if you sided with the Templars.

What a "big bad mage killer" he is! 

[rapscallioness]

Yes, a character that provokes a strong feeling one way or the other is a win.

You know, like w/Kai Leng in ME3, I was really looking fwd to hating that guy, but it never happened. Old Man just didn't haven't enuf screen time for me to feel one way or the other abt him. (I strongly suspect alot of his dialogue may have been cut...)

Although, sometimes devs think we don't like a char. so..wow it must be a great char. to inspire that feeling. When that's not the case. Sometimes it's just a weak presentation of the char. Not cuz I'm loving to hate them. Unfortunately.

[LolaLei]

I hope against hope that he'll have something to say about those rumours in DA3, especially if he's romancing a mage protagonist:

Cullen: "Y'know, there's rumours going around that I'm a mage killer"

Protagonist: "Oh, really? And is that true Mister "big scary mage murderer"?"

Cullen: "Hm, keep being cheeky and you'll find out" *Snogs protagonist's face off*

Modifié par LolaLei, 20 mai 2013 - 01:11 .

[rapscallioness]

LolaLei wrote...

.So much of a threat that he let blood mages return to the Gallows, felt sorry for Feynriel in his Fade induced coma, saved three mages from Meredith's wrath, help fight and kill his superior with a mage Hawke/Hawke's mage companions, and allowed a mage Hawke to escape/Hawke's mage friends to escape/will bow to a mage Hawke if you sided with the Templars.

What a "big bad mage killer" he is! 

yeah, they weren't expecting to be using him again even in DA2 is what that tells me.

Or, wait...what does it say in a mage flirts w/him epilogue slide? Does he still go crazy, or did our almost love save him?

[rapscallioness]

LolaLei wrote...

I hope against hope that he'll have something to say about those rumours in DA3, especially if he's romancing a mage protagonist:

Cullen: "Y'know, there's rumours going around that I'm a big, bad mage killer"

Protagonist: "Oh, really? And is that true Mister "scary mage murderer"?"

Cullen: "Hm, keep being cheeky and you'll find out" *Snogs protagonist's face off*

[LolaLei]

rapscallioness wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

.So much of a threat that he let blood mages return to the Gallows, felt sorry for Feynriel in his Fade induced coma, saved three mages from Meredith's wrath, help fight and kill his superior with a mage Hawke/Hawke's mage companions, and allowed a mage Hawke to escape/Hawke's mage friends to escape/will bow to a mage Hawke if you sided with the Templars.

What a "big bad mage killer" he is! 

yeah, they weren't expecting to be using him again even in DA2 is what that tells me.

Or, wait...what does it say in a mage flirts w/him epilogue slide? Does he still go crazy, or did our almost love save him?

He still goes mad or becomes Knight Commander of the Ferelden circle.

[LolaLei]

Looking at Cullen's DA:O epilogue sliders, I can see why some people were really pissed off to find him in DA2 as Knight Captain behaving reasonable and non-mental. I guess it must be weird or hard for some people to wrap their heads around, especially if they hadn't heard that it was retconned, or hadn't come to the conclusion that it was retconned after the Witch Hunt dlc mentions him recovering in Greenfell (which they may not have heard at all, if their Warden isn't an Amell/Surana).

I still wonder to this day why they decided to make Cullen the Knight Captain in DA2. I know they like to bring old familar faces foward into the next installment to maintain some connection with the previous game, but Cullen was obscure and minor enough that it wouldn't have really mattered if they'd used someone else, or someone entirely new. His epilogue sliders in DA:O are very specific, and were clearly meant to be taken as gospel truth at time DA:O was made. I don't think Cullen even had all that much attention after DA:O to really make them stand up and take notice. Perhaps a couple of the devs/writers themselves had a bit of a thing for him, and that's what swung it for him?

[rapscallioness]

Wow, well, I hope they do put in a lil tidbit addressing those rumors. I mean, we know it's retcon to the rescue---which is fine by me in this case cuz he had such a small role in DAO.

But it would be funny if that got brought up.

[LolaLei]

rapscallioness wrote...

Wow, well, I hope they do put in a lil tidbit addressing those rumors. I mean, we know it's retcon to the rescue---which is fine by me in this case cuz he had such a small role in DAO.

But it would be funny if that got brought up.

Definitely, it would be an amusing way to poke fun at his fans and haters/the BSN in general. I know they love putting in Easter eggs and nods to the fandom into their games, so you never know!

[rapscallioness]

Idk what brought him back in DA2.

It was unusual that he survived what he did in DAO. Yet, he didn't really according to the pre retcons slides. Uh, idk.

Then the fact that he's not rabid mage hater tho he says sum really dodgy stuff sometimes. But it's the kinda thing alot of pro-templar players would agree with.

The whole, there's an argument to be made for applying the tranquility rite more widely. He's considering these ideas, tho not necessarily endorsing them. Just trying to see both sides.

He's still a Templar. He follows those beliefs..to an extent. If he had shown up in DA2 all, "Viva La Mage Revolution!!" that woulda been crazy ooc.

[LolaLei]

rapscallioness wrote...

Idk what brought him back in DA2.

It was unusual that he survived what he did in DAO. Yet, he didn't really according to the pre retcons slides. Uh, idk.

Then the fact that he's not rabid mage hater tho he says sum really dodgy stuff sometimes. But it's the kinda thing alot of pro-templar players would agree with.

The whole, there's an argument to be made for applying the tranquility rite more widely. He's considering these ideas, tho not necessarily endorsing them. Just trying to see both sides.

He's still a Templar. He follows those beliefs..to an extent. If he had shown up in DA2 all, "Viva La Mage Revolution!!" that woulda been crazy ooc.

Yeah, if his DA:O epilogues hadn't been retconned, then physically he may have survived, but the person he once was would have been long gone with no chance of ever returning. Fortunately that's not the case. I don't think he'll ever be "pro-mage" but he's definitely not how many thought he'd be.

That being said, those epilogues could still happen.

If he's a companion then they may decide to give him a number of different fates in DA3 based on whether or not the protagonist encourages him to be anti-mage/what happens to him. I'd prefer them to not keep chopping and changing though because they've had him grow and progress enough that by DA3 he should be quite willing and able to make up his own mind, without the protagonist messing with it lol.

Modifié par LolaLei, 20 mai 2013 - 01:33 .

[Twice a Lady]

Newschmoo wrote...

This is based on the cover of 'Let Me Come In' by Linda Jones, that I just found really bizarre. I am going to read the book just to find out the link to the little piglets!

Please excuse my editing - I am very poor!



Arghh it's terrible!

Okay, I have to ask: Were those pigs in the original cover? Because if they were that is possibly the greatest and weirdest romance cover ever! You improved upon it quite nicely and if this was a real cover, I'd buy it hand down.
EDIT: Oh wait, I see the piggies reference in your wording. How the H did I miss that!? Seriously though, read this book and give me a summary!

Modifié par Twice a Lady, 20 mai 2013 - 01:59 .

[Narcia_]

LolaLei wrote...

[/i]I still wonder to this day why they decided to make Cullen the Knight Captain in DA2. I know they like to bring old familar faces foward into the next installment to maintain some connection with the previous game, but Cullen was obscure and minor enough that it wouldn't have really mattered if they'd used someone else, or someone entirely new. His epilogue sliders in DA:O are very specific, and were clearly meant to be taken as gospel truth at time DA:O was made. I don't think Cullen even had all that much attention after DA:O to really make them stand up and take notice. Perhaps a couple of the devs/writers themselves had a bit of a thing for him, and that's what swung it for him?

I bet that it was one (or some) of the writers that thought it would make for a better connection to the first game to have a somewhat recognizeable character return. I also guess that it was because Greg Ellis wasn't available to record all of Anders dialogue. Pure speculation on my part, but I still feel that may be part of why they brought Cullen back for a small role in Kirkwall.

I'm glad they did, anyway :happy:

Also, some great stuff on 1800 <3 we really are going to be at 2000 before you know it. Are we coming up for a theme there, too? The Future of Cullen? Cullen DA:I posters? How he'll fit into the new Thedas?

Welcome to all the new faces. Glad to have you here!

@ Twice a Lady:  I love your art!!

[rapscallioness]

LolaLei wrote...

If he's a companion then they may decide to give him a number of different fates in DA3 based on whether or not the protagonist encourages him to be anti-mage/what happens to him. I'd prefer them to not keep chopping and changing though because they've had him grow and progress enough that by DA3 he should be quite willing and able to make up his own mind, without the protagonist messing with it lol.

Very much this. In fact, I prefer not to have the companions magically change their minds abt a deeply held belief Just Cuz the PC has magical persuasion powers. lol!

I'd prefer it to be a more organic evolution of character. Primarily because of interactions w/other companions..and the PC to a degree. I mean, it's real easy to judge a caricature, but when you fight to the death w/them. Eat, drink, work, play together and get to know them and where they're coming from, it changes things.

It should. There should be a softening, at least. I'd like to see a character---for example--that is anti-mage lets say. There's a mage companion in ur party, too. At first there is tension between them, but over time you see a camarderie building. To the point that say someone starts threatening the mage, the previously anti-mage comapnion will actually defend them. Cuz...they've been thru alot together. Had to trust each other w/their lives.

I'm not saying their fundamental beliefs should change, but I'd like to see a softening..

[rapscallioness]

And I'm out. Goodnight all.

[LolaLei]

rapscallioness wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

If he's a companion then they may decide to give him a number of different fates in DA3 based on whether or not the protagonist encourages him to be anti-mage/what happens to him. I'd prefer them to not keep chopping and changing though because they've had him grow and progress enough that by DA3 he should be quite willing and able to make up his own mind, without the protagonist messing with it lol.

Very much this. In fact, I prefer not to have the companions magically change their minds abt a deeply held belief Just Cuz the PC has magical persuasion powers. lol!

I'd prefer it to be a more organic evolution of character. Primarily because of interactions w/other companions..and the PC to a degree. I mean, it's real easy to judge a caricature, but when you fight to the death w/them. Eat, drink, work, play together and get to know them and where they're coming from, it changes things.

It should. There should be a softening, at least. I'd like to see a character---for example--that is anti-mage lets say. There's a mage companion in ur party, too. At first there is tension between them, but over time you see a camarderie building. To the point that say someone starts threatening the mage, the previously anti-mage comapnion will actually defend them. Cuz...they've been thru alot together. Had to trust each other w/their lives.

I'm not saying their fundamental beliefs should change, but I'd like to see a softening..

Kinda like Aveline and Isabela. At first it's clear that Aveline didn't like her and Isabela liked irritating her, but if you manage to get Isabela to return with the book over time the pair of them start to get along, and by the end of it Aveline even tells Hawke that Isabela grew on her and that they've amazing become quite firm friends.