89415 réponses à ce sujet

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

I can imagine Meredith announcing Cullen's promotion. The templars with more experience than Cullen has years of age end up grumbling later that evening. Those grumbling reactions to Meredith's annoucement would sound something like this:

Random Elder Templar 1:  "Oh, and thank you for your 30 years of service. You will now report to a Ferelden boy who was spooked by a few mages and he did nothing but whine and whimper while his brothers were slain."

Random Templar 2:  "Whine and whimper about the tempations of a seductively pretty young mage. At least, that's what I've heard."

Random Templar 3:  "I heard he was frightened those mages would take away his virginity."

Random Elder Templar 1:  "Wonderful. We're expected to report to a Knight-Captain who doesn't know how to use his sword? I say we ignore him."



Unlike in Ferelden, I suspect Cullen had absolutely zero friends among the Kirkwall templars.

Totally agree with this picture. Given what the codex says about how quickly he was promoted and why, it seems only natural that everyone would resent him for sailing up the ranks while they "work hard." His  young age would be the ideal additional catalyst to foment this resentment.

And, you know, I've never done the male mage origin, so I had no idea! OK, so not SO young in DA:O, just jumpy.

So, OK, if he's at least 30 by Act 3, then he's 23 in the Circle and 24 in Act 1. That works, although I might be tempted to push him up a  a year or so, so he's not younger than Hawke.

The more I think about what Cullen's professional life was like in Kirkwall, the more I just feel bad for him. And, from what we see, he had absolutely no life beyond his professional life.  

Heretical me actually ships Cullen with my canon Hawke and she's older than him by a little less than a year.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

I wonder if DG 'n' co would have him talk about his time as Knight-Captain to the new protagonist? I'd love to hear from the horses mouth how he got on there... I could imagine him saying something about never having many friends and how he felt isolated in Kirkwall partly through being the other Templars superior, but also because they made an effort to make him feel excluded.

YES! 

Even if Cullen only returns as an NPC, I want him to talk about his time in Kirkwall. There are many unanswered questions that can be guessed at through speculation, but for each guess there are other alternatives. As much as I like the speculations we have here, I'd love to know what writers think.

[LolaLei]

It seemed like he desperately wanted to talk to someone and when Hawke checks in for a friendly chat he often ended up revealing more than he intended, which shows that he still has a slight naivety about him to trust someone so easily (even if Hawke's pro-mage.)

I think Cullen was probably struggling to keep his head above water in his new title, especially as Meredith gradually descended into madness, I dare say he had to deal with a lot of her duties too when she started locking herself up in her office with her lyrium idol-sword. It seems like the Templars in Kirkwall pretty much done whatever they wanted behind the scenes and Cullen was powerless to stop them.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Y'know, I've always wondered how everyone in the Gallows found about about Cullen being in love with the Warden? I mean, most of the mages from Ferelden were dead or sent to fight the Blight so I doubt any were transfered to Kirkwall... Unless Gregoir had mentioned it to Meredith when they transfered him over, giving her the heads up that he was in love with a mage once, just incase it happened again and perhaps one of the Templars or Mages overheard the conversation and that's how it spread about.

Well, if you go back to the Circle in Witch Hunt, the gossips are at it again. Already! So, I bet you just can't keep a good rumor down. Plus, at least one of the Gallows mages is from Ferelden ... Evelina? I'd bet that would be one of the first things people heard about him as they wonder who this upstart Fereldan is.

I keep seeing the scene from Aliens.

She gestures with her chin. "Look. Who's Snow White?"

"He's supposed to be some kind of hero. Apparently, he saw an abomination once."

Everyone laughs derisively. "Well, whoopey-f*ckin-doo. Hey, I'm impressed."

Modifié par R2s Muse, 13 juin 2012 - 02:06 .

[R2s Muse]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

The fact that he's from Ferelden probably made things worse, we've seen first hand how rude Kirkwallers are about anyone from Ferelden, including Hawke.

Y'know, I've always wondered how everyone in the Gallows found about about Cullen being in love with the Warden? I mean, most of the mages from Ferelden were dead or sent to fight the Blight so I doubt any were transfered to Kirkwall... Unless Gregoir had mentioned it to Meredith when they transfered him over, giving her the heads up that he was in love with a mage once, just incase it happened again and perhaps one of the Templars or Mages overheard the conversation and that's how it spread about.

Those Kirkwallers weren't shy when showing how they felt about Fereldens.  

Whenever people say that they dislike Cullen because he was Knight-Captain yet he did nothing about all that was wrong in the Gallows, I think about how powerless Cullen probably was. Maybe I'm wrong or I'm reading something into the script that goes against the writers' ideas, but Cullen always felt like someone who doesn't have actual authority despite his title. 

No idea how those Cullen/mage!Warden rumors spread to Kirkwall.  I imagine Cullen was quite miserable in Kirkwall. Once I started thinking about how miserable he probably was, whenever Hawke has opportunities to say something friendly to Cullen, I wondered if Hawke was one of the old people who gave him any time, and if that was the reason why Cullen willingly shares personal details about his past such as having nightmares, etc.

:sniff:sniff: This makes me so sad for him! Ugh, I really could see this. He does seem to have a special connection with his "old friend" Hawke. Pobrecito!

And, I can't help but ship my Hawke with him as well... I mean, the way he stands up for her at the end. Yup.

[LolaLei]

R2: I'd totally forgotten about her! Well, it was probably her or one of the others who started spreading it around. It's sad to think that it caused him pain be it through unrequited love or embarrassment... I actually think it was remorse that upset him for the way he treated her after the broken circle event (especially if you killed her off lol), otherwise he wouldn't have been so dreamy about her when mentioning her to Hawke if he was ashamed.

Modifié par LolaLei, 13 juin 2012 - 02:11 .

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Y'know, I've always wondered how everyone in the Gallows found about about Cullen being in love with the Warden? I mean, most of the mages from Ferelden were dead or sent to fight the Blight so I doubt any were transfered to Kirkwall... Unless Gregoir had mentioned it to Meredith when they transfered him over, giving her the heads up that he was in love with a mage once, just incase it happened again and perhaps one of the Templars or Mages overheard the conversation and that's how it spread about.

Well, if you go back to the Circle in Witch Hunt, the gossips are at it again. Already! So, I bet you just can't keep a good rumor down. Plus, at least one of the Gallows mages is from Ferelden ... Evelina? I'd bet that would be one of the first things people heard about him as they wonder who this upstart Fereldan is.

I keep seeing the scene from Aliens.

She gestures with her chin. "Look. Who's Snow White?"

"He's supposed to be some kind of hero. Apparenty, he saw an abomination once."

Everyone laughs derisively. "Well, whoopey-f*ckin-doo. Hey, I'm impressed."

Mage Evelina from Ferelden?!  How have I managed to miss her?!  

Given how Cullen/mage was such a big item of gossip *during* the origin story, I'm certain that rumor took wings mighty fast. I think all of it is really sad given how Cullen still has fond feelings for the mage warden during Act 2. He strikes me as a rather naive, lonely person, and his lack of normal social relationships --- and I just mean having friends --- keeps him rather naive for far too long.

That scene from Aliens is perfect. Whoopey-f*ckin-doo indeed.  

[LolaLei]

However all his angst and naivety does make him ripe for the picking in DA3. The fact that he hasn't had much interaction with people outside of a professional capacity would make for some heart wretching and funny scenes. It would also add to our idea of him appreciating little things that others overlook, like having someone to chat to, being with a group of people that fight for each other (even if they don't get on) etc.

Aw, I think he'd make such a sweet companion/love interest, bless him.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2: I'd totally forgotten about her! Well, it was probably her or one of the others who started spreading it around. It's sad to think that it caused him pain be it through unrequited love or embarrassment... I actually think it was remorse that upset him for the way he treated her after the broken circle event (especially if you killed her off lol), otherwise he wouldn't have been so dreamy about her when mentioning her to Hawke if he was ashamed.

Hmm, good points. I wonder now... He did seem rather at peace with his remembrances of Amell, but then he seems to be such a diplomatic person that  he might just say that as a matter of course. I could see that perhaps he has personally come to terms with his crush, so bringing it up on his own to Hawke wouldn't be angst inducing. But, if we're correct in our picture of how the Kirkwall templars would treat him, I could see them being far from kind about something like that. It could be that Meredith forbade anyone mentioning it just because they were using it as additional fodder against him... not necessarily because he was ashamed.

[R2s Muse]

Well, I must bid adieu as I turn into a pumpkin. A parting Cullen.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 13 juin 2012 - 02:24 .

[LolaLei]

R2: Oooo I hadn't thought of it like that!

Perhaps it seemed to pain him because it was just another dirty tactic the Templars were using to isolate him futher. No doubt they probably openly joked about it infront of him, maybe even teased him with it in jest? I'm sure he was probably angry at himself for falling for a Mage and he probably did miss her too which added to his upset in the beginning, all of that must have brought back wistful memories of his time in the Circle prior to Uldreds uprising too. He must have missed his dead Templar brothers and sisters, he was still in mourning no doubt.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

It seemed like he desperately wanted to talk to someone and when Hawke checks in for a friendly chat he often ended up revealing more than he intended, which shows that he still has a slight naivety about him to trust someone so easily (even if Hawke's pro-mage.)
I think Cullen was probably struggling to keep his head above water in his new title, especially as Meredith gradually descended into madness, I dare say he had to deal with a lot of her duties too when she started locking herself up in her office with her lyrium idol-sword. It seems like the Templars in Kirkwall pretty much done whatever they wanted behind the scenes and Cullen was powerless to stop them.

Yes, all of this. I also wonder if Cullen felt a little more open around Hawke because Hawke was also from Ferelden.

Once Meredith became reclusive, the Gallows must have been a nightmare. Knight-Commanders is hiding in her office. Knight-Captain is a look at by others as a naive boy. Alrik and others are doing whatever they damn please.  Total disaster.

LolaLei wrote...

R2: I'd totally forgotten about her! Well, it was probably her or one of the others who started spreading it around. It's sad to think that it caused him pain be it through unrequited love or embarrassment... I actually think it was remorse that upset him for the way he treated her after the broken circle event (especially if you killed her off lol), otherwise he wouldn't have been so dreamy about her when mentioning her to Hawke if he was ashamed.

Those mages loved to gossip so no doubt that gossip was spread far and wide.  

Agreed about the remorse bit. I also think that there are many different ways to read the dialogue that occurs during Broken Circle. It is easy to cut off certain branches of the dialogue tree and depending on what the fem!mage!warden selects, the nature of the dialogue has very different subtext.

Here's one way that the fem mage can trigger the middle section of the dialogue with Cullen:

F!Mage: Makes you wish you hadn't said those things, doesn't it? 
Cullen: I am beyond caring what you think! The Maker knows my sin, and I pray that he will forgive me. 
F!Mage: Why does it cause you so much pain?
Cullen: You are a mage and I, a templar. It is my duty to oppose you and all you are. …Why have you returned to the tower? How did you survive?
F!Mage:  Is it so surprising that I've returned? This was my home. 
Cullen: As it was mine. And look what they've done to it. They deserve to die! Uldred most of all. Kill Uldred. Kill them all for what they've done. They caged us like animals... looked for ways to break us. I'm the only one left... They turned some into... monsters. And... there was nothing I could do.

To me, this isn't the rantings of an anti-mage "kill them all and let the maker sort them out" zealot. This is someone who:

1. Prior to Uldred's attack, experienced a lot of emotional pain over unrequitted/forbidden love (and he might have been teased about it given how gossipy the tower was).
2. When saying "it is my duty to oppose you," he is talking about how his duty causes him pain, not that he actually opposes her.
3. When the mage warden and Cullen both establish that they think of the tower as "home," Cullen sounds far more like he's trying to convince the warden to take revenge on Uldred and his followers for wrecking their home than he's asking her to Annul the circle. Annuling the circle is a cold, executive decision (or, it is supposed to be). What Cullen is asking in this variation of the dialogue is pure hot-headed revenge-- kill everyone who might even be vaguely involved in destroying our home.



So, I can easily imagine him 3 to 4 years later, thinking about how strong and heroic the mage warden was, and how rediculously helpless and horribly emotional Cullen was.  

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

However all his angst and naivety does make him ripe for the picking in DA3. The fact that he hasn't had much interaction with people outside of a professional capacity would make for some heart wretching and funny scenes. It would also add to our idea of him appreciating little things that others overlook, like having someone to chat to, being with a group of people that fight for each other (even if they don't get on) etc.

Aw, I think he'd make such a sweet companion/love interest, bless him.

Bless him indeed. Seriously, thinking too deeply about Cullen leaves me feeling a big mix of  and .

I agree that many of the little things in life are probably far more meaningful to him than the average person.

[LolaLei]

Vieralynn: I totally agree.

It's such a shame that people get the wrong impression about him, but I think maybe that's the point. I think DG 'n' co want him to come across as hard faced/cold so that you can gradually watch him soften up over time, perhaps in preparation for DA3 so that we finally get to see his vulnerability.

[vieralynn]

Most definitely. There's a lot of soft vulnerability under the colder, professional exterior that Cullen tries to wear in DA2.


I need to sign off too, go get some food, and then pretend I'm a responsible person who gets something done beyond thinking deeply about a sweetly broken Templar. 

But, at least he gets a little bit of happiness my modded DA2.  



(Now hopefully he doesn't bump noses with Hawke, say "ow! oh, I'm s-sorry," and then blush and make a few more awkward moves before laughing it off and getting it right.)

[brushyourteeth]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

It seemed like he desperately wanted to talk to someone and when Hawke checks in for a friendly chat he often ended up revealing more than he intended, which shows that he still has a slight naivety about him to trust someone so easily (even if Hawke's pro-mage.)
I think Cullen was probably struggling to keep his head above water in his new title, especially as Meredith gradually descended into madness, I dare say he had to deal with a lot of her duties too when she started locking herself up in her office with her lyrium idol-sword. It seems like the Templars in Kirkwall pretty much done whatever they wanted behind the scenes and Cullen was powerless to stop them.

Yes, all of this. I also wonder if Cullen felt a little more open around Hawke because Hawke was also from Ferelden.

Once Meredith became reclusive, the Gallows must have been a nightmare. Knight-Commanders is hiding in her office. Knight-Captain is a look at by others as a naive boy. Alrik and others are doing whatever they damn please.  Total disaster.

LolaLei wrote...

R2: I'd totally forgotten about her! Well, it was probably her or one of the others who started spreading it around. It's sad to think that it caused him pain be it through unrequited love or embarrassment... I actually think it was remorse that upset him for the way he treated her after the broken circle event (especially if you killed her off lol), otherwise he wouldn't have been so dreamy about her when mentioning her to Hawke if he was ashamed.

Those mages loved to gossip so no doubt that gossip was spread far and wide.  

Agreed about the remorse bit. I also think that there are many different ways to read the dialogue that occurs during Broken Circle. It is easy to cut off certain branches of the dialogue tree and depending on what the fem!mage!warden selects, the nature of the dialogue has very different subtext.

Here's one way that the fem mage can trigger the middle section of the dialogue with Cullen:

F!Mage: Makes you wish you hadn't said those things, doesn't it? 
Cullen: I am beyond caring what you think! The Maker knows my sin, and I pray that he will forgive me. 
F!Mage: Why does it cause you so much pain?
Cullen: You are a mage and I, a templar. It is my duty to oppose you and all you are. …Why have you returned to the tower? How did you survive?
F!Mage:  Is it so surprising that I've returned? This was my home. 
Cullen: As it was mine. And look what they've done to it. They deserve to die! Uldred most of all. Kill Uldred. Kill them all for what they've done. They caged us like animals... looked for ways to break us. I'm the only one left... They turned some into... monsters. And... there was nothing I could do.

To me, this isn't the rantings of an anti-mage "kill them all and let the maker sort them out" zealot. This is someone who:

1. Prior to Uldred's attack, experienced a lot of emotional pain over unrequitted/forbidden love (and he might have been teased about it given how gossipy the tower was).
2. When saying "it is my duty to oppose you," he is talking about how his duty causes him pain, not that he actually opposes her.
3. When the mage warden and Cullen both establish that they think of the tower as "home," Cullen sounds far more like he's trying to convince the warden to take revenge on Uldred and his followers for wrecking their home than he's asking her to Annul the circle. Annuling the circle is a cold, executive decision (or, it is supposed to be). What Cullen is asking in this variation of the dialogue is pure hot-headed revenge-- kill everyone who might even be vaguely involved in destroying our home.



So, I can easily imagine him 3 to 4 years later, thinking about how strong and heroic the mage warden was, and how rediculously helpless and horribly emotional Cullen was.  

Wow! All of this -- brilliant!! 

For all of Cullen's isolation from his Templar brothers and sisters though, they were pretty quick to follow his lead (both in taking his side against Meredith and in bowing to non-mage pro-templar Hawke). He definitely still commanded a lot of respect, even with rumors of his mage crush and resentment about his early promotion.

Of course with mages being raped and maybe even being made Tranquil just so they're easier to rape, rumors about Cullen having feelings for a Ferelden mage could have easily been misconstrued during guy talk behind the Knight Captain's back about all his mage conquests and one particular little tart he was fond of shagging back at his old post. Which... , but you know... c'est la Gallows.

[MissRedZelda]

Poor Cullen :-( He deserves a chance at happiness.

[LolaLei]

Maybe the fact that Hawke was an Amell partly helped him open up (if you played as a mage) because it's like a link to his old life.

Anyway, did anyone else get the impression that the two apprentices in the Circle that would gossip about him were jealous of the attention he would pay our Amell? Especially one of them, to which the other would reply "why do you care so much?" or something to that effect.

[MissRedZelda]

You think that Cullen was popular with the female mages at the Tower? Lol. Cullen, you dog! 

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 13 juin 2012 - 11:47 .

[berelinde]

He was cute. Some people like bashful. I too got the impression that at least one of those gossiping apprentices was jealous. Maybe Cullen gave the Amell Warden special privileges when he could get away with it?

[Dunquixote]

LolaLei wrote...

Maybe the fact that Hawke was an Amell partly helped him open up (if you played as a mage) because it's like a link to his old life.

Anyway, did anyone else get the impression that the two apprentices in the Circle that would gossip about him were jealous of the attention he would pay our Amell? Especially one of them, to which the other would reply "why do you care so much?" or something to that effect.

I did.    She was jealous of Surana too.  I think they're probably also jealous of her talent as a mage.  When I had played a male mage deleting him at level 5 or 6, I do recall the one girl mentioning how the other girl sounded envious of my mage more directly than she does when I play as a female mage.  At the same time, they didn't note anything about how Cullen thought so highly of the young mage's talent and how unsurprising it was that he did.

I don't know if I have ever completed a playthrough as an Amell, but since I've been playing Dragon Age 2 almost nonstop lately, I'm considering it...just so I can see Cullen's dreamy expression on his face.  He's so cute!  I'm hopeful he feels just as affectionate about Surana and that he doesn't mention her only because there is no reason to because obviously Hawke isn't related to her lol.  I am sad though that you only get the part off his codex entry about the rumors about his infatuation if you imported a female Amell and not Surana.

[LolaLei]

Dunquixote: On page 182 (3rd post down) I posted something about how Spike from Buffy and Cullen's story appear to be almost exactly the same etc. Have a read of it and let me know your thoughts. (It's a big post with two seperate questions on it, the second being my Spike/Cullen theory.)

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Maybe the fact that Hawke was an Amell partly helped him open up (if you played as a mage) because it's like a link to his old life.

Anyway, did anyone else get the impression that the two apprentices in the Circle that would gossip about him were jealous of the attention he would pay our Amell? Especially one of them, to which the other would reply "why do you care so much?" or something to that effect.

LOL - good point. I bet you're right. Those ladies were so catty in their comments, it did sound like they had issues - either about Cullen or about the Warden. Probably both. What was it, something like, "Cullen said it was the quickest cleanest Harrowing he'd ever seen." "Well he would, wouldn't he?" Mraaaow...

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

For all of Cullen's isolation from his Templar brothers and sisters though, they were pretty quick to follow his lead (both in taking his side against Meredith and in bowing to non-mage pro-templar Hawke). He definitely still commanded a lot of respect, even with rumors of his mage crush and resentment about his early promotion.

Good point. How human! "even thought we think you're a freak, and a Feraldan, and we make fun of you, when the sh!t hits the fan, you're still the guy we want on our side."

Of course with mages being raped and maybe even being made Tranquil just so they're easier to rape, rumors about Cullen having feelings for a Ferelden mage could have easily been misconstrued during guy talk behind the Knight Captain's back about all his mage conquests and one particular little tart he was fond of shagging back at his old post. Which... , but you know... c'est la Gallows.

Egad. I wouldn't be surprised. People can be so cruel.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Dunquixote: On page 182 (3rd post down) I posted something about how Spike from Buffy and Cullen's story appear to be almost exactly the same etc. Have a read of it and let me know your thoughts. (It's a big post with two seperate questions on it, the second being my Spike/Cullen theory.)

LOL - I second this. Worth a read!

Modifié par R2s Muse, 13 juin 2012 - 02:15 .