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[MissRedZelda]

Actually, I only see Cullen as my Mage Warsen's first love. Then she moves on to Alistair when she leaves the Tower. Todd, you know that Alistair isn't a Mage hater. He doesn't even really consider himself a Templar.

Cullen, on the other hand, didn't hate Mages at the start of DA:O. And, I honestly think he still doesn't. He's suffering from PTSD, which he will eventually get over. If I was asked to choose who I prefer with my Mage Warden, I would choose Alistair over Cullen any day.

But, I would choose a Mage as my DA3 PC and romance Cullen. It's poetic justice.

[MissRedZelda]

Todd23 wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

. . . . I have a feeling Todd was trying to troll us.

I fell for it :-(

Clever chola.   c]:{
Edit:  I still hold that my theory has some merit.

Boring

That hurts trolls like mself.
revenge:

Hahaha. I heard this song on the radio today. You know you spend too much time on the internet when you hear this song, and you immediately assume the radio station's Rick Rolled you.

EDIT: BTW, what's a "chola"? An American euphamism, I presume?

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 20 juin 2012 - 09:07 .

[vieralynn]

Todd23 wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

. . . . I have a feeling Todd was trying to troll us.

I fell for it :-(

Clever chola.   c]:{
Edit:  I still hold that my theory has some merit.

Boring

That hurts trolls like mself.
revenge:

[berelinde]

Todd23 wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

. . . . I have a feeling Todd was trying to troll us.

I fell for it :-(

Clever chola.   c]:{

I fell for it, too. I regret answering the question respectfullly because it deserves none.

Edit: "
BTW, what's a "chola"? An American euphamism, I presume? " Not that I've heard of. A-hole speak for something insulting, no doubt.

Modifié par berelinde, 20 juin 2012 - 09:28 .

[vieralynn]

berelinde wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

. . . . I have a feeling Todd was trying to troll us.

I fell for it :-(

Clever chola.   c]:{

I fell for it, too. I regret answering the question respectfullly because it deserves none.

Edit: "
BTW, what's a "chola"? An American euphamism, I presume? " Not that I've heard of. A-hole speak for something insulting, no doubt.

No clue what a "chola" is until you suggested it must be an american euphamism. Google turned up cholo (m) / chola (f) as a term that refers to a Mexican-Indian/Mexican-American subculture associated with streetgangs. Presumably a derogatory term unless actual mexican-americans are purposefully using the word to reclaim it with pride. Assuming wikipedia is correct, "cholo" was originally an ethnic slur used by the white spanish who first came to Mexico when they refered to the indigious Mexicans. As for Todd's intent when using the word "chola," it could be completly harmless or a pushing toward a breach of the rules of conduct for social.bioware.com. Ignoring is best.

Don't feed the trolls. :/

Modifié par vieralynn, 20 juin 2012 - 09:50 .

[MissRedZelda]

Ah, I see. I wouldn't know, honestly. I'm a Brit living in New Zealand, after all XD

I still feel like an idiot for grabbing the bait. Hopefully, he's gone on his merry way now and we can get back to discussing our favourite Templar now.

[Todd23]

I'm not using Chola as a derogatory term, I'm Latino (and elf). But I was more using the word as an excuse to show off a text I learned. That of a Mexican: c]:{
ps: Please do feed the Trolls. We hunger.
Edit:  If you don't see the Mexican, keep in mind he's wearing a sumbrero.  And cholo doesn't necessarily mean you're gang affiliated, just that you're hard.

Modifié par Todd23, 20 juin 2012 - 10:04 .

[vieralynn]

@MissRedZelda: I wouldn't worry about it.

As for that certain templar, young Surana & Jowan trolling Cullen?!?!


"Young Cullen Surana and Jowan" by *ArcaneArc

description: "This is what I think happened Cullen's first day on the Job at the tower. Jowan dared Surana to taunt the newest templar. Surana being a bit rebellious did just that. Cullen looks down at her with an unamused gaze, but does nothing. I think Cullen is 17-19ish. Jowan 14-16ish, just before his major growth spurt. And Surana would be 13-15ish."




(I should get off the internet and go pretend that I'm a responsible person.)

Modifié par vieralynn, 20 juin 2012 - 10:20 .

[vieralynn]

(except I need to post one last Cullen image)

[R2s Muse]

*phew* And, back to our regularly scheduled program...

@LolaLei, I like your Chantry idea for sexy time. Sounds beautiful. I sorta see Cullen as an inside kind of guy, but agree with others that at the beginning everything would be so new he'd be down for whatever, so long as it was safe and relatively discreet.

So here's a question. I keep wondering whether I'd want Cullen to have a last name or not. He could already have one, along with a family and family history, but we've just never heard about it for game design reasons. So, he could have extentuating family issues, ala Evangeline in Asunder. Or, he may truly not have a family name due to being a foundling or orphan or somesuch, and so have no notion of his roots. So, in some sense, the Order could be his de facto family.

So, here's the question: Based on what you know of his character, which would you prefer?

Modifié par R2s Muse, 20 juin 2012 - 11:18 .

[berelinde]

Cullen may be his last name. Because if it isn't, I'm going to subconsciously give him the last name of "Skink". It's a Scottish soup made from smoked fish and it's rather tasty, despite the name.

[LolaLei]

Well it gives the lad something to do on slow days I guess. Wasn't the best trolling, didn't rile people up enough.

But anyway, to answer your question I'd want Cullen as a companion/LI because he's not like Alistair. Don't get me wrong I loved Alistair but if we had someone with the same personality in every DA game I'd get bored ****ing quickly and it would feel like they were cheapening Alistair as a character (Anders in Awakening is a prime example of this.) The reason I want Cullen in DA3 is because his personality so far is different to what we've had so far, especially because after DA2 his character could turn out to be any number of things, ranging from Knight in shining armor to down right ****, and that's interesting!

As for him being a religious fanatic, sure, that could happen too, but if he ever was then he'll have some pause for thought in the 3rd game after all the crap that went down at the end of DA2. And that's the beauty of it, his character could take absolutely any path right now and it would work.

So your theory was wrong (in my case anyway), but it definitely has warrant.

[LolaLei]

I'd like it to be his first name. I'm all for shipping him off as either abandoned or orphaned, plus it makes for more dramatic conversations and seems to explain some of Cullen's need for for reassurance and something to believe in. His faith is his protective shelter since he (maybe) didn't get any within the parental unit due to their deaths or whatever.

[R2s Muse]

I'd also like it to be his first name, since it doesn't seem as personal an identity if it's a last name. But I'm increasingly intrigued with the idea of him having a family and what his relationship to them might be. For example, the notion that a household might as derisively abandon a templar recruit to the Chantry as a mage would be interesting. Would being a templar be an honor or an embarassment? Would the family maybe get a sorta of dowry for giving him up?

Modifié par R2s Muse, 20 juin 2012 - 03:00 .

[berelinde]

Alistair and Sebastian both got shipped off to the Chantry because they were inconvenient. So did Elthina, if you read the short story. And it seems that once there, children have a hard time leaving, although it must be possible to do so or Sebastian's rivalry path wouldn't even be possible. There seems to be some distinction made between those that are consigned to the chantry and those that enter of their own accord, since Leliana decides to just up and leave when it suits her.

I would be very surprised to learn that it's possible to consign children to the templars, however. They're warriors (and rogues, according to DA2). I would think that children who displayed no athletic aptitude whatsoever would not be admitted and would remain chantry brothers and sisters.

Historically, the church was a good place to dump superfluous children. Sebastian's experience seems to bear this out. If that's the case, it would be a socially acceptable occupation that removed the child from the succession and absolved the family of the need to support the child. Not sure about the dowry. Sometimes, poor families were given specially minted gold or silver coins as compensation for giving up their child to the medieval church, but other times, especially when the child came from a noble house, the particular branch who took them in would receive a substantial endowment from the family.

[brushyourteeth]

Aw, Cullen needs to be his first name -- simply so no one mistakes him for being part of a family of vampires.

I agree with a lot of you that since Cullen's been holding back the sexy for quite awhile now (maybe forever) and he could morph into a crazy sex beast pretty much anywhere that his LI got the fire going.

But... I also think there's a strong(er?) part of Cullen that has a very strict idea of what's right and what's proper. If he's actually in love with someone I think his perfect idea of how to spend his first night with that person would be pretty rigid and cause him to put a stop to things until they could be done the "right" way. You could get hot and heavy in a closet spying on apostates or in a lowtown tavern that smells like puke but at some point I imagine him saying "Stop. We can't. I can't have you like this. You deserve something better" and even if you insist that you don't care, he'll give a lingering look and promise to finish what he started at another time, a better place.

After that first time there may be no-holds-barred, but I think Cullen sees sex as something kind of sacred (and not even necessarily from a religious standpoint, but just as something special you don't share with everybody) and he's had enough time away from relationships that he's put the idea of his "next time" or "first time" up on a pedestal.

... just the way I imagine things.


@ Lola - not what you were going for, probably, but I could totally see that Chantry scenario actually happening with Sebastian. Especially once he finally decided he actually wanted a traditional marriage - I could see him thinking "you know what? Forget this. The Maker knows what we have and there's no reason to be ashamed of it." - especially since we all know he used to be a bit of a wild child!

I can't handle the idea of public sexy time, personally. Not even in a video game! For me, rather than making things sexier, the idea of being caught makes things impossible. LOL!

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 20 juin 2012 - 03:37 .

[LolaLei]

Ah but that's half the fun right there!

Haha, yeah I could imagine Seb doing it too. Well, you never know, maybe our next home hub will be within the Chantry or Grand Cathedral due to some unforeseen circumstance that could result in sexy times before the Maker LOL!

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

Alistair and Sebastian both got shipped off to the Chantry because they were inconvenient. So did Elthina, if you read the short story. And it seems that once there, children have a hard time leaving, although it must be possible to do so or Sebastian's rivalry path wouldn't even be possible. There seems to be some distinction made between those that are consigned to the chantry and those that enter of their own accord, since Leliana decides to just up and leave when it suits her.

I would be very surprised to learn that it's possible to consign children to the templars, however. They're warriors (and rogues, according to DA2). I would think that children who displayed no athletic aptitude whatsoever would not be admitted and would remain chantry brothers and sisters.

Historically, the church was a good place to dump superfluous children. Sebastian's experience seems to bear this out. If that's the case, it would be a socially acceptable occupation that removed the child from the succession and absolved the family of the need to support the child. Not sure about the dowry. Sometimes, poor families were given specially minted gold or silver coins as compensation for giving up their child to the medieval church, but other times, especially when the child came from a noble house, the particular branch who took them in would receive a substantial endowment from the family.

You know, I hadn't really thought about Alistair in this context. Although, I got the impression that he was intended to be a templar, not just an initiate. But he was probably older (teenager?) at the time. Hmm, I may have to go back and re-read some of that.

Of course, regarding why the Chantry succeeds in "keeping" people consigned there... you remind me that Sebastian's family seemed to pay them a pretty penny, which makes me think Eamon probably did for Alistair, too. In Seb's case, I guess it also was a member of his parents' guard who literally held him there until he "walked in the front door." On the other hand, Leliana I think had claimed sanctuary in some sense, so a different kind of set up. I'd also bet for indigent or abandoned children, the deal would be different.

Also, I didn't know there's a short story about Elthina! Could you please point me to it? I'd love to know more about her backstory. I guess the wiki says her parents died, too. Interesting.

[brushyourteeth]

R2s Muse wrote...

You know, I hadn't really thought about Alistair in this context. Although, I got the impression that he was intended to be a templar, not just an initiate. But he was probably older (teenager?) at the time. Hmm, I may have to go back and re-read some of that.

This is all just totally speculation, but Eamon may have been working together with Duncan or Maric to see that Alistair had some kind of martial training within the Chantry. For anyone who hasn't read it Duncan promised Maric and his babymama that he would look after their child in "The Calling". If I'm right in thinking that child was Alistair, it was always Duncan's intention to have him conscripted into the Wardens when he came of age. For his part, Alistair thinks it was blind luck that caused Duncan to take notice of his talents right before it came time for him to take his vows. I don't think it was luck at all.

Of course if I'm wrong and that baby wasn't Alistair, then we have another Theirin possibly wandering around. Maybe even somewhere in the Chantry.

Of course that could be the cure for our alleged Alistair obsessions - let us romance a look-alike half-brother in DAIII.

[berelinde]

I think the short story was actually about Sebastian. It came out prior to DA2's release and featured Sebastian receiving a note from an admirer asking him to meet outside the chantry. He escaped only to find that it was Elthina offering him a way out. Or maybe I'm confusing that story with another. I hope not, but it's possible. It would be in with the other short stories... I think.

Regarding Alistair as a templar, I'm not sure. I think the objective was to keep him accessible and unmarried, in case he was needed at some later date to take his place in the Therin dynasty. Had he been admitted as a chantry brother, even a lay brother, he would have been prevented from marrying, but he would no longer have been accessible should the legitimate heir die without children. With Sebastian, the family already had the heir and a spare, so there was no need for him to be marriageable.

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

You know, I hadn't really thought about Alistair in this context. Although, I got the impression that he was intended to be a templar, not just an initiate. But he was probably older (teenager?) at the time. Hmm, I may have to go back and re-read some of that.

This is all just totally speculation, but Eamon may have been working together with Duncan or Maric to see that Alistair had some kind of martial training within the Chantry. For anyone who hasn't read it Duncan promised Maric and his babymama that he would look after their child in "The Calling". If I'm right in thinking that child was Alistair, it was always Duncan's intention to have him conscripted into the Wardens when he came of age. For his part, Alistair thinks it was blind luck that caused Duncan to take notice of his talents right before it came time for him to take his vows. I don't think it was luck at all.

You know, interesting point! I'm with you in thinking that said baby was little Alistair, so I wouldn't be surprised if Duncan and Eamon did rig the whole Chantry thing. But... I don't know that I'd universally consider becoming a Grey Warden a stroke of luck, given the whole limited life span, no babies, thing, so I would hope that that wasn't Duncan's plan all along. But, that said, I could imagine Duncan deciding it was his best solution for an unhappy Alistair. But, who knows!

Of course if I'm wrong and that baby wasn't Alistair, then we have another Theirin possibly wandering around. Maybe even somewhere in the Chantry.

Of course that could be the cure for our alleged Alistair obsessions - let us romance a look-alike half-brother in DAIII.

Ooooh, the possibilities!

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

I think the short story was actually about Sebastian. It came out prior to DA2's release and featured Sebastian receiving a note from an admirer asking him to meet outside the chantry. He escaped only to find that it was Elthina offering him a way out. Or maybe I'm confusing that story with another. I hope not, but it's possible. It would be in with the other short stories... I think.

I was wondering if that was it, but didn't find anything about Elthina's background in Seb's story. Seeing the thing in the wiki about her parents dying and being sent to the Chantry, I seem to recall now maybe she talked about it during a convo with Hawke...? Hmm, will have to dig more. If you think of it, let me know!

Regarding Alistair as a templar, I'm not sure. I think the objective was to keep him accessible and unmarried, in case he was needed at some later date to take his place in the Therin dynasty. Had he been admitted as a chantry brother, even a lay brother, he would have been prevented from marrying, but he would no longer have been accessible should the legitimate heir die without children. With Sebastian, the family already had the heir and a spare, so there was no need for him to be marriageable.

Good point about the heirs. So... then that really calls in to question brushyourteeth's idea above, that Duncan's plan would be for him to be a Grey Warden. That sorta mucks up the whole heir thing... erm, in principle, altho I suppose in "reality" he becomes King anyway, despite his fertility issues.

Hmm... I wonder.

So, now, coming back to the more typical non-noble consignee to the Chantry, I guess we still don't really know where baby templars come from. Meaning that the Chantry Hierarchy codex suggests that templars are just those initiates who get military training, which always suggested to me that there were vows involved. Obviously, not the case, given DG's later clarifications and the whole Aveline-Wesley thing, but it makes me wonder how one becomes a templar. If a Chantry orphan were to become at templar, at what age would this happen? How would they be selected? Or, is it a much more stand alone police force that periodically recruits adults, some of whom may have been Chantry wards...?

edit: another thought... I did get the impression that Alistair was on the youngish side. Keran says he's been training for... what, five years? and he's still a recruit and looks pretty young.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 20 juin 2012 - 04:43 .

[berelinde]

If the templars are anything like the medieval orders, boys would begin training around 12 or so. They would become squires once they were mature enough to handle being on the field, somewhere in the 14-16 range. Knighthood could happen anytime after they had reached their full physical and emotional growth, anywhere from 18 onward. Thedas could be very different, though. Keran seemed to be about Carver's age, so that would put him at 19. For him to spend another 10 years as a squire (at a squire's pay rate) would really put a financial burden on his family.

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

If the templars are anything like the medieval orders, boys would begin training around 12 or so. They would become squires once they were mature enough to handle being on the field, somewhere in the 14-16 range. Knighthood could happen anytime after they had reached their full physical and emotional growth, anywhere from 18 onward. Thedas could be very different, though. Keran seemed to be about Carver's age, so that would put him at 19. For him to spend another 10 years as a squire (at a squire's pay rate) would really put a financial burden on his family.

Wow, no kidding. Jeesh, really makes you wonder how single-earner households could get by in Kirkwall.

That timeline sounds pretty reasonable. When Cullen announced that they'd watch Keran for next ten years before he'd become a knight, I thought it was pretty harsh. I had assumed that Cullen had extended Keran's knighthood timeline due to his demony circumstances. But, now I wonder how much longer he would have trained otherwise; hopefully not that long.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 20 juin 2012 - 05:36 .

[LolaLei]

Wouldn't it be weird if it turned out Cullen was another of Marric's sons? (Obviously that would be a bit of a crap storyline) the poor thing would probably have a mental breakdown LOL!