89415 réponses à ce sujet

[rapscallioness]

It's a strange story, tho. This Maker did not interact w/its creations until Andraste was singing annnd then it was like, "be my woman". Forget all these ppl. You can move in and everything.

Andraste must have been a really good singer.

[LolaLei]

What if Andraste was just worshipping a demon in disguise, claiming to be the Maker?

[brushyourteeth]

rapscallioness wrote...

Yeah, I do hope the artists are thoroughly brought up to speed w/lore. It's something that if contradictory can cause a great deal of confusion. Fans take the art very srsly. And we take it for granted that the visual artists and literary artists are on the same page.

We pick up alot of info visually in game. I hope what they present is a conscious effort in line w/the lore thus far.

If it's just a mistake, they darn well shouldn't have included it in the lore book without photoshopping the symbol out first. That's what editors are for. M-Law promises in the forward that it's "ruthlessly fact checked" (for whatever that's worth -- I feel like I already caught a few inconsistencies, though my understanding of the lore isn't perfect).

Unless they just didn't think we'd be smart enough to catch on to it, which: 

[LolaLei]

rapscallioness wrote...

It's a strange story, tho. This Maker did not interact w/its creations until Andraste was singing annnd then it was like, "be my woman". Forget all these ppl. You can move in and everything.

Andraste must have been a really good singer.

You'd think he'd have realised she'd be a hot piece of ass and just kept her with him from the minute he created her, lol.

[rapscallioness]

Well, demons would do that kinda thing. It's a very demon-y thing to do. I wouldn't be surprised.

[LolaLei]

brushyourteeth wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Yeah, I do hope the artists are thoroughly brought up to speed w/lore. It's something that if contradictory can cause a great deal of confusion. Fans take the art very srsly. And we take it for granted that the visual artists and literary artists are on the same page.

We pick up alot of info visually in game. I hope what they present is a conscious effort in line w/the lore thus far.

If it's just a mistake, they darn well shouldn't have included it in the lore book without photoshopping the symbol out first. That's what editors are for. M-Law promises in the forward that it's "ruthlessly fact checked" (for whatever that's worth -- I feel like I already caught a few inconsistencies, though my understanding of the lore isn't perfect).

Unless they just didn't think we'd be smart enough to catch on to it, which: 

They've released a second version correcting the inconsistences apparently.

[brushyourteeth]

rapscallioness wrote...

It's a strange story, tho. This Maker did not interact w/its creations until Andraste was singing annnd then it was like, "be my woman". Forget all these ppl. You can move in and everything.

Andraste must have been a really good singer.

LOL! I've totally thought the same thing! Everything about that story is bizarre.

And that's what's weird about this world. Everything is so magical and mysterious and so few of the tales have details that match up with certifiable fact that they could take us anywhere with it. Koslun could be the Maker and Sandal could be Dumat's left toe brought to life with blood magic.

[brushyourteeth]

LolaLei wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Yeah, I do hope the artists are thoroughly brought up to speed w/lore. It's something that if contradictory can cause a great deal of confusion. Fans take the art very srsly. And we take it for granted that the visual artists and literary artists are on the same page.

We pick up alot of info visually in game. I hope what they present is a conscious effort in line w/the lore thus far.

If it's just a mistake, they darn well shouldn't have included it in the lore book without photoshopping the symbol out first. That's what editors are for. M-Law promises in the forward that it's "ruthlessly fact checked" (for whatever that's worth -- I feel like I already caught a few inconsistencies, though my understanding of the lore isn't perfect).

Unless they just didn't think we'd be smart enough to catch on to it, which: 

They've released a second version correcting the inconsistences apparently.

Have they really? Because if so I totally want my money back.

[LolaLei]

brushyourteeth wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Yeah, I do hope the artists are thoroughly brought up to speed w/lore. It's something that if contradictory can cause a great deal of confusion. Fans take the art very srsly. And we take it for granted that the visual artists and literary artists are on the same page.

We pick up alot of info visually in game. I hope what they present is a conscious effort in line w/the lore thus far.

If it's just a mistake, they darn well shouldn't have included it in the lore book without photoshopping the symbol out first. That's what editors are for. M-Law promises in the forward that it's "ruthlessly fact checked" (for whatever that's worth -- I feel like I already caught a few inconsistencies, though my understanding of the lore isn't perfect).

Unless they just didn't think we'd be smart enough to catch on to it, which: 

They've released a second version correcting the inconsistences apparently.

Have they really? Because if so I totally want my money back.

Yeah, Mike Laidlaw said on Twitter. He also said they'd post up the corrections for everyone too.

[rapscallioness]

Well, Brushyourteeth, it may not be a mistake. If the symbol is has it should be on the dwarf, perhaps it does indeed represent something far older that we don't know abt.

As far as the title of "the Maker", that did in fact begin w/Andraste. The title. Now, the Creator its based on may have been in circulation long before, but w/Andraste it got a reboot. New name and everything.

Soooo maybe technically the book is right?

[rapscallioness]

LolaLei wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

It's a strange story, tho. This Maker did not interact w/its creations until Andraste was singing annnd then it was like, "be my woman". Forget all these ppl. You can move in and everything.

Andraste must have been a really good singer.

You'd think he'd have realised she'd be a hot piece of ass and just kept her with him from the minute he created her, lol.

Lol, Lola! You're so bad.

Or....Andraste was lying? Maybe she made a pact w/sum spirit and it told her to go forth and it would give her all the victories. She may have known that it wasn't the Maker--Maker?

Or maybe she made the whole thing up as a good control and rallying cry for sweeping into a blight weakened Tevinter.

That's the thing. Either it really was the Maker. Or somebody, somewhere isn't telling the whole story.

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Okay, and I told you guys that R2 would think that I'm crazy, and she does.  But tWoT1 says that belief in the Maker didn't predate Andraste. So if that's the case, that would make the symbol either very important or, like we've said, a very serious mistake. But since we all have time for speculation....

It could just be that the symbol represented some sort of, I don't know, noble evil-fighting alliance, and it became attributed to the Chantry when it came along because it already stood for something with good or holy intentions. I'm sure that goodness and the desire to do right wasn't invented with Andraste's Cult of the Maker.

Just in case you're curious:
Endrin Stonehammer is made a Paragon: -1131 Ancient
Tevinter mages secretly open a gate into the Golden City and return as darkspawn: -395 Ancient
Andraste is born (approximately): -203 Ancient
Andraste begins preaching a new creator, whom she calls the Maker: -186 Ancient
Andraste is killed: -170 Ancient
The Inquisition is formed (approximately): -100 ancient

LOL ... I'll see your quotes, and raise you a DG quote...

http://social.biowar...508455/3#509837

The cult of the Old Gods (I don't call it "the Tevinter religion" mainly because that, to me, speaks of the Imperial Chantry -- which is based in today's Tevinter Imperium) didn't contradict the existence of the Maker. Quite the opposite. The people of ancient Tevinter were aware of the existence of the Golden City and ascribed to "the Maker" (though this Creator was not called this until the appearance of the Chantry) the creation of the world. The Old Gods were not creators, though they were supposedly also not created. The Old Gods were outside of the Creator's Plan and showed up to whisper to mankind and teach them magic. According to the Chantry, they turned mankind away from their regard for a remote Creator (who ruled remotely and never interacted with his own creations) and that this is what made the Creator abandon the Golden City... though there is argument that the cult believed the Creator had abandoned it long before and that they were adrift, rescued by the Old Gods. Modern sages say that this is attempt to explain the hardships that the early human civilizations faced, and not evidence of the Maker actually being absent.

So when Andraste showed up much, much later, she was advocating a return to the "rightful" worship of the Maker... it was not a belief that came out of nowhere.

I'll have to go re-read WoT on this point...

edit: And, NO, I don't think you're crazy! Speculate away!  I'm still votin' for mistake. That wavy sun symbol shows up way, way too often in DA concept art.

That's really, interesting, R2! It does kind of blow the book's "hey, this was a brand-new religion no one had ever heard about!" out of the water. So the sun symbol really could have been connected to the Maker that long ago. It says that the Old Gods started whispering to humanity beginning in -2800 Ancient, so they may have already believed in the Maker before they even landed in Thedas.

I wonder if anyone even remembered him when Andraste began preaching? And I wonder if she first heard about the Maker from her grandmother, or found him in an ancient scroll --- or if she literally knew nothing of his existence and he legitimately began speaking to her?

Man, I don't know. Now, the old DG quote does say that he wasn't called the Maker. That timeline you quote makes a point of saying, "Andraste begins preaching a new creator, whom she calls the Maker," which suggests to me that names are important here.  So it could still be consistent with WoT.

At very least, it seems at least plausible that the sun/Maker/creator connection was always there. Wow... since the time humans came to Thedas?  That could be cool. That post by DG, if you get a chance to read the whole thing (he has several posts after it as well, re: elves, dwarves, darkspawn), leaves it as an open question whether the Old Gods and the Maker were coeval. Heh heh. Soooo interesting!

Modifié par R2s Muse, 22 mai 2013 - 05:17 .

[LolaLei]

They "came to Thedas"? Where were they before that?

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Yeah, I do hope the artists are thoroughly brought up to speed w/lore. It's something that if contradictory can cause a great deal of confusion. Fans take the art very srsly. And we take it for granted that the visual artists and literary artists are on the same page.

We pick up alot of info visually in game. I hope what they present is a conscious effort in line w/the lore thus far.

If it's just a mistake, they darn well shouldn't have included it in the lore book without photoshopping the symbol out first. That's what editors are for. M-Law promises in the forward that it's "ruthlessly fact checked" (for whatever that's worth -- I feel like I already caught a few inconsistencies, though my understanding of the lore isn't perfect).

Unless they just didn't think we'd be smart enough to catch on to it, which: 

  He and Ben Gelinas have already acknowledged that there are errors. Some were fixed for the second printing. MLaw suggested posting an errata sheet on their blog. Here's hoping it comes out soon.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Yeah, I do hope the artists are thoroughly brought up to speed w/lore. It's something that if contradictory can cause a great deal of confusion. Fans take the art very srsly. And we take it for granted that the visual artists and literary artists are on the same page.

We pick up alot of info visually in game. I hope what they present is a conscious effort in line w/the lore thus far.

If it's just a mistake, they darn well shouldn't have included it in the lore book without photoshopping the symbol out first. That's what editors are for. M-Law promises in the forward that it's "ruthlessly fact checked" (for whatever that's worth -- I feel like I already caught a few inconsistencies, though my understanding of the lore isn't perfect).

Unless they just didn't think we'd be smart enough to catch on to it, which: 

They've released a second version correcting the inconsistences apparently.

Sadly, only a few. BGelinas said they didn't have much time.

[brushyourteeth]

rapscallioness wrote...

Well, Brushyourteeth, it may not be a mistake. If the symbol is has it should be on the dwarf, perhaps it does indeed represent something far older that we don't know abt.

As far as the title of "the Maker", that did in fact begin w/Andraste. The title. Now, the Creator its based on may have been in circulation long before, but w/Andraste it got a reboot. New name and everything.

Soooo maybe technically the book is right?

Those are good points.

I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that the symbol is super-ancient and meant something before the Chantry. Where the wild speculation part comes in is in asking what it could have meant and if it ought to draw into doubt the integrity of the Chantry order as we understand it.

Like if we suddenly found out that a modern-day religious icon had been used in common between historical elite that didn't have much to do with that particular religion. Does that mean that someone who already identified with that symbol jumped on the religious bandwagon and rode it to power? (Archon Hessarion or Emperor Drakon, for examples?)

'Course, again, that's just speculation for the lulz. It could have been an artistic mistake.

[LolaLei]

Does that mean that Alistair could still be Fiona's son?

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

They "came to Thedas"? Where were they before that?

"No one knows."

[brushyourteeth]

Didn't have much time? That's bull. brushyourteeth disapproves -30.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

They "came to Thedas"? Where were they before that?

"No one knows."

So they evolved then? 

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

They "came to Thedas"? Where were they before that?

"No one knows."

So they evolved then? 

WoT says something like they came to Thedas from another land. The elves and dwarves were already here.

[R2s Muse]

Instead of paraphrasing, I'll just repost this.

R2s Muse wrote...

This is the best DA news I've heard in a while!



Yay, errata!!!

[rapscallioness]

oh! I like this underwear! Recently Laidlaw was asking what swag we'd want. I would sum different undergarments w/different DA symbols on them. My own secret pleasure. Dragon Age Secret's. Different colors. Diff symbols. Cuz sumdays I feel like a Templar, and sumdays a mage. And well, sumdays I'm inquisitive and seeker-y.

A matching set of bra and panties! Seeker symbol, and templar symbol...do the mages have a symbol?

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Does that mean that Alistair could still be Fiona's son?

This is my hope. The only thing that really bothers me is the 9:14 date for the Calling. If they switch it back to 9:10, as I believe was originally intended and makes MUCH more sense, then indeed he could be Fiona's son, timing wise.

[brushyourteeth]

R2s Muse wrote...

Instead of paraphrasing, I'll just repost this.

R2s Muse wrote...

This is the best DA news I've heard in a while!



Yay, errata!!!

That girl did a good job of politely saying "Y'all are incompetent"