89415 réponses à ce sujet

[meanieweenie]

vieralynn wrote...

If the writers put thought into Cullen's stuttering -- specific rules for when he is likely to stutter and when not -- it seems that sex and death are the triggers. The broken circle quest clearly establishes that the fem mage was the "one thing he wanted that he could never have" -- that he was sexually attracted to her, and the ladies at the Rose are quite directly selling sex. As for the death part, the thought of the male mage becoming an abomination -- something no longer human -- and needing to be killed was enough to cause a small stutter. No doubt the mix of desires for sex and narrowly escaped death left Cullen a completely mess when speaking with the fem mage during the origin.

But these are the only points in the script where he becomes flustered. The rest of the time, speaking with or about women doesn't bother him.

Oh how frequently these two are intertwined! LOL

My opinion, not necessarily asked for I know, is right along these lines. Some people naturally stutter or stammer when nervous. It's a tick. Some people won't look you in the eye. Some people turn beet red. Some people drop things. I hold my thumbs in my fist. Don't know why. It just happens. To me, it seems that as vieralynn said - sex and killing make him nervous. That early in the story, I contribute it to lack of experience on both counts. I can recall at least once when someone I was very attracted to asked me why I was balling up my thumbs all the time. And then there was that killing spree..... never mind.  LOL

[MissRedZelda]

I'm pretty sure Cullen was not a full knight yet, so the thought of actually killing something for the first time was quite daunting to him.

Also, the reason why he doesn't stutter around other women is because he isn't attracted to them - not like he is to F!Amell. He doesn't know them, so being intimate with them isn't a concern. The fact that he stutters slightly when reffering to the Blooming Rose, I would put down to him being raised as a "Gentleman". Alistair mentioned that that was something that Templar's are taught. So, I suppose he didn't feel comfortable with calling them "****s" - which he may have thought of as insulting.

Just my theory. (shrugs)

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 23 juin 2012 - 05:05 .

[vieralynn]

MissRedZelda wrote...

I'm pretty sure Cullen was not a full knight yet, so the thought of actually killing something for the first time was quite daunting to him.

Also, the reason why he doesn't stutter around other women is because he isn't attracted to them - not like he is to F!Amell. He doesn't know them, so being intimate with them isn't a concern. The fact that he stutters slightly when reffering to the Blooming Rose, I would put down to him being raised as a "Gentleman". Alistair mentioned that that was something that Templar's are taught. So, I suppose he didn't feel comfortable with calling them "****s" - which he may have thought of as insulting.

Just my theory. (shrugs)

Agreed, although the dialogue for fem!Amell and fem!Surana (I posted on the last page) implies that he has spoken to Amell-Surana before without stuttering. 

I suspect that he was hugely relieved that Amell-Surana survived their harrowing and that, mixed in with his attraction, caused all of his nervous stuttering. Also, killing someone he was attracted to would have been far more than merely daunting.  

[MissRedZelda]

I suppose so. But it just seems like the most logical reason why he doesn't stutter around other women. It's a nervous tick some people have when they're around someone they don't want to look like a fool around.

[vieralynn]

MissRedZelda wrote...

I suppose so. But it just seems like the most logical reason why he doesn't stutter around other women. It's a nervous tick some people have when they're around someone they don't want to look like a fool around.

Not saying that his attractions isn't adding to the stuttering, only that he normally doesn't stutter when around the fem!mage. Also, he doesn't stutter when speaking to her during the broken circle quest or in the short bits of dialogue after the quest is over.

[MissRedZelda]

He was pretty much mindraped during the events of the Broken Circle. At that point, he begins to see F!Amell more of a Mage then the woman he loved.

But, when DA2 comes around, I think he's calmed down, and begins to realise his feelings for F!Amell when he meets Hawke (and realises that he/she's F!Amell's cousin).

[vieralynn]

MissRedZelda wrote...

He was pretty much mindraped during the events of the Broken Circle. At that point, he begins to see F!Amell more of a Mage then the woman he loved.

But, when DA2 comes around, I think he's calmed down, and begins to realise his feelings for F!Amell when he meets Hawke (and realises that he/she's F!Amell's cousin).

Agreed, but he has some small bits of dialogue after the Broken Circle quest where he sounds rather normal. 

Hard to say what his feelings for fem!Amell (or fem!Surana) are during Acts 1 and 2 of DA2, and the codex entry is purposefully ambiguous: "For some time, a rumor has circulated in the Gallows that Knight-Captain Cullen once fell in love with a young mage from the Circle of Ferelden... This rumor seems to cause Cullen pain, though no one knows if it is the pain of lost, unrequited love, or if Cullen is shamed by having had feelings for a mage, of all things." By Act 2, even though he remembers fem!Amell fondly, he may be more impressed with her heroic qualities and the things she has done. 

My point is that we know so little, grasp onto tiny bits, and a whole lot of fanon gets weaved in.  

(really, I am a terrible, terrible fan because I think far too much like a writer than a fan. )

EDIT:  I think the ambiguity in the codex entry is very purposeful on the writers' part to satisfy a wide range of interpretations of Cullen/fem!Mage.

Modifié par vieralynn, 23 juin 2012 - 06:02 .

[LolaLei]

Agreed, they left it open enough for us to fill in the blanks to suit our version of events.

[MissRedZelda]

Well, hurray for headcannon, then

[R2s Muse]

vieralynn wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Has anybody else ever wondered why Cullen gets so flustered around women? I mean, he can't even talk about them to another man.

I wonder if a revered mother caught him fantasizing about a girl at an awkward moment and lectured him in a way that scarred him for life. "The Maker sees you when you do that. There's no place at his side for those who harbor such thoughts." etc.

Cullen's self-conscious fumbling is extreme even for modern audiences, but Thedas isn't earth. They don't have the hangups that we've got, and they don't seem to regard abstinence as being particularly virtuous. It's more that chantry sisters are the symbolic brides of the Maker, so they're already married. For Cullen to have developed such a profound case of the bashfuls, it must have really been something. Maybe there was some reason he shouldn't have been fantasizing about the person or something.

Actually, I don't think Cullen gets flustered around women in general, but we just get to see two instances where situations fluster him and people run with this as a defining trait (sort of like Alistair and Cheese).

Regarding the female mage in the mage origin story, she has two very interesting dialogue options right after Cullen says, "Oh, um, h-hello. I... uh, am glad to see your Harrowing went smoothly."  Her options are:

1.  I need to go.   
2.  Hello, Cullen.   
3.  Why are you stuttering?    
4.  What do you care?   

The 2nd implies that she already knows him by name and the 3rd implies that he normally does not stutter. Therefore, Cullen and the mage have at least had very brief conversations before her harrowing and stuttering/flustered behavior was not involved.  

This isn't to say that he wasn't awkward around her -- we just don't know -- but the stuttering seems to be a result of something else. And, yes, he stutters his way through the entire conversation with her so it is clearly something big. But what is it?

The *only* other times where we see Cullen stumble on his words are oncein the male mage origin where he says:   "I am Cullen. I was to strike the killing blow if you had… become an abomination.  I am glad you didn’t" and during the Wilmod's camp scene when Cullen has an equally small stutter when talking about the Blooming Rose.

We never see him stutter when talking to other women (Meredith, fem!Hawke, etc.) or when talking about other women (Meredith, Elthina, Aveline, his memories of fem!Amell!Warden).  Admitelly, Mereidth and Elthina might not be the sort of women we would expect to cause feelings that would make him flustered, but he speaks quite normally to fem!Hawke and when speaking to/about Aveline.

If the writers put thought into Cullen's stuttering -- specific rules for when he is likely to stutter and when not -- it seems that sex and death are the triggers. The broken circle quest clearly establishes that the fem mage was the "one thing he wanted that he could never have" -- that he was sexually attracted to her, and the ladies at the Rose are quite directly selling sex. As for the death part, the thought of the male mage becoming an abomination -- something no longer human -- and needing to be killed was enough to cause a small stutter. No doubt the mix of desires for sex and narrowly escaped death left Cullen a completely mess when speaking with the fem mage during the origin.

But these are the only points in the script where he becomes flustered. The rest of the time, speaking with or about women doesn't bother him.

You know, vieralynn, this is very interesting food for thought. I had pretty much swallowed the "cullen stutters around women" idea hook line and sinker, being far from an expert on the whole Amell interaction. From you interpretation above, the stuttering in male and female cases just after the Harrowing could almost just be chalked up to his disquiet with being the one to strike the killing blow. I mean... I suppose I'd feel pretty uncomfortable talking to someone who I might have been responsible for destroying... esp if it were to be my first time in that role. Probably even more so if that person had been my personal crush. Could just be as simple as that.

And the stuttering over the lovely ladies at the Rose could just be discomfort with finding a gentlemanly name for those...er ladies. Like RedZelda mentioned...  It's just an indicator that he's nervous. Full stop.

Heh, you always bring such a new perspective! I love it!

[LolaLei]

I just presumed he gets tongue tied around women he finds attractive, which presumably gets worse depending on how much he likes them, so by the time we met him in DA:O his infatuation with our Mage was full blown thus the high degree of stuttering... Chances are he fully realised the extent of his feelings after realising that she could have died during her harrowing, by his own hand of all things.

I'm wondering if maybe when he was talking about the "ladies" of the blooming rose, he was gonna use a slang/insulting term but corrected himself to remain professional infront of strangers whilst on duty, since Cullen does seem to have a habit of saying what's on his mind without thinking, which could explain the slight pause and stutter. That being said he undoubtly felt uncomfortable discussing it so there was a degree of embarrassment surrounding the topic of sex and those associated with it lol.

[MissRedZelda]

I think he stuttered slightly on the Blooming Rose thing, as I said before, because he thinks of himself as a gentleman, and a chivalrous knight. Alistair said that Templar's are taught to be gentlemen around "pretty ladies". So, he was probably thinking quickly of a word to use instead of ****/slattern/strumpet/ect. I don't think it really has much to do with sex concerning him that makes him stutter and get flustered.

And yes, I agree with the notion that he, like most people on Earth, gets tongue tied around the woman he has strong feelings for (namely F!Amell and F!Surana). Or in the male Mage's case, it's terrified feelings of killing for the first time, since it seems that he's not a complete Templar yet.

[LolaLei]

Yeah with the male Mage it seems to be more "first day on the job" nerves. It seems he was fairly new to the job in terms of actually getting his hands dirty and I don't think there were too many "incidents" in the Circle Tower until the Broken Circle quest.

[LolaLei]

He looks like he's gonna cry in this one, poor bubba. :-(

Modifié par LolaLei, 23 juin 2012 - 10:00 .

[MissRedZelda]

Yikes. Cullen's rivalling Fenris in terms of puppy eyes! 0_0

[R2s Muse]

I thought I'd share this: Anders and Cullen by eisblumen. I'm just struck by how atmospheric it is. The fact that it's so full of anticipation, with Cullen just grabbing his sword. Then there's the whole question of, what the heck are they doing together?? I think either the artist or a friend of hers ships them, which I don't particularly, but anyway, enjoy!



This one is also cool... I guess it's the cover to a (German) fanfic about this pairing.

[meanieweenie]

MissRedZelda wrote...

Yikes. Cullen's rivalling Fenris in terms of puppy eyes! 0_0

True, but at least he doesn't cave in to the incessant whining that Fenris has.

[MissRedZelda]

I like Fenris. :-( He's who I romance with my Hawke.

[meanieweenie]

I always romance him too, but sometimes I just wish he'd stop already. lol He beat Anders' insane ranting.

[berelinde]

LolaLei wrote...

He looks like he's gonna cry in this one, poor bubba. :-(

Either that or "Sweet Andraste, look at the pair on that one!" It's hard to tell. 

[MissRedZelda]

(Pokes head in) Hello...? Anyone...?

So, while I was working today, something occurred to me. If you play as the human male/female Mage, your last name is Amell, which apparently means "Power of the Eagle" in German (which kinda adds to my theory that the Free Marches is fantasy counterpart Germany). And we have Hawke, which means "Hawk" funnily enough.

What do those two names have in common? They're both birds of prey!

So with that, I'm theorising that the DA3 main protagonist will be named "Faucon". Which means "Falcon" in French (since DA3 will most probably me set in Orlais).

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 24 juin 2012 - 05:31 .

[berelinde]

Dunno. The most popular origin was the human noble one, and Cousland is a place name (after a village in Scotland). If you dig back far enough, one of the variants of the name is supposed to be Gaelic for "peace". Personally, I think they choose the protagonist names using a dartboard. /jk

I haven't completely given up on more than one background for the DA3 protagonist. I'd rather not play as an Orlesian. It is said that we will be traveling to Orlais, but it is said that we'll cover a lot more ground than we have in previous games.

[LolaLei]

I figured all the names probably mean something a bit interesting or fantastical lol.

I wonder what our next characters surname will be, or what everyone will refer to him/her as?

[vieralynn]

R2s Muse wrote...

vieralynn wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Has anybody else ever wondered why Cullen gets so flustered around women? I mean, he can't even talk about them to another man.

I wonder if a revered mother caught him fantasizing about a girl at an awkward moment and lectured him in a way that scarred him for life. "The Maker sees you when you do that. There's no place at his side for those who harbor such thoughts." etc.

Cullen's self-conscious fumbling is extreme even for modern audiences, but Thedas isn't earth. They don't have the hangups that we've got, and they don't seem to regard abstinence as being particularly virtuous. It's more that chantry sisters are the symbolic brides of the Maker, so they're already married. For Cullen to have developed such a profound case of the bashfuls, it must have really been something. Maybe there was some reason he shouldn't have been fantasizing about the person or something.

Actually, I don't think Cullen gets flustered around women in general, but we just get to see two instances where situations fluster him and people run with this as a defining trait (sort of like Alistair and Cheese).

Regarding the female mage in the mage origin story, she has two very interesting dialogue options right after Cullen says, "Oh, um, h-hello. I... uh, am glad to see your Harrowing went smoothly."  Her options are:

1.  I need to go.   
2.  Hello, Cullen.   
3.  Why are you stuttering?    
4.  What do you care?   

The 2nd implies that she already knows him by name and the 3rd implies that he normally does not stutter. Therefore, Cullen and the mage have at least had very brief conversations before her harrowing and stuttering/flustered behavior was not involved.  

This isn't to say that he wasn't awkward around her -- we just don't know -- but the stuttering seems to be a result of something else. And, yes, he stutters his way through the entire conversation with her so it is clearly something big. But what is it?

The *only* other times where we see Cullen stumble on his words are oncein the male mage origin where he says:   "I am Cullen. I was to strike the killing blow if you had… become an abomination.  I am glad you didn’t" and during the Wilmod's camp scene when Cullen has an equally small stutter when talking about the Blooming Rose.

We never see him stutter when talking to other women (Meredith, fem!Hawke, etc.) or when talking about other women (Meredith, Elthina, Aveline, his memories of fem!Amell!Warden).  Admitelly, Mereidth and Elthina might not be the sort of women we would expect to cause feelings that would make him flustered, but he speaks quite normally to fem!Hawke and when speaking to/about Aveline.

If the writers put thought into Cullen's stuttering -- specific rules for when he is likely to stutter and when not -- it seems that sex and death are the triggers. The broken circle quest clearly establishes that the fem mage was the "one thing he wanted that he could never have" -- that he was sexually attracted to her, and the ladies at the Rose are quite directly selling sex. As for the death part, the thought of the male mage becoming an abomination -- something no longer human -- and needing to be killed was enough to cause a small stutter. No doubt the mix of desires for sex and narrowly escaped death left Cullen a completely mess when speaking with the fem mage during the origin.

But these are the only points in the script where he becomes flustered. The rest of the time, speaking with or about women doesn't bother him.

You know, vieralynn, this is very interesting food for thought. I had pretty much swallowed the "cullen stutters around women" idea hook line and sinker, being far from an expert on the whole Amell interaction. From you interpretation above, the stuttering in male and female cases just after the Harrowing could almost just be chalked up to his disquiet with being the one to strike the killing blow. I mean... I suppose I'd feel pretty uncomfortable talking to someone who I might have been responsible for destroying... esp if it were to be my first time in that role. Probably even more so if that person had been my personal crush. Could just be as simple as that.

And the stuttering over the lovely ladies at the Rose could just be discomfort with finding a gentlemanly name for those...er ladies. Like RedZelda mentioned...  It's just an indicator that he's nervous. Full stop.

Heh, you always bring such a new perspective! I love it!

Nervous or thinking about something that is deeply troubling. Abominations are troubling and, sweet blood of Andraste(!!), what if his crush turned into an abomination?!?!  :blink:

In the male mage conversation, half of the dialogue is devoted to Cullen wondering what abomination might be and how he would even know if someone turned into an abomination:

Cullen: As I said, I’ve never seen one. But when someone becomes an abomination, something… must happen. But what if it is not obvious? Could abominations be walking among us right now?

He shows signs of being flustered when speaking with the male mage and the male mage has dialogue options to call him out on this: a straight up "What kind of templar is so easily frightened?" or a snarky "You had best be on your guard, then." Either way, Cullen responds with "This is still new to me." He appears to be a true newbie templar during the origin story.

So, adding it all together -- fear of abominations, huge relief that the fem mage passed her harrowing with flying colors, his notable discomfort with the lethal aspects of templar duties, and one gigantic crush -- I'm impressed that Cullen was able to string together reasonably coherent sentences when speaking with the fem!mage. 

[vieralynn]

berelinde wrote...

I haven't completely given up on more than one background for the DA3 protagonist. I'd rather not play as an Orlesian. It is said that we will be traveling to Orlais, but it is said that we'll cover a lot more ground than we have in previous games.

Fingers crossed that there is more than one background.  (I can always hope...)