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[LolaLei]

I guess the fact that DG likes Cullen and he has fans within the Dragon Age office gives him a fighting chance. I wonder just how aware DG 'n' co are of just how popular he is with fans etc, he seemed oblivious when he had that interview with a fan.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

The thing I can't see happening (sadly enough) is him engaging in a mage/templar romance, even though he was in love with the mage Warden he still didn't go back on his beliefs and pursue her, even when the opportunity was put right infront of him. Since then he's become even more strict in his faith, I really can't think of anyway DG 'n' co could introduce the concept of him romancing one without it seeming tacky.

I think it could be done without seeming like it's selling out the character. I think the situation with Amell was very different from any kind of mage romance he might experience in DA3. I think if he were in a Circle Tower and responsible for watching over said mage, then a romance would be harder to swallow since it would go against every rule in the Templar book. Plus it would just be Amell 2.0. But, given the state of the Templar Order and the Chantry in DA3, I think the rules in that Templar book will be up in the air.  If he no longer knows exactly where his duty lies, part of his quandary could be the allowability of such a relationship. Also, if he were to become a companion of a mage PC, outside the Tower, then the dynamic would be very different.That could work whether he/she is a Circle mage or even an apostate.

For example, perhaps he doesn't agree with the whole Templar defection from the Chantry, so maybe he's not even officially a Templar anymore. He starts trying to interpret for himself what Andraste originally intended and what that means for what he should do with his life. Heh, heh, [check this out ] he finds out that Andraste was actually a mage and has a fullblown crisis of faith... Then he has to find his way back, yet again, to what he truly believes himself.

Anyway, Andraste's mageyness aside, I think deciding whether or not it's okay to get involved with a mage would make such a relationship very interesting, and that's a different question from Amell, where it was clearly not okay.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

I guess the fact that DG likes Cullen and he has fans within the Dragon Age office gives him a fighting chance. I wonder just how aware DG 'n' co are of just how popular he is with fans etc, he seemed oblivious when he had that interview with a fan.

Um, I think in that recent Jan interview with the UK fans, he's seemed pretty aware of it. Didn't he mention that even some of the writers are fans? I think they were blindsided by it following DA:O.

[vieralynn]

LolaLei: Oh yes! Cassandra as a major NPC would be fantastic. I'd love to see her play a similar role as Cullen did in DA2 -- someone you never fight against but you aren't entirely sure about either. I don't really want Cassandra as a party member because she doesn't feel like enough of a wild card. I get the impression that she just wants to do what the Divine needs done. *shrugs*

I hope they don't do romances based on classes or specialties. That would be too limiting. Some people hate playing certain classes (I dislike playing Warriors) and making people carefully select specialties based on who they romance would be pretty confusing. Also, some people are just *never* going to play certain romances. I like playing all of the romances but, wow, if I had to play a warrior in order to romance character X, I would be annoyed and would probably pass up that romance.

[R2s Muse]

MissRedZelda wrote...

Slightly off topic, but I love this comic:


By carrinth

I especially love Anders in the last panel ;-)

LOL Hilarious!!  So many fun pants jokes from the DA world... 

Also, reminds of how the Orlesian templars apparently get to wear pants... at least according to Dawn of the Seeker. Made me sad...

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Well, they seem to be trying out new things with the whole companion romances and stuff, in DA2 they done the whole friendship/rivalry thing. I have this feeling that they might start trying out class based romances, in which say a Templar won't romance a mage or a spirit healer wouldn't date a blood mage etc. Although the whole Mage/Templar forbidden fruit will hopefully be too tempting for DG 'n' co to pass up on the "angst" rating.

I hope they don't do this, since that would be pretty limiting. Also, honestly, I think something like that runs counter to all the rhetoric about giving the player choices in their romances.  Plus, I bet it would just ****** people off.

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

For example, perhaps he doesn't agree with the whole Templar defection from the Chantry, so maybe he's not even officially a Templar anymore. He starts trying to interpret for himself what Andraste originally intended and what that means for what he should do with his life. Heh, heh, [check this out ] he finds out that Andraste was actually a mage and has a fullblown crisis of faith... Then he has to find his way back, yet again, to what he truly believes himself.

I would love to find out Andraste was a mage in DA3. Perhaps the protagonist 'n' co discover ancient scrolls or something that reveal that Andraste was a powerful mage and Cullen would be like WTF?! And have his little crisis of faith or whatever. Then perhaps towards the end of the game you can decide whether or not to reveal this newly discovered information to the world or keep it quiet, your decision would effect the outcome of the mage/templar war perhaps and thus seal the fate of Cullen's relationship with the protagonist (especially if he/she is a mage.)

Modifié par LolaLei, 14 juin 2012 - 02:56 .

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Well, they seem to be trying out new things with the whole companion romances and stuff, in DA2 they done the whole friendship/rivalry thing. I have this feeling that they might start trying out class based romances, in which say a Templar won't romance a mage or a spirit healer wouldn't date a blood mage etc. Although the whole Mage/Templar forbidden fruit will hopefully be too tempting for DG 'n' co to pass up on the "angst" rating.

I hope they don't do this, since that would be pretty limiting. Also, honestly, I think something like that runs counter to all the rhetoric about giving the player choices in their romances.  Plus, I bet it would just ****** people off.

They might only do it with Cullen, kinda like you could only date Seb if you were female and willing to never have sex again lol.

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

The thing I can't see happening (sadly enough) is him engaging in a mage/templar romance, even though he was in love with the mage Warden he still didn't go back on his beliefs and pursue her, even when the opportunity was put right infront of him. Since then he's become even more strict in his faith, I really can't think of anyway DG 'n' co could introduce the concept of him romancing one without it seeming tacky.

I think it could be done without seeming like it's selling out the character. I think the situation with Amell was very different from any kind of mage romance he might experience in DA3. I think if he were in a Circle Tower and responsible for watching over said mage, then a romance would be harder to swallow since it would go against every rule in the Templar book. Plus it would just be Amell 2.0. But, given the state of the Templar Order and the Chantry in DA3, I think the rules in that Templar book will be up in the air.  If he no longer knows exactly where his duty lies, part of his quandary could be the allowability of such a relationship. Also, if he were to become a companion of a mage PC, outside the Tower, then the dynamic would be very different.That could work whether he/she is a Circle mage or even an apostate.

For example, perhaps he doesn't agree with the whole Templar defection from the Chantry, so maybe he's not even officially a Templar anymore. He starts trying to interpret for himself what Andraste originally intended and what that means for what he should do with his life. Heh, heh, [check this out ] he finds out that Andraste was actually a mage and has a fullblown crisis of faith... Then he has to find his way back, yet again, to what he truly believes himself.

Anyway, Andraste's mageyness aside, I think deciding whether or not it's okay to get involved with a mage would make such a relationship very interesting, and that's a different question from Amell, where it was clearly not okay.

This is where I give Cullen a lot of credit. There's ample subtextual evidence pointing to Cullen knowing that an actual romantic relationship (or good old fashion hot sexy sex) between him and a circle mage would get both of them in far more trouble than the sex/relationship is worth. 

Despite some of Cullen's obliviousness and naivety, he spends time thinking things through rather than dogmatically doing what he is told to do. If he was a dogmatic templar, his situation with Hawke would have been very different in DA2 (and the game would have ended quickly, once Hawke was thrown in the Gallows or severely punished for aiding mages).

After the events in the Gallows during Act 3 in DA2, it isn't clear how much longer Cullen will stay in Kirkwall and how the Order will look at him. I can't imagine Lambert wanting Cullen around…

So, yes, I think Cullen has the right mind set to think for himself once the events in DA2 finish up and having a romance with a mage PC, which is completely outside of the Circle-Chantry system, just isn't the same kind of problem that it was in the past.

Oh, if it is true that Andraste was a mage AND Cullen finds out, I want to see what happens next. That will be the biggest coming-to-jesus moment ever. 

Modifié par vieralynn, 14 juin 2012 - 02:56 .

[R2s Muse]

vieralynn wrote...

I would be very sad if DA3 doesn't include a real Templar in the party.  As far as I'm concerned, those templars have a lot of explaining to do and I want to hear it from the mouth of a real templar. I'm not picky. If Cullen isn't going to fit into the writers' story as a companion, they can create someone else to fill those shoes. I do think Cullen would be perfect and I expect we'll see him, even if he is only an important NPC.   (fingers crossed)

^This. We really need someone to give a reasonable voice to the Templar perspective. But, it would be a kick in the pants if they add a Templar and it's not Cullen.

I would love to see Cassandra, though. I'm starting to fangirl over the Seekers as an Order, and I just want to see more. Plus, the lady is just badass. But, given her flirtiness with a certain supporting character in her movie, I have a hard time imagining her as a romance option for the PC. But, I've heard others say she "friendzoned" him. :shrug:

[vieralynn]

Yet again, it's hit that time of day when I need to go find food and be a responsible person. (heheh, right.)

Here's some Cullen/Surana love (why does everyone always forget about Surana? :C)

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

After the events in the Gallows during Act 3 in DA2, it isn't clear how much longer Cullen will stay in Kirkwall and how the Order will look at him. I can't imagine Lambert wanting Cullen around…

I think it could go either way with Lambert... He could either see Cullen as a great asset or a real threat. Perhaps he might try to get Cullen to join with the rebel Templars, maybe offering him a high ranking position/more money/lyrium/perks etc but I'd like to think Cullen would tell him where to stuff it and head to Orlais to inform the Divine. Maybe from there Lambert would send his Templars after him to kill him or take him in to be tortured into submission or whatever because that would be the perfect reason for Cullen to join the protagonist for protection, safety in numbers 'n' all that jazz.

Modifié par LolaLei, 14 juin 2012 - 03:02 .

[LolaLei]

Is it just me, or does it feel weird seeing fan-art of Cullen with red hair and an older face now that he's had his DA2 makeover with more screen time?

[R2s Muse]

vieralynn wrote...

Despite some of Cullen's obliviousness and naivety, he spends time thinking things through rather than dogmatically doing what he is told to do. If he was a dogmatic templar, his situation with Hawke would have been very different in DA2 (and the game would have ended quickly, once Hawke was thrown in the Gallows or severely punished for aiding mages).

Ah, good points. Agree! More evidence for Cullen the thinker.

So, yes, I think Cullen has the right mind set to think for himself once the events in DA2 finish up and having a romance with a mage PC, which is completely outside of the Circle-Chantry system, just isn't the same kind of problem that it was in the past.

Agree! And, you know, just realized what I said above, that romance could be possible if the PC were a Circle mage or an apostate. But, D'OH, I forgot. No such thing as a Circle mage anymore. Every mage is an apostate in a post-DA2 world. Ah, so much angst for a templar cut adrift. Definitely, all bets will be off as to what the rules say.

Oh, if it is true that Andraste was a mage AND Cullen finds out, I want to see what happens next. That will be the biggest coming-to-jesus moment ever. 

I know. I would LOVE to see that. I'd bring popcorn.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 14 juin 2012 - 03:11 .

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Is it just me, or does it feel weird seeing fan-art of Cullen with red hair and an older face now that he's had his DA2 makeover with more screen time?

Ironically, it's gone the other way for me. I never used to think DA:O Cullen was that attractive, but  now...

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

For example, perhaps he doesn't agree with the whole Templar defection from the Chantry, so maybe he's not even officially a Templar anymore. He starts trying to interpret for himself what Andraste originally intended and what that means for what he should do with his life. Heh, heh, [check this out ] he finds out that Andraste was actually a mage and has a fullblown crisis of faith... Then he has to find his way back, yet again, to what he truly believes himself.

I would love to find out Andraste was a mage in DA3. Perhaps the protagonist 'n' co discover ancient scrolls or something that reveal that Andraste was a powerful mage and Cullen would be like WTF?! And have his little crisis of faith or whatever. Then perhaps towards the end of the game you can decide whether or not to reveal this newly discovered information to the world or keep it quiet, your decision would effect the outcome of the mage/templar war perhaps and thus seal the fate of Cullen's relationship with the protagonist (especially if he/she is a mage.)

Love this scenario. How freakin' cool would that be, if such a revelation changed the whole course of the war??  OH MAN. If it doesn't happen, I might have to write that...

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

For example, perhaps he doesn't agree with the whole Templar defection from the Chantry, so maybe he's not even officially a Templar anymore. He starts trying to interpret for himself what Andraste originally intended and what that means for what he should do with his life. Heh, heh, [check this out ] he finds out that Andraste was actually a mage and has a fullblown crisis of faith... Then he has to find his way back, yet again, to what he truly believes himself.

I would love to find out Andraste was a mage in DA3. Perhaps the protagonist 'n' co discover ancient scrolls or something that reveal that Andraste was a powerful mage and Cullen would be like WTF?! And have his little crisis of faith or whatever. Then perhaps towards the end of the game you can decide whether or not to reveal this newly discovered information to the world or keep it quiet, your decision would effect the outcome of the mage/templar war perhaps and thus seal the fate of Cullen's relationship with the protagonist (especially if he/she is a mage.)

Love this scenario. How freakin' cool would that be, if such a revelation changed the whole course of the war??  OH MAN. If it doesn't happen, I might have to write that...

Y'know, with all the ideas we've come up with in here, we have more than enough to write his entire back story, romance arc, plot heavy companion story and sex scene! At this rate we'll probably be really underwhelmed if none of it happens in DA3!

I guess if it's crap we could always write a community based fanfic LOL!

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

For example, perhaps he doesn't agree with the whole Templar defection from the Chantry, so maybe he's not even officially a Templar anymore. He starts trying to interpret for himself what Andraste originally intended and what that means for what he should do with his life. Heh, heh, [check this out ] he finds out that Andraste was actually a mage and has a fullblown crisis of faith... Then he has to find his way back, yet again, to what he truly believes himself.

I would love to find out Andraste was a mage in DA3. Perhaps the protagonist 'n' co discover ancient scrolls or something that reveal that Andraste was a powerful mage and Cullen would be like WTF?! And have his little crisis of faith or whatever. Then perhaps towards the end of the game you can decide whether or not to reveal this newly discovered information to the world or keep it quiet, your decision would effect the outcome of the mage/templar war perhaps and thus seal the fate of Cullen's relationship with the protagonist (especially if he/she is a mage.)

Love this scenario. How freakin' cool would that be, if such a revelation changed the whole course of the war??  OH MAN. If it doesn't happen, I might have to write that...

Y'know, with all the ideas we've come up with in here, we have more than enough to write his entire back story, romance arc, plot heavy companion story and sex scene! At this rate we'll probably be really underwhelmed if none of it happens in DA3!

I guess if it's crap we could always write a community based fanfic LOL!

Word! *sigh* <_< :waves wand: "Expectations managed."

Nighty night!

[LolaLei]

Night night guys, catch ya later!

[Dunquixote]

LolaLei wrote...

Ok, so I have 2 new questions for you ladies (this is gonna be a big post, so I apologise in advance!)

First question:

The character/companion/protagonists art-style changed drastically from DA:O to DA2 despite them using the same engine to make both. What do you think the artstyle will be like in DA3? Do you think they'll change it to look more realistic (less cartoony?), make it more cartoony? Or keep them looking pretty much the same as they do now but polished up a bit more? Do you think they'll use a new/different engine or stick with the one they've got despite it starting to age.

I'd personally like the character art-style to stay the same as it was in DA2, but improve on a few things like hands/ears/the elves faces etc 'n' generally polish everything up alittle abit, giving us more customisation options on the character creator screen (more hairstyles and colours, more eyebrow/lip/eye choices and general advanced options) etc. I get the feeling that DA3 will probably look very similar to DA2 in many ways (in fact I could have sworn I read somewhere that they wanted to keep the art-style of DA2), which could actually aid them in creating the game slightly quicker since the basis would all ready be there, perhaps saving a few resources in the process that could to be used for other aspects of the game (though I don't know how all that stuff works so I'm probably wrong there lol.) I wouldn't want them to make the characters look more like something from The Witcher 2, Kingdoms of Alamur, Skyrim or Dragons Dogma.

Second question:

Have you ever noticed that Cullen has the same hair as Spike from Buffy? David Gaider has made no secret of the fact that he's an avid Buffy fan, he's even mentioned in the past that Alistair is supposed to be a toss up of Xander and some other random character from Firefly. Anyway, I'm now wondering if perhaps Cullen is purposely being turned into the Spike of Dragon Age world. Here's my theory:

In Buffy we find out quite late in the series that before Spike was a vampire he was an awkward, meek, red headed young man (and wannabe poet), often mocked behind his back for being odd and a bit of a loser, pining after a woman that showed no interest/was out of his league/unrequited love. Cullen in DA:O was the awkward, meek, red headed young Templar who was considered a bit odd and mocked behind his back by the apprentices and was in love with a woman he couldn't have/unrequited love. Spike gets turned into a vampire and despite the intial conflict embraces vampirism with zeal. Cullen has obvious conflict within the Templar Order, but after his torture at the hands of Uldred he embraces the Templar beliefs with zeal. Spike bleaches his hair. Cullen suddenly has a lyirum dye job in DA2. Spike comes to Sunnydale and tries to kill Buffy, at this point he is considered a bad guy. Cullen comes to Kirkwall, still notably troubled by the events of DA:O and come across as a bad guy "Mages aren't like you and I... weapons, bad, blah blah" (not to mention at this point we're unsure of his motives.) Spike's softer side starts shining through and he makes an uneasy alliance with Buffy 'n' co. Cullen's softer side starts shining through and he makes an uneasy alliance with Hawke 'n' co. Spike turns against Drusilla, his Sire and helps Buffy. Cullen turns against Meredith, his superior and helps Hawke. In the entire Buffy series according to creator Joss Whedon Spike is the most "fully developed" of all the characters, just like Cullen is quickly becoming the most developed character in the Dragon Age games.

Now, DG said that there will be "angst" in Cullen's future (which we may well see in future games/novels/comics/etc), just like there was "angst" in Spike's future as he came to terms with the bad things he'd experienced and done over the course of many centuries, adding to the mix that he falls in love with a vampire slayer. If my theory is correct then having Cullen falling in love with the Mage in DA:O already mirrors this but would do so on a larger scale should he be made a love interest in DA3 (especially if the protagonist is a mage.)

Although I don't think it was DG 'n' co's intial intention to have Cullen mirror Spike's developmental plot, I feel like maybe they decided to purposely take this route for the "lol's" because Spike went from being considered a bad guy/weirdo and generally disliked to becoming very popular with fangirls and because they done it once before with Alistair and thought it was fun.

Your thoughts?



Their hairstyles are EXACTLY the same as well, and although Cullen's hair isn't as blonde as Spike's it's still considerably lighter than it was in DA:O when he was a redhead (and it was the same colour red in DA:O that Spike's natural hair colour was supposed to be when he was still just "William" prior to being turned into a vampire in late 18th century London.)

I never watched Buffy and I'm not sure if I ever will.  I will keep this post bookmarked though.  I really like how much thought you put into comparing the two characters.  The way you explain yourself, makes it a very convincing argument.  I'll write more on this post tomorrrow after class and answer the questions you ask in it.  Right now I'm studying since I've been gone all day at my friend's house (after class) and came home and played Dragon Age 2 until now <.< (yup, I'm a procrastinator).  

[MissRedZelda]

0_0 Crimady, they look alike!

[Dunquixote]

 I don't see how they look similar.

[LolaLei]

Dunquixote wrote...

 I don't see how they look similar.

It's more their hair and certain features rather than the whole face, but I think it's supposed to be their storyline that's the most similar, rather than actual physical appearance.

[LolaLei]

The similarities are scary both physically and plot wise. I was never particularly into Buffy either but I noticed their hair was the same and wondered if anything about Spike and Cullen was similar (since I knew DG was a Buffy fan and based Alistair partly on Xander.) As it turns out it seems more similarities than just their hair.

I guess if I am right then I'd hope they would use the whole redemption through doing the right thing, like self sacrifice or doing what it takes to end the templar/mage war peacefully along with the comradery/friendship/love thing. Especially if you choose to romance him, because the way his personal story seems to be developing it appears that he needs something important to him to fight for, which could quite easily be his lover now that his faith in the order has been shaken.

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

The similarities are scary both physically and plot wise. I was never particularly into Buffy either but I noticed their hair was the same and wondered if anything about Spike and Cullen was similar (since I knew DG was a Buffy fan and based Alistair partly on Xander.) As it turns out it seems more similarities than just their hair.

I guess if I am right then I'd hope they would use the whole redemption through doing the right thing, like self sacrifice or doing what it takes to end the templar/mage war peacefully along with the comradery/friendship/love thing. Especially if you choose to romance him, because the way his personal story seems to be developing it appears that he needs something important to him to fight for, which could quite easily be his lover now that his faith in the order has been shaken.

Personally, I think the physical similarities are uncanny, and your blow by blow comparison is similarly uncanny. Frankly, I think it's probably really a coincidence as opposed to intentional, though, despite the clear Buffy influences on DA. There are also many things about Spike that are completely different from Cullen, some we discussed last night. But, some aspects of the character arc could be similar, particularly the redemptive angle.

EDIT: And, I'd forgotten to mention, in that pic, Spike is a frowner, too! LOL

Modifié par R2s Muse, 14 juin 2012 - 02:18 .