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[LolaLei]

I hope against hope that Cullen doesn't look like that in DA3. That guys face creeps me out.

Modifié par LolaLei, 22 mai 2013 - 05:27 .

[rapscallioness]

LolaLei wrote...

They "came to Thedas"? Where were they before that?

Jersey.

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Like if we suddenly found out that a modern-day religious icon had been used in common between historical elite that didn't have much to do with that particular religion. Does that mean that someone who already identified with that symbol jumped on the religious bandwagon and rode it to power? (Archon Hessarion or Emperor Drakon, for examples?)

Conquerors in our world often boosted their legitimacy by coopting local iconography. That could be a very obvious thing for them to do, borrow ancient creator symbology for their "new" religion. Particularly if no one remembers it. Except the dwarves. Since they remember everything. LOL

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

I hope against hope that Cullen doesn't look like that in DA3. That guys face creeps me out.

LOL I do like his undies, tho. I'd buy those underoos!

[LolaLei]

rapscallioness wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

They "came to Thedas"? Where were they before that?

Jersey.

Oh Maker! 

[rapscallioness]

R2s Muse wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Like if we suddenly found out that a modern-day religious icon had been used in common between historical elite that didn't have much to do with that particular religion. Does that mean that someone who already identified with that symbol jumped on the religious bandwagon and rode it to power? (Archon Hessarion or Emperor Drakon, for examples?)

Conquerors in our world often boosted their legitimacy by coopting local iconography. That could be a very obvious thing for them to do, borrow ancient creator symbology for their "new" religion. Particularly if no one remembers it. Except the dwarves. Since they remember everything. LOL

Yes, this is my understanding as well. From what I understand, symbols and even religious locations have been coopted. Heck, even the gods themselves have been coopted.

I think it makes it an "easier" transition for a belief system. Something borrowed. Something blue, I guess.

Yeah, the guys face is creepy-ish. Idk, it's just something abt. it. Altho, I don't wanna knock the artist cuz I can't even do that much. You'd be looking at Cullen the stick figure version. Rawr....

I would luv the small clothes, tho. Ha! Some kick butt panties w/Templar symbol right on the lid of the cookie jar.

Or another symbol.

[brushyourteeth]

R2s Muse wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Like if we suddenly found out that a modern-day religious icon had been used in common between historical elite that didn't have much to do with that particular religion. Does that mean that someone who already identified with that symbol jumped on the religious bandwagon and rode it to power? (Archon Hessarion or Emperor Drakon, for examples?)

Conquerors in our world often boosted their legitimacy by coopting local iconography. That could be a very obvious thing for them to do, borrow ancient creator symbology for their "new" religion. Particularly if no one remembers it. Except the dwarves. Since they remember everything. LOL

I think this is definitely the most likely explanation. Barring the "it was a mistake" theory, of course.

I still would really like to know more, if that's the case, though. What did it mean before? Who used it? How did it come to be adopted by the Chantry?

I really wouldn't be surprised to find that the Chant turned out to be a big ol' whopper someone used to manipulate others. Even Andraste used the story to gain support for the rebellion (even if she was earnest). The only thing about that that still boggles my mind is that fade spirits believe in the Maker. If anything's enough to convince me that he exists (whether the Chantry's right about him or not) -- it's that.

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Like if we suddenly found out that a modern-day religious icon had been used in common between historical elite that didn't have much to do with that particular religion. Does that mean that someone who already identified with that symbol jumped on the religious bandwagon and rode it to power? (Archon Hessarion or Emperor Drakon, for examples?)

Conquerors in our world often boosted their legitimacy by coopting local iconography. That could be a very obvious thing for them to do, borrow ancient creator symbology for their "new" religion. Particularly if no one remembers it. Except the dwarves. Since they remember everything. LOL

I think this is definitely the most likely explanation. Barring the "it was a mistake" theory, of course.

I still would really like to know more, if that's the case, though. What did it mean before? Who used it? How did it come to be adopted by the Chantry?

I really wouldn't be surprised to find that the Chant turned out to be a big ol' whopper someone used to manipulate others. Even Andraste used the story to gain support for the rebellion (even if she was earnest). The only thing about that that still boggles my mind is that fade spirits believe in the Maker. If anything's enough to convince me that he exists (whether the Chantry's right about him or not) -- it's that.

Good point about the spirits. It still begs the question of "what" the Maker is... but I don't really want to know!

On the symbology... you know, frankly, I almost get a disconnect between that and the game/lore, to be honest. The wiki has all these pics of heraldry that come in the game files that are never really used elsewhere. For example, this supposedly is the templar heraldry:




HOLD THE PRESSES!!  HA!  Look at the Carta dwarfs "heraldry"!! (mystery solved?)

Modifié par R2s Muse, 22 mai 2013 - 05:50 .

[rapscallioness]

Aren't the Fade spirits kinda of...influenced by the "dreams" of mortals, tho?

I could see a concept of the Maker existing in the Fade at this point simply cuz ppl in Thedas have put so much energy of belief into it. The concept could very well manifest in sum form in the Fade.

Or, there really is a Maker. I'd be down w/that, too. Though it's not nearly as intriguing an idea to me. Not the same dramaz, and all that.

[rapscallioness]

AHA! Carta Heraldry!

But still.....

[brushyourteeth]

R2s Muse wrote...

On the symbology... you know, frankly, I almost get a disconnect between that and the game/lore, to be honest. The wiki has all these pics of heraldry that come in the game files that are never really used elsewhere. For example, this supposedly is the templar heraldry:




HOLD THE PRESSES!!  HA!  Look at the Carta dwarfs "heraldry"!!

WHOA!!!!

So, what, does that mean it was a symbol commonly used by dwarves, for some reason (the carta and the upper class aren't supposed to be publicly linked)? Do they suddenly love the sun? Is it a cave spider with too many legs?

Or was one of the first Inquisitors a former carta dwarf? Are the artists just lazy? My mind can't even...

[R2s Muse]

LOL I know. Mind officially blown. Still collating...

[neonmoth]

But it still is very surprising how similar the two are...





Edit: I know it's probably digging for sth that may not exist but it would be great if the symbol had some ancient roots and deeper meaning.

Modifié par neonmoth, 22 mai 2013 - 05:56 .

[rapscallioness]

Or the symbol still has sum ancient meaning and the Carta used it, too.

Man, everybody luvs that symbol. It is purty.

[rapscallioness]

Ah well, I hope there's an interesting reason for the prevalence of this symbol. I'd really like that to be the case, and not just "because raisins".

Modifié par rapscallioness, 22 mai 2013 - 05:58 .

[brushyourteeth]

Okay, okay.... um... the Tevinter Imperium funded the founding of the carta for cash purposes.

That's all I have. And it's so stupid that I'm only posting it so that you guys know how not-serious I am about trying to even understand this thing. LOL

If only we could know that it wasn't a mistake. How infuriating!! Get you sh*t together, Bioware!!

[rapscallioness]

Oh, but that's interesting to me. The Tevinters funding the Carta, and you have this apparently ancient symbol slapped onto everything. Hmmm.

I'm thinking we may need to dovetail this into sum Cullen themed talk.

Uh.....I think if Cullen were in DA3 and we are indeed Inquisitors--it would very much mesh for him.

With the Inquisitors basically founding the Templars. It would be a legit undertaking for him. Get back to the roots of Templar beliefs. (that's all i got)

[LolaLei]

Maybe the Carta were respected back then until someone ballsed it up?

[brushyourteeth]

According to that heraldry page, they definitely changed the carta symbol for DAII. So they just, what, retconned and gave the symbol to another faction? What bull.

[LolaLei]

What DA2 song would be best for Cassandra's intro to my speculation video? I can't use the Florence & The Machine - "I'm Not Calling You a Liar" because of copyright 'n' ****.

[brushyourteeth]

So it's possible that the portrait of Stonehammer was concept art from DA:O (not sure why they'd bother to paint him, but I admittedly don't know squat about the game developing process) and all the artists had was this one symbol for dwarves so they stuck it onto his belt and it really should have been photoshopped out for the book.

OR, Stonehammer, being the first Paragon, worked his way into power by being a Carta man and founded the first noble house, but kept the gear for fun. And it really should have been photoshopped out for the book.

OR it means something and we don't know what.

[R2s Muse]

LOL But even the Tevinter Chantry doesn't use that sun!



bvwlkjfklsdjf oijklwnkls dhf;sdjf ksjflkjflsjdk grr.

[brushyourteeth]

LolaLei wrote...

What DA2 song would be best for Cassandra's intro to my speculation video? I can't use the Florence & The Machine - "I'm Not Calling You a Liar" because of copyright 'n' ****.

What kind of mood are you going for?

[brushyourteeth]

So much retcon I can't even...

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

So it's possible that the portrait of Stonehammer was concept art from DA:O (not sure why they'd bother to paint him, but I admittedly don't know squat about the game developing process) and all the artists had was this one symbol for dwarves so they stuck it onto his belt and it really should have been photoshopped out for the book.

OR, Stonehammer, being the first Paragon, worked his way into power by being a Carta man and founded the first noble house, but kept the gear for fun. And it really should have been photoshopped out for the book.

OR it means something and we don't know what.

Apparently the art in the book is all from some big folder they just dump all their concept art into. So that's why it's a grab bag of art from all the games.

Someone should ask someone about that pesky sun!