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[Galagraphia]

Bekkael wrote...
<snip>

When I played Amell, and Cullen ranted and was so broken and damaged by how the demons tortured him by pretending to be her, it seemed immediately apparent that their relationship/flirtation/love/puppy love, however you choose to see it was pretty well tainted. Also, as I think I mentioned previously, if you play a mage PC, they are the Warden and forever off doing wardeny stuff. How would they ever get together? Furthermore, she's tainted with a ticking death sentence. That's just me though, Amell/Surana writers have found ways to make it work.
<snip>

Actually there's no confirmation that demons used her image to torture Cullen. When he sees Amell/Surana during the Broken Circle, he seems surprised: "How far they must have delved into my thoughts..." Demons can't read your mind well if you know it's a trick and resist (see Morrigan and Flemeth in the Fade), so I always thought Cullen hid his feelings so deep, that they couldn't reach it. But torturing him with a forbidden love seemed cool and tragic, so the concept has found its way into many fics. Including my own, though I'm a bad example, my story quickly became very-very AU when BioWare announced Dragon Age II. 

Re: ask blog. I thing Bali and Jen did a great job with this one. Because you can interpret this as you wish:
1) Cullen still is madly in love with Amell, he wants to marry her and to have babies, but he can't, o the angst!
2) Cullen still thinks Amell was great and sometimes he's dreaming of a life they could have had if she wasn't a mage and he wasn't a templar.
3) Cullen has lovely dreams about a family, but he knows it's better not to think about it too much, because even if it was possible, he would not be able to give his family the life they deserve, because he's a templar, and his top priority will always be the Order.
So for me it's not OOC. You see, I think Cullen is, despite some things he says about mages, a gentleman and a knight, as knightly as a knight can be.  He wouldn't marry a woman just to know that he has a wife somewhere. If he really cared for a woman, he would prefer her to have a husband who can be around and help her, protect her, support her and love her 24/7. He can't do it, because his duty demands him to be a templar 24/7 instead. So he wouldn't try to overcome some difficulties to visit his wife at least once in a week.

Of course, I have an AU fanfic where that's exactly what he does: he marries a woman because she carries his baby (oops), but she refuses to follow him to Kirkwall, and they write letters to each other till the end of act 3. They got married just because he thought it was a right thing to do, and she didn't want other villagers to think she was a ****. They care for each other, but it's not like  Love That Conquers All, they are just pen-friends. And they are quite content with that life, because he still has his job + a family somewhere, and she has a husband and a child and "my man is templar with a huge sword" argument, and other men finally left her alone  And they are not madly in love to miss each other painfully. I think it was the happiest story I ever wrote for Cullen. 

@CGG, I don't see DAO Cullen and DA2 Cullen as two different people too. He changed, and it was in character and well-written. Some people saw him in the Circle and thought that that miserable boy was Cullen, but it wasn't truly him. He was tortured, but he recovered. He has scars though, but it was left up to us to decide how deep they are. And how deep were his feelings for the f!Mage too. I really love BioWare for leaving me some air to breathe.

Edit: I caught a top virus:
http://www.tumblr.co...dafedzdT1r0bs5b

Modifié par Galagraphia, 12 septembre 2011 - 08:24 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Ah, Gal, good point about the "being tormented by images of the mage warden" thing being a a fan concoction. I actually noticed that when replaying the mage origin recently, but promptly forgot about it soon after.

My guess is that the demons have some techniques they know tend to work on Templars: promises of a generic home and family, promises of power and glory, promises of hedonistic pleasure. I'd imagine the first few waves of templars fell to the simplest of these offers and illusions, and from there on, the demons got more and more specific with the remaining templars. They probably tried to dig deeper into their minds as fewer and fewer remained... so my theory is that the images Cullen was subjected to had been sort of slowly honing in on things he actually wanted... to the point where it wouldn't have been implausible for them to get that deep, but it hadn't gotten there quite yet. Like the demons had started to get as close as "rescue and comfort involving a beautiful young lady" but not specific enough to know who he actually most desired.

The funny thing is, years and years ago I wrote a story about a handsome prince trapped in a dungeon, and the witch who had trapped him tormented him with illusions of rescue for years. So when his actual rescuer arrives he's extremely nasty and doesn't actually believe that she's there to rescue him for a very long period of time. "Oh, right, so this is the part where you valiantly defend me from giant spiders, and I'm so grateful that I completely believe that you're sincerely a real person who is here to rescue me. Riiiight." He doesn't begin to seriously suspect that the whole thing might be real until they've been out of the dungeon for several days, at which point he is extremely chagrined... but still very paranoid. 

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 12 septembre 2011 - 07:55 .

[R2s Muse]

As I stated a few pages back, I personally also see Cullen's evolution as a continuum from one game to the next -- so I totally agree. I just get a slightly polarized sense to discussions around him sometimes. His evolution is one of the things I continue to find so interesting about him!

And, I hope I didn't seem to malign in any way, shape or form the ask blog fig. I absolutely love it, and I can see now that the current one can be interpreted in many different ways. I think I chose one interpretation since so many of their toons include that sneaky and hilarious Amell lady. 

In honor of his evolution, here's a before-after (from Gala on old thread...?). Yum.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 12 septembre 2011 - 01:51 .

[rak72]

^ oh god, those teeth

[R2s Muse]

rak72 wrote...

^ oh god, those teeth

lmao, i was thinking the same thing...

[Monica21]

Galagraphia wrote...
Actually there's no confirmation that demons used her image to torture Cullen. When he sees Amell/Surana during the Broken Circle, he seems surprised: "How far they must have delved into my thoughts..." Demons can't read your mind well if you know it's a trick and resist (see Morrigan and Flemeth in the Fade), so I always thought Cullen hid his feelings so deep, that they couldn't reach it. But torturing him with a forbidden love seemed cool and tragic, so the concept has found its way into many fics. Including my own, though I'm a bad example, my story quickly became very-very AU when BioWare announced Dragon Age II. 

Doesn't he say something about "tormenting me with what I can't have"? And then I think your Amell has a chace to respond with something like "Well, this is awkward."

[RagingCyclone]

@Gala-I don't think Cullen hides his feelings that deep. During the mage origins his feelings about the Amell/Surana is the gossip of the tower. Click on several of the npc's and they mention hearing that Cullen is in love with her, so even if the pc isn't aware it's fairly clear the rest of the tower knows it.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Monica21 wrote...

Galagraphia wrote...
Actually there's no confirmation that demons used her image to torture Cullen. When he sees Amell/Surana during the Broken Circle, he seems surprised: "How far they must have delved into my thoughts..." Demons can't read your mind well if you know it's a trick and resist (see Morrigan and Flemeth in the Fade), so I always thought Cullen hid his feelings so deep, that they couldn't reach it. But torturing him with a forbidden love seemed cool and tragic, so the concept has found its way into many fics. Including my own, though I'm a bad example, my story quickly became very-very AU when BioWare announced Dragon Age II. 

Doesn't he say something about "tormenting me with what I can't have"? And then I think your Amell has a chace to respond with something like "Well, this is awkward."

I don't have headphones right now, so I can't do a transcription of the actual scene, but the essence of the dialogue (as I recall it) is "Well crap, NOW I'm screwed, because they've gotten deeper into my psyche than before, if they know about my crush on a Mage." To me this indicates that the visions had been getting more specific and personal, but our mage hadn't actually shown up in them yet. When she appears in real life, he mistakes her for a new illusion... not one that's been tormenting him already.

[Jean]

So is Cullen's hair supposed to be similar to Spike?
I've always wondered what it was supposed to be

I also don't know how progressed Thedas is in the hair care and gel department.

Modifié par Batteries, 12 septembre 2011 - 04:54 .

[Galagraphia]

RagingCyclone wrote...

@Gala-I don't think Cullen hides his feelings that deep. During the mage origins his feelings about the Amell/Surana is the gossip of the tower. Click on several of the npc's and they mention hearing that Cullen is in love with her, so even if the pc isn't aware it's fairly clear the rest of the tower knows it.

Well, demons weren't  there when girls were gossiping about Cullen So they couldn't know. Also what CGG said - when Cullen sees f!Mage he sounds like it's for the first time. He's really surprised that they got her image out of his head. You see, Cullen maybe  cute and shy and blushes every time his favourite girl passes by, but he's not weak. If he was, he wouldn't have been the only who survived Broken Circle. That's why I think demons/blood mages haven't had much success with him. He was exhausted, and they were probably getting deeper and deeper into his memories, but they didn't reach his weak points, obviously, because they didn't break him.

[Monica21]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Galagraphia wrote...
Actually there's no confirmation that demons used her image to torture Cullen. When he sees Amell/Surana during the Broken Circle, he seems surprised: "How far they must have delved into my thoughts..." Demons can't read your mind well if you know it's a trick and resist (see Morrigan and Flemeth in the Fade), so I always thought Cullen hid his feelings so deep, that they couldn't reach it. But torturing him with a forbidden love seemed cool and tragic, so the concept has found its way into many fics. Including my own, though I'm a bad example, my story quickly became very-very AU when BioWare announced Dragon Age II. 

Doesn't he say something about "tormenting me with what I can't have"? And then I think your Amell has a chace to respond with something like "Well, this is awkward."

I don't have headphones right now, so I can't do a transcription of the actual scene, but the essence of the dialogue (as I recall it) is "Well crap, NOW I'm screwed, because they've gotten deeper into my psyche than before, if they know about my crush on a Mage." To me this indicates that the visions had been getting more specific and personal, but our mage hadn't actually shown up in them yet. When she appears in real life, he mistakes her for a new illusion... not one that's been tormenting him already.

Oh, that makes more sense.

[RagingCyclone]

Galagraphia wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

@Gala-I don't think Cullen hides his feelings that deep. During the mage origins his feelings about the Amell/Surana is the gossip of the tower. Click on several of the npc's and they mention hearing that Cullen is in love with her, so even if the pc isn't aware it's fairly clear the rest of the tower knows it.

Well, demons weren't  there when girls were gossiping about Cullen So they couldn't know. Also what CGG said - when Cullen sees f!Mage he sounds like it's for the first time. He's really surprised that they got her image out of his head. You see, Cullen maybe  cute and shy and blushes every time his favourite girl passes by, but he's not weak. If he was, he wouldn't have been the only who survived Broken Circle. That's why I think demons/blood mages haven't had much success with him. He was exhausted, and they were probably getting deeper and deeper into his memories, but they didn't reach his weak points, obviously, because they didn't break him.

Not necesssarily. If the feelings were well know, the demons have a multitude of sources to gather from. Could have been a jealous mage that had a crush on him, but he did not on her. Perhaps there was a reason he was left behind was more than his just being unbreakable. I agree he's not weak, but he is a rookie. Why spare him instead of other Templars more seasoned and experienced if not for some other altruistic reason. His role in DAO was small enough there is a lot of room for conjecture.

[Bekkael]

Galagraphia wrote...
Actually there's no confirmation that demons used her image to torture Cullen. When he sees Amell/Surana during the Broken Circle, he seems surprised: "How far they must have delved into my thoughts..." Demons can't read your mind well if you know it's a trick and resist (see Morrigan and Flemeth in the Fade), so I always thought Cullen hid his feelings so deep, that they couldn't reach it. But torturing him with a forbidden love seemed cool and tragic, so the concept has found its way into many fics. Including my own, though I'm a bad example, my story quickly became very-very AU when BioWare announced Dragon Age II. 

You're correct, of course. It's been a little bit since I played the mage origin, and my head has been all in Mass Effect lately. Thanks for the correction.

You see, I think Cullen is, despite some things he says about mages, a gentleman and a knight, as knightly as a knight can be. 

Aaaand, that's how I see him too. The DA version of a white knight. I even think of King Arthur's knights when I think of Cullen, although I'm not sure which one exactly. Perhaps Galahad, as he is renowned for bravery and purity.

He wouldn't marry a woman just to know that he has a wife somewhere. If he really cared for a woman, he would prefer her to have a husband who can be around and help her, protect her, support her and love her 24/7. He can't do it, because his duty demands him to be a templar 24/7 instead. So he wouldn't try to overcome some difficulties to visit his wife at least once in a week.

I don't know why he wouldn't. Being in a committed relationship or marriage doesn't mean you need to spend every day together. Hell, the little wife has stayed behind while the knight/soldier goes off to fulfill his duty throughout history, always with the possibility that he may never return. Long distance marriages or those with lengthy separations are quite common. I can't see this as a valid reason for why he would balk if he developed feelings for someone.

Of course, I have an AU fanfic where that's exactly what he does: he marries a woman because she carries his baby (oops), but she refuses to follow him to Kirkwall, and they write letters to each other till the end of act 3. They got married just because he thought it was a right thing to do, and she didn't want other villagers to think she was a ****. They care for each other, but it's not like  Love That Conquers All, they are just pen-friends. And they are quite content with that life, because he still has his job + a family somewhere, and she has a husband and a child and "my man is templar with a huge sword" argument, and other men finally left her alone  And they are not madly in love to miss each other painfully. I think it was the happiest story I ever wrote for Cullen.

You wrote a fic where Cullen got someone pregnant? LOL, Gala, I don't feel too bad about what I've done to him in my stories now. How did you set that up? Was he drunk, or just really needed to drown his sorrows in a woman? Curious minds want to know!

(Hope any of this made sense. I'm high as a kite on meds right now, and feeling more than a little loopy. )

[R2s Muse]

Bekkael wrote...

Galagraphia wrote...
You see, I think Cullen is, despite some things he says about mages, a gentleman and a knight, as knightly as a knight can be. 

Aaaand, that's how I see him too. The DA version of a white knight. I even think of King Arthur's knights when I think of Cullen, although I'm not sure which one exactly. Perhaps Galahad, as he is renowned for bravery and purity.
<snip>

I love this notion. Although I'd probably prefer slightly less, um, purity.

Bekkael wrote...

Galagraphia wrote...
He wouldn't marry a woman just to know that he has a wife somewhere. If he really cared for a woman, he would prefer her to have a husband who can be around and help her, protect her, support her and love her 24/7. He can't do it, because his duty demands him to be a templar 24/7 instead. So he wouldn't try to overcome some difficulties to visit his wife at least once in a week.

I don't know why he wouldn't. Being in a committed relationship or marriage doesn't mean you need to spend every day together. Hell, the little wife has stayed behind while the knight/soldier goes off to fulfill his duty throughout history, always with the possibility that he may never return. Long distance marriages or those with lengthy separations are quite common. I can't see this as a valid reason for why he would balk if he developed feelings for someone.

I agree; I would see him trying to make it work as best he can within the rules. So, seeking proper permission, then splitting his time as best he can between family and duty. And, trying to be best at both (so probably burning himself out a little...).  Hopefully with some good family-friendly benefits from the Order. But, I don't see him going to the, er, trouble, as it were, unless he were really in love.

You wrote a fic where Cullen got someone pregnant? LOL, Gala, I don't feel too bad about what I've done to him in my stories now. How did you set that up? Was he drunk, or just really needed to drown his sorrows in a woman? Curious minds want to know!

I'll second that. :innocent:

[Avilia]

Galahad - perfect:

How sweet are looks that ladies bend
On whom their favours fall!
For them I battle till the end,
To save from shame and thrall:
But all my heart is drawn above,
My knees are bow'd in crypt and shrine:
I never felt the kiss of love,
Nor maiden's hand in mine.
More bounteous aspects on me beam,
Me mightier transports move and thrill;
So keep I fair thro' faith and prayer
A virgin heart in work and will.

(Tennyson, Sir Galahad)

Now I've gone all romantic...

[Galagraphia]

 @Bekkael, I simply voiced what I believe Cullen thinks about marriage: “It would be nice to have a real family is I wasn’t a templar, but I am, and it would be unfair to bind a woman to someone who can’t be a good husband.” But I’m not saying it could never happen! As you can see, I have an AU where it happened. And in the most complicated way, when he sees his family only once in a year, when Meredith allows him to visit his wife and a child in Ferelden.

You ask how it happened? Nothing romantic. Just two lonely souls got together in Greenfell. It wasn’t love at first sight, or a great passion, they mostly talked, but got attached to each other, and one day she sort of seduced him. He didn’t think they did something bad too: she wasn’t a mage (at least he thought so), or a templar, they were not in the Circle and it was nice and good for both of them. Cullen also didn’t know he would have to go to Kirkwall. He thought they would never let him guard mages again. And he even proposed her before they knew she was pregnant, but she wasn’t sure about it. Then he was sent to Kirkwall, and few weeks after he arrived she wrote him that oops, baby happened. He proposed her again, in a letter, and this time the accepted it, but refused to go to Kirkwall. Why she refused to leave Ferelden is another story. And the whole thing is about their kid, not about them. I write it when I'm depressed, because little Cullenspawn is cute and she always improves my mood

[Galagraphia]

 P.S. Baby Cullen

[R2s Muse]

Aw, Gala, you're breaking my heart today!

p.s. I love that he has the little mole!

Modifié par R2s Muse, 13 septembre 2011 - 06:11 .

[Bekkael]

That is so precious, Gala! <333

[rak72]

Awww, little Cullen with his curls and freckles, we all love you.

Edit - he kind of looks like R2's poney Cullen

Modifié par rak72, 13 septembre 2011 - 06:54 .

[R2s Muse]

rak72 wrote...
Edit - he kind of looks like R2's poney Cullen

Tee hee, he sorta does. Probably because Avilia, the author of the pony, did such a good job boiling down the essential Cullen, as Gala has done here.

[R2s Muse]

So I have just finished reading one of the most delicious characterizations of Cullen I've ever read, so thought I would share... altho, as a warning, it's terribly, terribly NSFW since it was originally a kmeme prompt. It's a f!Hawke & Cullen pairing, and the characters interactions are wonderful. I think the author has perfected the sexy aggressive Cullen, who is just... wow. It's "Through These Pages" by defira1985, where "Hawke & Cullen fall in love through anonymous letters." I know it's hard for some Cullen authors to read others' stuff, but I think this is a gem. The author also has some other nice Cullen stories, from a different story universe of hers that pair him with Bethany.

@Gala, they would also be nice additions to the fic list on page 1.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 13 septembre 2011 - 07:47 .

[Galagraphia]

@R2, I added her.

[Avilia]

Avilia's dim question of the day:

To show how quick off the mark I am - that moment just before the final boss mess "You'll have to go through me". Does Templar Carver say it if he's there instead Cullen? I've seen it quoted with pics of Carver and now I'm curious.

[phaonica]

Avilia wrote...

Avilia's dim question of the day:

To show how quick off the mark I am - that moment just before the final boss mess "You'll have to go through me". Does Templar Carver say it if he's there instead Cullen? I've seen it quoted with pics of Carver and now I'm curious.

Yes. Templar Carver will deliver that line before Cullen steps forward and says "And me."

At least, he does so in my most recent game. I don't know how friendship/rivalry or whatnot affects the scene.

Modifié par phaonica, 14 septembre 2011 - 09:51 .