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[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

For all of Cullen's isolation from his Templar brothers and sisters though, they were pretty quick to follow his lead (both in taking his side against Meredith and in bowing to non-mage pro-templar Hawke). He definitely still commanded a lot of respect, even with rumors of his mage crush and resentment about his early promotion.

Good point. How human! "even thought we think you're a freak, and a Feraldan, and we make fun of you, when the sh!t hits the fan, you're still the guy we want on our side."

Of course with mages being raped and maybe even being made Tranquil just so they're easier to rape, rumors about Cullen having feelings for a Ferelden mage could have easily been misconstrued during guy talk behind the Knight Captain's back about all his mage conquests and one particular little tart he was fond of shagging back at his old post. Which... , but you know... c'est la Gallows.

Egad. I wouldn't be surprised. People can be so cruel.

Yeah, no doubt they were quick enough to hide behind him the minute **** hit the fan. Although, I dare say he did manage to win over some respect during the course of 10 years in Kirkwall.

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Dunquixote: On page 182 (3rd post down) I posted something about how Spike from Buffy and Cullen's story appear to be almost exactly the same etc. Have a read of it and let me know your thoughts. (It's a big post with two seperate questions on it, the second being my Spike/Cullen theory.)

LOL - I second this. Worth a read!

Despite the similarities, I hope the writers don't actually take Cullen down Spike's path because I would find it very unbelievable.

The Spike and Buffy relationship is plagued with dub-con and probable non-con violent sex, the whole situation is weird in a variety of ways, and nature of the relationship is just sort of ugly, imo.

I know DG+co have talked about putting in more rough, edgy subtext in the romances but, to be honest, if they go that route, I'm not terribly interested.

Personally, found Fenris' anger issues such a massive turn off that I have yet to create a character who will romance him (I have YouTubed the Fenris rivalmance to see what I missed when bluntly turning Fenris down. I know fans found it really satisfying but I found his entire relationship with Hawke completely unbelievable... clearly, it is a YMMV situation).

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Dunquixote: On page 182 (3rd post down) I posted something about how Spike from Buffy and Cullen's story appear to be almost exactly the same etc. Have a read of it and let me know your thoughts. (It's a big post with two seperate questions on it, the second being my Spike/Cullen theory.)

LOL - I second this. Worth a read!

Despite the similarities, I hope the writers don't actually take Cullen down Spike's path because I would find it very unbelievable.

The Spike and Buffy relationship is plagued with dub-con and probable non-con violent sex, the whole situation is weird in a variety of ways, and nature of the relationship is just sort of ugly, imo.

I know DG+co have talked about putting in more rough, edgy subtext in the romances but, to be honest, if they go that route, I'm not terribly interested.

Personally, found Fenris' anger issues such a massive turn off that I have yet to create a character who will romance him (I have YouTubed the Fenris rivalmance to see what I missed when bluntly turning Fenris down. I know fans found it really satisfying but I found his entire relationship with Hawke completely unbelievable... clearly, it is a YMMV situation).

Yeah, I wouldn't want a Cullen/protagonist relationship to follow down the exact same route as Spike/Buffy but I think there should be some angst and "difficulty" just to keep things interesting. I wouldn't want it to be violent or detrimental to either character.

I wonder what they mean by rough/edgy subtext?

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah, I wouldn't want a Cullen/protagonist relationship to follow down the exact same route as Spike/Buffy but I think there should be some angst and "difficulty" just to keep things interesting. I wouldn't want it to be violent or detrimental to either character.

Definitely angst and difficulty, because conflict is what makes a story work. But there are so many different ways that conflict can come about that are (imo) far more interesting than violence, anger, fears of physically hurting the partner, etc.

LolaLei wrote...

I wonder what they mean by rough/edgy subtext?

Sorry, that's me loosely paraphrasing something DG+co said a while back. Cannot remember where else I would point out the exact quote. 

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah, I wouldn't want a Cullen/protagonist relationship to follow down the exact same route as Spike/Buffy but I think there should be some angst and "difficulty" just to keep things interesting. I wouldn't want it to be violent or detrimental to either character.

Definitely angst and difficulty, because conflict is what makes a story work. But there are so many different ways that conflict can come about that are (imo) far more interesting than violence, anger, fears of physically hurting the partner, etc.

LolaLei wrote...

I wonder what they mean by rough/edgy subtext?

Sorry, that's me loosely paraphrasing something DG+co said a while back. Cannot remember where else I would point out the exact quote. 

I just wondered what rough/edgy subtext would mean in regards to a romance... the only things I can think of that would be "edgy" would be to bring in horrible things like murder and violence. :-S

[R2s Muse]

vieralynn wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Dunquixote: On page 182 (3rd post down) I posted something about how Spike from Buffy and Cullen's story appear to be almost exactly the same etc. Have a read of it and let me know your thoughts. (It's a big post with two seperate questions on it, the second being my Spike/Cullen theory.)

LOL - I second this. Worth a read!

Despite the similarities, I hope the writers don't actually take Cullen down Spike's path because I would find it very unbelievable.

The Spike and Buffy relationship is plagued with dub-con and probable non-con violent sex, the whole situation is weird in a variety of ways, and nature of the relationship is just sort of ugly, imo.

I'm afraid I agree. At  least at the  beginning it was very unhealthy and not just because of the love-hate violence aspect. This is why that pairing never worked for me despite how much I liked Spike. A minority opinion, I know. But, as I said earlier, what I do like about it is the redemptive power of his love for Buffy, which ultimately rises above all that.

I know DG+co have talked about putting in more rough, edgy subtext in the romances but, to be honest, if they go that route, I'm not terribly interested.

Personally, found Fenris' anger issues such a massive turn off that I have yet to create a character who will romance him (I have YouTubed the Fenris rivalmance to see what I missed when bluntly turning Fenris down. I know fans found it really satisfying but I found his entire relationship with Hawke completely unbelievable... clearly, it is a YMMV situation).

Personally, I liked the Fenris romance, which I suppose appealed to the fixer in me. But I can see your point and if he were a real person, he's probably someone I would warn my friends not to date.

For Cullen, I really would prefer something less dark. I think he's got issues enough without adding darkness to the relationship itself, like lies, cheating or violence. I think if he were to succumb to love, I'd like to see it add something light and stable to his life.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 14 juin 2012 - 01:01 .

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...
For Cullen, I really would prefer something less dark. I think he's got issues enough without adding darkness to the relationship itself, like lies, cheating or violence. I think if he were to succumb to love, I'd like to see it add something light and stable to his life.

I agree, I think his "angst" should stem from his insecurities and head mess surrounding his beliefs, his torture at the hands of mages, the Kirkwall thing, the fact that he's never had any stability in his life 'n' just when things begin to fall into place for him, the rug gets pulled from under his feet and his lack of experience in social/romantic situations. I'd want his aprehension to stem from being worried that he'd hurt her emotionally because he feels like a jinx because people around him end up getting hurt (also add the whole "I can't date a mage" thing if your character is one.)

Ooooo, just a thought. Do you supposed DG added the whole Mage/Templar relationship thing to Asunder with Evangeline and Rhys to see how the fans react, in order to perhaps introduce one to DA3? Although I do worry that they won't use it for DA3 simply because it's been done now in his novel.

Modifié par LolaLei, 14 juin 2012 - 01:09 .

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...
For Cullen, I really would prefer something less dark. I think he's got issues enough without adding darkness to the relationship itself, like lies, cheating or violence. I think if he were to succumb to love, I'd like to see it add something light and stable to his life.

I agree, I think his "angst" should stem from his insecurities and head mess surrounding his beliefs, his torture at the hands of mages, the Kirkwall thing, the fact that he's never had any stability in his life 'n' just when things begin to fall into place for him, the rug gets pulled from under his feet and his lack of experience in social/romantic situations. I'd want his aprehension to stem from being worried that he'd hurt her emotionally because he feels like a jinx because people around him end up getting hurt (also add the whole "I can't date a mage" thing if your character is one.)

Agree. I like these ideas. Of course, that also has echoes of Anders, so hopefully he won't end up blowing up a mage stronghold or anything.

Ooooo, just a thought. Do you supposed DG added the whole Mage/Templar relationship thing to Asunder with Evangeline and Rhys to see how the fans react, in order to perhaps introduce one to DA3? Although I do worry that they won't use it for DA3 simply because it's been done now in his novel.

LOL You know, when I read it in Asunder, I thought, "Ugh, this again?" I think Amell/Cullen already paved the way there, although granted, we didn't get to see it all come to fruition. So, I don't know. I think it's such an obvious trope, because of the clear conflict, that we'll probably continue to see it in various forms. There are even hints of it in Dawn of the Seeker.

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

I know DG+co have talked about putting in more rough, edgy subtext in the romances but, to be honest, if they go that route, I'm not terribly interested.

Personally, found Fenris' anger issues such a massive turn off that I have yet to create a character who will romance him (I have YouTubed the Fenris rivalmance to see what I missed when bluntly turning Fenris down. I know fans found it really satisfying but I found his entire relationship with Hawke completely unbelievable... clearly, it is a YMMV situation).

Personally, I liked the Fenris romance, which I suppose appealed to the fixer in me. But I can see your point and if he were a real person, he's probably someone I would warn my friends not to date.

For Cullen, I really would prefer something less dark. I think he's got issues enough without adding darkness to the relationship itself, like lies, cheating or violence. I think if he were to succumb to love, I'd like to see it add something light and stable to his life.

Fenris struck the wrong note for me in many ways. It wasn't just his initial anger issues, which happen to be a big turn off for me (admittedly, I know fans who find Angry Alistair and Angry Fenris smokin' hot). It was also how the romance scenes in the rivalmance play out. I actually *love* the concept of rivalry in the way that Jennifer Hepler describes it. Rivalry allows the PC to be better friend to someone by opposing their Big Cause for the right reasons. Of the Hawkes I've played who strongly rival Fenris, I never feel the same sense of dramatic change that I see in a romanced/friended vs rivaled/rivalmanced Anders or Merrill. I wondered if I was missing something by turning down the romance (of course, you do miss things this way) so I youtubed all of the scenes I didn't see in a Fenris rivalmance and it just left me ... sort of with the feeling of saying "bull****" to the writer like it was all magically too easy. I know, I know, bad me. And maybe I would believe it more in a Male/Male relationship, but I sort of didn't buy the gentle/loving side of Fenris juxtaposed with his angry, confused self. It felt too staged, like for TV, rather than like anything that is psychologically real. Alistair, on the other hand, felt far far far far far () more psychologically grounded in reality. Same for Leliana, Zev, Merril, and Anders. 

I'm a very tough critic when it comes to romance subplots of any kind. That's me. It's a "problem" of mine, so to speak.  I find most handling of romance subplots in hollywood movies to set off my bull**** meter. Same for some video games and some TV series. Sadly, Fenris hit the double jackpot for me in the sense that his anger issues just happen to be a personal deal breaker (and that's just me) coupled with me not believing the rivalmance scenes at all. Really, if other people like it, that's great. I'm far too difficult to please.  (which, shhhh, is actually why I'll be slightly relieved if Cullen isn't an LI in DA3 because I don't want to end up sitting through an unbelievable trainwreck that desperately makes me want to script doctor the entire thing and send it back to them.


But, for Cullen as a potential companion/LI, that man has a metric ton of angsty issues to sort through that can easily serve as giant blockers in a romance. While his backstory hasn't been made official or, perhaps, even written, he says a lfew subtle things that make it very plausible for him to have been a Chantry child. Orphan? Given away by poor parents? I mean, he considered Kinloch Hold his home, the other templars (and mages?!) were his friends, and he *really* looked up to Greagoir (this is in the male mage origin). Cullen also appears to think about what the teachings of Andraste mean rather than just blindly killing everything in sight and letting the Maker sort them out. So, if I'm reading his character the same way that the writers conceived him, the Chantry structure is the closest thing to family that Cullen has. If so, it makes sense why he initially feels friendly toward mages. Mages are part of the Chantry's family (whether the mages like it or not) and the Chantry needs to take care of mages. No doubt Cullen would get on fine with the current Divine, Justinia V. So, if the Chantry is Cullen's hometown and the Templar Order his personal home, all of it goes kablooey from 3:37-3:40. It isn't just Meredith going completely paranoid insane, but all of the other hardliner elements (Lord Seeker Lambert) who have decided that they are on a holy mission to RADICALLY CHANGE the Chantry. After all, Meredith goes over Elthina's head -- Meredith is the first we see to refuse what the Chantry has to say. As for Lambert, well, we know what he thinks of the Divine. 

So, when I think of how Alistair struggled with his sense of belonging, his search for family, and what his responsibilities to his family might be, I see Cullen having a similar arc played out on a much grander scale because Order+Chantry+Circle appears to be his home and family, and now they are at each others throats in a way that is horribly dangerous for the whole world. 

Like Alistair not knowing what kingship might require of him or if he even wants it, I can imagine Cullen not knowing what the Chantry and the Order might ask of him and if he would want any of it. I can also imagine him feeling very nervous about his future because he hasn't done anything beyond being in the Chantry's care. Not being able to picture his future, not knowing what side he will be expected to take, and not knowing how to handle his lyrium addiction if the Chantry/Order changes how it controls lyrium are ample reasons for him to say "I don't know how this relationship will ever work because I don't even understand how my once orderly life now works. Things are too chaotic."

Adding in other elements starts running the risk of dramalama eye rolling.

Modifié par vieralynn, 14 juin 2012 - 01:43 .

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...
Ooooo, just a thought. Do you supposed DG added the whole Mage/Templar relationship thing to Asunder with Evangeline and Rhys to see how the fans react, in order to perhaps introduce one to DA3? Although I do worry that they won't use it for DA3 simply because it's been done now in his novel.

LOL You know, when I read it in Asunder, I thought, "Ugh, this again?" I think Amell/Cullen already paved the way there, although granted, we didn't get to see it all come to fruition. So, I don't know. I think it's such an obvious trope, because of the clear conflict, that we'll probably continue to see it in various forms. There are even hints of it in Dawn of the Seeker.

I've always been under the impression that the romance section of a bookstore in Orlais is filled with mage/templar bodice rippers and the action/adventure section has more than a few mage/templar subplots. Again, that's just my speculation about Thedas, but... I think the Mage/Templar trope is firmly established in DA to the point that it is capable of being a joke Anders makes about sexual role playing games. 

I particularly like Wynne's comments about the unnamed templar who is the father of Rhys. Just another man.

Modifié par vieralynn, 14 juin 2012 - 01:48 .

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LOL You know, when I read it in Asunder, I thought, "Ugh, this again?" I think Amell/Cullen already paved the way there, although granted, we didn't get to see it all come to fruition. So, I don't know. I think it's such an obvious trope, because of the clear conflict, that we'll probably continue to see it in various forms. There are even hints of it in Dawn of the Seeker.

This is what makes me think they won't give us Cullen as a love interest, simply because it's becoming over done.

[MissRedZelda]

Have DG and the team given us any clues as to who the protagonist of DA3 will be? I personally hope it'll be an Amell. I get the impression that anyone with Amell blood in the DA universe is special, in a way.

vieralynn wrote...

I've always been under the impression that the romance section of a bookstore in Orlais is filled with mage/templar bodice rippers and the action/adventure section has more than a few mage/templar subplots. Again, that's just my speculation about Thedas, but... I think the Mage/Templar trope is firmly established in DA to the point that it is capable of being a joke Anders makes about sexual role playing games.

Well, it is fantasy counterpart France, after all . . .

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...
Ooooo, just a thought. Do you supposed DG added the whole Mage/Templar relationship thing to Asunder with Evangeline and Rhys to see how the fans react, in order to perhaps introduce one to DA3? Although I do worry that they won't use it for DA3 simply because it's been done now in his novel.

LOL You know, when I read it in Asunder, I thought, "Ugh, this again?" I think Amell/Cullen already paved the way there, although granted, we didn't get to see it all come to fruition. So, I don't know. I think it's such an obvious trope, because of the clear conflict, that we'll probably continue to see it in various forms. There are even hints of it in Dawn of the Seeker.

I've always been under the impression that the romance section of a bookstore in Orlais is filled with mage/templar bodice rippers and the action/adventure section has more than a few mage/templar subplots. Again, that's just my speculation about Thedas, but... I think the Mage/Templar trope is firmly established in DA to the point that it is capable of being a joke Anders makes about sexual role playing games. 

I particularly like Wynne's comments about the unnamed templar who is the father of Rhys. Just another man.

LOL! See, now I'm imaging Cullen sneaking mage/templar themed bodice ripping romance novels out of the Circle library to read between shifts! Someone HAS to do a cartoon strip or picture of that!

[LolaLei]

vieralynn: I can totally see the whole "I don't know how this relationship will ever work because I don't even understand how my once orderly life now works. Things are too chaotic" thing happening.

The thing I can't see happening (sadly enough) is him engaging in a mage/templar romance, even though he was in love with the mage Warden he still didn't go back on his beliefs and pursue her, even when the opportunity was put right infront of him. Since then he's become even more strict in his faith, I really can't think of anyway DG 'n' co could introduce the concept of him romancing one without it seeming tacky.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LOL You know, when I read it in Asunder, I thought, "Ugh, this again?" I think Amell/Cullen already paved the way there, although granted, we didn't get to see it all come to fruition. So, I don't know. I think it's such an obvious trope, because of the clear conflict, that we'll probably continue to see it in various forms. There are even hints of it in Dawn of the Seeker.

This is what makes me think they won't give us Cullen as a love interest, simply because it's becoming over done.

I disagree. Here's why:  DA3 will almost definitely have a seeker or a templar in the party as a companion and assuming DA3 is still about saving the world from itself during the mage-templar war, that seeker or templar will play a major role in the main plot, much like Anders plays a major role in DA2 and Alistair in DAO. Thus, the changes that this major character is also an LI is pretty high.

I really don't think the mage/templar romance is overdone at this point. Most players skipped right past Surana-Amell/Cullen.

[MissRedZelda]

Slightly off topic, but I love this comic:


By carrinth

I especially love Anders in the last panel ;-)

[LolaLei]

MissRedZelda wrote...

Slightly off topic, but I love this comic:


By carrinth

I especially love Anders in the last panel ;-)

LOL! I LOVE THIS!!!

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

LOL! See, now I'm imaging Cullen sneaking mage/templar themed bodice ripping romance novels out of the Circle library to read between shifts! Someone HAS to do a cartoon strip or picture of that!

You know this has happened. 

He also reads lots of action-adventure stories that are full of valorous heroic characters and that just happen to have minor mage/templar romance subplots. *cough*

(Suddenly I am having a horrific image of Cullen's first time with someone and all he knows is what he's read in really trashy novels. :O:O)

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LOL You know, when I read it in Asunder, I thought, "Ugh, this again?" I think Amell/Cullen already paved the way there, although granted, we didn't get to see it all come to fruition. So, I don't know. I think it's such an obvious trope, because of the clear conflict, that we'll probably continue to see it in various forms. There are even hints of it in Dawn of the Seeker.

This is what makes me think they won't give us Cullen as a love interest, simply because it's becoming over done.

I disagree. Here's why:  DA3 will almost definitely have a seeker or a templar in the party as a companion and assuming DA3 is still about saving the world from itself during the mage-templar war, that seeker or templar will play a major role in the main plot, much like Anders plays a major role in DA2 and Alistair in DAO. Thus, the changes that this major character is also an LI is pretty high.

I really don't think the mage/templar romance is overdone at this point. Most players skipped right past Surana-Amell/Cullen.

True, but they may decide to go with a Seeker romance, simply because it's never been done before in-game. I know technically we've never had a Templar romance either, but Alistair was pretty close.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

Slightly off topic, but I love this comic:


By carrinth

I especially love Anders in the last panel ;-)

LOL! I LOVE THIS!!!

*DEAD*    

[MissRedZelda]

vieralynn wrote...

I really don't think the mage/templar romance is overdone at this point. Most players skipped right past Surana-Amell/Cullen.

It probably seems overdone to us because we're fangirl obsessing over it.

I personally think having a Templar in the party would be beneficial. And Cullen seems to be quote popular with the fans. Who's to say he won't play a big part in the last game? If I'm wrong, well... I'm wrong. But I think he will. At the very least, he'll be an important NPC or romancible companion.

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 14 juin 2012 - 02:08 .

[LolaLei]

MissRedZelda wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

I really don't think the mage/templar romance is overdone at this point. Most players skipped right past Surana-Amell/Cullen.

It probably seems overdone to us because we're fangirl obsessing over it.

I personally think having a Templar in the party would be beneficial. And Cullen seems to be quote popular with the fans. Who's to say he won't play a big part in the last game? If I'm wrong, well... I'm wrong. But I think he will. At the very least, he'll be an important NPC or romancible companion.

I'm 99.9% sure he'll be in the game, but I can't decide in what capacity I think he'll be in. I mean, he was a major NPC in the last game so it would seem like a natural progression to have him as a companion/LI in the new one. That being said, it appears that Cullen was added in at the last minute to be Knight-Captain as apparently in the behind the scenes footage for Dawn of the Seeker there's a DA2 scene with the Templars in which there was some old grey haired dude in the place of Cullen.

I also know that originally Sebastian was supposed to be Nathaniel but they changed their minds at the last minute because Nathaniel's fate had too many variables and they thought it would be a bit over kill, what with Anders coming back from the dead as well. So, it's entirely possible that even if Cullen is planned for an LI now, they could change their mind at the last minute and switch him for someone else.

Personally I'd rather see Cassandra as the major NPC in DA3.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn: I can totally see the whole "I don't know how this relationship will ever work because I don't even understand how my once orderly life now works. Things are too chaotic" thing happening.

The thing I can't see happening (sadly enough) is him engaging in a mage/templar romance, even though he was in love with the mage Warden he still didn't go back on his beliefs and pursue her, even when the opportunity was put right infront of him. Since then he's become even more strict in his faith, I really can't think of anyway DG 'n' co could introduce the concept of him romancing one without it seeming tacky.

Hm... Hard to say. I think it can be done without it being tacky.

As for fem!Surana or fem!Amell, there really wasn't anything for Cullen to pursue.

Had he done anything with an apprentice he risks being caught, Surana-Amell being sent to Aeonar, and him being sent to a different circle or chantry. At least, that's my reasoning behind what he runs away during the origin story of the mage propositions him but he is terrifically happy to say and talk if she doesn't.

After Surana-Amell is made into a Warden, she has a life of her own beyond the Circle and Cullen has his life to live. There really isn't anything to pursue, especially if the mage Warden ends up with Alistiar, Zevran, or Leliana. Plus, Cullen has his PTSD issues to deal with and he gets sent off to Kirkwall. It's over.  (unless, of course, someone fanfics a reason for them to be together.)  So, I don't really see it as a faith issue but just a life issue. Life got in the way of Cullen/Surana-Amell ever being together.  Furthermore, depending on the player's choices, Surana-Amell might not even be interested in Cullen.  It's a case of unrequitted, impossible love. I think he was smart enough to see that and, if he did pursue her, it would have been a little stalkerish, to be honest. (Unless she's not in a romance with someone else and she actually wanted Cullen to be interested in her, which really isn't clear in the DA:O script, imo.)

So, since then, Cullen's just been alone and presumably accepting of his status as someone who's alone. If he shows up as an LI, I find it believeable for him to give a relationship a try, be it with a mage, warrior, or rogue. After all, the games in the past haven't yet put up class-based restrictions on who can romance whom.  No matter who he ends up romancing (if anyone at all), he has much bigger problems -- the ones both of us posted above -- and those problem are going to be much bigger roadblocks for him than templar/mage romance issues.

Anyhow, if he is a companion, the Order has fallen apart and the Chantry is toothless. There isn't anyone stopping him from romancing a mage in the same way he might romance a warrior or rogue. At least, that's how I see it.

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn: I can totally see the whole "I don't know how this relationship will ever work because I don't even understand how my once orderly life now works. Things are too chaotic" thing happening.

The thing I can't see happening (sadly enough) is him engaging in a mage/templar romance, even though he was in love with the mage Warden he still didn't go back on his beliefs and pursue her, even when the opportunity was put right infront of him. Since then he's become even more strict in his faith, I really can't think of anyway DG 'n' co could introduce the concept of him romancing one without it seeming tacky.

Hm... Hard to say. I think it can be done without it being tacky.

As for fem!Surana or fem!Amell, there really wasn't anything for Cullen to pursue.

Had he done anything with an apprentice he risks being caught, Surana-Amell being sent to Aeonar, and him being sent to a different circle or chantry. At least, that's my reasoning behind what he runs away during the origin story of the mage propositions him but he is terrifically happy to say and talk if she doesn't.

After Surana-Amell is made into a Warden, she has a life of her own beyond the Circle and Cullen has his life to live. There really isn't anything to pursue, especially if the mage Warden ends up with Alistiar, Zevran, or Leliana. Plus, Cullen has his PTSD issues to deal with and he gets sent off to Kirkwall. It's over.  (unless, of course, someone fanfics a reason for them to be together.)  So, I don't really see it as a faith issue but just a life issue. Life got in the way of Cullen/Surana-Amell ever being together.  Furthermore, depending on the player's choices, Surana-Amell might not even be interested in Cullen.  It's a case of unrequitted, impossible love. I think he was smart enough to see that and, if he did pursue her, it would have been a little stalkerish, to be honest. (Unless she's not in a romance with someone else and she actually wanted Cullen to be interested in her, which really isn't clear in the DA:O script, imo.)

So, since then, Cullen's just been alone and presumably accepting of his status as someone who's alone. If he shows up as an LI, I find it believeable for him to give a relationship a try, be it with a mage, warrior, or rogue. After all, the games in the past haven't yet put up class-based restrictions on who can romance whom.  No matter who he ends up romancing (if anyone at all), he has much bigger problems -- the ones both of us posted above -- and those problem are going to be much bigger roadblocks for him than templar/mage romance issues.

Anyhow, if he is a companion, the Order has fallen apart and the Chantry is toothless. There isn't anyone stopping him from romancing a mage in the same way he might romance a warrior or rogue. At least, that's how I see it.

Well, they seem to be trying out new things with the whole companion romances and stuff, in DA2 they done the whole friendship/rivalry thing. I have this feeling that they might start trying out class based romances, in which say a Templar won't romance a mage or a spirit healer wouldn't date a blood mage etc. Although the whole Mage/Templar forbidden fruit will hopefully be too tempting for DG 'n' co to pass up on the "angst" rating.

[vieralynn]

MissRedZelda wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

I really don't think the mage/templar romance is overdone at this point. Most players skipped right past Surana-Amell/Cullen.

It probably seems overdone to us because we're fangirl obsessing over it.

Exactly!  My first warden was a fem Surana who was *really* nice to Cullen (although she did poke him with the emotional stick a few times during Broken Circle) and who had a very devoted relationship with almost-templar Alistair. My first Hawke was a fem mage who went out of her way to poke Cullen with the "hey, I'm a mage" stick every chance she could get. 

Meanwhile, all of my other DA friends are all MOAR DWARVEN LORE NAO PLEAZ or they're knee deep in Dalish lore. Mage/Templar romances? They shrug, because they haven't seen any and only know about it through hearsay. 

 

MissRedZelda wrote...
I personally think having a Templar in the party would be beneficial. And Cullen seems to be quote popular with the fans. Who's to say he won't play a big part in the last game? If I'm wrong, well... I'm wrong. But I think he will. At the very least, he'll be an important NPC or romancible companion.

I would be very sad if DA3 doesn't include a real Templar in the party.  As far as I'm concerned, those templars have a lot of explaining to do and I want to hear it from the mouth of a real templar. I'm not picky. If Cullen isn't going to fit into the writers' story as a companion, they can create someone else to fill those shoes. I do think Cullen would be perfect and I expect we'll see him, even if he is only an important NPC.   (fingers crossed)