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[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

I'm not sure, I've never played a mage Mage all the way through, but I've seen him say it on YouTube. Lemme see if I can find it again.

What did you think of my little scene idea?

Thanks in advance for searching! 

Your scene is adorable beyond belief.   Cullen having a sentimental side feels very in character and it seems to go hand in hand with his underlying compassionate side. 

I picture Cullen as someone who would have become a nice, normal, somewhat sensitive, slightly shy guy, but life in the Chantry squashed his ability to do anything for his own personal needs and then the Uldred incident left him so frightened and damaged that he starts saying very not-nice things, purely as knee-jerk responses to his fears. But, under the Templar armor, there is still someone who is sensitive, sentimental, and compassionate.  

Funny thing: I'm comparing your toy knight idea to Alistair talking about Eamon once buying him a miniature golem doll at the Wonders of Thedas ("Where do you think they get all this stuff? Do you think they, um, have any miniature golem dolls?"). For Alistair, there's always this sense of a lost childhood that was taken away from him because he was raised as a bastard. Your scene idea for Cullen makes me think of a lost innocence (rather than lost childhood) because the Chantry and Uldred's attack took away Cullen's ability to just be nice, normal sort of person he probably would have been.  

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

Oooo here we go, I found his Knight comment with the mage Warden too. I don't know if it was a removed response that was put back in, or added from the other Wardens responses to this one... Anyway, here it is:



*Edit* It sounds as though he wasn't a full Templar knight at that point, maybe the Harrowing he had to do with our Mage Warden was his initation into becoming one?

Oh wow, thanks! Yeah, that must be restored dialogue since it sure wasn't in my game.

You know I think it could be read either way. That when she left the Tower he just just wanted to be a knight and wear shiny armor and save damsels or something, but now he knows better, that his purpose is more than that. :shrug:

edited for actual english... ugh again... not enough sleep this week...

Modifié par R2s Muse, 15 juin 2012 - 01:18 .

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

Oooo here we go, I found his Knight comment with the mage Warden too. I don't know if it was a removed response that was put back in, or added from the other Wardens responses to this one... Anyway, here it is:



*Edit* It sounds as though he wasn't a full Templar knight at that point, maybe the Harrowing he had to do with our Mage Warden was his initation into becoming one?

Thanks!

Ah. That's one of the lines that was restored in the Cullen Romance Mod. The vanilla game does have this.  

Hm... I'm slowly working on my massive analysis of Ser Cullen and, until now, I never thought about the lines that were recorded by removed from the final release for whatever reasons (purposeful decisions by the writers, bugs). Hm. Maybe I should include those too as "not quite canon"?  Seems like I need to install the Cullen Romance Mod. (Why I haven't yet done so remains a mystery to me!)

[LolaLei]

Oh also!!!

When he tells you to kill everyone in the Harrowing chamber your Warden can say "I "would rather spare maleficarum than risk harming an innocent", which is uncannily similar to Cullen's response of "I believe that is what being a Templar is all about" during the conversation with Meredith about the 3 Mages.

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Oooo here we go, I found his Knight comment with the mage Warden too. I don't know if it was a removed response that was put back in, or added from the other Wardens responses to this one... Anyway, here it is:



*Edit* It sounds as though he wasn't a full Templar knight at that point, maybe the Harrowing he had to do with our Mage Warden was his initation into becoming one?

Thanks!

Ah. That's one of the lines that was restored in the Cullen Romance Mod. The vanilla game does have this.  

Hm... I'm slowly working on my massive analysis of Ser Cullen and, until now, I never thought about the lines that were recorded by removed from the final release for whatever reasons (purposeful decisions by the writers, bugs). Hm. Maybe I should include those too as "not quite canon"?  Seems like I need to install the Cullen Romance Mod. (Why I haven't yet done so remains a mystery to me!)

I know you can actually revisit the tower after the Broken Circle quest and he asks you what you're doing back. Perhaps some of those lines were from there. Let me see if I can find that video too.

[R2s Muse]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Oooo here we go, I found his Knight comment with the mage Warden too. I don't know if it was a removed response that was put back in, or added from the other Wardens responses to this one... Anyway, here it is:



*Edit* It sounds as though he wasn't a full Templar knight at that point, maybe the Harrowing he had to do with our Mage Warden was his initation into becoming one?

Thanks!

Ah. That's one of the lines that was restored in the Cullen Romance Mod. The vanilla game does have this.  

Hm... I'm slowly working on my massive analysis of Ser Cullen and, until now, I never thought about the lines that were recorded by removed from the final release for whatever reasons (purposeful decisions by the writers, bugs). Hm. Maybe I should include those too as "not quite canon"?  Seems like I need to install the Cullen Romance Mod. (Why I haven't yet done so remains a mystery to me!)

If you do install, watch for which one you have. The one I was using didn't have that extra dialogue in it, which now bums me out. LOL Man, I don't even know which one I have now...

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Oooo here we go, I found his Knight comment with the mage Warden too. I don't know if it was a removed response that was put back in, or added from the other Wardens responses to this one... Anyway, here it is:



*Edit* It sounds as though he wasn't a full Templar knight at that point, maybe the Harrowing he had to do with our Mage Warden was his initation into becoming one?

Thanks!

Ah. That's one of the lines that was restored in the Cullen Romance Mod. The vanilla game does have this.  

Hm... I'm slowly working on my massive analysis of Ser Cullen and, until now, I never thought about the lines that were recorded by removed from the final release for whatever reasons (purposeful decisions by the writers, bugs). Hm. Maybe I should include those too as "not quite canon"?  Seems like I need to install the Cullen Romance Mod. (Why I haven't yet done so remains a mystery to me!)

I know you can actually revisit the tower after the Broken Circle quest and he asks you what you're doing back. Perhaps some of those lines were from there. Let me see if I can find that video too.

You can try t his one:    I was looking for it myself recently!

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

Funny thing: I'm comparing your toy knight idea to Alistair talking about Eamon once buying him a miniature golem doll at the Wonders of Thedas ("Where do you think they get all this stuff? Do you think they, um, have any miniature golem dolls?"). For Alistair, there's always this sense of a lost childhood that was taken away from him because he was raised as a bastard. Your scene idea for Cullen makes me think of a lost innocence (rather than lost childhood) because the Chantry and Uldred's attack took away Cullen's ability to just be nice, normal sort of person he probably would have been.  

I'd totally forgotten about that! Maybe that's subconciously where I got the idea from? They probably wouldn't mention Cullen having a toy in DA3 for that reasons I guess. Perhaps Alistair's toy was taken away from him at the Chantry too?

But you're right, it would be more of a loss of innocence rather than childhood. I'd presume they'd have the Chantry kids doing chores and mostly learning about Andraste/the Maker through reading and lessons etc. There was probably little to no time for play since I'd imagine "being a kid" wasn't deemed important back then.

Modifié par LolaLei, 15 juin 2012 - 01:32 .

[LolaLei]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Oooo here we go, I found his Knight comment with the mage Warden too. I don't know if it was a removed response that was put back in, or added from the other Wardens responses to this one... Anyway, here it is:



*Edit* It sounds as though he wasn't a full Templar knight at that point, maybe the Harrowing he had to do with our Mage Warden was his initation into becoming one?

Thanks!

Ah. That's one of the lines that was restored in the Cullen Romance Mod. The vanilla game does have this.  

Hm... I'm slowly working on my massive analysis of Ser Cullen and, until now, I never thought about the lines that were recorded by removed from the final release for whatever reasons (purposeful decisions by the writers, bugs). Hm. Maybe I should include those too as "not quite canon"?  Seems like I need to install the Cullen Romance Mod. (Why I haven't yet done so remains a mystery to me!)

I know you can actually revisit the tower after the Broken Circle quest and he asks you what you're doing back. Perhaps some of those lines were from there. Let me see if I can find that video too.

You can try t his one:    I was looking for it myself recently!

Poor Cullen

You can hear his voice soften when he sighs and tells her that she should go, kinda like part of him didn't want her to leave... or that could just be me looking into things too deeply as usual LOL!

[R2s Muse]

R2s Muse wrote...
 If you do install, watch for which one you have. The one I was using didn't have that extra dialogue in it, which now bums me out. LOL Man, I don't even know which one I have now...

Hmm, ok, I take that back now. I seem to have the same one installed... but I also have karma's when I got to that cage scene, so maybe that overrides it. grumble.

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Oooo here we go, I found his Knight comment with the mage Warden too. I don't know if it was a removed response that was put back in, or added from the other Wardens responses to this one... Anyway, here it is:



*Edit* It sounds as though he wasn't a full Templar knight at that point, maybe the Harrowing he had to do with our Mage Warden was his initation into becoming one?

Oh wow, thanks! Yeah, that must be restored dialogue since it sure wasn't in my game.

You know I think it could be read either way. That when she left the Tower he just just wanted to be a knight and wear shiny armor and save damsels or something, but now he knows better, that his purpose is more than that. :shrug:
edited for actual english... ugh again... not enough sleep this week...

After listening to it a few times, it sounds like he wasn't a full Templar knight during the warden's harrowing. Not surprising because Keran wasn't yet a knight in DA2, and in the male mage origin Cullen says things that make it seem like everything he's doing (monitoring harrowings) is very new to him.

Some more thoughts:

He says, "When you knew me, I was an innocent. I wanted to be a knight, but I never really thought about why we were needed. Now, my eyes have been opened. The naiveté I once had is gone forever. But I welcome the change as long as it better helps me serve the Chantry."  

So, I read it like this: before Uldred's attack, Cullen was "innocent" because he merely wanted to receive his knighthood in the Order without understanding why the Templar Order exists in the first place (and, thus, why knighthood matters and what one must understand to be a true templar knight). Now that he "knows better" (where "knows better" == sees how dangerous mages can be), his eyes have been opened to the truth about mages and he welcomes this knowledge because it will make him a better servant of the Chantry.


Interesting. I wonder why the line was cut? If I had to guess, they might have decided that the voice acting for that line didn't flow well into the much more angry "You are a mage and I a templar!" line and thus they cut it. 

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Oooo here we go, I found his Knight comment with the mage Warden too. I don't know if it was a removed response that was put back in, or added from the other Wardens responses to this one... Anyway, here it is:



*Edit* It sounds as though he wasn't a full Templar knight at that point, maybe the Harrowing he had to do with our Mage Warden was his initation into becoming one?

Oh wow, thanks! Yeah, that must be restored dialogue since it sure wasn't in my game.

You know I think it could be read either way. That when she left the Tower he just just wanted to be a knight and wear shiny armor and save damsels or something, but now he knows better, that his purpose is more than that. :shrug:
edited for actual english... ugh again... not enough sleep this week...

After listening to it a few times, it sounds like he wasn't a full Templar knight during the warden's harrowing. Not surprising because Keran wasn't yet a knight in DA2, and in the male mage origin Cullen says things that make it seem like everything he's doing (monitoring harrowings) is very new to him.

Some more thoughts:

He says, "When you knew me, I was an innocent. I wanted to be a knight, but I never really thought about why we were needed. Now, my eyes have been opened. The naiveté I once had is gone forever. But I welcome the change as long as it better helps me serve the Chantry."  

So, I read it like this: before Uldred's attack, Cullen was "innocent" because he merely wanted to receive his knighthood in the Order without understanding why the Templar Order exists in the first place (and, thus, why knighthood matters and what one must understand to be a true templar knight). Now that he "knows better" (where "knows better" == sees how dangerous mages can be), his eyes have been opened to the truth about mages and he welcomes this knowledge because it will make him a better servant of the Chantry.


Interesting. I wonder why the line was cut? If I had to guess, they might have decided that the voice acting for that line didn't flow well into the much more angry "You are a mage and I a templar!" line and thus they cut it. 

Yeah I think it was cut because it didn't flow properly with that scene. They should have just added it to the short scene you get with him after the Broken Circle event.

It makes me wonder if he had joined up with the Templars on a whim, thinking it would be exciting. Perhaps he has some sort of romantic notion of what it would be like to be a Knight? Or maybe he read a lot of adventure books during his time as a young Chantry boy about Knights killing Dragons, saving fair maidens and having wild adventures and decided to embrace his Templar fate?

,,, Well, if he's a companion/LI in DA3, then he'll get to do all those things LOL!

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Oooo here we go, I found his Knight comment with the mage Warden too. I don't know if it was a removed response that was put back in, or added from the other Wardens responses to this one... Anyway, here it is:



*Edit* It sounds as though he wasn't a full Templar knight at that point, maybe the Harrowing he had to do with our Mage Warden was his initation into becoming one?

Thanks!

Ah. That's one of the lines that was restored in the Cullen Romance Mod. The vanilla game does have this.  

Hm... I'm slowly working on my massive analysis of Ser Cullen and, until now, I never thought about the lines that were recorded by removed from the final release for whatever reasons (purposeful decisions by the writers, bugs). Hm. Maybe I should include those too as "not quite canon"?  Seems like I need to install the Cullen Romance Mod. (Why I haven't yet done so remains a mystery to me!)

I know you can actually revisit the tower after the Broken Circle quest and he asks you what you're doing back. Perhaps some of those lines were from there. Let me see if I can find that video too.

You can try t his one:    I was looking for it myself recently!

Yep! Those are his lines *only* when you side with the templars.  

Origins guarentees that you will miss out on lines because there are many cases in which certain lines are only available once and only under certain conditions such as selecting a dialogue option that only appears once or making a major decision (save the circle vs annul the circle). DA2, on the other hand, almost always lets you discover everything that an NPC can say.

As I've gone through the painstaking process of getting Cullen to reveal all of this lines in DA:O, my opinions about him in that game have changed a little bit. Also, now with that hidden knight line, my opinions have changed a little bit more. 

I've always understood how people could have wildly different opinions of Cullen based on whether or not they played the female mage origin, but now I'm starting to see why people who have played the female mage origin also hold wildly different too. 

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Oooo here we go, I found his Knight comment with the mage Warden too. I don't know if it was a removed response that was put back in, or added from the other Wardens responses to this one... Anyway, here it is:



*Edit* It sounds as though he wasn't a full Templar knight at that point, maybe the Harrowing he had to do with our Mage Warden was his initation into becoming one?

Thanks!

Ah. That's one of the lines that was restored in the Cullen Romance Mod. The vanilla game does have this.  

Hm... I'm slowly working on my massive analysis of Ser Cullen and, until now, I never thought about the lines that were recorded by removed from the final release for whatever reasons (purposeful decisions by the writers, bugs). Hm. Maybe I should include those too as "not quite canon"?  Seems like I need to install the Cullen Romance Mod. (Why I haven't yet done so remains a mystery to me!)

I know you can actually revisit the tower after the Broken Circle quest and he asks you what you're doing back. Perhaps some of those lines were from there. Let me see if I can find that video too.

You can try t his one:    I was looking for it myself recently!

Yep! Those are his lines *only* when you side with the templars.  

Origins guarentees that you will miss out on lines because there are many cases in which certain lines are only available once and only under certain conditions such as selecting a dialogue option that only appears once or making a major decision (save the circle vs annul the circle). DA2, on the other hand, almost always lets you discover everything that an NPC can say.

As I've gone through the painstaking process of getting Cullen to reveal all of this lines in DA:O, my opinions about him in that game have changed a little bit. Also, now with that hidden knight line, my opinions have changed a little bit more. 

I've always understood how people could have wildly different opinions of Cullen based on whether or not they played the female mage origin, but now I'm starting to see why people who have played the female mage origin also hold wildly different too. 

Well, with a line like:

"To think, I used to pity the Circle. Now I'd like nothing more than to wipe their taint off the face of Thedas!"

It's understandable how a lot of people got the wrong idea about him.

Modifié par LolaLei, 15 juin 2012 - 01:42 .

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...
 If you do install, watch for which one you have. The one I was using didn't have that extra dialogue in it, which now bums me out. LOL Man, I don't even know which one I have now...

Hmm, ok, I take that back now. I seem to have the same one installed... but I also have karma's when I got to that cage scene, so maybe that overrides it. grumble.

I think Karma's will sometimes override the Cullen romance, depending on which version you have. 

Also, Karma's manages to dig up a few other pieces of potentially unused Cullen dialogue (I think??) during the added  recruitment scene. For my Massive Analysis of Ser Cullen, I've stuck to an unmodded version of the game but now I think I need to dig around with those mods and find all of the cut dialogue. (Hm. My massive analysis will be delayed even longer...)

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

Well, with a line like:

"To think, I used to pity the Circle. Now I'd like nothing more than to wipe their taint off the face of Thedas!"

It's understandable how a lot of people got the wrong idea about him.

I swear that is another restored line because it wasn't in my vanilla game. 

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Well, with a line like:

"To think, I used to pity the Circle. Now I'd like nothing more than to wipe their taint off the face of Thedas!"

It's understandable how a lot of people got the wrong idea about him.

I swear that is another restored line because it wasn't in my vanilla game. 

I don't recall hearing him say that in any of my other playthroughs either, but at that point I wasn't paying much attention since I didn't know who Cullen was (I played the mage-amell origin last.)

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Well, with a line like:

"To think, I used to pity the Circle. Now I'd like nothing more than to wipe their taint off the face of Thedas!"

It's understandable how a lot of people got the wrong idea about him.

I swear that is another restored line because it wasn't in my vanilla game. 

I don't recall hearing him say that in any of my other playthroughs either, but at that point I wasn't paying much attention since I didn't know who Cullen was (I played the mage-amell origin last.)

So far I've pieced together most of the dialogue trees for Cullen in DA:O and I've never seen the "wipe their taint off the face of Thedas" line yet. I still have to finish collecting all of the lines for the male mage warden and then go back to double check my non-mage warden's Broken Circle and post-Broken circle dialogues just to mark which lines trigger for whom (male mage vs. female mage. vs non-mage).

[vieralynn]

LolaLei: My first warden was a female Surana so I've paid very close attention to Cullen right from the start. ;D

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Well, with a line like:

"To think, I used to pity the Circle. Now I'd like nothing more than to wipe their taint off the face of Thedas!"

It's understandable how a lot of people got the wrong idea about him.

I swear that is another restored line because it wasn't in my vanilla game. 

I don't recall hearing him say that in any of my other playthroughs either, but at that point I wasn't paying much attention since I didn't know who Cullen was (I played the mage-amell origin last.)

So far I've pieced together most of the dialogue trees for Cullen in DA:O and I've never seen the "wipe their taint off the face of Thedas" line yet. I still have to finish collecting all of the lines for the male mage warden and then go back to double check my non-mage warden's Broken Circle and post-Broken circle dialogues just to mark which lines trigger for whom (male mage vs. female mage. vs non-mage).

I'd never heard him say it until tonight either, it's a good line! I wonder why they cut it (if they did.)

It's funny, we just keep finding out new stuff about him don't we! At this rate we'll have enough food for thought to last us until DA3!

... Hm, I wonder if there's any cut dialogue for him in DA2? How would we go about checking the audio files for that?

[LolaLei]

Hahaha, Greg Ellis' regular accent cracks me up, it's like a mixture of a Northen and Southern British accent with an ever so slight American twang on certain words (where he's been living in America for so long.)

[vieralynn]

LolaLei wrote...

Hahaha, Greg Ellis' regular accent cracks me up, it's like a mixture of a Northen and Southern British accent with an ever so slight American twang on certain words (where he's been living in America for so long.)

Haha! His mixed accent is cute.  

Awwww. He sings his kids to sleep.   My headcanon for Cullen will always include a private fondness for signing, all thanks to Greg Ellis. 

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Well, with a line like:

"To think, I used to pity the Circle. Now I'd like nothing more than to wipe their taint off the face of Thedas!"

It's understandable how a lot of people got the wrong idea about him.

I swear that is another restored line because it wasn't in my vanilla game. 

I don't recall hearing him say that in any of my other playthroughs either, but at that point I wasn't paying much attention since I didn't know who Cullen was (I played the mage-amell origin last.)

So far I've pieced together most of the dialogue trees for Cullen in DA:O and I've never seen the "wipe their taint off the face of Thedas" line yet. I still have to finish collecting all of the lines for the male mage warden and then go back to double check my non-mage warden's Broken Circle and post-Broken circle dialogues just to mark which lines trigger for whom (male mage vs. female mage. vs non-mage).

I'd never heard him say it until tonight either, it's a good line! I wonder why they cut it (if they did.)

It's funny, we just keep finding out new stuff about him don't we! At this rate we'll have enough food for thought to last us until DA3!

... Hm, I wonder if there's any cut dialogue for him in DA2? How would we go about checking the audio files for that?

So, I just got the wipe the face of Thedas line with my male warrior Warden. Of course, I still have Karma's installed... so there's a chance it 's a cut line. But, if you tell him to be grateful he's alive, he says the same first line as Amell, of course I'm grateful but my friends died... and then he says that line about wiping the face of Thedas. Amell's line was about how I used to think we were being easy on you.

Also, there are cut lines for DA2. For example: I wouldn't be surprised if there are more.

[vieralynn]

".. Hm, I wonder if there's any cut dialogue for him in DA2? How would we go about checking the audio files for that?"

I haven't tried yet, but there are tools for extracting audio and digging around inside the guts of the game. Not sure how difficult it will be. People have successfully extracted audio and posted clips on tumblr, which means that it is possible although I have no idea how much work it was for them to do it.

[LolaLei]

vieralynn wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Hahaha, Greg Ellis' regular accent cracks me up, it's like a mixture of a Northen and Southern British accent with an ever so slight American twang on certain words (where he's been living in America for so long.)

Haha! His mixed accent is cute.  

Awwww. He sings his kids to sleep.   My headcanon for Cullen will always include a private fondness for signing, all thanks to Greg Ellis. 

... (And rapping about his thighs.)