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[vieralynn]

R2: The DA:O ages in the toolset appear to have been casting notes for the actors. Alistair is not in his early 30s which is what the toolset says and DG has already had a few humorous fits over people thinking that Alistair is actually 30ish. ;D

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...

Color me curious as well! So, I've been figuring that that he's roughly the same age as the Warden and Hawke, give or take. Over on the Cullen fan group Samara once upon a time convinced me that Amell is a bit older than Hawke (based on a comment about how the Amells had no luck after Revka had her mage daughter, and then Leandra ran off after that). Leandra ran off pregnant with Hawke 25 years before the start of DA2. So I figure in 9:30, Hawke's around 24-25, Amell must be a bit older... 25-26? (which seems pretty old for someone going through the Harrowing...). Then, Cullen must be around that as well, putting him at at least 32ish in Act 3 and 35ish during the interrogation. So there's my wild speculation!

While that seems a bit old for the Warden, I can't imagine Cullen being in his twenties for the entirety of DA2. That just seems too young, but... :shrug:

Now, I thought I read somewhere that the DA:O toolset told you ages...? It would be nice to have a few more details.

Just read Samara's post on the Cullen fan group. Right, the Amell crest, I remember that. 

Revka could have had more than one child, so the Warden might not have been Revka's first mage. Also, 26 seems really old for a Harrowing. I eye that skeptically. 

My speculations on Cullen's age place him ever so slightly younger than yours. For some reason, early 30s feels right for Cullen in Act 3. Not sure why, but it does...

[LolaLei]

My theory is that if they even mention his age, they'll retcon it in DA:O to 18/19/20 so that he'll be young enough to romance without having to age his face or anything.

Plus he keeps refering to himself as being really young when he was in the Circle Tower. His DA:O epilogues refer to him as "the young Templar Cullen."

Modifié par LolaLei, 12 juin 2012 - 11:49 .

[berelinde]

And 21 at the start of Act 1 seems *very* young to be Knight-Captain, even if he does have problems saying the word "brothel". (sigh)

Well, I'd be the last person to reject a potential LI because of an age difference. I wrote an expansion for the Casavir for NWN2 ("well into his 30s" vs 20-ish), a romance mod for Keldorn (need I say more), and am currently working on an original fic that has a 20-year age difference between the protagonist and her eventual lover.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

My theory is that if they even mention his age, they'll retcon it in DA:O to 18/19/20 so that he'll be young enough to romance without having to age his face or anything.

Plus he keeps refering to himself as being really young when he was in the Circle Tower, despite looking a lot older in DA:O.

I'm not sure Cullen needs to be all that young to romance in DA3.  

Although we don't know how old Anders is, general consensus among a variety of other fans puts him in his 30s throughout DA2's events, possibly even just around 40 when he blows up the Chantry. Anders is almost definately older than the mage Warden and enough so that they were in different cohorts when receiving their training. So, the mage Warden is between 19-26 in 9:30 (26 being that crazy high number if s/he's Revka's first mage child and slightly older than Hawke) and to put Anders in a completely different cohort, let's call him at least 5 years older. Although, if Karl was his first, I'd want to bump Anders up just a little more because Karl clearly looks over 40.

[edited to add: And as I say below, I don't have a problem with age differences, but Karl looks somewhere between 45-55 in 9:31... I'd want some explanation for how Karl/Anders came about *and* *remained* *meaningful* if they were so widely separated in age.]

Modifié par vieralynn, 13 juin 2012 - 12:06 .

[vieralynn]

berelinde wrote...

And 21 at the start of Act 1 seems *very* young to be Knight-Captain, even if he does have problems saying the word "brothel". (sigh)

That's my feeling too. I can understand Meredith promoting Cullen because he's one of the few (only?!) templars in Kirkwall who has seen a Circle collapse to the point that an Annulment was considered, but promoting a 21 year old poses far more problems than promoting a 25 year old.

My headcanon is that the older templars completely disregard anything that Cullen has to say because he is far too young and far too inexperienced. Thus, when Cullen is clueless about Thrask's side experiment or Alrik's private rape ring, this is why. 

berelinde wrote...

Well, I'd be the last person to reject a potential LI because of an age difference. I wrote an expansion for the Casavir for NWN2 ("well into his 30s" vs 20-ish), a romance mod for Keldorn (need I say more), and am currently working on an original fic that has a 20-year age difference between the protagonist and her eventual lover.

Agreed. I've written some extremely age-imbalanced romances in fiction and I know of some in real life. Age differences happen.

Modifié par vieralynn, 13 juin 2012 - 12:07 .

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

And 21 at the start of Act 1 seems *very* young to be Knight-Captain, even if he does have problems saying the word "brothel". (sigh)

Well, I'd be the last person to reject a potential LI because of an age difference. I wrote an expansion for the Casavir for NWN2 ("well into his 30s" vs 20-ish), a romance mod for Keldorn (need I say more), and am currently working on an original fic that has a 20-year age difference between the protagonist and her eventual lover.

It does seem very young, but don't forget that back in medieval days young men were expected to behave a lot older than they really are (especially compared to todays standards), plus he's probably been working since his teens or earlier.

In his DA2 codex it says that Meredith hired him for their shared beliefs about Mages and he was promoted through the ranks quickly due to his first hand experience with blood magic, which Meredith believed would give her the upper hand by getting him to influence the new Templar recruits.

[LolaLei]

berelinde wrote...

Well, I'd be the last person to reject a potential LI because of an age difference. I wrote an expansion for the Casavir for NWN2 ("well into his 30s" vs 20-ish), a romance mod for Keldorn (need I say more), and am currently working on an original fic that has a 20-year age difference between the protagonist and her eventual lover.

Agreed. I've written some extremely age-imbalanced romances in fiction and I know of some in real life. Age differences happen.

True, it would probably be difficult to give him an age by looks alone anyway since most of the characters in DA:O and DA2 never looked their age anyway... with the exception of one or two, like Gamlen lol.

Modifié par LolaLei, 13 juin 2012 - 12:10 .

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

True, it would probably be difficult to give him an age by looks alone anyway since most of the characters in DA:O and DA2 never looked their age anyway... with the exception of one or two, like Gamlen lol.

We need to age Cullen by his stuttering. 

At what age can we imagine him finally being able to say "brothel?"  

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

True, it would probably be difficult to give him an age by looks alone anyway since most of the characters in DA:O and DA2 never looked their age anyway... with the exception of one or two, like Gamlen lol.

We need to age Cullen by his stuttering. 

At what age can we imagine him finally being able to say "brothel?"  

Hm, probably when he finally gets used to getting laid!

[vieralynn]

When he finally gets used to getting laid?! XDDDD

Sounds like the first few times will be nothing but fumbling and stuttering and lots of embarrassed "am I doing this right," "oh, sorry, didn't mean to do that," and "oooooh! that was unexpected."

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

When he finally gets used to getting laid?! XDDDD

Sounds like the first few times will be nothing but fumbling and stuttering and lots of embarrassed "am I doing this right," "oh, sorry, didn't mean to do that," and "oooooh! that was unexpected."

LOL! Exactly like that! He'll probably be grinning like an idiot and blushing at the thought of "the night before" for the first 5 or 6 times.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

When he finally gets used to getting laid?! XDDDD

Sounds like the first few times will be nothing but fumbling and stuttering and lots of embarrassed "am I doing this right," "oh, sorry, didn't mean to do that," and "oooooh! that was unexpected."

LOL! Exactly like that! He'll probably be grinning like an idiot and blushing at the thought of "the night before" for the first 5 or 6 times.

And, after the first 5 or 6 times, his S.O. casually mentions the word "brothel" just as Cullen is drinking something, and he nearly chokes on what he's drinking and turns bright red because *NOW* he can fully imagine what goes on in a brothel. For the next six months, he can't even get the "br" past his lips without stuttering and turning a lovely shade of crimson.

[R2s Muse]

You know it's funny... 21 does seem too young to be promoted and yet... it did happen shortly after the Blight. Hawke meets him in Act 1 in 9:31, so regardless of his actual age he really was promoted within a year of him seeming so young in DA:O. So, I suppose his youthful appearance isn't really a good indicator one way or another. Now, that said, I still think I'd prefer the 25ish when he comes to Kirkwall, probably because he just seemed closer to 30 throughout DA2.

@vieralynn, thanks for the clarification about the ages in the toolset. I'd never heard that about the actors' notes, nor that Alistair was flagged as in his 30s. Still, I do wonder what it said about Cullen. Greg Ellis sounds SO YOUNG in DA:O, I wonder what he was told about the character. Of course, that could also be a reflection not of physical age but merely lack of experience given his probably sheltered upbringing.

Coming back to DA3, as I've said before, I have no problem with him being older than the PC for the purposes of romance. I might have a bit of difficulty suspending my disbelief when a boss-level character like Cullen shows up in the next game at a low level. On the other hand, they did the same thing with Anders, and that didn't seem to bother me or most anyone else. Like vieralynn mentioned, he seems to be older than Hawke, and then he was also a high level character in Awakenings who then shows up low level during Act 1.

So, anyhoo, I think so long as DA3 picks up within the next decade or two after DA2, Cullen will be yummy fair game.

[R2s Muse]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

When he finally gets used to getting laid?! XDDDD

Sounds like the first few times will be nothing but fumbling and stuttering and lots of embarrassed "am I doing this right," "oh, sorry, didn't mean to do that," and "oooooh! that was unexpected."

LOL! Exactly like that! He'll probably be grinning like an idiot and blushing at the thought of "the night before" for the first 5 or 6 times.

And, after the first 5 or 6 times, his S.O. casually mentions the word "brothel" just as Cullen is drinking something, and he nearly chokes on what he's drinking and turns bright red because *NOW* he can fully imagine what goes on in a brothel. For the next six months, he can't even get the "br" past his lips without stuttering and turning a lovely shade of crimson.

Heh heh, you know I could totally see him getting used to the whole safe, monogamous sex thing with his partner way before he's okay with the concept of a brothel.  Ah, such fun inhibitions those would be to break down...

[vieralynn]

Greg Ellis' portrayal of Cullen in DA:O sounds far younger for the female mage than the male mage, particularly in the origin story. For the male mage, Cullen conveys some sense of authority until he becomes nervous about the possibility of abominations in the tower without anyone realizing.

The more we collectively think about this, I like the idea of keeping Cullen young enough that the older templars (Thrask, Alrik, etc.) do not take Cullen serious at all, but having Cullen see his 30th birthday before Act 3 begins.

As for all of Cullen's stuttering and awkward shyness, I like to think of him as a late bloomer.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

@vieralynn, thanks for the clarification about the ages in the toolset. I'd never heard that about the actors' notes, nor that Alistair was flagged as in his 30s. Still, I do wonder what it said about Cullen. Greg Ellis sounds SO YOUNG in DA:O.

He sounds very young when you talk to him during the Mage origin as a female, but if you talk to him as a male he sounds pretty much the same as he does in DA2 just more clueless lol.

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

When he finally gets used to getting laid?! XDDDD

Sounds like the first few times will be nothing but fumbling and stuttering and lots of embarrassed "am I doing this right," "oh, sorry, didn't mean to do that," and "oooooh! that was unexpected."

LOL! Exactly like that! He'll probably be grinning like an idiot and blushing at the thought of "the night before" for the first 5 or 6 times.

And, after the first 5 or 6 times, his S.O. casually mentions the word "brothel" just as Cullen is drinking something, and he nearly chokes on what he's drinking and turns bright red because *NOW* he can fully imagine what goes on in a brothel. For the next six months, he can't even get the "br" past his lips without stuttering and turning a lovely shade of crimson.

Heh heh, you know I could totally see him getting used to the whole safe, monogamous sex thing with his partner way before he's okay with the concept of a brothel.  Ah, such fun inhibitions those would be to break down...

I have a hard time imagining Cullen ever feeling okay with the concept of a brothel.  I mean, I don't see him judging others who go to brothels, but Cullen? In a brothel? 

He strikes me far, far, far too uncomfortable with anything that isn't monogamous and serious (or, at least potentially serious, or serious in his mind). Maybe I'm reading something into him that isnt there, but I have absolutely no trouble picturing him as a devoutly faithful partner once he is set on someone. (Sadly, I picture him as devoutly faithful to relationships that exists almost entirely in his mind...)

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

Greg Ellis' portrayal of Cullen in DA:O sounds far younger for the female mage than the male mage, particularly in the origin story. For the male mage, Cullen conveys some sense of authority until he becomes nervous about the possibility of abominations in the tower without anyone realizing.

The more we collectively think about this, I like the idea of keeping Cullen young enough that the older templars (Thrask, Alrik, etc.) do not take Cullen serious at all, but having Cullen see his 30th birthday before Act 3 begins.

As for all of Cullen's stuttering and awkward shyness, I like to think of him as a late bloomer.

Lol you beat me to it!

I too like to imagine that the elder Templars and those who were part of the Kirkwall Templars before Cullen arrived don't really take any notice to his orders and are probably bitter that he was promoted through the ranks so quickly when they had probably been trying to get promoted for years. That's another reason why they gossip about him being in love with the female mage Warden, just to isolate him even futher.... Poor baby.

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

When he finally gets used to getting laid?! XDDDD

Sounds like the first few times will be nothing but fumbling and stuttering and lots of embarrassed "am I doing this right," "oh, sorry, didn't mean to do that," and "oooooh! that was unexpected."

LOL! Exactly like that! He'll probably be grinning like an idiot and blushing at the thought of "the night before" for the first 5 or 6 times.

And, after the first 5 or 6 times, his S.O. casually mentions the word "brothel" just as Cullen is drinking something, and he nearly chokes on what he's drinking and turns bright red because *NOW* he can fully imagine what goes on in a brothel. For the next six months, he can't even get the "br" past his lips without stuttering and turning a lovely shade of crimson.

Heh heh, you know I could totally see him getting used to the whole safe, monogamous sex thing with his partner way before he's okay with the concept of a brothel.  Ah, such fun inhibitions those would be to break down...

I have a hard time imagining Cullen ever feeling okay with the concept of a brothel.  I mean, I don't see him judging others who go to brothels, but Cullen? In a brothel? 

He strikes me far, far, far too uncomfortable with anything that isn't monogamous and serious (or, at least potentially serious, or serious in his mind). Maybe I'm reading something into him that isnt there, but I have absolutely no trouble picturing him as a devoutly faithful partner once he is set on someone. (Sadly, I picture him as devoutly faithful to relationships that exists almost entirely in his mind...)

That's why I intend to drag him into EVERY brothel in Orlais, just to watch him squirm... I may even shag a prostitute infront of him (like in DA2) just for his reaction (of course, I'll save just before I do it so it doesn't ruin my chances with him later in the game LOL!)

I figured that if DG 'n' co had wanted him to get laid/make it clear that he's not a virgin then they would have had him visiting the brothel with the others. The fact that he didn't, in my mind, means they have something planned for him in DA3 companion/love interest wise (hopefully), I mean, seeing him in the Blooming Rose in DA2 would totally put off a lot of people from romancing him in the future.

Modifié par LolaLei, 13 juin 2012 - 01:23 .

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

Greg Ellis' portrayal of Cullen in DA:O sounds far younger for the female mage than the male mage, particularly in the origin story. For the male mage, Cullen conveys some sense of authority until he becomes nervous about the possibility of abominations in the tower without anyone realizing.

The more we collectively think about this, I like the idea of keeping Cullen young enough that the older templars (Thrask, Alrik, etc.) do not take Cullen serious at all, but having Cullen see his 30th birthday before Act 3 begins.

As for all of Cullen's stuttering and awkward shyness, I like to think of him as a late bloomer.

Lol you beat me to it!

I too like to imagine that the elder Templars and those who were part of the Kirkwall Templars before Cullen arrived don't really take any notice to his orders and are probably bitter that he was promoted through the ranks so quickly when they had probably been trying to get promoted for years. That's another reason why they gossip about him being in love with the female mage Warden, just to isolate him even futher.... Poor baby.

I can imagine Meredith announcing Cullen's promotion. The templars with more experience than Cullen has years of age end up grumbling later that evening. Those grumbling reactions to Meredith's annoucement would sound something like this:

Random Elder Templar 1:  "Oh, and thank you for your 30 years of service. You will now report to a Ferelden boy who was spooked by a few mages and he did nothing but whine and whimper while his brothers were slain."

Random Templar 2:  "Whine and whimper about the tempations of a seductively pretty young mage. At least, that's what I've heard."

Random Templar 3:  "I heard he was frightened those mages would take away his virginity."

Random Elder Templar 1:  "Wonderful. We're expected to report to a Knight-Captain who doesn't know how to use his sword? I say we ignore him."



Unlike in Ferelden, I suspect Cullen had absolutely zero friends among the Kirkwall templars.

Modifié par vieralynn, 13 juin 2012 - 01:33 .

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

Greg Ellis' portrayal of Cullen in DA:O sounds far younger for the female mage than the male mage, particularly in the origin story. For the male mage, Cullen conveys some sense of authority until he becomes nervous about the possibility of abominations in the tower without anyone realizing.

The more we collectively think about this, I like the idea of keeping Cullen young enough that the older templars (Thrask, Alrik, etc.) do not take Cullen serious at all, but having Cullen see his 30th birthday before Act 3 begins.

As for all of Cullen's stuttering and awkward shyness, I like to think of him as a late bloomer.

Lol you beat me to it!

I too like to imagine that the elder Templars and those who were part of the Kirkwall Templars before Cullen arrived don't really take any notice to his orders and are probably bitter that he was promoted through the ranks so quickly when they had probably been trying to get promoted for years. That's another reason why they gossip about him being in love with the female mage Warden, just to isolate him even futher.... Poor baby.

I can imagine Meredith announcing Cullen's promotion. The templars with more experience than Cullen has years of age end up grumbling later that evening. Those grumbling reactions to Meredith's annoucement would sound something like this:

Random Elder Templar 1:  "Oh, and thank you for your 30 years of service. You will now report to a Ferelden boy who was spooked by a few mages and he did nothing but whine and whimper while his brothers were slain."

Random Templar 2:  "Whine and whimper about the tempations of a seductively pretty young mage. At least, that's what I've heard."

Random Templar 3:  "I heard he was frightened those mages would take away his virginity."

Random Elder Templar 1:  "Wonderful. We're expected to report to a Knight-Captain who doesn't know how to use his sword? I say we ignore him."



Unlike in Ferelden, I suspect Cullen had absolutely zero friends among the Kirkwall templars.

The fact that he's from Ferelden probably made things worse, we've seen first hand how rude Kirkwallers are about anyone from Ferelden, including Hawke.

Y'know, I've always wondered how everyone in the Gallows found about about Cullen being in love with the Warden? I mean, most of the mages from Ferelden were dead or sent to fight the Blight so I doubt any were transfered to Kirkwall... Unless Gregoir had mentioned it to Meredith when they transfered him over, giving her the heads up that he was in love with a mage once, just incase it happened again and perhaps one of the Templars or Mages overheard the conversation and that's how it spread about.

[LolaLei]

I wonder if DG 'n' co would have him talk about his time as Knight-Captain to the new protagonist? I'd love to hear from the horses mouth how he got on there... I could imagine him saying something about never having many friends and how he felt isolated in Kirkwall partly through being the other Templars superior, but also because they made an effort to make him feel excluded.

[R2s Muse]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

Greg Ellis' portrayal of Cullen in DA:O sounds far younger for the female mage than the male mage, particularly in the origin story. For the male mage, Cullen conveys some sense of authority until he becomes nervous about the possibility of abominations in the tower without anyone realizing.

The more we collectively think about this, I like the idea of keeping Cullen young enough that the older templars (Thrask, Alrik, etc.) do not take Cullen serious at all, but having Cullen see his 30th birthday before Act 3 begins.

As for all of Cullen's stuttering and awkward shyness, I like to think of him as a late bloomer.

Lol you beat me to it!

I too like to imagine that the elder Templars and those who were part of the Kirkwall Templars before Cullen arrived don't really take any notice to his orders and are probably bitter that he was promoted through the ranks so quickly when they had probably been trying to get promoted for years. That's another reason why they gossip about him being in love with the female mage Warden, just to isolate him even futher.... Poor baby.

I can imagine Meredith announcing Cullen's promotion. The templars with more experience than Cullen has years of age end up grumbling later that evening. Those grumbling reactions to Meredith's annoucement would sound something like this:

Random Elder Templar 1:  "Oh, and thank you for your 30 years of service. You will now report to a Ferelden boy who was spooked by a few mages and he did nothing but whine and whimper while his brothers were slain."

Random Templar 2:  "Whine and whimper about the tempations of a seductively pretty young mage. At least, that's what I've heard."

Random Templar 3:  "I heard he was frightened those mages would take away his virginity."

Random Elder Templar 1:  "Wonderful. We're expected to report to a Knight-Captain who doesn't know how to use his sword? I say we ignore him."



Unlike in Ferelden, I suspect Cullen had absolutely zero friends among the Kirkwall templars.

Totally agree with this picture. Given what the codex says about how quickly he was promoted and why, it seems only natural that everyone would resent him for sailing up the ranks while they "work hard." His  young age would be the ideal additional catalyst to foment this resentment.

And, you know, I've never done the male mage origin, so I had no idea! OK, so not SO young in DA:O, just jumpy.

So, OK, if he's at least 30 by Act 3, then he's 23 in the Circle and 24 in Act 1. That works, although I might be tempted to push him up a  a year or so, so he's not younger than Hawke.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

The fact that he's from Ferelden probably made things worse, we've seen first hand how rude Kirkwallers are about anyone from Ferelden, including Hawke.

Y'know, I've always wondered how everyone in the Gallows found about about Cullen being in love with the Warden? I mean, most of the mages from Ferelden were dead or sent to fight the Blight so I doubt any were transfered to Kirkwall... Unless Gregoir had mentioned it to Meredith when they transfered him over, giving her the heads up that he was in love with a mage once, just incase it happened again and perhaps one of the Templars or Mages overheard the conversation and that's how it spread about.

Those Kirkwallers weren't shy when showing how they felt about Fereldens.  

Whenever people say that they dislike Cullen because he was Knight-Captain yet he did nothing about all that was wrong in the Gallows, I think about how powerless Cullen probably was. Maybe I'm wrong or I'm reading something into the script that goes against the writers' ideas, but Cullen always felt like someone who doesn't have actual authority despite his title. 

No idea how those Cullen/mage!Warden rumors spread to Kirkwall.  I imagine Cullen was quite miserable in Kirkwall. Once I started thinking about how miserable he probably was, whenever Hawke has opportunities to say something friendly to Cullen, I wondered if Hawke was one of the old people who gave him any time, and if that was the reason why Cullen willingly shares personal details about his past such as having nightmares, etc.